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Chappyy

The last Dev stream saddens me once more.

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So let's sum up somethings real quick. Major patch focus oct, new content, nov, new content, dec, new content and a shout out to loot. Now the first major patch in 2016, new content. Mean while the community is going nuts over balance changes and unfinished work not to mention that which shall not be mentioned (by me at least)

There were some things mentioned that sounded cool but we can't play concepts.

Just really disappointed that even thought there is all this talk about fun, we are still not seeing anything done about the things that are ruining fun. Come on new old guy (I'm 40 so i get to call people old) turn the ship!

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The thing that saddened me the most was the new leader's response to the question about DD1 levels.  His answer was, to paraphrase, "We don't do that.  We move forward.  We're about the future."

We, we, we.  Meaning Trendy.  Not the fan base, which has fond memories of the old levels.

If he had responded by saying "There doesn't seem to be that much demand." I'd have not been so bothered.  But it sounded very much like "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."  Interested in pushing Trendy's vision to the exclusion of the desires of their customers.

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Don't worry Chappyy.  I was assured by the masses and the devs when I stopped playing in October that the seemingly overwhelming focus on pushing out new content doesn't slow down fixing the game fundamentals at all because a small indie developer doesn't have any overlap in resources (https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/127766/please-no-more-lipstick).  Even though the entire January dev log is about new content, IPASSBUTTER assures us that the six month discussion about things we actually give a damn about continues.  So, it's all good man.


P.S. - Thea the Awakening is a lot of fun for $20.  Check it out.

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The dev stream is now every two weeks in order to give us a better stream with more info but we got the same amount of info about nothing.  Why is the dev stream not about here's how we plan on fixing X and here is what we want to do with Y, in the next month we hope to resolve Z. That's what I want from the dev stream like it was in early 2015. Now all the dev streams seem to be hype streams about some new content or costumes. I personally can not be hyped while the core of the game remains unfun. Please stop trying to hype me up with sneak peaks. I want to be hyped up about fixes. I want to be like I can't wait to try the new changes to the towers, or new changes to the thing I'm not talking about. New content doesn't interest me at all because I don't like playing the game. Not I don't like playing the maps, THE GAME.


P.S. I bought Dragon's Dogma for 30

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Maybe the target audience is people who haven't tried the game yet.  If I was a potential new player I would be more interested in knowing that content is being actively added than in learning about how the game needs to be fixed.

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That's a good point and it could still serve that purpose.  During a 50 min stream it was more than half about the carnival.  You could even tell they were running out of things to say. Just unveil the sneak peak in 10 mins then move on to what players want to hear.

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@Chappyy quote:

That's a good point and it could still serve that purpose.  During a 50 min stream it was more than half about the carnival.  You could even tell they were running out of things to say. Just unveil the sneak peak in 10 mins then move on to what players want to hear.

yeah.. it's kind of weird you can get the feeling there's a lack of content to speak about when it's only once every two weeks now and no longer a full hour...

What are the reasons that there hasn't been a meeting to finalize what happens with the hero deck?  What time component am I missing out on?  Are they waiting to see if people forget about it?  Waiting to see if more heroes will alleviate the problems?  Can't get everyone together?  

Same with defense balancing.  What's holding up making decisions on cannonball uber?  Ballista balance?  Earthshatter balance?  We waiting for more passives to get implemented to try and fix it?  Or more likely.. is it nobody's job description to do that?  Is nobody on the job?  

Says something about the leadership.. imo


also, for fun some quotes from the new guy who's in a leadership position:

"great awesome foundation and then this year we're gonna build up on top of that make it even better for people to play" -Elliot Cannon 29:08

"... and the level design pretty much unsurpassed and all the character design brilliant" -Elliot Cannon 30:48


2016 will be a hell of a ride

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Hear hear.

I used to have really high hopes for this game, but so far it has failed to deliver.

I've got to call it like I see it. DD1 was a MUCH more enjoyable game. DD2 has yet to come close to living up to its predecessor. In terms of simple enjoyment, the two games are not even in the same ballpark.

