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Blaze Balloon Fixed and now op - Ramparts Solo

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if i recall correctly, the crit chance on defense inspection is reflective of what the actual crit chance is. i also want to say that most defenses are hard capped, with the blaze balloon being the exception.

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@gigazelle quote:

if i recall correctly, the crit chance on defense inspection is reflective of what the actual crit chance is. i also want to say that most defenses are hard capped, with the blaze balloon being the exception.

I'm fairly sure it's bugged.  Crit chance should never be some awkward decimal point number.  But thanks to multiplicative awkward percents internally, it's creating this silliness.

As for the cap, I think it was stated that it caps in the tooltip to 30 but exceeds 30.

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@Tang quote:


@Pachipachio quote:


@DKperfection quote:

Who knows... it's capped on tooltip only, not in the stat sheet xD
So for all we know Hero crit chance might be capped at 30% too... We have no idea rly :/

Yeah, I wouldn't be convinced until someone runs a long and tedious test where they record a very large number of attacks at 30% crit rate and 45% crit rate (or 50% on squire or whatever % on blaze balloon) and then compare the two tests

that's impossible cause at any percent other then 100 it is up to rng if we crit or not so such results are not valid if trendy would add in to the tooltips the cap % in brackets or something or even in character sheet it would certainly clarify things for veteran players and also new players. 


Uh, it's not impossible.  The way you effectively test % chances like that is to get a bunch of data points.

You CAN tell the difference between 30% and 45% crit rate, undeniably, if you have (for example) 1000 attacks of each.  The difference between 30% and 45% should be readily apparent then.  So, a test with enough data points would be very valid

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All it'd take is someone taking 5-10 minutes and record the number of times a single defense crits. If you have 1000+ data points, it would be pretty undeniable what the crit chance would be within 5%.

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Thats soft capped... which mean that you can't get gear good enough to take it higher than 45%.... But tooltip on all towers except blaze ballon seem to have a hard cap at 30%.

The information in that post and the info we get from ingame completely goes against each other -.- And nobody have clarified anything on this subject yet.

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@roboticaust quote:


@Xopo quote:


@gigazelle quote:


@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:
@gigazelle quote:

snip

snip

snip

Or just have ungodly luck :D

Is this where I brag about getting an i695 base Phantom Phoenix with all 3 Blaze Balloon passives available for weapons?



@gigazelle quote:

All it'd take is someone taking 5-10 minutes and record the number of times a single defense crits. If you have 1000+ data points, it would be pretty undeniable what the crit chance would be within 5%.

Doing such a task will take a lot of time staring at the screen lol, also its hard to notice crits when aalot is happening and its hard without any combat log. 

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Well..... I guess considering all that matters is the crit chance you could just use a 1/s bow with low projectile amount to see it easily :P Then just count if that hit was crit or not.... Do that 1000 times would be damn boring though >.>
And to compare you'd need to do it 2000 times in total or even more possibly :P

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@DKperfection quote:

Thats soft capped... which mean that you can't get gear good enough to take it higher than 45%.... But tooltip on all towers except blaze ballon seem to have a hard cap at 30%.

The information in that post and the info we get from ingame completely goes against each other -.- And nobody have clarified anything on this subject yet.

A more glaring inconsistency is the fact that if crit rate is soft capped at 45% (which would imply the tooltip is a display bug) then there is NO WAY the balloon is soft capped at around 50%.

Tough to take butter's word there, as it's obvious he misunderstood or failed to communicate at least one thing between asking the dev team and relaying it to us

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@Pachipachio quote:


@DKperfection quote:

Thats soft capped... which mean that you can't get gear good enough to take it higher than 45%.... But tooltip on all towers except blaze ballon seem to have a hard cap at 30%.

The information in that post and the info we get from ingame completely goes against each other -.- And nobody have clarified anything on this subject yet.

A more glaring inconsistency is the fact that if crit rate is soft capped at 45% (which would imply the tooltip is a display bug) then there is NO WAY the balloon is soft capped at around 50%.

