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MushroomCake28

The Poison Dart Tower might be better than what we think

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As we all know, the Poison Dart Tower (PDT for short), with the towering poison passive, can be used as a wall. What makes it stand out (unlike arcane, dummy and walls that are kinda similar) is the fact that his aggro interacts differently with enemies: enemies won't target it until they are in front of it, even range enemies. This presents a lot of advantages:

1) You can stack all your traps in front of the PDT (instead of worrying about range enemies).

2) Frost interacts well with it. It slows enemies coming from far, making them take more damage from the poison. When enemies get to the wall, the PDT also gets buffed by the frost(s).

3) Great for solo. If you want to bring one dps and 3 builders, you can remove SA and get the equivalent of purge (explosive poison).


Of course there is some downsides to it:

1) The max HP on it is quite low if you compare it to other towers, and honestly, it should get buffed. I'm currently at 4.1k DH and with 319% towering (80-80-80-79), which is 1% from max, and I only have 208k HP t1. It should at least get buffed to 260-270k HP t1 when near maxed.

2) It doesn't get the max HP boost by the boost aura. This should also be enable. The PDT has become a wall.

3) The width is smaller than other walls, meaning more leaks or 2 PDT instead of 1 wall (80DU vs 30DU).


Conclusion: It is better on certain maps, maps that present paths that aren't that big (width wise). Also better on solo because of the limiting HD. When playing multiplayer, it is better to use walls because of the huge HP difference and safer for leaks.


Here's an example of how to use the PDT (I'm showing the build phase at the beginning):


*** EDIT: Here's the plan of the map with the build: https://dd2.shadowlauch.de/plan/55

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My question is how it will handle if you're utilizing other towers. The low aggro feels like it would be a problem if the ranged enemies just start shooting the lower health towers instead. 


In the current meta, sure, its not an issue since everyone is using traps anyhow. I'd love to be able to shift my squire to dp/DC instead of dh/dp. Those cannons can hit pretty hard with crit.

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You forgot to mention how ridiculous the damage ramps up too! T1 they can hit 20k DPS, and T5 they can hit 80K DPS.

Having an explosive poison PDT in each non-magical resist lane contributes a lot more to damage than two additional traps would. The trouble with this is that to maximize damage output, you're going to want to have a trap huntress and a PDT huntress, and literally no one walks around as a PDT huntress.

...Except me :P

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@gigazelle quote:

literally no one walks around as a PDT huntress.

...Except me :P

Me too :P



@gigazelle quote:

You forgot to mention how ridiculous the damage ramps up too! T1 they can hit 20k DPS, and T5 they can hit 80K DPS.

Having an explosive poison PDT in each non-magical resist lane contributes a lot more to damage than two additional traps would.

Yes true. It is really powerful.



@Racthoh quote:

My question is how it will handle if you're utilizing other towers. The low aggro feels like it would be a problem if the ranged enemies just start shooting the lower health towers instead. 

Well place them intelligently :P. Don't place towers just behind the PDT. Try to find some spots that are out of range of enemies like I did for frosty in the video. But again, it works better with traps/aura because of the frost.

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@alexstonge25 quote:


Well place them intelligently :P. Don't place towers just behind the PDT. Try to find some spots that are out of range of enemies like I did for frosty in the video. But again, it works better with traps/aura because of the frost.

Well remember that frosties are low aggro as well, so as long as they're not brushing against mobs or in the arc of a melee mob's swing they're not being attacked. If I have to place towers back further to accommodate the low aggro walls then I'm losing precious range capabilities. Not exactly the soundest strategy for ogres since you want as much damage on them as possible before they're whacking a wall. 

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@Racthoh quote:

Well remember that frosties are low aggro as well, so as long as they're not brushing against mobs or in the arc of a melee mob's swing they're not being attacked. If I have to place towers back further to accommodate the low aggro walls then I'm losing precious range capabilities. Not exactly the soundest strategy for ogres since you want as much damage on them as possible before they're whacking a wall. 

