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Hearty Blockade - Preview of Next Week's Change

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What I'd like to see is the math on how the new hearty is working - or is it simply the max 5% on items but the HH is switched to DH? If you're making any other changes in how it's calculated or how high the passives can go, we need to know in order to give na informed opinion on the upcoming patch.


People are gonna have to refarm their gear anyway, since HH is just gonna be an unused stat on the waller once again. Assuming all of this works out somehow, we'll be looking for a DP DH items with 5% hearty, 25% automation and 5% def crit chance. Changing the sword from impaling cutter to carl sword would also allow for the void dummy build.

And we'd still need a separate squire for the cannons. Oh and another one for tanking.


Also, while the prospect of having 2 builders in one character is nice, in the end we'll still have just 1 viable builder - because nobody is using ballistas in their current state. Any plans on reworking the poons?

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@westenra quote:

What I'd like to see is the math on how the new hearty is working - or is it simply the max 5% on items but the HH is switched to DH? If you're making any other changes in how it's calculated or how high the passives can go, we need to know in order to give na informed opinion on the upcoming patch.


People are gonna have to refarm their gear anyway, since HH is just gonna be an unused stat on the waller once again. Assuming all of this works out somehow, we'll be looking for a DP DH items with 5% hearty, 25% automation and 5% def crit chance. Changing the sword from impaling cutter to carl sword would also allow for the void dummy build.

And we'd still need a separate squire for the cannons. Oh and another one for tanking.


Also, while the prospect of having 2 builders in one character is nice, in the end we'll still have just 1 viable builder - because nobody is using ballistas in their current state. Any plans on reworking the poons?

Don't sweat it.  I'll be number crunching it tomorrow and relaying feedback.  Ultimately though, it's up to Trendy if they want wall health lowered or raised, but I'll try my best to give input to keep it close to what we have currently.

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@westenra quote:

What I'd like to see is the math on how the new hearty is working - or is it simply the max 5% on items but the HH is switched to DH? If you're making any other changes in how it's calculated or how high the passives can go, we need to know in order to give na informed opinion on the upcoming patch.


People are gonna have to refarm their gear anyway, since HH is just gonna be an unused stat on the waller once again. Assuming all of this works out somehow, we'll be looking for a DP DH items with 5% hearty, 25% automation and 5% def crit chance. Changing the sword from impaling cutter to carl sword would also allow for the void dummy build.

And we'd still need a separate squire for the cannons. Oh and another one for tanking.


Also, while the prospect of having 2 builders in one character is nice, in the end we'll still have just 1 viable builder - because nobody is using ballistas in their current state. Any plans on reworking the poons?

Well, the thing is, the reason traps are so strong is because they're paired with Frost Towers. I can't see anything that can be paired with the Ballista. Unless, they do some weird tower combo with Poison Dart towers. Everything other tower seems to have it's place if that makes sense? I'm mostly excited for the change because, even though it's optimal for Tower Power and Tower Crit damage for cannons, the cannon tower can still be optimal with Tower Damage and Tower Health. That being said, it'd be nice to combine the different hero builds into one. Rather than having 4 different squires (Harpoon, Cannon, Tank and waller) that could be shortened to just one.  It's a nice change for now. I'm sure they'll implement cooler things in the future!

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@Aheadatime quote:

I don't get it. Cades already scale off of Defense HP, so instead of making us farm for a passive that is essentially "your cades now have better scaling", why not just remove the passive altogether, and simply buff the cades? 

This is one of the issues I talk about in my gear thread. What is it bringing to the table outside of an artificial layer of farm time? It was pretty decisive with the Hero HP, as the stat conversion was a unique trait. But %Defense HP converting into Defense HP is.. well.. what?

This is a good point, it really is turning it into just a farm layer. However what it does do is still makes the player have to decide on using that passive as opposed to your suggestion of removing and buffing. That would end with the same cades but with more passives to add. I could take either one I suppose but I do like that this is a step to try and relieve the one trick pony by giving him two tricks ;)

On a side note I have to say I am a bit sad that the one major well working passive is getting even more attention instead of others.

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"Most players are only stacking Defense Health and Hero Health on Squire builders, which makes them ideal for building Spike Blockades, but ill-suited to do just about anything else (especially in Nightmare!)."

I used my Wall squire as tank. He was the one who carried me through nm3 and 4.

"This would allow players to broaden their builds to include other components, like Defense Power and Splody Harpoon, without lowering the total possible health of their Spike Blockades."

For almost every damage dealing defence you need 3 passives, losing one of those would just be a handicap.

"Additionally, this change opens up more avenues for us to increase Hero Health on the Squire and Monk, so we can improve their viability as melee combat heroes at end game. "

Sounds promising

"We recognize this is a big change to a very common and popular passive, which is why we wanted to discuss the change with the community before it goes live. So, before we put this change into a live build, we'd like to hear your thoughts!"