I hope this changes and that one day DD2 will actually surpass DD1. NOTHING I have seen in 2015, unfortunately, leads me to think that will actually happen. That is a real bummer.

The community can only say the same things so many times in hopes that Trendy will listen. Unfortunately, for all their claims that they "read everything" and use feedback to make the game better ... it really appears that much of it falls on deaf ears.

Yes its their game. Yes they need to decide what they feel is best. Unfortunately, it seems like there is a significant part of the community who simply don't like the design choices they are making.

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Well if I understood him correctly they want to get away from passives. I hope this is true but that's one of those things were talk is great but lets hear what the plan is. I know he's really new but I hope we get a relatively quick action on the current core game mechanics before we start seeing even more unfinished heroes.

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@Professor_Valconian quote:

Hear hear.

I used to have really high hopes for this game, but so far it has failed to deliver.

I've got to call it like I see it. DD1 was a MUCH more enjoyable game. DD2 has yet to come close to living up to its predecessor. In terms of simple enjoyment, the two games are not even in the same ballpark.

I hope this changes and that one day DD2 will actually surpass DD1. NOTHING I have seen in 2015, unfortunately, leads me to think that will actually happen. That is a real bummer.

The community can only say the same things so many times in hopes that Trendy will listen. Unfortunately, for all their claims that they "read everything" and use feedback to make the game better ... it really appears that much of it falls on deaf ears.

Yes its their game. Yes they need to decide what they feel is best. Unfortunately, it seems like there is a significant part of the community who simply don't like the design choices they are making.

I do not doubt that someone reads all the posts. I do however think that not all the posts get discussion nor all the posts are read by the decision makers.

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@Professor_Valconian quote:The community can only say the same things so many times in hopes that Trendy will listen. Unfortunately, for all their claims that they "read everything" and use feedback to make the game better ... it really appears that much of it falls on deaf ears.



I think it's entirely likely that they hear us and yet are still acting rationally.

There are probably less than 100 people active on the forums voicing discontent.  If all of those players walked away from the game forever it wouldn't make a bit of difference to Trendy's bottom line.  So the only reason to make the concerns from the forum a priority is if they believe our opinions are representative of the player base at large.  They've indicated on multiple occasions that they don't think this is true, and maybe they are right. 

From that vantage point, it makes complete sense to ignore the forum concerns and focus on things they think will make a good impression with the majority of players who don't even know that the game has a forum.  If at the same time they can pay enough lip service on the forum to keep us hanging in there then it's a win-win for them.

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I have to agree on some of the things said.

Was pretty stupid to shut down DD1 maps returning as bonus maps and to say that DD2 maps are superior was a joke, Superior to what? Deeper wells maybe.

Aquanos, Akatiti, Karathiki, Winter Wonderland,Talay Mines, Moraggo, Crystaline Dimension, Moon Base, Palantir, hell even Embermount are far superior to every map in DD2 just because the layout of the maps required strategy in DD1. In DD2 you build as safe as you can to the spawn with the right reistance. ZZZZZZZZ.

You can make future maps as fancy looking as you want, but if they lack a strategy than lets just build in dem lanes close to spawns as close as possible. ZZZZZZZZ.

Also someone mentioned bi-weekly dev streams giving the same info as weekly ones info wise, I agree. You guys didn't talk about core things like tower balances and the Hero Deck in detail and what plans you had of rectifying it, just here's a carnival stage.

Hell the best thing of the stream was watching the Abyss Lord's idle animation and still after revealing the first new class, didn't mention if the HD would simply expand one more slot for him.

Yeah, no. 

I took a break from your game for a reason and I guarantee you that this new map won't make me want to invest time into the game. I may check it out, but meh. The Abyss Lord may shake things up and that's the time I will care.

I will give you kudos to one thing though. Syncing up the PS4 and PC is no easy task, so that's impressive and may make me return to the PS4 version if successful.


