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Hearty Blockade - Preview of Next Week's Change

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@WHHWZ quote:

Spike Blockade cost you 25% extra DU and not 50%. Spike Blockade DU of 30 and Dummy/Arcane Barrier cost DU of 20.

Uh.... math? Spike Blockade is 30 DU. Arcane Barrier and Training Dummy are 20 DU. Spike Blockade is 10 more than Dummy/Barrier. 10 is 50% of 20. Therefore Spike Blockade is 50% more DU than barrier/dummy. how do you get 25%?

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@Hom-Sha-Bom quote:


@WHHWZ quote:

Spike Blockade cost you 25% extra DU and not 50%. Spike Blockade DU of 30 and Dummy/Arcane Barrier cost DU of 20.

Uh.... math? Spike Blockade is 30 DU. Arcane Barrier and Training Dummy are 20 DU. Spike Blockade is 10 more than Dummy/Barrier. 10 is 50% of 20. Therefore Spike Blockade is 50% more DU than barrier/dummy. how do you get 25%?

He set his calculator from scientific to girl mathematical calculations.

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@Aheadatime quote:


@gigazelle quote:

Should passives really be a necessity to make walls worth building? Going one step further, should passives in general be required to make a given defense worth building?

Yeah the answer to this is no. I think most of the people who would say yes to this question would also turn around and say they don't like the hero deck. Yet, the more game-changing passives are, the less flexible your hero is. The less flexible your hero is, the more heroes you need for a diverse build. The more heroes you need, the more restrictive the hero deck becomes.

Hero deck aside, I don't get why these passives couldn't just be integrated into a sphere system or mastery system for all to obtain without farming.

I used to think passives were cool, because it added an element to the game that wasn't there before. As time went on I started to really dislike the way they are implemented. I totally agree with all of what these two are saying. Especially after the patch that fragmented passives all over loot types. I am on board with the move of passives to spheres. This is just super basic but why not have these passives into spheres. Make those spheres fall into categories for this example offense and defense then put passive boosters on loot. Like maybe 3% boost offensive spheres.

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@Chappyy quote:

This is just super basic but why not have these passives into spheres. Make those spheres fall into categories for this example offense and defense then put passive boosters on loot. Like maybe 3% boost offensive spheres. 

This idea sounds really good tbh.

But... There needs to be a challenge in unlocking all the "spheres" then. If we had all spheres unlocked simply by gold or lvl it would be even worse than the current system.

If we keep the current lvl and gold system and change the entire passive thing into spheres, we would be left with basically 4 different passives... Hero offensive, Hero defensive, Tower offensive, Tower defensive, simply having a passive that boost Hero def by lets say maximum 5% on each item, it would be a real minor change, except we would only need to have 1 passive on each item really (kinda like pre this patch).

I still think this game should be more about your items than skills (as in skillsystem, spheres etc.)

As i said first, i do like the idea of changing the sphere system a lot and changing current passives, but a "fix" won't be in place for that and sadly a major overhaul is probably not gonna happen :(

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@DKperfection quote:

If we keep the current lvl and gold system and change the entire passive thing into spheres, we would be left with basically 4 different passives... Hero offensive, Hero defensive, Tower offensive, Tower defensive.


What do you think about the passives listed on the second post of this thread?

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@Chappyy quote:

I used to think passives were cool, because it added an element to the game that wasn't there before. As time went on I started to really dislike the way they are implemented. 


Yeah I felt the same way when I first picked this game up after a long break. "Oh nice, they've implemented passives on the gear. This will make them super interesting and diverse". A few weeks later, I've condensed everything to frosty, purge, and hearty. Well.. lol time to try to decipher why this is happening and bring it to attention.

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@DKperfection quote:


@Chappyy quote:

This is just super basic but why not have these passives into spheres. Make those spheres fall into categories for this example offense and defense then put passive boosters on loot. Like maybe 3% boost offensive spheres. 