Overall it sounds like an improvement.
It sounds like a welcomed change for most people, but for people like me who have played 1300 + hours of the game and there main char is waller squire. Its a BIG slap in the face!
I spent hundreds of hours farming to get my walls to where they are now.
I really hope trendy doesn't make it all for nothing.

Reroll the Hero Hp stat on hearty gear to DP or something ?

Hopefully im worried over nothing and its all fine ;p




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I'd rather see the hearty drop apply to all walls and become a drop for both apprentice and squire. But this is still a welcomed change as someone already using dh/dp on his squire.

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@roboticaust quote:


@Aheadatime quote:


@roboticaust quote:

Do you want to see frosty power, phoenix flames and karma vortex vanish?

Well.. yeah lol. I mentioned as much in the gear thread. Do you enjoy needing to farm passives in order to get your towers to function optimally? 

No, but a grind component is necessary or everyone would be geared out perfectly in 2 hours.  The passives are the limiter that keeps people grinding away.  As annoying as it is, its kind of a need atm.  Asking for a major overhaul like you did (as cool as it sounded), just isn't going to happen.

What if they came out with The Summoner, and one of his towers was an archer that didn't shoot.. he just stood still. Low HP scaling, so using him as a wall sucks. Sound useless? Now imagine this passive;

Stocked Quiver - Archer shoots arrows at a rate of (X), dealing (X amount of defense power) physical damage.

That's what some of these passives feel like. Yeah, I get that it's an extreme example, but I don't want to have to grind out a tower's function.

- Serenity has a meh heal in a small radius. Passives make it a slow aura, death aura, and nearly double the radius.
- Frostbite is just a decent slow. Add frosty gear and suddenly it's also a buff beam.
 -Spike blockade's scaling is gated by Hearty.
- Harpoon has something like a 5.0 attack speed (that's one shot every 5 seconds..). So there are passives that increase attack speed and damage.

I dunno. To me, passives don't feel like a diverse and engaging system of gameplay. Just feels like they took some of the tower's basic functioning/scaling, and tossed it into the land of RNG. I know very well that there needs to be content to grind, I'm a gamer and this is a super obvious statement. My only point is that so far, it feels.. wrong.

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Passives are just more "basic" stats, to me i don't see any difference from grinding gear in DD1 where you have to get gear with certain stats as well, in DD1 there were just a lot more stats you had to get on the same item. In DD2 those stats are just named passives. Gearing a serenity monk here is like gearing a monk in DD1. In dd1 you want Dmg, range and speed on all items if possible. Here you want the right main stat + passive, there is litterally no difference the way i see it. In DD1 you could even get items that lowered stats, so it's not like Trendy made DD2 rng WAY more extreme.

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Love IT!  So hate that my squire has to be a wall builder only!  I would have no issue refarming gear to use.

I am a PS4 player and welcome this change whole.

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@DKperfection quote:

Passives are just more "basic" stats, to me i don't see any difference from grinding gear in DD1 where you have to get gear with certain stats as well, in DD1 there were just a lot more stats you had to get on the same item. In DD2 those stats are just named passives. Gearing a serenity monk here is like gearing a monk in DD1. In dd1 you want Dmg, range and speed on all items if possible. Here you want the right main stat + passive, there is litterally no difference the way i see it. In DD1 you could even get items that lowered stats, so it's not like Trendy made DD2 rng WAY more extreme.

Two points.

1. It's not the exact same because in DD1 you could upgrade stats, but in DD2 you can't upgrade your passives. You have to farm for hours upon hours and hope for a 1% increase that comes with desired stats.

2. Even if you could upgrade passives, why the change in the first place? Wouldn't it make sense for these overpowered and quite necessary passives to just be installed in a mastery page/sphere system? This way, passives on gear could be reworked into more diverse and less functionally necessary additions.

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This is a big change.  I like it, but again, you are going to irritate a lot of people if you kill their walls from 300k down to 200k.  I get people will just have to refarm... but Trendy did that just a month ago.

Big issues with farming gear for a "waller" or squire anyway, is the fact you "have to play them to get gear" and NM3/4 almost always requires you to be on a DPSer (if you solo).  So we need to be able to play one character while getting gear for others.  This has been discussed for a while and is supposedly in the works...

The second biggest issue is the fact you almost have no other class that can put up walls.  Apprentice walls are not that great, Poison Darts... bah.  I know, I know... someone uses those, but they probably also have very high meta build that kills things before they get to the walls.  Thus more grinding for other character, while not working on your squire.

I get it's a grinding game, I have over 500 hours.  I'm just pointing out that there are some other issues that also need to be looked at.  Trendy created the issue with Smart Loot 2.0, seems to me what they are saying is "Sorry, we are not sure how to fix what we messed up... so we are going to change how this works, thus helping you."

