Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
KnowsNoLimits

Ok lets outline what DD1 did right

Recommended Posts

First and for most it didn't have artificial limitations placed on you such as the Hero Deck and the irony was it was more popular online than DD2 for group play. You were limited by your imagination and DU. Now you have a forced meta and kill the replay value of people wanting to build one character for one sole purpose. Which was a hell of alot of fun to do and not easy to gear up. So to my fellow gamers eho enjoyed this aspect like me I salute you.

Which brings me to my next point, named online lobbies for match making. You knew exactly what game you were joining and what they were running.

Player shops. I have lost count on how many hours I spent just seeing other people's personal tavern, how they decorated it and what they had for offer. That was definitely the biggest social aspect of the game. Also a shout out to paypal shops being so bold to even be named "pay pal shops", we will see your return in DD2 soon enough.

Next is strategy to maps. In DD2 you opted for resistances and basic layouts of maps. I would like to see resistances gone and levels having tiers to them like Talay mines and more enemy lanes which don't converge near the spawn point. DD1 maps are memorable, DD2 maps are forgettable.

Proper inventory space, which you could further organise through folders and the much appreciated ability to lock special items so you didn't accidentally sell them.

Lets move on to gameplay. 

Viable melee characters. Countess, Monk and Barbarian. I rest my case.

Different modes of play. We had fun challenge modes, survival mode, story mode. Then on top of that we had ways to tailor your experience to what challenge you wanted. We had normal mode, hardcore mode, mix mode. The greater the risk, the greater the reward.

Survival mode, Onslaught is boring not in it's concept, but in it's execution. How did you overlook the thing people loved the most about survival mode?

The ability to start at the highest wave you have cleared and map specific rewards.

Enemy types and bosses that are actually threatening. Spiders, DEW's, Mages, Ogres, Sharken, Djinn, Goblin Copters. Do you guys remember how thrilling it was to take down the Ancient Dragon on Insane for the first time and by the skin of your teeth?

Need I go on?

Yes, yes I do.

Armor bonus to having a complete set of the same armor and upgrading it through ingame currency. No fusing anything, simplifed and enjoyable.

Pets that didn't needed to be grinded out and hit alot harder than DD2 pets. 

Nightmare mode. What happened here? 

It didn't need sequential numbers to be challenging. It was challening from the get go. You had Ogre's with much higher health and numbers, enemies that actually hit hard and would seek you out specifically. Tactical enemies which would weaken your defenses, such as spiders and Djinn. An enemy so infamous it could end your game in an instant and people fear it to this day, I refer to my beloved Sharken.

DD2's NMIV is more like Insane+ in comparison.

Feel free to add anything I missed, but it's mind boggling how Trendy had such a winning formula and only had to refine it. Yet they have gone in the opposite direction.

Also before someone has the nerve to bring up the age old well DD1 had more time to develop and this game is in Alpha excuse. Yes DD2 has a way to go, but DD1 had a very strong foundation before NM, DLC characters and DLC maps. In it's simplified form, the game was incredibly balanced and fun on it's release.

Until the Summoner came along and destroyed it. God bless the most OP character in existance of this franchise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with pretty much everything, exept for the melee not being viable. My monk and squire works very well on NM4 inc. It's not barbarian standards, i know :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Range: Having range as a stackable stat was a major factor in enabling diversity in defense strategy.  The lack of range as a stat is the biggest reason that defense setups feel dull and repetitive.  It is a large part of why map design feels boring.  Without range it is far harder to exploit the geography of a map.  It was also a lot of fun.  It made traps and auras vastly more interesting and versatile than they currently are.


Defense speed: Having defense speed as a stackable stat made towers visibly more impressive and fun to show off.



Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WEAPONS

The current arsenal of weapons in DD2 for the most part (mostly, though not entirely) are just different skins of the same 4 weapons. They are "almost" all functionally the same. BORING. I know there will be some who disagree, but I REALLY miss DD1 weapons whose DPS scaled with weapon stats rather than hero stats.

I also HATE the fact that all weapons from a given map and difficulty (eg. Liferoot NM4) all fall into such a narrow power band. Any weapon you pick up during 100 runs of that map will be virtually interchangeable.

Who remembers spending tons of time in DD1 testing weapon DPS against tavern dummies ... upgrading and testing again? Doing a run and picking up a new shiny weapon ... back to tavern and testing again to maximize DPS. Anyone remember watching youtube videos of DD1 that were simply showing off weapon DPS and nothing else? I LOVED that part of the game. It is completely absent from DD2. The weapons are simply boring, cookie cutter and one is as good as the next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DD2 maps are way to cramped and too small to have any strategy. 

