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My opinion on dd1 v dd2 complaints


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Disclaimer: I have never played dd1 myself but i have watched many videos and have also researched it to where i am comfortable enough to say i know a decent amount about the game.

Recently on several different threads i have noticed people complaining or rather expressing there fellings on how they believe that dd1 is a 10x better game than dd2 will ever be and that it is not nearly as fun.

Firstly dd1 and dd2 have two completely different styles of play to the point where calling them even close to the same i feel would be doing one if not both of them disjustice.

Secondly dd1 is a finshed game and has much more content than dd2 dose as of this momemnt. And in the future dd2 may even surpase dd1's amount of content so saying dd2 is lacking is not fair AND dd2 is still only in alpha.

So i gues what im trying to say is give dd2 som time and im certin trendy will not let us down ;)

Oh wait that PS4 wartabel bug dough.

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It's the same thing as gw1 vs gw2. They are nothing alike, many people prefer gw1 for its build and spec dungeon based gameplay, and others prefer gw2 for it's exploration and combat based gameplay. Despite the complaints of gw2 being different than gw1, gw2 is still one of the highest grossing PC games of all time. 


I wish guild wars (arenanet) would come out with a new game in the style of gw1 as I prefer that style, but most people don't, these days in the mmo industry it's all about the action combat and seamless exploration. Not tab targetting, holy trinity. 

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@gatorboy-96 quote:

Disclaimer: I have never played dd1 myself but i have watched many videos and have also researched it to where i am comfortable enough to say i know a decent amount about the game.

Why am I listening to you then?

That's like saying I can perform Brain Surgery, because I watched alot of videos of people being operated on.

Unless you have played DD1 you wouldn't understand why it's so much better.

Not being limited in what you can do, Nightmare actually being challenging and no grinding when leveling pets and armor to name a few. Maps being superior and well thought out, rather than being so small and basic, relying on crappy resistance changes to keep it fresh.

Even at it's launch before DD1 had anything to do with any DLC it was quite balanced and polished. Then along came the Summoner which pretty much broke the game.

Demon Lord was unique. Insane Ancient Dragon actually felt like an End game boss and was rewarding to defeat.

We are missing challenge mode with unique rewards. I could go on and on.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@gatorboy-96

Disclaimer: I have never played dd1 myself but i have watched many videos and have also researched it to where i am comfortable enough to say i know a decent amount about the game.

Why am I listening to you then?

That's like saying I can perform Brain Surgery, because I watched alot of videos of people being operated on.

Unless you have played DD1 you wouldn't understand why it's so much better.

Not being limited in what you can do, Nightmare actually being challenging and no grinding when leveling pets and armor to name a few. Maps being superior and well thought out, rather than being so small and basic, relying on crappy resistance changes to keep it fresh.

Even at it's launch before DD1 had anything to do with any DLC it was quite balanced and polished. Then along came the Summoner which pretty much broke the game.

Demon Lord was unique. Insane Ancient Dragon actually felt like an End game boss and was rewarding to defeat.

We are missing challenge mode with unique rewards. I could go on and on.

-I have put countless hours into DD1 and loved it for what it was but saying that it was superior and every way and without flaws and is completely better than DD2 is just wrong. 

-The two games are completely different and DD2 isn't designed to be another DD1 game, if it was people would be complaining about that.

-Saying Nightmare was actually a challenge in DD1 and not DD2 dosn't really make sense to me, I've heard lots of people complain about the entrance into nm4 being far too hard. In DD1 with the addition of the summoner with his own separate du nightmare wasn't that bad. -

-Grinding exists in most rpg games and is a part of it (not to say that there can't be too much grinding) but even in DD1 you still would have to grind for the mana to level your pets and armor. 

-Saying maps are "superior" is personal opinion though i do have to agree that I prefer some DD1 maps over DD2 maps, but I also prefer some DD2 maps over some DD1 maps.

-Resistance was in DD1 and there it was 100% resist of whatever element making some attacks useless, but lane resists help make this game more unique from DD1 and set it apart, some people like it some don't.

-There are unique bosses like Demon Lord and Ancient Dragon  in DD1, while I prefer those ones we do have Betsy and Harbinger and the main campaign is not even finished. 

-I also miss challenge mode that provided unique rewards and weapons, incursions is fun, but it can get stale after a while. There are not many unique rewards right now but the game is still being worked on and more should be added later.

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@gatorboy-96 quote:Firstly dd1 and dd2 have two completely different styles of play to the point where calling them even close to the same i feel would be doing one if not both of them disjustice.