Sorry, just frustrating sometimes.

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No. You can make a battle Squire that can solo even before the 9.5 patch. Useless pure tanks and wallers in battle phase is just as useless as playing any builder class in combat phase. Can't do anything but watch enemies slowly swarm your barricades.

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@dwade123 quote:

No. You can make a battle Squire that can solo even before the 9.5 patch. Useless pure tanks and wallers in battle phase is just as useless as playing any builder class in combat phase. Can't do anything but watch enemies slowly swarm your barricades.

I used to play my waller squire tank all the time. Especially before the harbinger patch semi-broke it somehow.

Used to tank the kobolt lane in gates inc with curse pet no problem.

Even now with dragolich a waller squire tank is still a great asset.(I held the mid lanes of ramparts inc nm4 many times in grp play)

Tank squire wasn't about dps. It was about holding the lane ontop of the traps so they can reset and do their dps to a large group of enemies. Its a great/fun way to play dd2.(no swarming barricades ever)


Im on board with this change simply because it will reduce the grind to get good walls for everyone. But this will suck for the waller squire. 


Everyone things they will get some awesome hybrid squire. You wont! As some one who has a geared cannon squire and plays almost exclusively non frosty/trap builds i can promise you that without other changes a hybrid tower squire is straight up useless in NM4. At least with hero health you can use the waller squire to solo combat phase.  With this change you waller squire will be like all of your other builders...useless during combat phase.


Best case scenario you find gear with DH/DP ironcore/vector/5% hearty(super hard to find) This wont come close to the dps of traps/frosty and wont even be good enough to waste 30 DU on 1 cannon. The current cannon build relies on insane crits and crit dmg. And harpoons are just bad(which would also need crit/crit dmg). 


Be careful what you wish for.

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@Aheadatime quote:

I don't get it. Cades already scale off of Defense HP, so instead of making us farm for a passive that is essentially "your cades now have better scaling", why not just remove the passive altogether, and simply buff the cades? 

This is one of the issues I talk about in my gear thread. What is it bringing to the table outside of an artificial layer of farm time? It was pretty decisive with the Hero HP, as the stat conversion was a unique trait. But %Defense HP converting into Defense HP is.. well.. what?

Wouldn't this passive match other passives now? In the sense of iron core adds more damage to cannons and tripwire adds more damage to traps, this would just add more hp to defenses. I would say this matches the pattern of other passives now

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@Pachipachio quote:

^indeed


This could make tank-wall hybrid squires better though.  Well, if they return the double resist gear

Yeah because you can take pieces with resistances over health to make the tank better if they change the smart loot to work that way for squire.

Also i just checked my own waller(320k T0)  Its almost all hero health 5% gear since it scales better than DH and finding double stat 5% is very rare. So if this patches ill be sitting at like 100k walls :P (don't let that stop you though still a good change)

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I for one am 50/50,  just spent money 2 days ago to get around this and made another squire for walls, (already have a tower squire)  I spent money for no reason I guess which is the first slap in the face.
sure a multi purpose squire might sound nice, DH/DP? heh, still wouldn't use it over DP/DC for building towers since defense crit is basically doubled damage.
So basically the only purpose for DH/DP is increase in barricade dps? maybe help a little with ballista's damage, but still think it'll fall short on damage compared to defense crit. It just feels like you'll be making hero health a useless stat while nerfing barricades health. But hey Don't mind me, these changes won't affect my play at all since I grew my arcane barriers to 280k t1, who knows it might be the new walls, I'm just salty I paid for a new squire for nothing :)

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Nothing like sneaking in and doing some number crunching at the crack of dawn.  So much for sleep lol.

Whelp good news defenders.  Ran some models, deciphered the new hearty's mathematical formula, offered feedback with a new formula and iamisom gave me a digital pat on the back after I passed out >.<  No I can't divulge details, but let's just say everyone's busting their rears to make this a welcomed change.

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A few more updates will accompany this change internally:

  • Null Void (for Training Dummy) will provide more health to the Training Dummy
  • Arcane Resilience (for Arcane Barrier) will provide more health to the Arcane Barrier
  • We've also increased the minimum value of these stats, so the range of rolls is slightly more favorable

We're hoping to make the 'which barricade to use' competition a little more interesting with this patch. We've run a few tests on each of the barricades, and they can all achieve very high health values under their new respective formulas.

Also to note, we currently do not have plans to buff Splody Harpoon, but we are looking into seeing how it interacts/stacks with other Ballista-improving passives (namely Speedy Harpoon). Buffs may be in order, but we're primarily focusing on barricade parity for this patch and at  loosening the restrictions on Squire builders.

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