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chaosparadox

Community falling away very fast.

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@alexstonge25 quote:

The main problem with the current game is that there isn't any grip, or no reason to play.

For those of us who played DD1: We should think about (and write here down!) what kept us playing at DD1. Ok, this topic has been discussed a few times, but first it is still a real problem and second it is never wrong to try and get some good and new feedback.


Ok, I farmed a lot in DD1. Somtimes farming got boring because multiplayer is just more fun. I had the possibility to go to the games list and browse through the games if there were people who called their game something like 'need help with xy'. If it was a map/difficulty I could help with I joined and asked if they still needed help etc.


Even when a game is no more challenge it is still a nice activity to help others if the game itself gives you the possibility to do so. Now I can just jump into the same game 10 times, close the game afterwards and play something else.


One of my all-time favorite games failed because the matchmaking was one of the worst ever. It would be sad if the same thing happened to DD2 because the game, the idea and the looks are awesome.

If it was also possible to bring something like comfortable social possibilities into the game - or at least reasons to buy more than 1 costume per hero... the game would be a lot more satisfiable.


If the Tavern Leader feature had been enhanced intead of being deleted (or it is maybe just invisible - because I never see who is some kind of Tavern Leader) this would have been a first step. Yes, everything is server side. That is a good thing. Still... even on server sided games it is possible to give certain permissions to create rooms/lobbies etc. 

...the bad bad kick abusal. Now we have a vote kick and a random multiplayer queue/gamble that feels like a crippled version of DD1's multiplayer feature. If just an ignore list had been added that would have brought a lot of relief. If you become victim of any abusive kick you can add that player to your ignore list. This let you at least know that you will never ever meet that person again. There have been so much good suggestions even more than a year ago.

At DDE we had this friends list that was not working. There was even a not working ignore list (it prevented people from messaging you but not from playing with you). If it had been repaired instead of deleted...


At DDE we had a games/server list that reminded of a minimum port from any mobile device. People complained about that a lot. At DD2 we have nothing like that.

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The most important part of this thread:

THE GAME DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT.

Don't get me wrong, the campaign is SUPER fun. Every time a wipe has happened, leveling up my first hero has always been a positive experience. However, once you start tapping into Nightmare, that's when the fun starts to disappear. When you hit NM4, that fun is pretty much gone.

I've been around long enough to know why the game is not fun and why it doesn't feel right. I could write an entire dissertation on the subject, but the only way I'd sit down and write it is if I knew for a fact that the design team would discuss each and every point at length. The last time I wrote candid and lengthy feedback, all six threads got exactly zero official replies. I know Isom read them since he and I discussed them, but as for the design team, for all I know they skimmed through them and went "huh", and proceeded to continue work on their next build passive.

Want to know why the game isn't fun and why it doesn't feel right in a non-dissertation version? Here are a couple bullet points (not the only ones, but the first ones that come to mind):

  • The game is played like an arm wrestle: Arm wrestle means strength of our towers vs. the strength of incoming enemies. Strength vs. strength involves no strategy, and fosters a single meta of "most damaging defenses + healthiest walls". This meta may change from defense to defense, but we will never escape the single meta as long as strength vs. strength exists. All walls except spike blockades will forever suck until another defense can get more health. All other defenses except traps+frosties will forever suck until another combo can dish out more damage.
  • What I want is a chess game: A game where myself and my defenses are the game pieces, and the Old Ones use cunning tactics to beat me. Sheer strength may be one tactic, but definitely not the only one. Making DD2 more strategy-based and less strength-based would require lots of new enemy types, and the game would introduce new enemies as often as it would new cosmetics and maps. These new enemies would never compound or appear on every map additively, but rather they would be a different tactic each time we play that we would have to take into consideration.
  • Let players opt into the difficulty: Having static difficulties only caters to a very specific audience; the rest think it is too easy or too hard. To resolve this, tie gear ipwr to enemy level, and let players opt into additional challenge elements like threats, resistances, and incursion mechanics. The more challenge elements they opt into, the higher quality loot they get (e.g. mythical and legendary gear). If the player chooses no challenge elements, they can easily AFK content for lots of worn and sturdy loot. This ability to choose would apply across all difficulties. If a player is level 10 and they want to battle 90% resist lanes, they can and are rewarded with low ipwr legendary loot. If a player is level 50 and just wants upgrade fodder, they can choose NM4 without any challenge elements for a bunch of ipwr 650 worn/sturdy loot.
  • Less about the numbers, and more about personal preference: If I have ipwr 700 gear, I should be equally effective in certain situations no matter what hero stats I've chosen to stack. If I'm a DPS app and have hero health + physical resist maxed, I should be able to at least somewhat face-tank ogres. If I'm a DPS squire and have everything into ability power, my sword beam should slice through all common enemies in one hit. I'm sick of only 4/s burst bows being the only viable weapon, sick of monks and squires sucking at DPS combat in general to name just a few. Get rid of the meta, and make all stats on all heroes equally viable. This would require significant changes to how gear is structured, but would be totally worth it in the long run.