Looking at carnival, it does not seem to be changing anytime soon. 

Ranged enemies targeting towers almost no matter where you place them, unless behind a barricade, is the main reason why we can't have diversity in this game. 

Oh and lets not mention air units. 

I have fun playing DD2. 

But it could of been way damn more fun. If Trendy let us have some. 

Dumbed down, restrictions all over the place, progression that does not feel like progressing at all while you are doing it. 

The swamps only get bigger as we progress, no new mechanics at all.

"Hardbringer was challenging" and now we will get "a fun map"...

Bloons TD is more complex than DD2 atm, so much potential but being dumbed down and strangled to death. 

I still have fun grinding, to a degree. But in my imagination I could of had way more of it if Trendy would let us have more fun...

Chasing 1% better pieces of loot is not fun.

Damn I can get a SPHERE that increases a towers range by 2%?! OMG YES, yes! -- No.

You'r petty balance of your game is slowly killing it.

I don't want a power creep like DD1, but at least it was more fun than what we have now. 

Please, we need some fun factor back in the Etheria.....initiate.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@PandynatorDD quote:Please, we need some fun factor back in the Etheria.....initiate.png

Oh, fear not, they are bringing the fun ... so much fun that you won't be able to wipe the smile off of you face. Pretty soon we're going to be able to ride a roller coaster !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Edit: This is sarcasm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The maps seem to be designed for aesthetics now... They cut the height down, made the lanes wavy, shrunk the maps, and put focus on scenery. Well it looks more realistic... Nobody really likes them but...


@PandynatorDD quote:Bloons TD is more complex than DD2 atm, so much potential but being dumbed down and strangled to death.

And no bouncers or BB, taking the physics towers out of squire... And instead of combining traps in imaginative ways, you get the most by using pre-programmed combos like freeze > shatter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Professor_Valconian quote:

WEAPONS

The current arsenal of weapons in DD2 for the most part (mostly, though not entirely) are just different skins of the same 4 weapons. They are "almost" all functionally the same. BORING. I know there will be some who disagree, but I REALLY miss DD1 weapons whose DPS scaled with weapon stats rather than hero stats.

DD1 made me use REALLY weak weapons for my dps heroes although I had lots of better ones just because they looked so awesome. I used that lightsaber (I miss the sound effects) from normal gamemode until insane just because I did not want to let it go. I did not like the chicken shooter but even its existence was a fun fact. Those hilarious weapons... how I miss them.

In DD2 I would never hesitate even a second to swap if I would get a better weapon. The design is well made but for me it feels like 'just a fantasy design' while the DD1 designs are 'awesome funny DD1 design'.


@Zuqual quote:

Range

The huge defense range really made it possible to do lots of hilarous experiments. Yes, that was fun. No idea how much time I killed just by setting defenses somewhere else because 'why not'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I miss the pure awesomeness from DD1 pets, and the fact that they actually helped killing stuff. DD2 pets couldn't kill a fly on it's own. My DD1 seahorse was so good dealing with spiders :)


I also miss the ability to switch to an alternate weapon during the fights.


Weapons in DD2 feels so sterile and just plain boring. The fun factor is completly gone. I want craaazzzZZYyy weapons.


I want a single shot sniper bow for the huntress with extremely high damage output.


For towers ... i miss range and rate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hardcore mode, build timer, mixed mode, Djinn unsummoning your traps and auras, spiders webbing you leaving you for all those goblin copter missiles to home in on you.

DD1 was and still is fun, its refreshing to play it, to run around bigger maps like City in the cliffs, to activate the tiles on KG and send everyone up up and away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ogre party hats for one and the way you got the ogre party hats. I miss challenges. I love raining goblins, I didn't need the reward but I just like seeing what heroes I could do it with. Racing the timer to get the initial setup just right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest I hated maps like Talay and Moraggo because of the long ways. That's something I appreciate on DD2. If there was a way to combine the current mapsize with the possiblity to build at different spots instead of one or two chokepoints it would be really awesome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@KnowsNoLimits quote:

First and for most it didn't have artificial limitations placed on you such as the Hero Deck and the irony was it was more popular online than DD2 for group play. You were limited by your imagination and DU. Now you have a forced meta and kill the replay value of people wanting to build one character for one sole purpose. Which was a hell of alot of fun to do and not easy to gear up. So to my fellow gamers eho enjoyed this aspect like me I salute you.

Which brings me to my next point, named online lobbies for match making. You knew exactly what game you were joining and what they were running.