Tough to take butter's word there, as it's obvious he misunderstood or failed to communicate at least one thing between asking the dev team and relaying it to us

Also the soft cap on towers wouldn't be 45% unless you have legacy squire shield with def crit chance.... The soft cap for tower crit chance would be 43% if you take all gear, spheres and base stats into account :)
Soft cap for blaze is 69% if you do the same thing.... So obviously Butter was off on that statement :P

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:


@Nefhith quote:

unless you want to farm the peeeeerrrrfect gear for two towers + tower crit chance, which is such a slim chance you can spend over 50 hours of farming without even getting a "good" piece.

I don't think it is even possible. 2 towers have more passives than you can possibly get. Frostbite/Flamethrower might be the only exception, but you'd still have to sacrifice something. On your weapon you would not be able to get Frost Fire, Snowstorm, Pyromania, and Defense Crit Chance, and you'd have to skip Vector Corrector on everything in order to get Frosty Power, Pyromania, and Defense Crit Chance on other gear.

For Squire towers you'd need: Defense Power, Defense Crit Damage, and Defense Health (for Splody Harpoon) then for passives you'd need Black Arrow, Speedy Harpoon, Splody Harpoon, Shellshock, Iron Core, Vector Corrector, Defense Crit Chance. It's just not possible.

For Huntress traps, PDTs and blaze balloons you'd need: Defense Power, Defense Crit Damage, Defense Health, Phoenix Call, Phoenix's Luck, Phoenix Flame, Victory Smell, Tripwire, Volatile Schematics, Exploding Poison, Towering Poison, Envenom, Vector Correct, Defense Crit Chance. That's 11 different passives, pick any 2 of the 3 and you still can't do it.

For Monk it's actually impossible to use his 2 best defenses because Purge Evil and the harbinger LSA passive are mutually exclusive.

That's exactly what I meant.

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@DKperfection quote:


@Pachipachio quote:


@DKperfection quote:

Thats soft capped... which mean that you can't get gear good enough to take it higher than 45%.... But tooltip on all towers except blaze ballon seem to have a hard cap at 30%.

The information in that post and the info we get from ingame completely goes against each other -.- And nobody have clarified anything on this subject yet.

A more glaring inconsistency is the fact that if crit rate is soft capped at 45% (which would imply the tooltip is a display bug) then there is NO WAY the balloon is soft capped at around 50%.

Tough to take butter's word there, as it's obvious he misunderstood or failed to communicate at least one thing between asking the dev team and relaying it to us

Also the soft cap on towers wouldn't be 45% unless you have legacy squire shield with def crit chance.... The soft cap for tower crit chance would be 43% if you take all gear, spheres and base stats into account :)
Soft cap for blaze is 69% if you do the same thing.... So obviously Butter was off on that statement :P

Nah it's 45% without squire shield.  50% with

3% natural, 2% small sphere, 2% small sphere, 3% small, 5% medium, 5% on trophy/feet/hands/body/head/weapon is 45

(3+2+2+3+5+5+5+5+5+5+5)

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So I just tested the crit hard cap on a tavern dummy, here's the results.

Test subject: cannon
Tooltip crit chance: 30%
Crit chance on gear: 40%

Total crits on the dummy: 77
Total non-crits on the dummy: 175
Total hits: 252
Observed crit chance with 252 samples: 30.55%

Even though this isn't the biggest sample size, I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that crit chance is hard capped at 30%. I'll test the blaze balloon here in a sec.

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Okay, here's the results:

Test subject: Blaze Balloon
Tooltip crit chance: 48.53%
Crit chance on gear: 49%

Total crits on the dummy: 130
Total non-crits on the dummy: 157
Total hits: 287
Observed crit chance with 287 samples: 45.3%

With this being said, it is safe to assume that the tooltip is the definitive source of crit chance. This also means that you don't need more than 30% crit on any defense outside the blaze balloon.