The most frustrating part of this is that none of this is new feedback. Some of this is well over a year old and has plenty of community support behind their respective posts. I know for a fact Trendy listens to my feedback, as there are many game mechanics in place right now as a direct result of my feedback. However when it comes to prioritizing the big stuff like wave director, new enemies, and hero deck, those are the things that I feel like fall on deaf ears and as a direct result veteran players suffer.

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I think adding ladders and season in the same way Diablo and Path of Exile have would be a great way to keep the game alive and fun.

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I had this thread linked to me by a friend and felt that I should share my point of view(For the first time on the forums)..

To start, Hi I'm Fosuya - Old school gamer(since 1990) and a DD1 Veteran.

After investing a couple of hundred hours into this game I've formed a very strong opinion on what I find to be good, bad and what's on the bus to crazy-town. This game has a lot of potential yes! and great graphics to boot! So here's my 2 cents worth..


Awkward Social Grouping System.
I find that DD2 is a great game! A true gem hiding in a big ugly rock. With the very random and crazy public games I usually get when doing quick matches I've literally stopped doing public unless I'm boosting them. It's incredibly difficult to find a game running the map you want where you'll know that what you have in your hero deck is going to contribute. The possibilities to actually meet someone with half a brain and the decency to listen is less than getting struck by a meteorite. I'd love to see some form of grouping system where you can organize a group before you get fitted into a game and have to go trough a massive/long loadscreen.
Suggested fix; Bring in DD1 Tavern System or a LFG CHAT.

Secondary stats ruling your play-style.
I also have problems with the hyper-focus that your build is based around your character's secondary stats on gear! Whatever happened to getting BASE stats from your gear and doing the build on your hero? You have the system right there, It's called sphere's! Make em useful.
Suggested Fix; Move the frosty, tripwire etc to sphere's and give us more base stats to play around with on armors like defense range/speed etc.


RNG Monster, even with better loot and Bad droprates on Malthius etc.
About the RNG loot and the low loot chances(malthius inc anyone?), Make special map items be a permanent guarantee and make them specific to a task, DPS secondaries should have DPS primaries right? 
Example, Betsy Huntress Bow with Defense Power? I mean sure granted it's another legendary drop but if anyone went for it they'd be wasting a secondary stat where  they otherwise be able to get something useful for a builder, like the phantom phoenix's.
Suggested Fix; Special maps gets guaranteed one drop. Take inspiration from DD1 and make special items(Phantom Phoenix, Impaling Cutter, Aerial Bane etc.) have intelligently applied stats. DPS BOW WITH DPS STATS, BUILDER WEAPONS WITH BUILDER STATS.


Overboard graphical effects.
The graphics in the game is AMAZING, CUTE and Fun but it's hard to see with the fog over the draw distance!
Not to forget the wall of junk if you're shooting a pile of goblins with a staff or bow from Betsy 4/s.
If anyone know's my gripe with motion blurs, massive particle storms and generalized fuzzy pictures then you'd know what I'm on about. I think the game simply put needs a bit of clarity in it's graphics that's all..
I'm sure other players with lesser GPU's would also thank you!
Suggested Fix; Add a Fog toggle in options available! (Console command - 'Show FOG') and limit the amount of effects possible to render from any single player.


New bugs, Old beetles and Insane lightning cicadas.
First of I would like to mention the mob's being displaced under the core on Greystone Plaza since the winter map update, I'm sure this one is not that hard to fix considering you had a working code for mob spawning and placing in previous builds.

Second I'd like to address the Insane Kobolds ignoring the walls in front of them doing a large bypass only to aim for a lane which originally wasn't even in the pathing. I'm sure the problems with this one is residing in the AI targeting logic and targeting range.

Third I'd like to fry up the shrimp that is with mobs getting stuck trying to path they're way into walls or even of the map. Not that I'm certain where the problem with this one lies but you could easily manage this one with one piece of logic!
   Check position, Have I moved1?
                       1IF NO THEN Is there an enemy 
entity within range2?  
                                     2IF YES THEN ATTACK! 
                                     2IF NO THEN Move to last spline node.
                       1IF YES THEN DO Carry on.

(Sorry for my crappy representation of programming logic.)