Player shops. I have lost count on how many hours I spent just seeing other people's personal tavern, how they decorated it and what they had for offer. That was definitely the biggest social aspect of the game. Also a shout out to paypal shops being so bold to even be named "pay pal shops", we will see your return in DD2 soon enough.

Next is strategy to maps. In DD2 you opted for resistances and basic layouts of maps. I would like to see resistances gone and levels having tiers to them like Talay mines and more enemy lanes which don't converge near the spawn point. DD1 maps are memorable, DD2 maps are forgettable.

Proper inventory space, which you could further organise through folders and the much appreciated ability to lock special items so you didn't accidentally sell them.

Lets move on to gameplay. 

Viable melee characters. Countess, Monk and Barbarian. I rest my case.

Different modes of play. We had fun challenge modes, survival mode, story mode. Then on top of that we had ways to tailor your experience to what challenge you wanted. We had normal mode, hardcore mode, mix mode. The greater the risk, the greater the reward.

Survival mode, Onslaught is boring not in it's concept, but in it's execution. How did you overlook the thing people loved the most about survival mode?

The ability to start at the highest wave you have cleared and map specific rewards.

Enemy types and bosses that are actually threatening. Spiders, DEW's, Mages, Ogres, Sharken, Djinn, Goblin Copters. Do you guys remember how thrilling it was to take down the Ancient Dragon on Insane for the first time and by the skin of your teeth?

Need I go on?

Yes, yes I do.

Armor bonus to having a complete set of the same armor and upgrading it through ingame currency. No fusing anything, simplified and enjoyable.

Pets that didn't needed to be grinded out and hit alot harder than DD2 pets. 

Nightmare mode. What happened here? 

It didn't need sequential numbers to be challenging. It was challenging from the get go. You had Ogre's with much higher health and numbers, enemies that actually hit hard and would seek you out specifically. Tactical enemies which would weaken your defenses, such as spiders and Djinn. An enemy so infamous it could end your game in an instant and people fear it to this day, I refer to my beloved Sharken.

DD2's NMIV is more like Insane+ in comparison.

Feel free to add anything I missed, but it's mind boggling how Trendy had such a winning formula and only had to refine it. Yet they have gone in the opposite direction.

Also before someone has the nerve to bring up the age old well DD1 had more time to develop and this game is in Alpha excuse. Yes DD2 has a way to go, but DD1 had a very strong foundation before NM, DLC characters and DLC maps. In it's simplified form, the game was incredibly balanced and fun on it's release.

Until the Summoner came along and destroyed it. God bless the most OP character in existence of this franchise.

I'd like to nominate this post as "best constructive forum post".

The OP clearly and concisely nails a plethora of items that "Made the DD Franchise" yet were lost in the Sequel that is DD2.  

Was the loss of these amazing features due to failure to follow 'Precedent' (That which was should be the basis for what follows)?

Or did the current team fail to play the game and love it the way we did, thus seeing no value to that 'Precedent'?

In either case it can be argued that DD2 is 'kind of like DD1", but DD2 is not what we loved about DD1.  I would like to see the DD2 talent pool take a break from new content and spend some time learning how remarkable, silly, overpowered, and amazingly fun DD1 was, then get back to DD2 and try to find ways to channel that experience back into the game instead of shoehorning content into the current system of limited player choices and tiny maps.



And if the current limitations are due to hardware limitations of the PS system, then I have a tiny minor quiet suggestion to make:  BREAK THE LINK WITH PS4 AND GIVE PC PLAYERS (and their significantly stronger hardware) THE AMAZING GAME WE SEEK, DD1+++.



Some might argue that Canon would be a better description of this issue than Precedent, but I did not want to confuse the issue of Canon vs Cannon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@SGRock quote:I would like to see the DD2 talent pool take a break from new content and spend some time learning how remarkable, silly, overpowered, and amazingly fun DD1 was, then get back to DD2 and try to find ways to channel that experience back into the game instead of shoehorning content into the current system of limited player choices and tiny maps.

This.

I've had this exact thought. Stop coding. Stop developing. Stop selling. Play DD1 for a week solid. Then come back and make a great sequel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DD1 did it right. Putting an emphasis on over the top. Tower range and speed as an actual normal stat, Gear sets that raise them further, Weapons with a plethora of different stats to upgrade from damage to number of projectiles. Over the top is what made DD1 so incredible. Having a turret shoot incredible far and fast is not overpowered when you had a Sharken barrel through your defenses and have a 50million hp ogre prance right up to the crystal and 1 shot it. It was fun, it was hard, and it made you always keep a close eye on everything. 