I have about 5.2k range on my frost. They can still reach really far even if you place them a bit in the back. They still get where range enemies usually stop. But like I said, range enemies don't stop far from the PDT: all enemies walks until they are in front of them. Meaning if the frost can get what is in front of the PDT, we don't really care about the rest. 

As for ogres, draco + sticknade on my AP huntress and gg.

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I have to agree that PDT are fun to use and can be better for soloing maps due to providing duel utility (acting like a wall and serenity aura). While I have not done too much soloing of the harder maps in nm4 the PDT's made nm4 gates a cakewalk. (Using my apprentice as a dps this was still pretty easy). 

The main drawback I see to this build is that you will want the ability to kill bosses fast when you have multiple ones coming.

 I did the same build with a buddy afterwards and it worked fine for a duo but was slightly more challenging. 

I also did this not realizing I had the wrong gloves on so the PDT's hp was only at 158k, jumping to 190k after i switched gear.

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Great to know that the build works fine for duo. For info, I done it with 207k PDT, and it was quite easy. 150k is also doable as you said. 

As for boss killing, the poison scales great and can contribute greatly for killing the boss. 

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I guess the devs listened to your advice on improving towering poison, I don't have time to go in game and check the difference yet, but this should make PDT more effective for group play while still having the safer generally better options of squire and apprentice walls.

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Yes indeed. We should see more thread like this instead of ranting threads. If you propose ideas, give examples and that it is actually logic and nice, people are going to listen to you and say "well that is a nice idea/build".

Thank you Trendy for your dedicated attention!

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Btw I will soon test the new PDT. I had nearly maxed PDT before the patch and had around 210k HP. I suppose it could have gotten up to 215k maybe 220k.

I will keep you guys updated when I get in the game to give the new value (in about 5-6 hours, when my school will unlock steam :P)

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@alexstonge25 quote:

1) The max HP on it is quite low if you compare it to other towers, and honestly, it should get buffed. I'm currently at 4.1k DH and with 319% towering (80-80-80-79), which is 1% from max, and I only have 208k HP t1. It should at least get buffed to 260-270k HP t1 when near maxed.

2) It doesn't get the max HP boost by the boost aura. This should also be enable. The PDT has become a wall.

You got your wish with #1! Test them out and let us know what you think after the patch.

But we're not jumping on #2 just yet. We'll see how the increase in bonus Defense Health works out!

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As a point of reference my PDT went from around 190k to just over 280k hp. around 4k def hp can't recall what all my passives are one is maxed at 140% others are a bit off from that mark.

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@Fozzie quote:

Monk says where's my wallEmoji_Monk.png


Agreed. It's kinda frustrating that huntress can perform physical defense, magical defense, physical DPS, magical DPS, air lanes, and walls. All we need now are the frost tower passives to appear on blaze balloon so we don't need to worry about the hero deck anymore; just make 4 huntresses!


@alexstonge25 quote:

I have about 5.2k range on my frost. They can still reach really far even if you place them a bit in the back. They still get where range enemies usually stop. But like I said, range enemies don't stop far from the PDT: all enemies walks until they are in front of them. Meaning if the frost can get what is in front of the PDT, we don't really care about the rest. 

As for ogres, draco + sticknade on my AP huntress and gg.

The frost towers won't have an issue, that's not what I'm trying to get at. I don't want my hero deck to consist of three huntresses; one for traps, one for poison dart tower, and another as DPS. I'm curious about dedicating my huntress as the waller then outfitting my squire in DP/DC gear for the purposes of cannons. Right now, my cannons are severely lacking compared to flamethrowers since I've gone DH/DP to cover magic lanes and walls; without physical DPS to back them, they're not cutting it on NM4. I have to dedicate the bulk of mana to upgrading cannons to compensate. 