To wrap up and this one I don't even have a suggested fix for but, the Intel® CPU bug is driving my computer on the shortcut to the dump. Running DD2 on any of my devices which are using Intel Core® Processors all get stressed to the limit by over-filling all cores with junk threads. Essentially leaving the CPU at 100% all the time the game is active in the foreground of the screen.
Suggested Fix; Take your time and look over these bugs, Yes they're horrible, annoying and some of them down right stupid but if you can get the core game working smoothly then you can focus towards more content! (And we'll thank you when you do!).


Pet Abilities and Leveling.
My issues with the pets are numerous, so how about a list?

  • Pet abilities are horrendously unbalanced, some are complete garbage and others are beyond the divine. Examples, Blue mana vs Any monthly Pet really.
  • The actual use of the majority of pet abilities are rarely viable and unreliable due to the auto aim(more on that in a bit).
  • To level a pet not only once trough the use of assorted reagents, pet food and money but also trough an insane grind, a whopper of 620 completed waves to bring a pets affection from 0 to 60 is ludicrous. You'd spend a rough estimate of 10-11 hours minimum grinding the affection levels alone the fastest possible way. This feels way to much for something that is more 'side' content.
  • Older monthly pet abilities only being available to the rare few and not to be rolled by any newer pets keeps people reluctant to try to get new cute furry friends! And severely limits diversity.
  • Going overboard with the nerf-bat on overpowered abilities feels very harsh! Example, Narwhagon's ability now being weaker than any damage returning elemental shield. "Everything is good in moderation."
  • The lacking of legendary creep pets! Give us more balance in the different pet qualities. The creeper is lacking, the cat has one and the dragon has three! It wouldn't hurt to even those out a bit.
  • 48 Hours of wait for a egg to rot? Really? You couldn't just give us a UI Menu option that allowed us to turn them into shards on demand? Not everyone has the time to grind for hours to get their eggs and then go hatch them the moment they've stopped running maps with people. And on the other side of the fence, most people if I've understood this so far hates the fact that their inventories and these great loot-goblin sacks filled to the brim with just they're just waiting to put to use. (Side note, I do understand that you get your revenue from the in game Gem's and that bags is part of that. But this is not the way for it.)
  • Re-rolling the Stats and Empowerment stats, nice concept! alas horrible execution.. Having the possibility to tailor your newly found companion into what you'd want / need it for is great, having to hope for RNG to drop you a token only to have RNG screw you over because it rolled two stats you didn't want nor need is just fueling that rage wagon that makes some people quit.
Now that was a few, the system is bulky, complex and counter-intuitive and I suggest simplifying it and adding more variety to be the greatest change you could do here.

Suggested Fix; 

  • Remove the reagents/tokens all together and bring up the cost for the services. 
  • Add a few more legendary quality pets to even out the races/value of eggs.
  • Give the players the option to instantly turn eggs into shards if you do keep the token system and remove the timer.
  • Give all Monthly pets the chance to re-roll any of the previous monthly abilities, This would keep monthly pets in their glory spot but also give us the possibility to customize our pets a bit further.
  • Bring the leveling to a simpler method, pet gains it's levels the same way a player does by gaining actual experience, not only would it give us number-nuts something to calculate but also a system that progresses more naturally.
  • Last but not least, do some math! X damage vs X cooldown etc to even out damage numbers, I'd also suggest increasing the cooldown period on Crowd Control abilities since they are powerful no matter your hero level or damage. In essence balance out the abilities.


Auto Aim.
The game currently employ's a form of aim-assist maneuver whenever your cross-hair rest over a hostile target, this in many cases cause a myriad of missed abilities from both pets and heroes. Example here would would be Bearkira's Maelstrom which if you aim in the middle of a lane with and have an enemy just trigger you cross-hair on either side can cause the ability to shoot straight into a wall or such at outside of you're intended area.

Suggested Fix; Give players a an option in the settings to toggle this on or off.


Range vs Melee, Hunter vs Apprentice.

Okay to start, Melee dps characters at the moment are a joke, not only are their damage meek but they can't survive long enough to actually do something worth the while unless they're complete tank build.
Squire's can work with it due to the shield and fightmenot sphere's etc. that they have in their arsenal but the overall damage resistance and base health makes for non-viable game play unless you have over geared builders which can easily hold the lane for you or what ever monthly pet ability is OP to the point of broken.
As it stand right now I experience that Huntress takes the lead on damage dealing in any way shape of form with the Apprentice following not to far behind with the squire on a third and monk landing on the last spot.

The problems I see at the moment are that Apprentice didn't really get enough viable sphere's to counter the huntress charged primary shot large sphere and that the melee character just can't stand being in the fray.
The monk can actually deal decent enough damage under the pretense that he's not busy being turned into chopped liver. The squire is just over-all lacking with no real damage increasing abilities and even less useful spheres on the offensive side.
Suggested Fix; Give the apprentice an equivalent sphere to the charged primary and long-shots and they'll be on even ground. Increase the algorithm for calculating melee health from items etc, and increase the base health and resistances of melee characters.

