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Still early access and all trendy has done since then is release a plethora of costumes and worthless pay to skin content. They haven't fixed any problems and aren't listening to the community in over a year now. End game progression is garbage. Loot system is garbage and not rewarding and is just way too grindy. Bosses are a joke. Hero deck ruins the game and creates a meta of frosty apprentice, trap huntress, blockade squire, and purge of evil monk. Pets are absolutely useless and feel like a hassle to level and upgrade. People only play one map endgame which is gates inc. What is onslaught anyway? no one plays it and no one ever will other than for daily and monthly missions. Trying to level characters is just a major grind and is hella boring. Upgrading weapons makes no sense. why do I need to grind maps to get trash loot to expend on upgrading my gear? oh yeah and it takes a lot of gold to do so. Trendy if you want this game to be as successful as DD1 you gotta at least change some of these problems that the community has been telling you about for the past year. 

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I love these "game is dying" threads. You always see them in early access games... I don't know why people can't understand player levels are low because it's early access not because it's dying...

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Well what exactly is early access anymore. I understand the original concept but I think that concept is kind of being abused so to speak. There are so many games in EA on steam, at various stages of development. I've played closed betas that are not as far along as DD2. As stated in many other threads, there is a definite product selling scheme. 

What, at one time used to be a cool idea of getting feedback while getting support cash has turned into the mainstream distribution. There is nothing wrong with it but people have to stop using this as an excuse, especially if you are making in game monitory transaction on a large scale.

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This is no longer early access imo. Early access was over a year ago when I got invited to be a Councilor. You could only playtest once a week if that since the servers weren't up and running yet. We only had one map to play on at first, eventually two or three. There was no leveling system, nor gear. The point was to playtest for bugs, glitches, and general feel of towers/heroes/abilities. 

DD2 as it stands currently feels like something in between open beta and release. Devs don't seem willing to change towers, melee combat, gear, etc. There is a shop that you can use real money on. There are multiple levels, difficulties, etc. Maybe early access has a different definition than I'm thinking, but to me, you don't open your product cycle in early access.

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People should chill more. Even if they sell and earn money while developing the game (that is the current meta in the game industry you can't just keep forcing developers to stay on old models), it is still a game in Alpha. You may not feel like it because you can play everything and they don't restrict you on it, but with that amount of bugs and problems this is clearly an alpha. Also alpha is the time to get the whole base of a game right, which they still work on too.

And yeah these "game is dying" topics are a classic for early access where alot of people play, like braydon says. Heck i even was in one 2 years ago where one guy literally spammed for 1 1/2 years long "the game is dying! The game is dying look at the metrics it is dying" in chat in forum everywhere, daily and obviously the game still goes on. Every game lose playerbase with time, it's normal.

Also the devs do listen to the playerbase alot. But most complainer focus just the parts which they don't like to "proof" that they don't listen... and say "I don't want dis!!" and not looking on what they changed what players asked them for. Sure the Hero deck oh wow, i don't cry about it though.

And before someone comes again with "nah they don't change anything we asked for, so proof it" yeah right... They made monthly pets more powerfull, cause alot wished for it. They made pet lvling easier (food wise) alot wished for it. They made enchanting less costy. They changed the exp/gold stuff for skins because alot didn't liked it how it was. They changed how how maps are played (only on the new maps to test it out probably and to going into the wished direction), players wanted to have multiple ways to solve one map and solve a puzzle and with different builds. Spooky one was a first step in that direction, and Harbinger (even he is easy because of it) is absolut one of these map where you can play with any build and even any char you want. You can do this map easily after you figured out how the mechanics are for it, the first kinda puzzle map. They offering more builds because player wanting more (and probably alot more comming) and yes they are viable (i know someone will come "aah they arn't viable"). The Arcane and dummies working well for walls, cannons are super strong, i see way more lightning aura used then elemental traps, water trap is used too alot of times, even flamethrower apprentices appear more and more. Same goes for heroes and ways to fight with them, slamdunk monks as an example. And they changed alot more duo to player wishes (sorry that i don't have every change in my head for where topics in this forum were made). 