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I think it goes back to a point raised earlier about who the Dev Streams are targeting. Is it the current fan base that has been with the game franchise since DD1 or is it for new players who have never been inside the DD universe? They may be giving brief glimpses into the changes because they don't want to blow any one's minds about the changes. (Right? Emoji_Squire.png)

The Dev Stream showed off a lot of cool new things (The carnival, costumes, new hero, the carnival and marketplace wheels which seem really interesting to me!) but seems to be that they fail to go into depth about other topics that have been on the forefront of many returning player's minds: more heroes in the game and new (or returning) maps. They showed some sketches of the new heroes but that didn't give me any useful information other than they've made sketches of possible hero ideas. Also, it's cool there's going to be new heroes, but what about the heroes people have been dying to have return? 

(I also want to mention that the forums (both here and on steam) are not used by a lot of the player base. )

The Abyss Lord looked cool, but the description for this guy was pretty generic. "You can play him in many different ways. You don't have to just DPS with him" Well, this can be said for all the other characters. What's the cool different thing about this guy? He summons things (turrets?) that look diabolical? I think I missed it. I'm excited for the hero library to expand, but it feels like that is going slower than it really should. 

I can say this about last week's Dev Stream: the new creative director (Elliot Cannon) seems pretty awesome! He's passionate, excited, and is really very personable. I hope that there are some good things ahead for the game, in terms of getting the roadmap goals accomplished and also giving the playerbase something that has been asked for (in terms of something from DD1 returning besides the main 4 heroes). 

And I seriously can't wait for the PS4 to be up to date with the PC. 

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@Kiraeyl quote:

I think it goes back to a point raised earlier about who the Dev Streams are targeting. Is it the current fan base that has been with the game franchise since DD1 or is it for new players who have never been inside the DD universe? They may be giving brief glimpses into the changes because they don't want to blow any one's minds about the changes. (Right? Emoji_Squire.png)

The Dev Stream showed off a lot of cool new things (The carnival, costumes, new hero, the carnival and marketplace wheels which seem really interesting to me!) but seems to be that they fail to go into depth about other topics that have been on the forefront of many returning player's minds: more heroes in the game and new (or returning) maps. They showed some sketches of the new heroes but that didn't give me any useful information other than they've made sketches of possible hero ideas. Also, it's cool there's going to be new heroes, but what about the heroes people have been dying to have return? 

(I also want to mention that the forums (both here and on steam) are not used by a lot of the player base. )

The Abyss Lord looked cool, but the description for this guy was pretty generic. "You can play him in many different ways. You don't have to just DPS with him" Well, this can be said for all the other characters. What's the cool different thing about this guy? He summons things (turrets?) that look diabolical? I think I missed it. I'm excited for the hero library to expand, but it feels like that is going slower than it really should. 

I can say this about last week's Dev Stream: the new creative director (Elliot Cannon) seems pretty awesome! He's passionate, excited, and is really very personable. I hope that there are some good things ahead for the game, in terms of getting the roadmap goals accomplished and also giving the playerbase something that has been asked for (in terms of something from DD1 returning besides the main 4 heroes). 

And I seriously can't wait for the PS4 to be up to date with the PC. 

Is that a Kappa at the end of your first paragraph? See that's my point, it doesn't matter if you played DD1 or DDE. The DEV stream should be about the development of DD2. Yes it should show new heroes and new maps or things like the carnival and the hero market place. It shouldn't however be the main focus, consuming all the time of the stream.

There should a fairly simple format for the stream to start with. Block out the time better, give a block to new content and new heroes. Then for the next two blocks you format them in short term (next patch) and long term (next month). These are changes to heroes, towers, and current game mechanics.  Followed by bug fix goals. Moving on to future teaser features, things that are in the works for the next three months but you don't want to give out details because they are still in concept stage. Finally we get to miscellaneous, questions, and summery.  Most of the forum questions I would address in the segments they are focused on if possible and whatever is left over are handled now along with all lightning round questions.