For now that's the lot of it that I can remember right now, being sleep deprived and sluggish!

Sincerely -Fos

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@Fosuya quote:

New bugs, Old beetles and Insane lightning cicadas.

...I'd like to fry up the shrimp that is with mobs getting stuck trying to path they're way into walls or even of the map...

If you are meaning mobs getting stuck in spawners or behaving poorly when knocked off path (such as into another lane), this has stealthily been addressed without including it into the patch notes.  I told the devs what was going on and why in great detail and they added 2 quality of life checks in the code that I have personally witnessed and thanked them aloud every time I see it happen.  The whole deal with spawner clutter had a lot to do with mobs grinding into one another til they were all off course (the exception to this is mobs going shoulder to shoulder and getting stuck due to that).  There is now a check in place that checks mobs every so many seconds to see if they are still in spawner then reguides them to their proper path.  I personally haven't seen a mob orgy in spawner since.  The second problem, mobs being knocked off course into other lanes or off ledges, was addressed by doing a check when attacked by a player (possibly defense too but haven't tested this).  If attacked, they replot their course now.  This is very noticable in gates if you knock a minion off right lane into mid near their spawners.  They will do their classic freak out then when attacked will suddenly go "oh, something's not right here" and start making their way down their new lane.

So believe it or not, the devs do listen and do react to things within means of fixing.  Bigger more complicated issues that are simply general nuiscances than colossal bugs tend to be avoided.  Not because they want to avoid them, but because they have a budget and deadlines to get certain other things taken care of.  This is not to say they won't ultimately be addressed, but rather it's pending.  A lot of what we ask for is hard to do with the restrictions they work under, but every now and then some great idea may come along and make them say "yeah this might be worth spending the time to make possible by next big patch".  So go ahead and keep tossing out ideas guys.  Just quit expecting overnight miracles ;p

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I've also pretty much stopped now, played a lot after the new patch, but there isn't any point anymore the new loot passive changes make absolutely no sense to me (overcrowding of passives on pieces). Trendy has never been good at balancing stuff if you played dd1 you will recognize the balance issues. And the overnerfs like the shield pets are nothing new. I think the biggest problem is f2p and their choice to monetize on hero slots, and then force us to build each hero for a single tower ( even more so after the new update). Hero deck is there to prevent the "p2w aspect", and probably the biggest reason its still there which also hinders any creativity or build diversity along with the payed hero slots.

There is also far too much rng on everything, dd1 had lots of rng but it was straight up, you get an item and can see straight away if its good or bad, maps gave rewards every time and it was just a matter of doing it until you got a decent one with the right stats. I've done maybe 30 runs on ramparts incur so far, no special drop yet. But everything in dd2 is rng pets, pet abilities, pet rarity, onslaught rewards, lockboxes (duh), even the enemy lanes (which btw make no sense)

Honestly i'd like to hear what devs think is actually better in dd2 as opposed to dd1, also there seems to be a huge push to these 4 skin packs for 20 bucks, where exactly is the value in them? I know its a f2p game and all but i have absolutely no incentive to spend that much on a few skins. And this is still alpha, with no set timeline for release as far as i know? How many more skin packs are there going to be released before the actual game is? 

I think if they didn't stop releasing content and did something about the hacked items/money in dd1 I would still be playing it heavily, as the game is far superior to dd2 in many ways despite it's flaws.

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you cant really criticize realeasing skin, its an expensive game, with online, shiny 3d graphics etc and its free


the problem is how they ignored balance for MONTHS, problems that i could solve in couple of days, useless ubers never even watched, useless entire classes (all melee dps) builders with only 1 tower worth etc etc, all this could be solved in a morning but its still there for months, and no plan on when and how its gonna be changed


thats depressing considering DD1 in some patches was much more balanced and with a more various meta

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@roboticaust quote:


If you are meaning mobs getting stuck in spawners or behaving poorly when knocked off path (such as into another lane), this has stealthily been addressed without including it into the patch notes. 

No sorry robo, but as late as last night we were farming ramparts and the upper right lane had mobs non-stop every wave without fail getting stuck between the spawner area all the way to the 2nd healing field, and that's not the only map it's still happening on, Gates, Littlehorn, Greystone and more still have their pathing broken. The suggested fix I'm talking about should be set into the Core-AI so no matter the map nor lane or even mob type should matter. 
I have seen the changes but I'm afraid they seem to be tackling the problem from the wrong direction in my point of view.

Even though I made a major post etc, I actually still enjoy playing for most of the day! I however felt that sharing my view of what's bad and for the most part a suggested fix would be helpful for the Dev's.