This idea sounds really good tbh.

But... There needs to be a challenge in unlocking all the "spheres" then. If we had all spheres unlocked simply by gold or lvl it would be even worse than the current system.

If we keep the current lvl and gold system and change the entire passive thing into spheres, we would be left with basically 4 different passives... Hero offensive, Hero defensive, Tower offensive, Tower defensive, simply having a passive that boost Hero def by lets say maximum 5% on each item, it would be a real minor change, except we would only need to have 1 passive on each item really (kinda like pre this patch).

I still think this game should be more about your items than skills (as in skillsystem, spheres etc.)

As i said first, i do like the idea of changing the sphere system a lot and changing current passives, but a "fix" won't be in place for that and sadly a major overhaul is probably not gonna happen :(

I think you would have to add this to the current passive system.  This still keeps the need to choose what spheres you put on and what trade offs you are willing to make. Since most of these passives now are meant to be used to complete nightmare modes why not make them rewards for completing maps, challenges or something like that in nightmare 1. This is an intro to nightmare while presenting what you will need to move further into endgame.

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@Aheadatime quote:


@DKperfection quote:

If we keep the current lvl and gold system and change the entire passive thing into spheres, we would be left with basically 4 different passives... Hero offensive, Hero defensive, Tower offensive, Tower defensive.


What do you think about the passives listed on the second post of this thread?

They seem well thought out and actually pretty nice. But the tower passives you want to move to a skilltree still have to be "gated" in some way, so it's not possible to get all the tower passives you wan't simply by either lvl'ing or earning some form of currency.

What Chappy said about unlocking passives by completing maps is something i would LOVE to see.

I mean if each passive had different tiers lets say 10 tiers, you could unlock up to 6 tiers by simply lvl'ing up and spending gold, but the last 4 tiers would be unlocked by doing a specific map on NM mode, so to get tier 7 you do the map on NM1, to get tier 8 you do same map on NM2 and so on till you get the max tier by doing the map on NM4 and maybe also add a small bonus effect when the passive reach tier 10.

If each passive's max tiers were unlocked by doing a specific map on NM, it would also encourage people to play different maps :)

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i think its a good change makes it easyer to find gear faster 

well of corse sucks a bit for players that already farmed over countless hours there gear but well its still alpha so thats a thing that can happen


and to the other guys that are complaining about losing there tank

i did not read a thing that hh/dh stats will be removed from rng it will be still possible to farm those items and when they going to improve hero health in future patches it might be even a buff for that build making the squire even more tanky than he is atm without making the blockades totaly overpowered


and personal i realy hope they find a way to combine wall/harpoon builds in a usfull way in future than as much as i loved harpoons in dd1 at dd2 they are kinda to expensiv for wath they can do. still good during your way to 50 (and better gear since u need the range at first when u dont have the right passives for your towers) but usless when it comes to endgame

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@Chappyy quote:

I used to think passives were cool, because it added an element to the game that wasn't there before. As time went on I started to really dislike the way they are implemented. I totally agree with all of what these two are saying. Especially after the patch that fragmented passives all over loot types. I am on board with the move of passives to spheres. This is just super basic but why not have these passives into spheres. Make those spheres fall into categories for this example offense and defense then put passive boosters on loot. Like maybe 3% boost offensive spheres.

This is how I'd like to see things organized:

