Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Trendy Brett

Hearty Blockade - Preview of Next Week's Change

Recommended Posts


@Zebrahash quote:

I don't mind having to farm another new set but I do have one question, Will the shield get Defense Health Stat?

My guess would be hearty could still roll on it, but that's it. The shields primary roll is to make the squire tankier, not the towers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That suggestion did come up but whether or not it happens is in the air.  Can't make any promises one way or the other as we are still tinkering and testing.  (hell even if I did know I couldn't say so lol)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Trendy Brett quote:

A few more updates will accompany this change internally:

  • Null Void (for Training Dummy) will provide more health to the Training Dummy
  • Arcane Resilience (for Arcane Barrier) will provide more health to the Arcane Barrier
  • We've also increased the minimum value of these stats, so the range of rolls is slightly more favorable

We're hoping to make the 'which barricade to use' competition a little more interesting with this patch. We've run a few tests on each of the barricades, and they can all achieve very high health values under their new respective formulas.

Also to note, we currently do not have plans to buff Splody Harpoon, but we are looking into seeing how it interacts/stacks with other Ballista-improving passives (namely Speedy Harpoon). Buffs may be in order, but we're primarily focusing on barricade parity for this patch and at  loosening the restrictions on Squire builders.

Why not just have a passive that increases health of all of hte above or at least arcane barrier,  Do you guys really wanna saturate passives with 3 types of walls.  On that note for the barrier... Can enemies still walk bye after its exploded?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Trendy Brett quote:

A few more updates will accompany this change internally:

  • Null Void (for Training Dummy) will provide more health to the Training Dummy
  • Arcane Resilience (for Arcane Barrier) will provide more health to the Arcane Barrier
  • We've also increased the minimum value of these stats, so the range of rolls is slightly more favorable

And Poison Dart Tower??? Why isn't that tower getting some love. I have a nearly maxed one and I hardly believe it can go more then 230-40k HP. I am currently at 314% towering poison on the 320% possible with 4123 DH and I only have 205k HP on it. 

It would be at least better if the hp boost on the monk's boost aura (with the large sphere) could buff the PDT's max Health.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At first I liked this idea, but the more I think about it, the more I want it to stay as it is now.

Scaling off of Hero Health allowed you to have tanky walls and a tanky hero. You could run out into the lanes and taunt the enemies, take the hits, and make them take extra damage from defenses. Changing this to allow "hybrid" builds wouldn't solve anything. A hybrid squire builder would never work because there are way too many passives to collect, it's literally impossible to get them all because there's a hard cap of 3 passives per item. Even if we keep things how they are now, you still have to decide if you want your builder squire to specialize on Spike Blockade, Cannonball Tower, or Ballista. Trying to make a hybrid builder would only compromise all of your towers.

If you wanted strong walls you would need Defense Health and Hearty Blockade. Maybe Automation if it was ever to be made useful but currently it's pretty useless. So that right there takes up 1/2 of your stats per item and 1/3 of your passives per item. We're left with only 1 stat and up to 2 passives per item. But let's look at what you would need for effective Cannonballs/Ballistas:

  • Defense Power
  • Defense Crit Chance

Oops, you can't have both because you already need Defense Health for your Spike Blockades. I guess you have to go with Defense Power. So already your tower DPS is not as strong as it could be because you have to sacrifice crit damage.

  • Shellshock
  • Iron Core
  • Black Arrow
  • Defense Crit Chance
  • Speedy Harpoon
  • Splody Harpoon
  • Vector Corrector

There's just no way you can possibly get all of the stats and passives you would need for an effective hybrid build. Even with perfect RNG it wouldn't matter. The limiting factor is purely because of the number of stats and passives that can roll on an item.

If you can't build an effective hybrid then what is the point of changing the build? There's no benefit to it but on the negative side we lose the proven effective tanky wall squire build. The fix that I would like to see is Defense Health + Hero Health + Hearty Blockade drop more often rather than trying to allow hybrid builds that wont be good enough for NM4 content.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@Trendy Brett quote:

A few more updates will accompany this change internally:

  • Null Void (for Training Dummy) will provide more health to the Training Dummy
  • Arcane Resilience (for Arcane Barrier) will provide more health to the Arcane Barrier
  • We've also increased the minimum value of these stats, so the range of rolls is slightly more favorable

We're hoping to make the 'which barricade to use' competition a little more interesting with this patch. We've run a few tests on each of the barricades, and they can all achieve very high health values under their new respective formulas.