It can also be said that with perfect crit chance and phoenix luck gear, you can send the elemental chaos trap home with its tail between its legs.

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@gigazelle quote:

Okay, here's the results:

Test subject: Blaze Balloon
Tooltip crit chance: 48.53%
Crit chance on gear: 49%

Total crits on the dummy: 130
Total non-crits on the dummy: 157
Total hits: 287
Observed crit chance with 287 samples: 45.3%

With this being said, it is safe to assume that the tooltip is the definitive source of crit chance. This also means that you don't need more than 30% crit on any defense outside the blaze balloon.

It can also be said that with perfect crit chance and phoenix luck gear, you can send the elemental chaos trap home with its tail between its legs.

What kinda damage you putting out?

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@gigazelle quote:

Okay, here's the results:

Test subject: Blaze Balloon
Tooltip crit chance: 48.53%
Crit chance on gear: 49%

Total crits on the dummy: 130
Total non-crits on the dummy: 157
Total hits: 287
Observed crit chance with 287 samples: 45.3%

With this being said, it is safe to assume that the tooltip is the definitive source of crit chance. This also means that you don't need more than 30% crit on any defense outside the blaze balloon.

It can also be said that with perfect crit chance and phoenix luck gear, you can send the elemental chaos trap home with its tail between its legs.



@gigazelle quote:

So I just tested the crit hard cap on a tavern dummy, here's the results.

Test subject: cannon
Tooltip crit chance: 30%
Crit chance on gear: 40%

Total crits on the dummy: 77
Total non-crits on the dummy: 175
Total hits: 252
Observed crit chance with 252 samples: 30.55%

Even though this isn't the biggest sample size, I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that crit chance is hard capped at 30%. I'll test the blaze balloon here in a sec.

Nice job, I certainly wouldn't have the patience to test this out my self just all them numbers would hurt my head :>, I personally think they should just remove the crit chance cap.

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@gigazelle quote:

So I just tested the crit hard cap on a tavern dummy, here's the results.

Test subject: cannon
Tooltip crit chance: 30%
Crit chance on gear: 40%

Total crits on the dummy: 77
Total non-crits on the dummy: 175
Total hits: 252
Observed crit chance with 252 samples: 30.55%

Even though this isn't the biggest sample size, I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that crit chance is hard capped at 30%. I'll test the blaze balloon here in a sec.



@gigazelle quote:

Okay, here's the results:

Test subject: Blaze Balloon
Tooltip crit chance: 48.53%
Crit chance on gear: 49%

Total crits on the dummy: 130
Total non-crits on the dummy: 157
Total hits: 287
Observed crit chance with 287 samples: 45.3%

With this being said, it is safe to assume that the tooltip is the definitive source of crit chance. This also means that you don't need more than 30% crit on any defense outside the blaze balloon.

It can also be said that with perfect crit chance and phoenix luck gear, you can send the elemental chaos trap home with its tail between its legs.

Thanks for checking this out, Giga. I'm going to pass this up the chain and get someone from DesignLand to weigh in. 

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The chaos elemental trap has been send home long ago :P Blaze Ballon, Lightning Aura and Flamethrowers all have WAY higher dmg output + coverage :)

But nice to know that tooltip seem to be the final factor in crit chance, which i'm kinda happy about considering my current gear xD

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Speaking of crit chance, why on earth is it spitting out awkward decimal numbers in the first place.  Every hero has a whole number base and all passives are essentially whole numbers themselves.  This feels wonky and wrong to me that it's spitting out two differing values for essentially the same thing.  If my crit chance should be 29% and my character sheet is saying 29%, then I shouldn't see 28.00235252623456349673986 on my tooltip, nor should the calculations be using 28.00235252623456349673986.  While I do understand from a programmers perspective as to "why" it's doing this, I don't understand why it hasn't been addressed.