Those moment you could find the trashiest weapons and armor then in the middle of the map under hundreds of other drops sits a beautiful "overpowered" piece that makes you scream like a little school girl. DD1 did it absolutely correct with its gear as well as its pets. Find an amazing weapon/armor/pet with only 15 max levels? No problem, you can find a slightly weaker weapon/armor/pet with about 250 levels that could blow the other one out of the water when upgraded.

There was no restrictions on the amount of heroes you could have or bring to a map. You could spend hours creating and trying out different set ups for almost every single map. Me and my friend would even spend hours looking at other peoples builds and take idea's from them and combine them. Over the top is what made DD1 what it was and it was amazing.  

DD1 allowed you let your imagination run wild when it came to builds and items. There wasnt heavy restrictions set on what you could and couldnt do. 

If you want DD2 to be as big of a success as DD1, build upon on what made DD1 so great. Lift at least some of the restrictions. Give us back tower range and tower speed as actual basic stats. Not useless passives. Rework pets so they are more like DD1's pets. Weapons need  a pretty hard revamp. They are all pretty much the same in terms of dps. Weapons should not scale with hero damage, only be modified by it like in DD1 and armor needs to have set bonuses like DD1 as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with a lot of these points. It'd be nice if Trendy chimed in and gave a reason for their change in direction, and if there are any plans to reintegrate some of these features.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the biggest issue is the low dps on towers, in DD1 you could actually do stuff to kill certain enemies before they reached your walls, now a kobold has 10x a single target towers DPS in hp. You just wind up building walls to tank everything, it makes it all the same, walls plus your best form of dps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@SGRock quote:

And if the current limitations are due to hardware limitations of the PS system, then I have a tiny minor quiet suggestion to make:  BREAK THE LINK WITH PS4 AND GIVE PC PLAYERS (and their significantly stronger hardware) THE AMAZING GAME WE SEEK, DD1+++.



Some might argue that Canon would be a better description of this issue than Precedent, but I did not want to confuse the issue of Canon vs Cannon.

O.O the grassy knoll is real.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Let us not forget the DD1 graphics. DD1's graphics were the most unique, and still most unique graphics I have seen to this day. It's kind of a shame that they just abandoned it for a more cartoonish feel. Also, DD1 bosses were so challenge and rewarding to beat. Harbinger wasn't really a challenge, everyone and their mom can beat him. However, on DD1 the bosses at the end some maps were insanely difficult and would take dozens of runs just to beat and find the mechanics. To this day not many people can beat the "Old One" on nightmare hardcore mode. If only they'd bring the challenge up a bit and not dumb the game down for a newer/younger audience. Also, on Nightmare mode in DD1, hundreds of ogres would spawn at the same time, not just like 3 over the course of the entire map like in DD2. Now lets talk about the ultimate grind feast DD2 has. In DD1, you could play a map and get decent gear, maybe not Ult/+/++ but decent enough to use. Now in DD2 legendaries are the only thing that you can use that are the most OP and grinding the same map over and over again for hours on hours is no bueno. Atleast in DD1 if you got board grinding gear, you could play some fun challenges like Boss Rush andgrind some coal for your Diamond, or you could play some unique and fun Holiday maps. Also, I remember spending hours just sitting in my tavern talking to friends and showing everyone your unique character. Oh, and, DD1's costumes were playful, funny, and fun to get. For lords sakes if you had a Monk you could play as Obama or Michelle Obama. But in DD2 were forced to buy Gems for the costumes which isn't fun at all. DD1 had a more relaxed and fun environment while DD2 is sticking to a main scheme and keeping all the fun things it could have out of it. Also in DD1 there were TONS ON TONS of weapon types of skins, no single weapon was the same. Every weapon had its own size, own stats, and own color to make it as personal as you wanted it to. While in DD2 you're stuck with basically the same couple of weapon skins that everyone has. In conclusion, WE NEED OUR DD1 BACK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That conclusion is BS rly xD
While i 100% agree DD2 should in some ways be more like DD1.... Saying we should have DD1 back is litterally the dumbest thing iv'e ever heard xD 
Trendy released DD1 2.0 aka. Dungeon Defenders: Eternity... In many ways that game was both an upgrade and downgrade (imo the good outweighed the bad)  compared to DD1 but people hated it because it had an absolute insane amount of bugs and server problems... While the gameplay itself remained true to DD1 people just gave up on the game for some odd reason....

So saying we need another DD1 is a total lie, we had that and the community hated it. Maybe thats why Trendy decided to go in a completely different way with DD2? Because apparently the same community that loved DD1 hated DD1 2.0....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...