-Fos

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First time seriously playing since patch and I found out that a ton of my gear has been re-rolled/nerfed... awesome... yeah, that makes me really want to play.  I don't want to have to re-farm that much gear just to get back to the stats I had.

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@mmm quote:

you cant really criticize realeasing skin, its an expensive game, with online, shiny 3d graphics etc and its free


the problem is how they ignored balance for MONTHS, problems that i could solve in couple of days, useless ubers never even watched, useless entire classes (all melee dps) builders with only 1 tower worth etc etc, all this could be solved in a morning but its still there for months, and no plan on when and how its gonna be changed


thats depressing considering DD1 in some patches was much more balanced and with a more various meta

Yeah I personally love microtransactions in f2p games as long as they don't affect gameplay. I love buying costumes most people don't have or can't get without paying, it makes me feel like I have something unique. I spent like $500 in league of legends, and I have spend like $50 in dd2 already. A good $40 in hots. $100 in warframe. I don't mind, it's supporting the company, and you're getting something unique. 


And often times it's a different team working on cosmetics, so while the main group is working on fixing balance, the art department doesn't have anything to do. So they bring out some fun stuff. 




@draemn quote:

First time seriously playing since patch and I found out that a ton of my gear has been re-rolled/nerfed... awesome... yeah, that makes me really want to play.  I don't want to have to re-farm that much gear just to get back to the stats I had.

I feel you, but at the same time it's necessary. They are going to have to cut back on gear as they rebalance. Which was needed. I wouldn't mind re-farming everything if they re-balanced the whole game and made engaging content, not just the same thing in like 8 different difficulties. 

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I'll put in some things I have seen with the game after nearly 500 hours and agree with a lot that Chaosparadox mentioned.

I am hopeful, that the Wyvern Tokens have a larger purpose.  Grinding those reminds me of grinding Valor in WoW, which I played since the start for 10.5 years.  Right now they don't... so please Trendy, get some better Ubers... heck, fix the ones that are totally "un-uber".  That would give the game a purpose and something to do.  Opening boxes for repeat items, for cosmetics (if that's how people spend them... okay)... you have to work to get them... have them be able to get you better game wise. 

Examples: These are not my own but can't find who posted them.  

  • Every class should have a "Chaos Orb" style Uber, changing the mains damage to magical <---> physical.  
  • Items:  Have us working toward ilvl 650 (or higher) mystical/legendary item with ideal DPS / Builder stats.  They could be end game items or a tad lower.  I'm not talking full set, just a few pieces to work towards... change them one in a while (with warning). 

Drop Rate of higher end items at early waves bosses: I used to solo Liferoot Nm4 for gear (like everyone).  Then went to NM4 Little-Horn Valley... it was fun.  You start barely beating wave two, but would get a mystical/legendary that could be an upgrade... then get crushed level 3.  Try again.  Now, unless you get to lvl 5 or higher you have a very slight chance at good item any more. 

As a solo-er, I hate the hero deck and hate the meta.  For NM3/4 you almost have to have a DPS.  They means I can't take my waller.  So it's waller, traps, frosty/flamer, DPS.  And my DPS has to play... thus doesn't help my waller.  Want to keep the hero deck... then try this... someone has already suggested it...

Please make it like Onslaught... allow us to pick what type of drops we want... Squire, Hunter, Monk, Apprentice, Gold only as five choices.  This would allow solo people some way of still moving forward.

To Paradox's group (Mouldy especially), I appreciate all the times I did group.  My timing is a little off for most them... but they are fun.  I appreciate the help they have provided. 

(edit: Bullet items for clarification)



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I love this thread and all the replies in it. To the OP I too agree with a bunch of things you have said. Personally for me there are three reasons the game doesn't seem as fun as DD1.

No incentives to play other maps

Right now everyone is just playing liferoot in whatever mode they can handle because it's the easiest map. My desired solution is to provide rewards on different maps similar to what was in DD1. Some maps have special weapons (AKA ramparts) other have pets (DD1 Aquanos springs to mind) and some could even reward extra Wyvern tokens or other rewards.

Currently the 5x daily chests are a step in the right direction the maps just need to have that little bit more incentive.

NM4 Meta & lack of balance.

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned the Diablo effect and I think it's spot on. Right now a majority of the players will be running with Squire Walls, Frosty Power and Traps because they are the most effective build. Any other builds that are added into the game are immediately compared to the meta to see if they can best it. If not then they are discarded and rarely heard from again.

To me the issue is not that we have a meta it's that anything outside of the meta is very unlikely to succeed. It's like the game has been balanced against the meta so if you don't have the Frosty Power damage buff then you are destined to fail. I would like more build to be viable in end game and end game to be balanced so that it is possible for skilled player to come up with other solutions. 