Would be interested to hear you elaborate on how the play styles of DD1 and DD2 are "completely different."

Maybe I'm just ignorant, but their play seems WAY more similar than they are different.

Unfortunately it is the very points where they are different that the fun has largely been removed from DD2.

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It is superior though.

Trust me if DD2 didn't have artificial limitations  with the Hero Deck and boring resistances placed on you and was a refined DD1 we would of been lot better off. Ever heard of the phrase no need to fix what was broken?

DD1 worked, it had its flaws of course with hacked gear, loot rolling with negatives, but besides that it was just so addictive. DD2 is fun, but no where as close as addicting. Too much grinding in the game and I'm not talking about loot. Grind pet levels ( boring), grind crappy loot to enhance good loot ( BORING) and none of it's p2w yet we still have it. It makes me bored2play.

Are you kidding me right? you dare compare Nightmare in this game to DD1?

We had 250 Million Ogre Trains in Palantir come at you, unique NM specific enemies such as Sharken, Spiders, Djinn, Goblin Copters. The people who complain about NM4 in DD2 have no idea what a challenge is, but then again this game appeals more to the casual with small basic maps, forced meta. So I shouldn't be surprised.

Maps like Talay Mines didn't hold your hand and NMHC Crystaline Dimension would eat you alive if you had no clue what to build and where. Winter Wonderland was amazing though, just about the right amount of challenge.

However perfection was reached with Aquanos, from the map layout, music and the introduction of Sharken and Seahorse pet. It's my favourite map.

No DD2 map is even close to that good and from what I can see no future map is at that level as well.

They are going for flash over substance atm. New maps and content look fancy, but it's missing the magic of it's predecessor and I know I'm not the only one who agrees with this.

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Well I might as well throw my opinion about the whole dd2 vs dd1 stuff here. I've played dd1 ps3 vanilla first, then dde, then dd1 pc collection version, and finally dd2.

So my first comparison will be the vanilla dd1 vs dd2. In this I feel that dd1 is the superior game but that should be a given as it was a finished released game with none of the f2p or early access junk. The maps where interesting, defenses had variety, weapons felt unique, & the challenges were different & fun. That said I feel dd2 is doing decent for those things as well but you can clearly see the early access rough spots such as incursions feeling kinda meh, weapons feeling generally the same, & lack of harder more complex maps but these are things that can be improved.

Now dd1 collection edition (all dlc) vs dd2. Honestly it could go either way for me but I lean more towards dd2, why? Because the dlc ruined dd1 for me. I say the dlc ruined dd1 for me because it introduced a meta so hard that it's really the only way to play the game without gimping yourself, which is unfortunate. That meta being minion walls on buff beams with aura & traps, simplified the game to the point where there's no real strategy & made what was already there a snooze fest. Now dd2 does have the frost + trap meta but that can actually change due to dd2 being in development, that's the key here dd2 is still in development & can improve. 

In the end I think this whole discussion is silly, comparing a finished product with a sequel that's in alpha, of course the finished one will be the better one, any idiot can tell you that. Should be having this discussion when dd2 is closer to being out of early access.

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@topler quote:In the end I think this whole discussion is silly, comparing a finished product with a sequel that's in alpha, of course the finished one will be the better one, any idiot can tell you that. Should be having this discussion when dd2 is closer to being out of early access.

No. You bring these complaints/issues/comparisons up now when there is still time to change course and improve the game. I actually think that it may be too late and that the horses have left the barn. With each new major update focusing primarily on new maps and costumes while leaving out fixes to major game mechanics I get more and more discouraged. I would have agreed with your point 6 or 9 months ago. Now, not so much. I hope Trendy proves me wrong. I just have not seen very many things to give me hope that DD2 will surpass DD1 ... and I think that is what everyone was expecting/hoping for.

I do give them kudos for working on improving loot ... that at least is one glimmer of hope.

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@Professor_Valconian quote:


@topler quote:In the end I think this whole discussion is silly, comparing a finished product with a sequel that's in alpha, of course the finished one will be the better one, any idiot can tell you that. Should be having this discussion when dd2 is closer to being out of early access.

No. You bring these complaints/issues/comparisons up now when there is still time to change course and improve the game. I actually think that it may be too late and that the horses have left the barn. With each new major update focusing primarily on new maps and costumes while leaving out fixes to major game mechanics I get more and more discouraged. I would have agreed with your point 6 or 9 months ago. Now, not so much. I hope Trendy proves me wrong. I just have not seen very many things to give me hope that DD2 will surpass DD1 ... and I think that is what everyone was expecting/hoping for.