I'm hesitant to switch to poison dart tower walls if the cannons are drawing all the aggro, and if placing them further back is the solution, then I'm effectively not gaining any DPS since the cannons have less time to attack before they're at the walls anyway. I'm hoping I can. 


@Trendy Brett quote:
@alexstonge25 quote:

1) The max HP on it is quite low if you compare it to other towers, and honestly, it should get buffed. I'm currently at 4.1k DH and with 319% towering (80-80-80-79), which is 1% from max, and I only have 208k HP t1. It should at least get buffed to 260-270k HP t1 when near maxed.

2) It doesn't get the max HP boost by the boost aura. This should also be enable. The PDT has become a wall.

You got your wish with #1! Test them out and let us know what you think after the patch.

But we're not jumping on #2 just yet. We'll see how the increase in bonus Defense Health works out!

I appreciate the diversity in builds, but it's sad that making the huntress into a waller took priority over heavy cannonball not being a joke. Make it bounce, do more AoE, shoot faster, something.

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I love my huntress don't get me wrong here; but I like balance too... and she's becoming unbalanced.

Not to sound like a party killer here... but I think Trendy is making the Hunter class OP.  Looking at some other areas/treads, physical traps pretty strong... now PDT strong damage AND high health to act as a wall, and Ballons... according to other threads is very strong (OP according to thread).  Finally with the right gear DPS is again very strong.  You could have 4 slots in the HD and all be filled with a huntress and farm for all them.  That's awesome... and I sorta like it... but...

What's her weakness?

Monk = no walls and only magical damage

Apprentice = Magical damage only

Squire = only physical damage

The huntress with these current changes is becoming OP because she has no real weakness.

Just my opinion, I don't want her nerfed, I want to see other classes buff to the same respect.

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@jason4570 quote:

The huntress with these current changes is becoming OP because she has no real weakness.

As for walling, there are some issues that would make squire's walls better as I mentioned before. Other walls are wider, and with the current leak issues, you never know when a kobold might just don't give a f*** and go directly for the core. Also, placing 2 PDT to be safe in some lanes has a lot of disadvantages:

1) High DU cost (80DU) 

2) Poison isn't doubled (just makes the stacking faster from what I heard from [[31834,users]] )

3) Harder to repair 2 walls.


But yes your point is still valid. I won't say she is OP. Let me rephrase it: "The huntress is more complete than other heros."

All of the huntress' defenses are great to use and all, except those OP traps, have a build.

I would say Monk needs some work: LA are great (try the crit build before saying the opposite), no need to talk about the SA. However, LSA needs some rework (crit scaling is terrible), Skyguard is kinda ok, but still waiting for a build (plz, something like mortar :))) ), and boost aura is in a terrible position atm.

As for apprentice, except flamethrowers and frost, the other towers just need some buff and builds, especially that earth tower (plz give him some love).

Actually, the squire isn't that bad atm. Cannons are great (high single target DPS), ballista needs a buff on splody, but making spody 150-200% would actually make the ballista viable for a waller/ballista squire. Dummy is a lot better than before. No need to talk about walls. Only problem is the Heavy Cannonball tower lol.

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I like the pdt's since they came out, having 309k hp t1 at the moment :), they have hybrid damage magic & phys + aoe & are fun to use as walls :D! people are just too afraid to use it and just go back to old walls if it even fails 1 time.

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I really think that the biggest issue with PDTs as walls is how thin they are. You need 2 of them where 1 would do the job for Blockades, and they're more expensive DU wise to boot. That REALLY hurts. If they made their model wider it would go a long way to making them actually more potent as walls.

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@Droelie quote:

I like the pdt's since they came out, having 309k hp t1 at the moment :), they have hybrid damage magic & phys + aoe & are fun to use as walls :D! people are just too afraid to use it and just go back to old walls if it even fails 1 time.

Im offended that your PDT's have much higher HP than mine! How dare you!

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