To quote earlier in the thread. Strength Vs Strength should not be the only way to play.

Build Passives tied to Items & Skill Spheres

I've always been against Items determining what functions your tower has and personally think that all our build passives should have been tied into an expanded skill sphere system with items providing the appropriate scaling. 

You want to focus on Frosty towers? Choose from the following spheres, x% chance to freeze, x% increased range, x% defence attack speed bonus or x% damage bonus. Then have the equipped items boost those %. It's similar to what we have now but the functionality of the towers are determined by the player and not RNG. It's strength is determined by RNG.

But it's not all bad

So to end on a good note the game itself is definitely improving. From the majority of the replies I've read here it seems that a good majority of us are people who are at endgame and are currently burnt out of it. 

Remember how Campaign used to be? After our feedback Trendy released an update to the whole campaign system and it has been well received. We just need to keep providing similar feedback and hopefully Trendy will do the same with Endgame.


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I keep coming back to this damned forum; still wondering "why am i even bothering."

Everything here is documented by trendy and privileged users within this community.. they surely see the complaints yet they continue doing whatever they want to do that's good for business. [Surprise!]

(There's a hidden google documentation that logs every thread and allows all trendy employees and very few outside sources access to this information which provides likes, dislikes, comments, how hot that topic is, relating to or similar complaints (hero deck) for example.)

They have the statistics.  It's clear they know, but turn a blind eye.

Man, and I used to have a passion and run a hardcore group as well, but due to lack of content back early last year we disbanded. If we had formed that group now, I doubt results would been indifferent.. this game is unbearable to even partake within the forums let alone the actual game anymore.

It's a shame, I really like iamisom and I can vouch he does a good job, it's just unfortunate he isn't a programmer; i feel like his enthusiasm on a developer level could bring that fire back into the department.

But I just don't see this game as alpha anymore, it's a game that's functioning and providing them with cash the day they released f2p in last year's October.

(I had written information months prior anybody knew; the date of when they were releasing f2p. I spoke to QA and tried contacting trendy employees to halt that plan; pleading till there was more content and present balance issues were fixed, but that fell on deaf ears. Once that happened Nerfed along with me quit because nothing was being heard from a hardcore perspective that also saw the needs for casual players.)

Nerfed had consistent QA players that was trying hard to desperately turn around their methods of balancing to save the game. But they took our information and completely tossed it, giving no constructive feedback as to why they wouldn't take heed to what was wrong (with DD2's balance) to a group that was running incursions 12 hours per day.

Good to see other communities taking shape; but this game isn't even ready to be called an alpha which is ironic since it's technically in actuality a finished product since free to play happened. This is the impending doomsday I foresaw that I wanted to help avoid, but meh.. what do I know?

Whatever I don't play this game since Onslaught was implemented. What a train wreck that was.

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Most of these problems cant be solved in a week or two, and until they are solved the community is probably to small for the game to make a comeback. So i think the best thing to do is to patch small things that add more replay value.

And since the game is quite interesting until you get to grinding ramparts for days without a single drop i think this should be focused on Hardcore/Endgameplayers.

- Leaderboard: You could make global leaderboards for anything. Quickest mapclear, fastest kill of boss ecc. Then youve got a ranking that can be viewed by everyone somewhere in the tavern and after each week or month the best 100 groups get some unique cosmetic swag item. This makes the game competitive for those who like that withoug giving hardcoregamers an advantage.

This is my only serious idea at the moment but stuff like this would keep people play (at least me) until bigger problems can be fixed. 

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I agree with all of OP's points. Specifically the ipwr gap. For instance, sure some people don't like diablo 3, while I do. I also like grimdawn. Which both do loot better than this game. Diablo 3, for instance has the best loot drop in ALL difficulties. Torment 1-10 10 has the most gold and most magic find. so you would have better chances to get the loot you need with the higher difficulties. But what makes this work is the simple fact is you can play with friends and have an enjoyable time (if you don't want to steamroll with a treasure goblin ring that is a player that picks up their legendary items) Your time will not be wasted by playing torment 1 or 2 because it might drop you that one piece of gear you are still missing. And if you think you have your set for the build you want to do to be competitive in greater rifts, or seasons (for achievement hunting and races) You can still get the ancteint gear.


Grim dawn handles this a bit differently because it's more of a classical difficulty game, but when you are at ultimate difficulty (not even max level) and your friend is as well you guys are still aiming for the same stuff and able to still have a rewarding experience. and both are happy if they are close together.