I do give them kudos for working on improving loot ... that at least is one glimmer of hope.

I agree with this for the most part. I don't like to compare a finished product that's been out for a while to one that's still being actively developed, but at the same time, there's reasons for a lot of us to have concerns about a game we all like. 

I'd say the most fun I've had in DD2 was around the patch that they brought out Frosty power and gear was still 800+ item power. Since they went free to play, I've put in so little time into the game, and there hasn't been anything remotely interesting that's changed outside of weather effects, an improved leveling experience, and loot being in a better place than it was. That's about it sadly. End game hasn't really been touched, and they've bounced back and forth trying to balance NM4 it's ridiculous. NM4, in my opinion shouldn't even be the true end game. Onslaught, and Incursion should be the end game and NM4 as another step in progression. (Obviously I mean the NM4 normal game mode, not NM4 onslaught and the such.)

Which leads me to my other point, that there are WAY too many frickin game modes. They could really tone it back and streamline it a bit more. Just my opinion, of course. 

In the end, if you didn't play DD1, you have no grounds on comparing the two together, thus voiding any arguments made. 

I won't deny though, the game has improved in the last year, but IMO the game should have never went free to play yet, it clearly wasn't ready for it, and I believe their priorities are in the wrong place right now, but I'm no game designer, and all i can do is wait and see. I've already got the game and such, so it doesn't bother me to sit back and wait to see how things turn out. I can say right now though, that unless balance changes are made among towers, I have ZERO desire to continue to play frost and trap simulator 2k16. 

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@Professor_Valconian quote:

With each new major update focusing primarily on new maps and costumes while leaving out fixes to major game mechanics I get more and more discouraged. 

This next update will focus primarily on new content because most of our designers and programmers are working on core changes that will begin to arrive in the following update. This year, it's our goal to improve major game mechanics. After this update is out, we'll begin to share the nitty-gritty details of those changes. 

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Alpha: Content

Beta: Optimization


Thought this was well-known? :) Of course, would be epic with balance changes, and its annoying not seeing them all the time, but at the same time, we shouldnt expect them :)

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I understand what you are intending to say, but I think you got a part of the DD1 vs. DD2 discussions wrong.

@gatorboy-96 quote:

Recently on several different threads i have noticed people complaining or rather expressing there fellings on how they believe that dd1 is a 10x better game than dd2 will ever be and that it is not nearly as fun.

Firstly dd1 and dd2 have two completely different styles of play to the point where calling them even close to the same i feel would be doing one if not both of them disjustice.

From what I see there are things at DD2 that are not as much fun as they should be or maybe working not properly - and if people know these things already worked great in DD1, then it is hard to understand why not working anymore in DD2. (a popular example is the hero deck or the server/game list from DD1)


Secondly dd1 is a finshed game and has much more content than dd2 dose as of this momemnt. And in the future dd2 may even surpase dd1's amount of content so saying dd2 is lacking is not fair AND dd2 is still only in alpha.

So i gues what im trying to say is give dd2 som time and im certin trendy will not let us down ;)

Oh wait that PS4 wartabel bug dough.

It is not finished yet, but it is possible to estimate the direction it is going. If I think the direction something is going is not so cool, then I try to report this rather sooner than later.

I think the major part about those DD1 vs. DD2 comparisons are based on good intentions. There is just a lot of passion so moods tend to catch fire from time to time. 

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@gnollmar quote:

Alpha: Content

Beta: Optimization


Thought this was well-known? :) Of course, would be epic with balance changes, and its annoying not seeing them all the time, but at the same time, we shouldnt expect them :)

if it's annoying to not see them all the time, what is it if they're never seen?


:)

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@topler quote:

In the end I think this whole discussion is silly, comparing a finished product with a sequel that's in alpha, of course the finished one will be the better one, any idiot can tell you that. Should be having this discussion when dd2 is closer to being out of early access.

Nightmare mode DD1, the mode most of us spent the bulk of our time in, is still in beta.

The labels, as applied by Trendy, are fairly meaningless.

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@iamisom quote:


@Professor_Valconian quote:

With each new major update focusing primarily on new maps and costumes while leaving out fixes to major game mechanics I get more and more discouraged. 

This next update will focus primarily on new content because most of our designers and programmers are working on core changes that will begin to arrive in the following update. This year, it's our goal to improve major game mechanics. After this update is out, we'll begin to share the nitty-gritty details of those changes. 

So you can finally let us know what's going on with the Hero Deck with out it being super secret business?

I could care less about this new update. Content is always welcomed, but only when you have a solid foundation to build upon and DD2 just isn't there yet.

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