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Tristaris

Am I the only one who is hesitant about new Heroes?

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If this goes through will there be a way to get a full refund on all support for broken promises its bad enough i lost some costumes randomly since i dunno when (remember spending hours leveling the exp on the monk lightning eyes costume and now apparnetly i dont have it probably others i dont notice as much).

what happened to old robo, you used to be up in arms and creative now you seem.. different.. did you become a QA tester and get a pat on the back? I remember there were others like that.. casters guild?!?

Anyway back to the subject at hand. they should give people the opportunity to get heroes through achievements or some other way, if people want something there gonna buy it, if people want something and can't afford it at the time and feel its unavailable they will go elsewhere and you lose possible money in the future not like your costumes are cheap and if you keep pumping out 1 every 2 weeks i feel bad for whoever is purchasing and collecting all of them.

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@In.Session quote:

its bad enough i lost some costumes randomly since i dunno when (remember spending hours leveling the exp on the monk lightning eyes costume and now apparnetly i dont have it probably others i dont notice as much).

Have you spoken to our Customer Service folks? If not, they will happily help you reclaim access to any of your skins/costumes.

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The only way I can see heroes not freely available to everyone on release day is if they use a time-gated currency like wyvern tokens or a new currency not introduced into the game yet. Not of fan of locking them behind any sort of currency though.

@KnowsNoLimits quote:

All DD1 content could be cleared with base DD1 Heroes, it would be the same here.

Summoner and EV are straight-up required to clear a lot of NM levels; in fact, a lot of nightmare content is balanced around the fact that both of these heroes exist. If by 'all DD1 content' you mean all levels excluding nightmare, then sure, I'd say it's definitely reasonable to say all maps can be cleared outside of Nightmare. But if you're including NM in that statement, I'm calling BS. There is no way dealing 1/6th damage (w/o buff beam) and half DU (summoner MU) can still clear maps like Crystalline Dimension or Talay.

DD1 wasn't necessarily P2W, but there is absolutely a difficulty paywall that can only be surmounted by purchasing the EV + summoner or playing with someone who owns them. While I seriously doubt Trendy will do the same thing with the abyss lord, requiring new hero types to be paid for just doesn't sit well with me, regardless of currency used. I know that some currency like wyvern tokens wouldn't be P2W, but regardless of this, I feel like all heroes should be available to all players from the very beginning.

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One small thing to consider with DD1 is that Summoner, EV and NM are not part of the original game. They were all DLC  elements added later. With the base game, you could clear all the content, every level, mode and difficulty with the four main heroes. :)

Technically DD1 NM never officially left beta.

Also, Summoner broke DD1 really hard. It was fun, but so broken. Any hopes of reigning in the difficulty and power creep after that release would have been very optimistic.

@gigazelle quote:

Summoner and EV are straight-up required to clear a lot of NM levels; in fact, a lot of nightmare content is balanced around the fact that both of these heroes exist. If by 'all DD1 content' you mean all levels excluding nightmare, then sure, I'd say it's definitely reasonable to say all maps can be cleared outside of Nightmare. But if you're including NM in that statement, I'm calling BS. There is no way dealing 1/6th damage (w/o buff beam) and half DU (summoner MU) can still clear maps like Crystalline Dimension or Talay.

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Okay, that's a fair statement - All non-DLC content can be beaten with non-DLC heroes. It's not by any means all DD1 content nor will it let you get 100% of the achievements in the game, but I could certainly see NM Summit being the hardest content and being beaten with just the 4 base heroes.

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The guys at Trendy need to live so I say get the paid heroes flowing, it's not necessarily pay to win it's pay to have more fun, which is why people buy games is it not?

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@Fozzie quote:

The guys at Trendy need to live so I say get the paid heroes flowing, it's not necessarily pay to win it's pay to have more fun, which is why people buy games is it not?

People wont feel real good about paid heroes after trendy took hard steps against monetizing any gaming content. 

Said maps wouldn't be paid

Said heroes wouldn't be paid (until this last dev stream)

Said legendary pet eggs couldn't be bought outright because that's too p2w

The last one always gets me good because of course that's not the reason.  Can make more money off gambling boxes by raising the effective price of the wanted item through the roof.  No doubt the effective cost (adjusting for % chance) of a legendary pet from a premium egg could be north of a hundred dollars which nobody would outright buy if that were an option


It would just be a move that undoubtedly would get a lot of negative feedback from much more than the couple dozen of us that come here to post.  

No doubt if they did that they would keep hero slots as a paid feature.. since people would need to buy a hero slot AND the new hero... which means hero deck must stay.  Lovely stuff

If they decide to go the paid route, anyway.  Personally, I'd probably buy em along with you and not really care about the money.  I'll have what fun I can have and move on.  I do think it's a bad long term strategy (if the goal is a large player base) to gate new heroes behind pay walls though

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If people have to pay for heroes it's going to create a crap storm every time you change something. 