I must say the game is pretty nice, and i am curious on what changes they still make and what new content will come. I had so far a really good time with the game, thousend+ hours and i don't regret it. Met alot of nice people and played together with them. Sure there is alot frustration because some bug fixes take like month or half a year or are forgotten (hopefull they will do the open bug list so it is possible to see what is still open and what they don't know yet), but that is still ... an alpha. No excuse here it is what it is.

The game is good, you just need to stay away from the forum though :D. Then it's pretty fun. And for every player leaving one more bug is added to the game. Currently we have more bugs then players and the amount of bugs is raising, gobu. The goblin population will feed one day on these bugs and get strong enough to overthrow the rule of oger and old ones. They will rule the woods and plains, gobu. And all defender will be defeated and nobody will ever step outside the gates, gobu! We will take over the nice food on special days then and feed all our sisters and brothers with it, the old granny shaman will be so happy! And with an army of 10.000 goblins Sturgis will met her last day! District Liferoot will be free once again, gobu. After i stole all the technology from the defenders we goblins will finaly be able to reach more then 2.000 HP and reach lvl 2! Gobu gob gob, gobu!

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I don't blame people being skeptical about them changing things, people have been complaining about the HD for a couple of years now and still not one thing is done about it.

I'm finding this game less and less enjoyable with the artificial restrictions placed on people. The meta is beyond boring, this game has no strategy involved it's so casualized. The tower balance in this is game is horrendous and that just further shows the HD's flaws.

I want to see what is planned for this year by Trendy and if they still want to ignore the HD issue, then i shall be moving on to other games until something worthy of my time is implemented.

The Summoner would be one, but probably just get the monthly pet until it's addressed.

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@dreamanime quote:

People should chill more. Even if they sell and earn money while developing the game (that is the current meta in the game industry you can't just keep forcing developers to stay on old models), it is still a game in Alpha. You may not feel like it because you can play everything and they don't restrict you on it, but with that amount of bugs and problems this is clearly an alpha. Also alpha is the time to get the whole base of a game right, which they still work on too.

...

Sorry man, any professional developer will tell you this game is not in alpha.  They are simply using the term as a crutch at this point.  At minimum this game is beta.  

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@Injuis quote:


@dreamanime quote:

People should chill more. Even if they sell and earn money while developing the game (that is the current meta in the game industry you can't just keep forcing developers to stay on old models), it is still a game in Alpha. You may not feel like it because you can play everything and they don't restrict you on it, but with that amount of bugs and problems this is clearly an alpha. Also alpha is the time to get the whole base of a game right, which they still work on too.

...

Sorry man, any professional developer will tell you this game is not in alpha.  They are simply using the term as a crutch at this point.  At minimum this game is beta.  

Sorry too, for me this game is clearly way to buggy and still in developement for being in beta stage yet. I am pretty sure alot of professional developers can tell you this too. A beta game should not have so many crash and disconnect issues at all, also a game in beta stage usualy works mostly on bug fixes, which is not the case here. Clearly content is added majorly and adjusted too, leaving bug fixes more open (if they are not hindering the process of testing to much) for later fixing.

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@dreamanime quote:


@Injuis quote:


@dreamanime quote:

People should chill more. Even if they sell and earn money while developing the game (that is the current meta in the game industry you can't just keep forcing developers to stay on old models), it is still a game in Alpha. You may not feel like it because you can play everything and they don't restrict you on it, but with that amount of bugs and problems this is clearly an alpha. Also alpha is the time to get the whole base of a game right, which they still work on too.

...

Sorry man, any professional developer will tell you this game is not in alpha.  They are simply using the term as a crutch at this point.  At minimum this game is beta.  

Sorry too, for me this game is clearly way to buggy and still in developement for being in beta stage yet. I am pretty sure alot of professional developers can tell you this too. A beta game should not have so many crash and disconnect issues at all, also a game in beta stage usualy works mostly on bug fixes, which is not the case here. Clearly content is added majorly and adjusted too, leaving bug fixes more open (if they are not hindering the process of testing to much) for later fixing.