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In the current gameplay, the following rules are in effect:

  • Defenses are capped at 30% Crit Chance
  • Blaze Balloons are an exception, and are (un)capped at 100% Crit Chance

30% Defense Crit Chance is achievable with a relatively standard set of Defense Crit Chance items and/or a few Skill Spheres. Some players have achieved as high as 40% Defense Crit Chance, and this would be overkill on anything besides a Blaze Balloon.

With the Blaze Balloon specific skill spheres, you can get a Defense Crit Chance closer to 50%. New gear may appear to allow this to go higher obviously, as the Blaze Balloon still has some room to grow.

There's a few bugs with displaying/generating Crit Chance that we're aiming to fix (such as the mentioned issues with the fractional displays).

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@Trendy Brett quote:

In the current gameplay, the following rules are in effect:

  • Defenses are capped at 30% Crit Chance
  • Blaze Balloons are an exception, and are (un)capped at 100% Crit Chance

30% Defense Crit Chance is achievable with a relatively standard set of Defense Crit Chance items and/or a few Skill Spheres. Some players have achieved as high as 40% Defense Crit Chance, and this would be overkill on anything besides a Blaze Balloon.

With the Blaze Balloon specific skill spheres, you can get a Defense Crit Chance closer to 50%. New gear may appear to allow this to go higher obviously, as the Blaze Balloon still has some room to grow.

There's a few bugs with displaying/generating Crit Chance that we're aiming to fix (such as the mentioned issues with the fractional displays).

Perfect, thanks Brett. While we're on the topic, is hero crit chance capped at 30% too?

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@I_PASS_BUTTER quote:


@gigazelle quote:

So I just tested the crit hard cap on a tavern dummy, here's the results.

Test subject: cannon
Tooltip crit chance: 30%
Crit chance on gear: 40%

Total crits on the dummy: 77
Total non-crits on the dummy: 175
Total hits: 252
Observed crit chance with 252 samples: 30.55%

Even though this isn't the biggest sample size, I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that crit chance is hard capped at 30%. I'll test the blaze balloon here in a sec.



@gigazelle quote:

Okay, here's the results:

Test subject: Blaze Balloon
Tooltip crit chance: 48.53%
Crit chance on gear: 49%

Total crits on the dummy: 130
Total non-crits on the dummy: 157
Total hits: 287
Observed crit chance with 287 samples: 45.3%

With this being said, it is safe to assume that the tooltip is the definitive source of crit chance. This also means that you don't need more than 30% crit on any defense outside the blaze balloon.

It can also be said that with perfect crit chance and phoenix luck gear, you can send the elemental chaos trap home with its tail between its legs.

Thanks for checking this out, Giga. I'm going to pass this up the chain and get someone from DesignLand to weigh in. 



@Trendy Brett quote:

In the current gameplay, the following rules are in effect:

  • Defenses are capped at 30% Crit Chance
  • Blaze Balloons are an exception, and are (un)capped at 100% Crit Chance

30% Defense Crit Chance is achievable with a relatively standard set of Defense Crit Chance items and/or a few Skill Spheres. Some players have achieved as high as 40% Defense Crit Chance, and this would be overkill on anything besides a Blaze Balloon.

With the Blaze Balloon specific skill spheres, you can get a Defense Crit Chance closer to 50%. New gear may appear to allow this to go higher obviously, as the Blaze Balloon still has some room to grow.

There's a few bugs with displaying/generating Crit Chance that we're aiming to fix (such as the mentioned issues with the fractional displays).

As your name suggest your are great at passing things on butter, I'm sure a lot of people appreciate that, Also thanks Brett for taking the time to reply and answer what was troubling us all.

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@gigazelle quote:

Perfect, thanks Brett. While we're on the topic, is hero crit chance capped at 30% too?

Hero Crit Chance was intended to be capped at 30%, like Defense Crit Chance, but due to a bug it is currently un-capped (theoretically could be 100%). We expect to fix that bug in the future, and hopefully will fix the Character Stat screen to display the cap.

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