You can't just nerf something people have paid real money for. 

Just look at World of Tanks. Even op premium tanks stay unchanged to not upset the customers and are instead removed from the shop.   

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If I had the choice between paying for new heroes and paying for additional hero slots, I'd choose to keep the hero slots a paid mechanic in a heartbeat.

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I don't think the new heroes will be purchasable. That would be way more pay 2 win than guaranteeing a specific (premium) pet ability for purchase.


Although I'd totally agree if some or all of the new of the heroes would not be available until the campaign has been finished.

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I wouldn't mind having to pay for the new heroes so long as I can do so with gems I already have (do NOT sell them exclusively via a DLC on Steam).

What I'm most concerned about is how they're going to handle gear passives with all these new characters and the increased scale of the issues around balancing everything.


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@gigazelle quote
@KnowsNoLimits quote:

All DD1 content could be cleared with base DD1 Heroes, it would be the same here.

Summoner and EV are straight-up required to clear a lot of NM levels; in fact, a lot of nightmare content is balanced around the fact that both of these heroes exist. If by 'all DD1 content' you mean all levels excluding nightmare, then sure, I'd say it's definitely reasonable to say all maps can be cleared outside of Nightmare. But if you're including NM in that statement, I'm calling BS. There is no way dealing 1/6th damage (w/o buff beam) and half DU (summoner MU) can still clear maps like Crystalline Dimension or Talay.

DD1 wasn't necessarily P2W, but there is absolutely a difficulty paywall that can only be surmounted by purchasing the EV + summoner or playing with someone who owns them. While I seriously doubt Trendy will do the same thing with the abyss lord, requiring new hero types to be paid for just doesn't sit well with me, regardless of currency used. I know that some currency like wyvern tokens wouldn't be P2W, but regardless of this, I feel like all heroes should be available to all players from the very beginning.

Summoner and EVE are certainly not needed for NM content. Hell just because you couldn't do it, doesn't mean it's not possible. CD isn't as tough as you make it out to be either, several people have cleared it with myhtical gear.  So if raw power isn't needed then it can be done with out Summoner/EVE with NM gear on your other builders.

We also never had Summoner and EVE for all of the NM content including some of the shard dlc and we still were able to beat it. 

Simply because DD1 did it right, strategy over raw power.  

Lets also not forget about what else was really OP in DD1, Auras for one, there range and power were insane, also lets not forget ensare, strenght drain and electric aura combo. Fireballs/Harpoon combo were amazing as well, the stun from fb and pierce from harpoons decimated enemies, traps were pretty damn useful gas combo'd with proxies, flame and ethreal stacked.

You want added power to help kill things faster, it's called a DPS Monk. Just initate god mode with his tower/DPS boost and watch everything melt. if you didn't have him just use a guardian pet, same thing.

Summoner wasn't OP in DD1, he was damn right broken. He made end game content alot eaiser, but like I said he certainly isn't necessary for NM content at all.

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@In.Session quote:

what happened to old robo, you used to be up in arms and creative now you seem.. different.. did you become a QA tester and get a pat on the back? I remember there were others like that.. casters guild?!?

Trying to curb my angst.  Honestly feel like a lot of the anger, flaming and unproductivity lately from not just myself but a fair deal of us isn't helping matters any.  We are just making chesticles work harder lol.  But in all seriousness, I just want the community we had back in dd1; the community where we'd post guides and brag about drops and things of that nature rather than filling the forums up with endless mob mentality nonsense.  Just feels like we are taking steps away from the spot we all used to go to for fun if that makes sense.

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@roboticaust quote:


@In.Session quote:

what happened to old robo, you used to be up in arms and creative now you seem.. different.. did you become a QA tester and get a pat on the back? I remember there were others like that.. casters guild?!?

Trying to curb my angst.  Honestly feel like a lot of the anger, flaming and unproductivity lately from not just myself but a fair deal of us isn't helping matters any.  We are just making chesticles work harder lol.  But in all seriousness, I just want the community we had back in dd1; the community where we'd post guides and brag about drops and things of that nature rather than filling the forums up with endless mob mentality nonsense.  Just feels like we are taking steps away from the spot we all used to go to for fun if that makes sense.

He joined us in the dark-side mwhahahaha

One of us! One of us!

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@roboticaust quote:

 I just want the community we had back in dd1; the community where we'd post guides and brag about drops and things of that nature rather than filling the forums up with endless mob mentality nonsense.  

Isn't it sound logic to infer that this difference in communal tone stems from differences in the actual game? Perhaps it's the case that DD1 had less to complain about than DD2, resulting in the current situation. I can't speak for everyone, but I know this is the case for me (though, I wouldn't label my threads/posts as flaming).