Why is Poison Dart Tower (Towering Poison) being left out of the discussion? You guys told us that build was going to turn PDTs into blockades, but they are a joke as blockades.

I like that we will have more options for walls, but 2 of those options are on the same hero.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am absolutely in favor of moving away from defenses getting health from hero health. It is most definitely a step in the right direction in regards to the current status of the game. However from a long term perspective I really don't like the fact that passives are required to make walls viable.

Couple questions as well:

  • Is the new hearty blockade passive going to be on all armor/relics like it is now, or is it going to be its own weapon?
  • If it's still going to be on gear, does this mean that some viable walls will only require one passive, while others require 5?

I know everyone has their own ideal versions of what they want gear to look like, but there's a much larger issue at hand here than just moving hearty blockades from hero health to defense health.

Should passives really be a necessity to make walls worth building? Going one step further, should passives in general be required to make a given defense worth building?

The answer to these questions is where my ideal of what I want gear to look like strays from Trendy's ideal. I want mechanic-altering passives (like splody harpoon and purge evil) to be sidegrades to a defense, not upgrades. Passives being direct upgrades makes fine-tuning difficulty a paradox, and I mean this in every way possible.

For example, say I am breaking into NM1 and I am using the arcane barrier as part of my build. With the passive, my barriers are 100K; without them they are 50K. My ipwr is EXACTLY the same, with a 100% difference in barrier health - that's a huge deal. With that said, is enemy damage scaled around walls that are 50K, or 100K? If enemy damage is scaled around 50K walls, the mere fact that you have the passive makes the game too easy. If enemy damage is scaled around 100K walls, the game becomes unnecessarily difficult for anyone who does not have the passive, effectively making it a requirement to have.

I hope it's not too late to change the fundamental design of skill spheres and passives, but I'd really like to at least see them organized in such a way that can make difficulty relatively balanced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@gigazelle quote:

Should passives really be a necessity to make walls worth building? Going one step further, should passives in general be required to make a given defense worth building?

Yes.

Also, I think don't think you understand what iPWR means. It is not a numeric representation of how good you and your towers are. It is nothing more than a seed for what values you can roll.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@gigazelle quote:

I am absolutely in favor of moving away from defenses getting health from hero health. It is most definitely a step in the right direction in regards to the current status of the game. However from a long term perspective I really don't like the fact that passives are required to make walls viable.

Couple questions as well:

  • Is the new hearty blockade passive going to be on all armor/relics like it is now, or is it going to be its own weapon?
  • If it's still going to be on gear, does this mean that some viable walls will only require one passive, while others require 5?

I know everyone has their own ideal versions of what they want gear to look like, but there's a much larger issue at hand here than just moving hearty blockades from hero health to defense health.

Should passives really be a necessity to make walls worth building? Going one step further, should passives in general be required to make a given defense worth building?

The answer to these questions is where my ideal of what I want gear to look like strays from Trendy's ideal. I want mechanic-altering passives (like splody harpoon and purge evil) to be sidegrades to a defense, not upgrades. Passives being direct upgrades makes fine-tuning difficulty a paradox, and I mean this in every way possible.

For example, say I am breaking into NM1 and I am using the arcane barrier as part of my build. With the passive, my barriers are 100K; without them they are 50K. My ipwr is EXACTLY the same, with a 100% difference in barrier health - that's a huge deal. With that said, is enemy damage scaled around walls that are 50K, or 100K? If enemy damage is scaled around 50K walls, the mere fact that you have the passive makes the game too easy. If enemy damage is scaled around 100K walls, the game becomes unnecessarily difficult for anyone who does not have the passive, effectively making it a requirement to have.

I hope it's not too late to change the fundamental design of skill spheres and passives, but I'd really like to at least see them organized in such a way that can make difficulty relatively balanced.

Heh considering the passive is tied to other spread passives on other heroes... yeah not being condensed without a major overhaul.  This is merely a hotfix, not a redesign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@alexstonge25 quote:


@๖ۣۜPhoenixX quote:

 Can enemies still walk bye after its exploded?

Yes. 

Have you actually experienced this? Only reason I'm asking is because I haven't seen a leak except from mobs that totally ignored the barrier in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If enemies start crowding around the barrier to attack it, when it explodes, will propel enemies towards your other defenses. Since the barrier loses aggro upon exploding, the mobs then start attacking towers.