In this game you can't possibly invite a new freind if you have 6 level 50 heroes, it would be boring for them to do insane to level they do nothing but repair and you do nothing but repair because everything dies so quickly. but that's just the leveling and that it takes a long time. But I digress they all have the "level issues" 

But the point is that end game NM1-3 are ALL fillar content to artificially lengthen the gameplay to the real end game, Maybe the devs want the grind in before they establish leaderboards for onslaught 

But the point is and will remain is that the whole NM1-4 thing needs to change, 



The other Huge issue is that the Squire hearty blockade is FAR too important, and is a requirement to play the nightmare difficulties, which limits the player to at least one squire.  Slows, stuns, and everything that can replace the squire's required build should not be nerfed


Sure you can say it's a co-op game, but these loot based games are played solo primarily, ass seen as you cant actually find a pug that is worth playing in, or if you do you might be lucky. But also that is few and far between to actually find groups. In DD1 and diablo 3 and diablo2 you CAN find a group Period. Hell some people or even most don't care if you leach they just like to have people playing the game with them, But for friend experience this game is lacking, people can't enjoy their time with the game if the other person is too low level in ipwr.


If this game's community wants to grow I believe that the following things need to happen.

HD, it doesn't do anything, I could care less about it, but those that it does, it impacts them negatively, so maybe get rid of it.


The dependency on ONE hero build the Hearty barricades Needs to end, App's cade is bad, The training dummies is bad, there is no worth while stuns and you Nerf the ones that seem to work well because Barricades are the only thing aloud to stop mobs. Oh, and if you have a week one! you are going to have to spend a billion gems, maybe because the balance is set up in such a way you can't possibly be able to upgrade towers enough to fight 3 ogres at once. Yes challenge, No that's a gear-check.


THey need to make loot that is in NM1 capable of being able to beat NM4 but the drop rate is low, the whole ipwr difference between NM1 and MN4 is so insanely high that it is outstanding. 

There is no creativity with the balance it's all just gear checks. Unlike the portalling Chrystal, or the raining ogres, or only wyverns. or the chicken hunt maps in DD1. That's what made that game worth going back to. and also the more static Items like the legendaries in D3, the uniques in D2 and path of exile and the epic and legendaries in grim dawn.(I will likely spend more time in grim dawn than this game because the systems there are more rewarding, though probably not as much as I did in D3 because there is no competition.) 

This game is still heavily in alpha, artificially padding the length to get to the place where you can experiment with your heroes builds or the game it self is rather amazing.

The game was better before wipe ageddon for a few reasons, There was only ONE end game, People actually Played together. The loot was rewarding for both, the long time players looked for the perfect rolls and stats. 

right now also because the community is so spread out, there is probably 1000 in the leveling process, 200 in NM1 and it diminishes to the point only 1 or so percent are reliably completing the toughest gear check. 

you need to have employees that you trust play your game from level 1 to 4 level 50s and complete reliably NM4 If your employee would rather work on art or programming than play the game they are creating There is a problem with that. I don't know ipassbutters job title is, but seeing that programmers cheat to get him the gear he needs to show off builds that are or should be in the game is quite telling, No one actually seems to want to play the game they are creating. 

Artificial progression lengthening is the biggest reason why people didn't like diablo 3 At launch. Some people don't like diablo 3 now because there is too few builds, And this game having a required build on one hero to be able to complete a difficuluty is a thousand times worse than having 4 builds for each of the five classes that are equally efficient at doing torment 10, maybe not pushing the highest rift solo, but in a group there is synergies. And soft competition.

OP THANK YOU FOR THIS THREAD, I WAS BEGINNING TO THINK I WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT WAS GIVING CRITIQUE once every week. 


These monthly quests are nice, but that's not enough to keep me playing progression for the sake of showing progression isn't fun. though it is extremely rewarding. but to complete most of these monthlies you would have to dedicate most of your game time to just this game.

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As someone who loved DD1 and tries to enjoy DD2 one of the main things for me is the matchmaking system. I don't always have friends to play with so instead of go into a lobby with a bunch of afk people or fully endgame geared players I have to just play alone. Even if I was slightly bored of the game itself I'd still enjoy joining random games and just chatting and meeting other players and seeing how they were deciding to set up and such, so I'm really missing that with this game. There is an odd emptiness to this game that makes me feel very alone and that isn't good.

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Why are we still here? Does Trendy even care and no Monthly pet update. Almost played 1k hours(964hrs) and I have to say I am getting bored of this game, farming almost 10 hours a day and got nothing good but just selling all trash. First SG server was inactive and now even NA server is getting inactive, its so hard to play public now as no one even join the game anymore. 

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My 2 cents:

CONS; Just seeing this forum topic near the top is worrying for me, If you present  people with this knowledge/info, then that thought could be stuck in their minds & could possibly be recalled at a later date, wouldn't it have been better to turn a blind eye, this game is still fairly new & is still in "Alpha" ha!