These blocks get put on the white board across the top and as the week two weeks goes by the topics get listed or removed under the blocks as the meetings progress. The script is written at the end of the two weeks and the stream goes live. This is the type of information that will give the stream the meat and potatoes to keep the masses engaged with you. Right now I am willing to bet everyone tunes in just to hopefully get news on the main issues and leave sad at the end.


Don't get me wrong now, I'm not saying the streamers are bad. [[14,users]] does an awesome job of keeping the stream moving as well as keeping the guest speakers focused and moving forward. Except [[59260,users]], you can't stop Brad. You can only hope to contain him, except for maybe with a bearicade. Anyways none of this works unless they are willing to talk about these topics and by past streams they like to keep things on the downlow.


Finally I have to agree the new old guy (Elliot Cannon) gives off a good vibe. Probably because I bet he has used a hole punch on a 5 1/2 inch floppy. Excited to see the direction and hopefully get a chance to hear about more things to come.

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Thank you all for posting. I apologize if the latest Devstream caused any frustration. We are still trying to work out what some best practices are for these segments. 

I appreciate all of the great feedback in this thread, specifically about Devstream structure, and exactly what issues you all want to hear about. I think that the content block idea is a great one, and I will do what I can to push it, but ultimately, the decision is made above my paygrade. :)

As an aside, we try to answer almost every single question asked in the devstream threads. If you want to get a question answered, hop over to the Devstream Questions thread and post a concise, non-inflammatory question. I will make sure it gets included in the question bank for the devstream. 

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@I_PASS_BUTTER quote:

Thank you all for posting. I apologize if the latest Devstream caused any frustration. We are still trying to work out what some best practices are for these segments. 

I appreciate all of the great feedback in this thread, specifically about Devstream structure, and exactly what issues you all want to hear about. I think that the content block idea is a great one, and I will do what I can to push it, but ultimately, the decision is made above my paygrade. :)

As an aside, we try to answer almost every single question asked in the devstream threads. If you want to get a question answered, hop over to the Devstream Questions thread and post a concise, non-inflammatory question. I will make sure it gets included in the question bank for the devstream. 

Good luck but since you pass butter I know it will slip right into place.

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@Chappyy quote:


@Kiraeyl quote: Snip

Snip

Finally I have to agree the new old guy (Elliot Cannon) gives off a good vibe. Probably because I bet he has used a hole punch on a 5 1/2 inch floppy. Excited to see the direction and hopefully get a chance to hear about more things to come.

I completely agree with you [[70482,users]]. It would be great to have more information regarding the plan of the short and long terms of the game and the Dev stream is certainly one place they can do this. Ideally I'd like your full devstream solution to be implemented but in the meantime as a gesture of goodwill perhaps they can split it into 3 20min sections. 1st for new content, 2nd for planned changes and 3rd for questions and the lightning round.

Hole Punch on a 5 1/2 inch floppy, I've laughed way longer than I should have at this. 

I've got high hopes regarding Elliot and direction of the game but I will say give Trendy time to get adjusted to their new team structure and get all the internal timetables & deadlines sorted before we complain further about issues. (That's not to say don't report on issues, just don't expect immediate results)

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[[64025,users]]

any response to the other stuff said in this forum about the content not EVER getting fixing, or other game breaking features like just about everything else in game? 

cause i'm sure the game play numbers dropping rapidly is no cause for concern. *last i checked it was at 1,700 and it's been falling almost 200 or more weekly, and that's after you gave away 10,000 free copies. 

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[[64025,users]]

come on man, you're killin me. that's not even a smidge close to what I said. 

you guys can't afford to be like this. the numbers show your player base is falling, and hard. 

you all need to really have a sit down discussion with the players, give us a multitude of polls about old features being redone and how to fix them (and actually listen to the poll numbers), and really work on the problems. 

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Thank you very much for your suggestion. I'll make sure to pass this up the chain. We are always looking for ways to improve the experience for our players. 


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