  • Anything that alters the mechanics of a defense (like splody harpoons, purge evil, or frosty power), make them a separate defense. I really think this is a super-easy opportunity to introduce new heroes regularly, since new defense mechanics are added every update. If that's not feasible, at a MINIMUM they should be an uber sphere. And if they're an uber sphere their traits cannot persist. Either you have flamebursts or flamethrowers; not both. Perhaps it'd be kinda neat to have harbinger tokens we could use to purchase the harbinger passives, and each time a boss is released, they have their own tokens we can use to exchange for their ubers and a mini version of them as a pet egg.
  • The only passives on weapons are the ones that modify the weapon itself, such as the betsy weapons or onslaught wave 15 weapons. I would LOVE to see more of these in the game, in fact if you made sure that all unique weapons like this could be used at all stages of the game and were all equally viable, that would introduce a crap-ton of replay value.
  • The only passives on gear would be gambits, like +10% damage with -10% attack speed or similar things like that. Make sure they're actual gambits, not a valuable 'give' w/ a worthless 'take'. The give and take must both be valuable. For the record, the serenity aura gambit is not a gambit since it can still easily survive an entire wave without investing anything in defense health.
  • All remaining passives like jackpot, construction etc. would all become skill spheres. You get to choose which utility bonuses you play with as a hero.

What you'd end up with is a system where there's a place for everything and everything is in its place. No more convolution as to what is a passive and what is a skill sphere, and hero defenses can be balanced much easier around each other when ubers are sidegrades instead of upgrades.

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@gigazelle quote:


@Chappyy quote:

I used to think passives were cool, because it added an element to the game that wasn't there before. As time went on I started to really dislike the way they are implemented. I totally agree with all of what these two are saying. Especially after the patch that fragmented passives all over loot types. I am on board with the move of passives to spheres. This is just super basic but why not have these passives into spheres. Make those spheres fall into categories for this example offense and defense then put passive boosters on loot. Like maybe 3% boost offensive spheres.

This is how I'd like to see things organized:

  • Anything that alters the mechanics of a defense (like splody harpoons, purge evil, or frosty power), make them a separate defense. I really think this is a super-easy opportunity to introduce new heroes regularly, since new defense mechanics are added every update. If that's not feasible, at a MINIMUM they should be an uber sphere. And if they're an uber sphere their traits cannot persist. Either you have flamebursts or flamethrowers; not both. Perhaps it'd be kinda neat to have harbinger tokens we could use to purchase the harbinger passives, and each time a boss is released, they have their own tokens we can use to exchange for their ubers and a mini version of them as a pet egg.
  • The only passives on weapons are the ones that modify the weapon itself, such as the betsy weapons or onslaught wave 15 weapons. I would LOVE to see more of these in the game, in fact if you made sure that all unique weapons like this could be used at all stages of the game and were all equally viable, that would introduce a crap-ton of replay value.
  • The only passives on gear would be gambits, like +10% damage with -10% attack speed or similar things like that. Make sure they're actual gambits, not a valuable 'give' w/ a worthless 'take'. The give and take must both be valuable. For the record, the serenity aura gambit is not a gambit since it can still easily survive an entire wave without investing anything in defense health.
  • All remaining passives like jackpot, construction etc. would all become skill spheres. You get to choose which utility bonuses you play with as a hero.

What you'd end up with is a system where there's a place for everything and everything is in its place. No more convolution as to what is a passive and what is a skill sphere, and hero defenses can be balanced much easier around each other when ubers are sidegrades instead of upgrades.

See I just come up with the basic shell and you smart people do all that hard thinking stuff. I will say please don't ever gambit things like attack dmg vs attack speed. Those are two things that can cancel each other out for DPS and I don't feel like getting my calculator out every time a piece drops to seep if the DPS is better with the speed vs dmg. Let's stick to things like more dmg vs tower HP or other so called 90 deg impacts vs 180 deg.


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@Chappyy quote:

See I just come up with the basic shell and you smart people do all that hard thinking stuff. I will say please don't ever gambit things like attack dmg vs attack speed. Those are two things that can cancel each other out for DPS and I don't feel like getting my calculator out every time a piece drops to seep if the DPS is better with the speed vs dmg. Let's stick to things like more dmg vs tower HP or other so called 90 deg impacts vs 180 deg.