If you have two walls up side by side so they can only attack the barrier(s) from the front, then it will only propel enemies backward when one of them explodes, making it impossible to slip past. However, it is unrealistic to keep up with repairing two walls in one lane in NM4, This means that no matter how good the wall is, it's not going to see any play time in NM4 because of its reliability factor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@gigazelle quote:

If enemies start crowding around the barrier to attack it, when it explodes, will propel enemies towards your other defenses. Since the barrier loses aggro upon exploding, the mobs then start attacking towers.

If you have two walls up side by side so they can only attack the barrier(s) from the front, then it will only propel enemies backward when one of them explodes, making it impossible to slip past. However, it is unrealistic to keep up with repairing two walls in one lane in NM4, This means that no matter how good the wall is, it's not going to see any play time in NM4 because of its reliability factor.

It should be noted that not all enemies push back (bosses, the BIGGEST reason shields take damage don't at all).  Some lanes even rng grounded so they absolutely won't push back no matter what.

I didn't like this design choice in dd1 and I still don't like it now.  Idc if they give barriers 4x more hp over baras, I still find them extremely inferior thanks to this mechanic.  They however do have some comical uses such as placing ahead of the baras in lane to use as a boss detonation device (when specced for blockade boom) or loading up harbingers platform and having a laugh, but other than that... just no to barriers.  I will console disconnect games if I see one placed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First - 

Why would a tanky builder summon a low damage of ballista with sploody harpoon where it deal a percentage of defense health as explosive damage? A higher Defense Power with Defenese Critical Damage deal much higher than sploody harpoon. Even with 4k Defense Health, it deal roughly 4k damage per explosion and 10k damage lower than pure build Defense Power. It is much better change the passive of sploody harpoon of Defense Health to Defenese Power like Purge Evil. That is how it should be work! Ballista is not a tanky blockade like Poison Tower plus a pure tower squire build wont spend 4k Defense Health on tower build.


Second - 

One good thing about Hearty Blockade with Defense Health and Hero Health is a squire can build a tanky blockade as well tank a lane at the same time. Defense Health with Defense Power for Blockade? Whats for? It deal 1k damage per 3 second awhile the Nightmare monster HP of 400k. Did you see the different outcome there? 


Third - 

Null Void? Arcane Resillence? One word to describe them 'RUBBISH'. Why? Cause their defense health isnt strong as Hunt Tower Poison and Squire Hearty Blockade. If they can't reach up to 300k HP for Nightmare, sorry, it will be useless and untouchable forever. I rather spend 30 DU for Blockade with wide coverage rather than 40 DU for Arcane Barrier and Dummy to get the same coverage as Blockade. It is much better you put 'Void' passive at Blockade rather than on Dummy.


Please don't simply change before check it out

Make a video and show us how POWERFUL the changes before change the whole system

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@keona quote:


@alexstonge25 quote:


@๖ۣۜPhoenixX quote:

 Can enemies still walk bye after its exploded?

Yes. 

Have you actually experienced this? Only reason I'm asking is because I haven't seen a leak except from mobs that totally ignored the barrier in the first place.

Yes I have tested. The barrier quickly reappears, so most of the enemies don't get pass it. However, some might sometimes. Considering the number of time your barrier will lose 25% of its max hp, some enemies will surely get pass it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@gigazelle quote:

Should passives really be a necessity to make walls worth building? Going one step further, should passives in general be required to make a given defense worth building?

Yeah the answer to this is no. I think most of the people who would say yes to this question would also turn around and say they don't like the hero deck. Yet, the more game-changing passives are, the less flexible your hero is. The less flexible your hero is, the more heroes you need for a diverse build. The more heroes you need, the more restrictive the hero deck becomes.

Hero deck aside, I don't get why these passives couldn't just be integrated into a sphere system or mastery system for all to obtain without farming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@roboticaust quote:

Oh god, the angst is real.  Sure gonna be kicking yourself Tuesday when you see that they are all equal now.

:O well then I already thought arcane barriers where on-par with spike blockades so I guess I'll welcome this change. However I feel it's odd that spike blockades cost 50% more du but will have the same hp as dummys/arcane, given if what you said is true.

Also for those who keep saying the arcane barrier is crappy it's not you just have to use it for once in a real match, In actual play they don't leak & haven't for a very long time. Though I suppose I should join the band wagon & shout hate for them so people won't think of using them, that way my build will stay more unique.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@gigazelle quote:

If enemies start crowding around the barrier to attack it, when it explodes, will propel enemies towards your other defenses. Since the barrier loses aggro upon exploding, the mobs then start attacking towers.