I think we should get away from this "which definition of alpha is correct" thing. The fact is early access has changed how consumers get games so traditional Alpha Beta programs are for the most part, irrelevant. Most EA games sell you a one time access to play the game, in order to help fund development. In some cases there are companies that have no intention of leaving EA and are just going to make a quick buck. Currently DD2 has sold access to the game and has a fully functioning cash shop with an additional steam store shop. I don't think there is anything wrong with this but they are clearly selling a product so I think it is fair to say we can hold them to a higher standard than other EA games. So yes this game is dying mostly because since September the patches have been focused around how to increase profits in the steam and in game stores by creating content and trying to get the revolving door going to make sales. I'm never going to let go of this hero deck thing because it is the best example of something that has been an issue for now over 1 year but it is still untouched because it is tied to money. This doesn't mean the game is dead, dying and dead are not the same. Yes they can turn this thing around and increase the steady player base by going back to fixing the core game functions that are still broken. Ubers are still half*** done, the skill points with soft caps are just a gimmick, multi projectile system that is basically just for looks. Then the creme de la creme Hero Deck, still sticking it to us. These are all things people complain that are making the game not enjoyable to play. I know people like loot but I don't think the average player cares at all about loot if the process to get the loot is more like work than play.


TL/DR this game sure has a lot of ways make money for an early access game. So the game is dying because the changes the community has been yelling for are not happening so players are leaving.

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Hmm I wouldn't say the game is in a crisis of dying soon or anything but I do believe the game doesn't hold players in, by which I mean players leave rather early. I believe the main cause for this is a lack of a real endgame something which I feel is normal considering the games current point of development. I'm sure after trendy does a good look & works on the endgame much like they've done with the early game that we'll see more players staying.

I'll say this though I believe the game went into open alpha too early. I feel that the game should of only went open when it was near beta phase. That way more of the people who joined when it went open would have stayed, that & first opinions matter so some won't come back afterwards.

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@topler quote:

I'll say this though I believe the game went into open alpha too early. 

That's the main problem, I think. From what I heard (at least from some friends) there was quite a hype for DD2 going public. Sadly this killed a part of it's great reputation. Missing matchmaking and according features (although discussed and pointed out since 2014) is essential for a public f2p game.


(At the moment) there's also quite a lack of information. The players are already used to get monthly quests. I have no idea why these use to happen on the 4th of each month - but now we have January and nobody knows anything. This is nothing but killing reputation. A blog post would already satisfy most of the players.

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@topler quote:

Hmm I wouldn't say the game is in a crisis of dying soon or anything but I do believe the game doesn't hold players in, by which I mean players leave rather early. I believe the main cause for this is a lack of a real endgame something which I feel is normal considering the games current point of development. I'm sure after trendy does a good look & works on the endgame much like they've done with the early game that we'll see more players staying.

I'll say this though I believe the game went into open alpha too early. I feel that the game should of only went open when it was near beta phase. That way more of the people who joined when it went open would have stayed, that & first opinions matter so some won't come back afterwards.

Sure end game is an issue but I think that only effects a small number. I would be willing to bet most of the players base, the casual players don't even make it to serious end game before losing interest.

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That's the other edge to the double-edged sword of early access, especially with a F2P game.  On the one hand, you get players in early and get suggestions about how to shape the development of your game.  On the other, the players are only getting an unfinished product with all of the problems that come with that, and you run the risk of losing their interest before the game can fully take shape.   I'm hoping that as the developers flesh out DD2, it'll provide some much-needed longevity to the game and will bring these players back.

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@Chappyy quote:


@topler quote:

Hmm I wouldn't say the game is in a crisis of dying soon or anything but I do believe the game doesn't hold players in, by which I mean players leave rather early. I believe the main cause for this is a lack of a real endgame something which I feel is normal considering the games current point of development. I'm sure after trendy does a good look & works on the endgame much like they've done with the early game that we'll see more players staying.

I'll say this though I believe the game went into open alpha too early. I feel that the game should of only went open when it was near beta phase. That way more of the people who joined when it went open would have stayed, that & first opinions matter so some won't come back afterwards.

Sure end game is an issue but I think that only effects a small number. I would be willing to bet most of the players base, the casual players don't even make it to serious end game before losing interest.

According to steam achievements they loose 42% of their players before level 5.

And 69% before level 15.

2,7% get halfway to 50 with four heroes. 

43% of the player base has not died with a hero.