Actually, gambits between damage, attack speed, and range are exactly the gambits I want to see on gear. It would be less about maximizing DPS and more about maximizing their utility. For example, would you rather have a serenity aura that gives only a trickle of health but is so huge you only need one to cover the entire map, or would you rather a serenity aura that instantly gives you full health but is so small it can only fit one hero at a time? Both of them would have their strengths and weaknesses, and I could easily see both being used late game.

Defense HP being in a gambit completely destroys the point of even having a gambit in the first place; all that would do is encourage -health +damage "gambits" on towers while you have a separate hero with +health -damage "gambits" on walls. Gambits are meant to be give/take, so having it on damage/speed/range would make the most sense.

If a damage/health gambit existed, it would have to be implemented in such a way that genuinely affected its reliability factor; for example, huntress traps would be guaranteed to run out of charges mid-wave or one single stray drakin fireball could destroy a tower.

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@gigazelle quote:


@Chappyy quote:

See I just come up with the basic shell and you smart people do all that hard thinking stuff. I will say please don't ever gambit things like attack dmg vs attack speed. Those are two things that can cancel each other out for DPS and I don't feel like getting my calculator out every time a piece drops to seep if the DPS is better with the speed vs dmg. Let's stick to things like more dmg vs tower HP or other so called 90 deg impacts vs 180 deg.

Actually, gambits between damage, attack speed, and range are exactly the gambits I want to see on gear. It would be less about maximizing DPS and more about maximizing their utility. For example, would you rather have a serenity aura that gives only a trickle of health but is so huge you only need one to cover the entire map, or would you rather a serenity aura that instantly gives you full health but is so small it can only fit one hero at a time? Both of them would have their strengths and weaknesses, and I could easily see both being used late game.

Defense HP being in a gambit completely destroys the point of even having a gambit in the first place; all that would do is encourage -health +damage "gambits" on towers while you have a separate hero with +health -damage "gambits" on walls. Gambits are meant to be give/take, so having it on damage/speed/range would make the most sense.

If a damage/health gambit existed, it would have to be implemented in such a way that genuinely affected its reliability factor; for example, huntress traps would be guaranteed to run out of charges mid-wave or one single stray drakin fireball could destroy a tower.

I think you miss read dmg for range.

I see what you're saying but your initial example is what I was talking about. The trade off of size vs amount is great because it is two seperate values. Tower speed effects dps and defence pwr effects dps so every time you have to go and look at the curve of when speed falls off vs power. Average players are going to start asking for tool tips to tell them what the dps is so they don't have to do the math.

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I love the new Hearty Blockade you are suggesting!


The old Hearty Blockade was awful, it made my squire into a "one trick gimp" that can't do anything but make walls.

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Great change as it allows for versatility but why remove the hero health + defense health combination entirely? I liked playing my waller as a tank when I wanted to loot for him..now I can't :(

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@Nodens quote:

Great change as it allows for versatility but why remove the hero health + defense health combination entirely? I liked playing my waller as a tank when I wanted to loot for him..now I can't :(

Indeed, they should have keep it. It is viable to do DH/HH with HB/harden/Nullify passives. That would have been great, instead of trying DH/DP with harpoons lol. I'm still going to try that hybrid with harpoons though ;)

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Only reason I would want my waller with def power would be to be able to play onslaught without repairing traps all the time on the higher waves.. In my opinion the old waller build with hero health allowed you to tank effectively/hold mobs on traps making it the most useful builder to have in a match.

I guess the main problem is that we can't select who to loot for, the hero deck + loot for current hero only messed that up compared to DD1. If I was able to loot for my waller squire while playing my dps hero, I'd take def power on HB items anyday. But currently you have to bring a builder in a match in order to loot so hero health for the waller squire and I'm the opposite of useless..


On one last sidenote, it's funny that a patch that aims to bring more variety to the squire setups, actually kills a useful one..

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What about all the guys that spent countless hours and immense effort to get their Waller Squire based on the Hero Health aspect of the passive buff?  I am waiting for the download of new patch to finish so i can find out the reality of what has happened.  Fingers crossed but not much hope...

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