If you have two walls up side by side so they can only attack the barrier(s) from the front, then it will only propel enemies backward when one of them explodes, making it impossible to slip past. However, it is unrealistic to keep up with repairing two walls in one lane in NM4, This means that no matter how good the wall is, it's not going to see any play time in NM4 because of its reliability factor.

For me it was always a must to build double walls just to make sure enemies can't slip past.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@topler quote:


@roboticaust quote:

Oh god, the angst is real.  Sure gonna be kicking yourself Tuesday when you see that they are all equal now.

:O well then I already thought arcane barriers where on-par with spike blockades so I guess I'll welcome this change. However I feel it's odd that spike blockades cost 50% more du but will have the same hp as dummys/arcane, given if what you said is true.

Also for those who keep saying the arcane barrier is crappy it's not you just have to use it for once in a real match, In actual play they don't leak & haven't for a very long time. Though I suppose I should join the band wagon & shout hate for them so people won't think of using them, that way my build will stay more unique.

Spike Blockade cost you 25% extra DU and not 50%. Spike Blockade DU of 30 and Dummy/Arcane Barrier cost DU of 20. The reason why Spike Blockade is much better than Dummy nor Arcane Barrier because of the coverage of the width is much wider compare to dummy and arcane barrier. To cover a lane, you need two arcane barrier which cost you 40 DU and need to repair those two wall awhile you can cover a lane with spike blockade which cost you 30 DU with wider coverage. No matter what, dummy/arcane/poison tower wont have the same HP as blockade even in the future cause spike blockade is a pure wall awhile dummy/arcane/poison tower is hybrid of defenese health and defense power. Due to that, its can't have a higher health than blockade. Logically from DD1. Arcane Barrier and Spike Blockade consist a same health if playing with defense health on Freeplay map. Once hearty blockade passive is included, arcane barrier can't beat the Health unless they make it like how Poison Tower - Towering Poison passive where it can have the same health as Blockade. Arcane Barrier is a softshell wall awhile Spike Blockade is a hardshell wall. Try use Arcane Barrier on Nightmare mode, see how weak it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@WHHWZ quote:


@topler quote:


@roboticaust quote:

-snip-

-snip-

-snip-

I solo nm4 with arcane barriers, so yeah they work just fine. Also 50% of 20 is 10, 20+10=30 therefore spike blockades cost 50% more du then arcane barriers & training dummies.

Currently arcane barriers will have 25-50% less hp then their spike blockade counterpart & they already work well. This is why I think it'd be crazy if arcane barriers got the same hp as spike blockades especially when you add in their offensive nature & the lower du cost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@topler quote:


@WHHWZ quote:


@topler quote:


@roboticaust quote:

-snip-

-snip-

-snip-

I solo nm4 with arcane barriers, so yeah they work just fine. Also 50% of 20 is 10, 20+10=30 therefore spike blockades cost 50% more du then arcane barriers & training dummies.

Currently arcane barriers will have 25-50% less hp then their spike blockade counterpart & they already work well. This is why I think it'd be crazy if arcane barriers got the same hp as spike blockades especially when you add in their offensive nature & the lower du cost.

It is even possible to do NM4 without wall cause it is like playing Freeplay even playing NM4 Inc with 10k wall is even possible even without wall is possible too. How? It is depend on Hero DPS as well Traps/Towers DPS but how strong Arcane Barriers is if you play with 4 players mode and 4 kobold suicide at your wall? 3 suicide kobold and left a runner pass thru Arcane Barrier due to loss aggro. Arcane barrier isnt a permanent wall. It just a temporary wall as a cover before it explode. That is why it called as Barrier and that is why Squire wall called as Blockade. A temprorary wall and a permament wall. No matter how high the health is, as long they dont do anything about loss aggro arcane barrier after explode. It will be useless forever. Unless they make like a freeze/stun explosion while the barrier regain back the form and it probably might be useful. If not, it is still nothing to the eyes of a builder. 

if still curious about it, go play onslaught on Kobold Wave. See how strong blockade is and how strong barrier is. Once the barrier lost aggro, you dead as duck cross the highway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look forward to the changes! Looks a lot better than its current incarnation. 

This is the way it should have been from the get go. I might actually have viable walls to progress now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...