Who knows if this is even accurate. But from my achievements in game and on steam, they seem accurate. 

Their latest patch was mostly aimed towards early game... Yet they went F2P on a patch that the whole campaign could be face rolled while walking your dog. 

Why they decided to open the flood gates on a obvious broken patch is beyond me. We tried tried to warn them before the steam release, and well that release was not a success either. 

It's a F2P game now, with a cash shop. Charging for skins/unique account features. Players will treat it as a released game. They won't give it a 2nd chance most of the time. As you can clearly see from the achievement charts on steam. 

TrendyBrad Did you even test the patch you decided to launch as a F2P game? A friend of mine got bored after 3 maps. Every tower one shot the enemy. At the 3rd? map there was a boss. It did next to zero damage to him and died in 20 or so seconds. 

I'm just baffled, you released on steam too early and now again with the F2P launch. 

Rushing the game out due to wasting time on the MOBA is not a good idea in 2015, now 2016. Where there has never ever been more free games available to you'r costumers. 

//insert picture of Jean Luc Picard face palming...

If I had stocks in you'r company I would pull my tail between my legs and run... Not knowing or having looked into you'r financial situation. But I cannot imagine it is doing too well. All that is speculation on my part. 

As you are a decent sized dev team, I hardly think you'r investors are laughing on their way to the bank..


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@PandynatorDD quote: 

//insert picture of Jean Luc Picard face palming...


//insert picture of Jean Luc Picard with his hand out....

Why don't you fix the the core mechanics?

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@Chappyy quote:


@PandynatorDD quote: 

//insert picture of Jean Luc Picard face palming...


//insert picture of Jean Luc Picard with his hand out....

Why don't you fix the the core mechanics?

Because we're a small team who just wants to keep the light on in our studio and our families fed through the winter

Wont you think of the kids, please?  

kobold.png

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  • 1 year later...

I realize that this thread it a year old, but it is what came up from a google search as to why the game was still in EA and it is ALL completely relevant to what I would have said in a brand new thread, so it was easier (and more effective) to just post a reply.


Now I remember very little from when I briefly played this game (Only 37 hours total for me) but I remember buying the gunwitch, then quitting the game pretty much right after. I loved DD1, but DD2 had me disappointed right off the bat.  But I DO remember that I was not upset with it, I just assumed it was still EA and it will get better and moved on.  EDIT: I looked into my purchase history on steam and see that I bought the game in Dec 2014 for $19.99, but all of the achievements I have were from Jul 2016. So it seems I bought it, but only played it after it already went F2P at which point I paid for a new hero. Clearly I am a game developers wet dream!


Just accidentally launched this game for the first time since playing it which resulted in me looking into what happened with this game, noticing that it is still EA.  When I actually went into the game I found that I somehow had all my heros at level 50, except for my squire that was level 26 still?? And immediately got the achievement for such (The one that I see was mentioned in PandynatorDD's post over a year ago).  Considering that all of the items in my inventory is in the range of levels 8-12 (the level that my gunwitch was at I imagine) and that my highest achievement was for getting a single hero to lvl 25 (my squire I again imagine) I assume that something happened that ended up with me having maxed heroes??


So my heroes are fully leveled up, without me having done anything to enjoy or earn the process, ok thats fine. So I ignored them and made a new character. First I went to see if there were any games I could join, and searching any game mode, any difficulty, any map there were only 13 game choices with 22 players total at the time of my search, which admittedly was fairly early in the day, but not early enough to justify this poor showing.  This game appears to be straight up dead, not dying. 


But I found this thread by searching for why the game was still EA.  This is a part of what it still says on the Steam Store page:  “We expect the game to remain in Early Access for at least a year after its initial release on Steam (Dec 2014). This enables you, our Steam Community, to Influence the game as we develop it, incorporating many of your ideas along the way.” First things first, update your timeframe for christ sake it's now passed TWO YEARS from initial release. Second, from what I can see the only changes that have been made is adding stuff you can sell, which in and of itself is obviously necessary for a F2P game, but how about fixing the game that people are running away from before trying to get more cash out of the few that remain??


Tl;DR:  It is a joke to still call this an EA game.  That is clearly just a label that allows the Devs to focus more on paid content than core content, and the game itself seems to be horribly devoid of players.  It is not so much dying as decomposing from my, admittedly external, perspective.