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@gigazelle quote:

The only way I can see heroes not freely available to everyone on release day is if they use a time-gated currency like wyvern tokens or a new currency not introduced into the game yet. Not of fan of locking them behind any sort of currency though.

@KnowsNoLimits quote:

All DD1 content could be cleared with base DD1 Heroes, it would be the same here.

Summoner and EV are straight-up required to clear a lot of NM levels; in fact, a lot of nightmare content is balanced around the fact that both of these heroes exist. If by 'all DD1 content' you mean all levels excluding nightmare, then sure, I'd say it's definitely reasonable to say all maps can be cleared outside of Nightmare. But if you're including NM in that statement, I'm calling BS. There is no way dealing 1/6th damage (w/o buff beam) and half DU (summoner MU) can still clear maps like Crystalline Dimension or Talay.

DD1 wasn't necessarily P2W, but there is absolutely a difficulty paywall that can only be surmounted by purchasing the EV + summoner or playing with someone who owns them. While I seriously doubt Trendy will do the same thing with the abyss lord, requiring new hero types to be paid for just doesn't sit well with me, regardless of currency used. I know that some currency like wyvern tokens wouldn't be P2W, but regardless of this, I feel like all heroes should be available to all players from the very beginning.

I just want to say i Cleared all DD1 content with Squire Monk and Huntress towers. and App dps. 

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It isn't the first time they've telegraphed breaking their promises.  In the devstream where they previewed the limited edition skeleton skins, they said they wouldn't be coming back.  Said it many times, in fact.  Then in the devstream before last they tell us that maybe they'll bring them back if they can do it in a cool way.

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@Tristaris quote:

Don't get me wrong about the title, new heroes would be nice, and it'll be a nice change of pace especially in regards to providing more variety than we've been stuck with, but it doesn't come without concerns...

I can't recall where it was posted, but if I recall correctly, isn't each hero going to have a price tag? I am not that thrilled about it, honestly. I feel that the game as a core has many more issues (and throwing heroes at it, just feels like it's compounding on that fact.) Also, I feel that it kind of goes against the "no advantages being sold for money" portion. If it were hero skins, it'd be differently, but a whole new set of towers kind of does provide an in game advantage. Right? How would it not? 

Let me put it this way, you cannot buy a guaranteed legendary pet for money, due to it being an advantage, but a totally new hero, is different? I'd love to know the thought process behind this. I'm not complaining about a price tag, because hey, I believe it's good to support a company (hell, my account has quite a bit of money in it, and there still isn't anything in regards to the tower skins...)

Maybe I'm wrong in it, maybe some heroes will be free, but I thought in a devstream that it was stated they would be paid, and I'm not liking it.

Anyone care to clarify? I'm open to the thought process behind it. 

PS: http://www.twitch.tv/trendyent/v/34334952

50 minute mark when they are talking about whether or not heroes will be paid or free.

get off it.... without something to make them money DD2 will be DDCanceled by the end of FY16.

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@Andurian quote:

It isn't the first time they've telegraphed breaking their promises.  In the devstream where they previewed the limited edition skeleton skins, they said they wouldn't be coming back.  Said it many times, in fact.  Then in the devstream before last they tell us that maybe they'll bring them back if they can do it in a cool way.

If that's the way I'll never buy a single costume again. Simple as that.

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Pets could already be pay to win, who knows if they will make a premium pet that comes with the dragolich skill in the future(or something even more powerful without a free counterpart), they do have there own abilitys. Wether a pet is legendary rank or not really doesnt matter until the evolution ascends further than it has already and there dps reaches higher numbers.

At the end of the day Trendy will do what they like,  people who enjoy the game will keep on enjoying it, maybe some will stop purchasing and supporting it, maybe they will just say they will but really they wont. But telling everyone your gonna make a game that has no P2W draws in players then going back on your word drives them away and heroes are p2w and paying for content they should just bring back dlc packs at the same price as rocket leagues if thats the case. (rocket leagues dlc's are half the price of a costume)

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@huntn4it quote:


@Tristaris quote:

Don't get me wrong about the title, new heroes would be nice, and it'll be a nice change of pace especially in regards to providing more variety than we've been stuck with, but it doesn't come without concerns...

I can't recall where it was posted, but if I recall correctly, isn't each hero going to have a price tag? I am not that thrilled about it, honestly. I feel that the game as a core has many more issues (and throwing heroes at it, just feels like it's compounding on that fact.) Also, I feel that it kind of goes against the "no advantages being sold for money" portion. If it were hero skins, it'd be differently, but a whole new set of towers kind of does provide an in game advantage. Right? How would it not? 