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@Bill4364 quote:

I realize that this thread it a year old, but it is what came up from a google search as to why the game was still in EA and it is ALL completely relevant to what I would have said in a brand new thread, so it was easier (and more effective) to just post a reply.


Now I remember very little from when I briefly played this game (Only 37 hours total for me) but I remember buying the gunwitch, then quitting the game pretty much right after. I loved DD1, but DD2 had me disappointed right off the bat.  But I DO remember that I was not upset with it, I just assumed it was still EA and it will get better and moved on.  EDIT: I looked into my purchase history on steam and see that I bought the game in Dec 2014 for $19.99, but all of the achievements I have were from Jul 2016. So it seems I bought it, but only played it after it already went F2P at which point I paid for a new hero. Clearly I am a game developers wet dream!


Just accidentally launched this game for the first time since playing it which resulted in me looking into what happened with this game, noticing that it is still EA.  When I actually went into the game I found that I somehow had all my heros at level 50, except for my squire that was level 26 still?? And immediately got the achievement for such (The one that I see was mentioned in PandynatorDD's post over a year ago).  Considering that all of the items in my inventory is in the range of levels 8-12 (the level that my gunwitch was at I imagine) and that my highest achievement was for getting a single hero to lvl 25 (my squire I again imagine) I assume that something happened that ended up with me having maxed heroes??


So my heroes are fully leveled up, without me having done anything to enjoy or earn the process, ok thats fine. So I ignored them and made a new character. First I went to see if there were any games I could join, and searching any game mode, any difficulty, any map there were only 13 game choices with 22 players total at the time of my search, which admittedly was fairly early in the day, but not early enough to justify this poor showing.  This game appears to be straight up dead, not dying. 


But I found this thread by searching for why the game was still EA.  This is a part of what it still says on the Steam Store page:  “We expect the game to remain in Early Access for at least a year after its initial release on Steam (Dec 2014). This enables you, our Steam Community, to Influence the game as we develop it, incorporating many of your ideas along the way.” First things first, update your timeframe for christ sake it's now passed TWO YEARS from initial release. Second, from what I can see the only changes that have been made is adding stuff you can sell, which in and of itself is obviously necessary for a F2P game, but how about fixing the game that people are running away from before trying to get more cash out of the few that remain??


Tl;DR:  It is a joke to still call this an EA game.  That is clearly just a label that allows the Devs to focus more on paid content than core content, and the game itself seems to be horribly devoid of players.  It is not so much dying as decomposing from my, admittedly external, perspective.

I get where you're coming from but before firing something like this off, you should check the game blog. There you'd find a huge update that will fundamentally change the game is coming down the pipe. An update this huge could not be done for a game post release. It's too drastic...even if it is the right direction for the game. 

Now that said, the game is certainly charging release level prices for gems and in game items and content. That has seemed a bit steep to me. Still...the devs have been releasing new classes and content consistently. The game isn't dying...it's being iterated, which is exactly the reason it still has the early access label. 

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@Bill4364 quote:

I realize that this thread it a year old, but it is what came up from a google search as to why the game was still in EA and it is ALL completely relevant to what I would have said in a brand new thread, so it was easier (and more effective) to just post a reply.


Now I remember very little from when I briefly played this game (Only 37 hours total for me) but I remember buying the gunwitch, then quitting the game pretty much right after. I loved DD1, but DD2 had me disappointed right off the bat.  But I DO remember that I was not upset with it, I just assumed it was still EA and it will get better and moved on.  EDIT: I looked into my purchase history on steam and see that I bought the game in Dec 2014 for $19.99, but all of the achievements I have were from Jul 2016. So it seems I bought it, but only played it after it already went F2P at which point I paid for a new hero. Clearly I am a game developers wet dream!


Just accidentally launched this game for the first time since playing it which resulted in me looking into what happened with this game, noticing that it is still EA.  When I actually went into the game I found that I somehow had all my heros at level 50, except for my squire that was level 26 still?? And immediately got the achievement for such (The one that I see was mentioned in PandynatorDD's post over a year ago).  Considering that all of the items in my inventory is in the range of levels 8-12 (the level that my gunwitch was at I imagine) and that my highest achievement was for getting a single hero to lvl 25 (my squire I again imagine) I assume that something happened that ended up with me having maxed heroes??


So my heroes are fully leveled up, without me having done anything to enjoy or earn the process, ok thats fine. So I ignored them and made a new character. First I went to see if there were any games I could join, and searching any game mode, any difficulty, any map there were only 13 game choices with 22 players total at the time of my search, which admittedly was fairly early in the day, but not early enough to justify this poor showing.  This game appears to be straight up dead, not dying. 


But I found this thread by searching for why the game was still EA.  This is a part of what it still says on the Steam Store page:  “We expect the game to remain in Early Access for at least a year after its initial release on Steam (Dec 2014). This enables you, our Steam Community, to Influence the game as we develop it, incorporating many of your ideas along the way.” First things first, update your timeframe for christ sake it's now passed TWO YEARS from initial release. Second, from what I can see the only changes that have been made is adding stuff you can sell, which in and of itself is obviously necessary for a F2P game, but how about fixing the game that people are running away from before trying to get more cash out of the few that remain??


Tl;DR:  It is a joke to still call this an EA game.  That is clearly just a label that allows the Devs to focus more on paid content than core content, and the game itself seems to be horribly devoid of players.  It is not so much dying as decomposing from my, admittedly external, perspective.


For the heroes all leveled up, you sure you didn't come into some story event ? First map I played when I came back, I had those lv50 heroes all stuffed up (I didn't even unlock them). Just a one time event, it's not real. You're back to your progress when you leave.

You think there are no games because they are all full. Everytime I create one, 3 people join before wave 2.

So yeah, it appears to be dead. Still not, too bad, right ?

Game's economy is one of the best out there. You don't need crystals, period.


Just wait for the update to come out, and try it, rather than speculating. At least your arguments will have some weight, this way.

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I guess I didn't get the memo about the game being dead. I suppose myself and the hundreds of hyped players awaiting this update were all in my head :'(
DAMN YOU TRENDY!!!!!!

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@[UMF] Filthylopez quote:

I guess I didn't get the memo about the game being dead. I suppose myself and the hundreds of hyped players awaiting this update were all in my head :'(
DAMN YOU TRENDY!!!!!!

I am also a hyped player for this update, and I can understand the concern of the game being dead. If nothing changes, it certainly will die. We all hope this will be a great update, but honestly, if they screw that update, the game is pretty much dead. 

However, the update looks promising, so we'll have to see what happens. 

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@[UMF] Filthylopez quote:

I guess I didn't get the memo about the game being dead. I suppose myself and the hundreds of hyped players awaiting this update were all in my head :'(
DAMN YOU TRENDY!!!!!!

Hundreds, where are you getting these numbers?

There used to be thousands of players hyped around the time of this posts creations. This was before the hero deck.

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@In.Session quote:


@[UMF] Filthylopez quote:

I guess I didn't get the memo about the game being dead. I suppose myself and the hundreds of hyped players awaiting this update were all in my head :'(
DAMN YOU TRENDY!!!!!!

Hundreds, where are you getting these numbers?

There used to be thousands of players hyped around the time of this posts creations. This was before the hero deck.

I am going off of the amount of people tuning into devstreams, views on streamers and increase in public games on the PS4 and PC in my experience lately. Not saying the game hasn't been dying as far as player base goes in the past year. But lately there has been an increase and there is major hype for this update.
Just staying hopeful is all :)

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@MushroomCake28 quote:


@[UMF] Filthylopez quote:

I guess I didn't get the memo about the game being dead. I suppose myself and the hundreds of hyped players awaiting this update were all in my head :'(
DAMN YOU TRENDY!!!!!!

I am also a hyped player for this update, and I can understand the concern of the game being dead. If nothing changes, it certainly will die. We all hope this will be a great update, but honestly, if they screw that update, the game is pretty much dead. 

However, the update looks promising, so we'll have to see what happens. 

Yea of course. A lot of long term players like myself have barely played till this update was announced. This may be the last vestige of hope for us. I am just being hopeful and giving the game and company the benefit of the doubt that this is a step in the right direction :)

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