Let me put it this way, you cannot buy a guaranteed legendary pet for money, due to it being an advantage, but a totally new hero, is different? I'd love to know the thought process behind this. I'm not complaining about a price tag, because hey, I believe it's good to support a company (hell, my account has quite a bit of money in it, and there still isn't anything in regards to the tower skins...)

Maybe I'm wrong in it, maybe some heroes will be free, but I thought in a devstream that it was stated they would be paid, and I'm not liking it.

Anyone care to clarify? I'm open to the thought process behind it. 

PS: http://www.twitch.tv/trendyent/v/34334952

50 minute mark when they are talking about whether or not heroes will be paid or free.

get off it.... without something to make them money DD2 will be DDCanceled by the end of FY16.

For me the issue isn't about the money. I'm sure others feel the same way about me in terms of spending money to support the game. My issue is the blurred lines when it suits them. https://dungeondefenders.com/2/topic/123299/the-current-problem-with-premium-pets?page=3#1151120

 My point is that if they do decide on monetizing heroes then I really don't want the P2W advantage argument coming into play for something as trivial as the dps difference between a legendary pet and non-legendary pet.

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@huntn4it quote:


@Tristaris quote:

Don't get me wrong about the title, new heroes would be nice, and it'll be a nice change of pace especially in regards to providing more variety than we've been stuck with, but it doesn't come without concerns...

I can't recall where it was posted, but if I recall correctly, isn't each hero going to have a price tag? I am not that thrilled about it, honestly. I feel that the game as a core has many more issues (and throwing heroes at it, just feels like it's compounding on that fact.) Also, I feel that it kind of goes against the "no advantages being sold for money" portion. If it were hero skins, it'd be differently, but a whole new set of towers kind of does provide an in game advantage. Right? How would it not? 

Let me put it this way, you cannot buy a guaranteed legendary pet for money, due to it being an advantage, but a totally new hero, is different? I'd love to know the thought process behind this. I'm not complaining about a price tag, because hey, I believe it's good to support a company (hell, my account has quite a bit of money in it, and there still isn't anything in regards to the tower skins...)

Maybe I'm wrong in it, maybe some heroes will be free, but I thought in a devstream that it was stated they would be paid, and I'm not liking it.

Anyone care to clarify? I'm open to the thought process behind it. 

PS: http://www.twitch.tv/trendyent/v/34334952

50 minute mark when they are talking about whether or not heroes will be paid or free.

get off it.... without something to make them money DD2 will be DDCanceled by the end of FY16.

You're absolutely blind if you think my concern is about money. 

In fact you're so far out in left field, you should think about your posts a bit more clearly, before you voice an opinion, while trying to tell someone to do something. 

It's not about money. It's never been about money. It's about what I, the consumer, think about a game I am quite passionate about, and wanting to see its success, and want to see the sequel to DD1, do as well or even better than it has. 


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@Tristaris quote:


@huntn4it quote:


@Tristaris quote:

Don't get me wrong about the title, new heroes would be nice, and it'll be a nice change of pace especially in regards to providing more variety than we've been stuck with, but it doesn't come without concerns...

I can't recall where it was posted, but if I recall correctly, isn't each hero going to have a price tag? I am not that thrilled about it, honestly. I feel that the game as a core has many more issues (and throwing heroes at it, just feels like it's compounding on that fact.) Also, I feel that it kind of goes against the "no advantages being sold for money" portion. If it were hero skins, it'd be differently, but a whole new set of towers kind of does provide an in game advantage. Right? How would it not? 

Let me put it this way, you cannot buy a guaranteed legendary pet for money, due to it being an advantage, but a totally new hero, is different? I'd love to know the thought process behind this. I'm not complaining about aprice tag, because hey, I believe it's good to support a company (hell, my account has quite a bit of money in it, and there still isn't anything in regards to the tower skins...)

Maybe I'm wrong in it, maybe some heroes will be free, but I thought in a devstream that it was stated they would be paid, and I'm not liking it.

Anyone care to clarify? I'm open to the thought process behind it. 

PS: http://www.twitch.tv/trendyent/v/34334952

50 minute mark when they are talking about whether or not heroes will be paid or free.

get off it.... without something to make them money DD2 will be DDCanceled by the end of FY16.

You're absolutely blind if you think my concern is about money. 

In fact you're so far out in left field, you should think about your posts a bit more clearly, before you voice an opinion, while trying to tell someone to do something. 

It's not about money. It's never been about money. It's about what I, the consumer, think about a game I am quite passionate about, and wanting to see its success, and want to see the sequel to DD1, do as well or even better than it has. 


Highlighted some key points in your OP for you to see which of us is blind.


What's the big deal with DLC costing money, anyway?  Want free? Play vanilla characters on vanilla maps.  Want DLC?  Support the developers with your cash.

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