Pros: Feedback 4 devs, ayeo you fellas better be seeing this, not this, but ("THIS"). For new players, hey its a nice way to learn bits of the game that other players/veterans have picked up on.

Man idc what happens or the bs mechanics i just play, idgaf bring it on, i'll still be seen playing this w/e changes may come. I mean sure somethings do bug me but meh, a game is a game.I aint going to compare this to another game, what do u guys even want! something that's a similar to other games & its mechanics? or something original(or maybe not so original but changed enough)  People fear what they do not understand.

Ahh the days when u could pick up almost any video game, play it & to accept how everything works, Maybe with a few updates a year that added to the game e.g expansions. Not this having to go through bloody updates all the time cause they couldn't get it right the 1st time.

PS, only skimmed though most of the posts, Stop ya whining & get over it :Þ & here comes the hate!!

I do agree like a lot of points, but i really couldn't care less.

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@Haikz quote:

Why are we still here? Does Trendy even care and no Monthly pet update. Almost played 1k hours(964hrs) and I have to say I am getting bored of this game, farming almost 10 hours a day and got nothing good but just selling all trash. First SG server was inactive and now even NA server is getting inactive, its so hard to play public now as no one even join the game anymore. 

they had a holiday vacation. Trendy's real working hours can be one of the longer ones compared to other companies in the gaming industry.


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@chaosparadox quote:

1. Nothing to do

2. Disparity in ipwr

3. The game just doesn't feel right 

4. Groups/grouping 

I think the grouping mechanism (lackthereof) and the current gear issues are what's causing the game to not feel quite right.

===Grouping Issues===

In DD1, it was great to be able to see exactly what people were running or were interested in at-a-glance with the match list and titles. I knew exactly where to go to find people who wanted to do the same stuff that I wanted to do.

As it stands with DD2, you get put into a lobby with a tiny selection of people who are currently playing, but who haven't started a match, and you have to hope that at least one of them wants to do the same stuff you do.  No one responding?  Then start a new match of what you want to do and hope that someone else is already doing it and doesn't have a full group. No luck? Enjoy waiting for an indeterminate amount of time for someone else to show up (if they ever do because you're not able to advertise that you're running a particular difficulty/map after you've started it so you have to rely on sheer luck).

It's just a plain nightmare to try to consistently find like-minded individuals in-game.

===Gear Issues===

The current passives on the gear are game-breaking and essentially required for end-game, which limits diversity.

Gear dropping with only two stats reduces the viable gear options and build options, which limits diversity.

Diversity is one of the things I liked most about DD1. I never saw the same build twice in a single session. There were viable defense builds, DPS builds, and hybrid builds for every class. With DD2 currently you either have a Frost Mage, Hearty Squire, Trap Huntress, or pure DPS. If you don't, you aren't playing NM4 without a carry, and then the people carrying have the above mentioned builds. It's boring.

The passives should be moved to the sphere system (or another static/controlled system) so we not only don't have to rely on RNG for it, but it can be controlled more precisely for balancing needs so that all builds are more likely to be viable.

We need more stat diversity/options on gear to support hybrid builds like DD1 had (more than two stats per piece). Aheadatime's explanation of how to fix gear is spot-on: Here

===Summary===

Essentially, not being able to find like-minded people at-a-glance and having nearly no diversity in the viable character builds is giving the game an empty/isolating feeling while at the same time forcing you into one of four pieces of a single build that you may not enjoy simply because it's required to complete end-game content.


/rant

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@Gunghoe quote:



they had a holiday vacation. Trendy's real working hours can be one of the longer ones compared to other companies in the gaming industry.


^ this, Trendy works hard, my fear is they just released too early to public. During closed alpha I could pop on here and there when they were doing events, but when it was permanently up I got bored from a lack of content, then they released to the public, and it's now hitting the point where everyone else is running out of content. 


As the game feels awkward someone told me something I agree with. When warframe released to the public it felt really awkward, you could only melee twice every 5 or so seconds, everything was really dark, the story was choppy, everything just felt weird. Now warframe is one of my favorite games, the movement and combat feel fluid and they have really cool mod systems. 


it took waframe a year and a half of small improvements. I'm not giving up on the game, but I do think it might take some time. 

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@chaosparadox quote:

As the game feels awkward someone told me something I agree with. When warframe released to the public it felt really awkward, you could only melee twice every 5 or so seconds, everything was really dark, the story was choppy, everything just felt weird. Now warframe is one of my favorite games, the movement and combat feel fluid and they have really cool mod systems. 


it took waframe a year and a half of small improvements. I'm not giving up on the game, but I do think it might take some time. 

This is a great example. Warframe found success through steady improvements. That's a model that we look to for inspiration. 

I seriously can't wait to talk about this new update. :)

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@iamisom quote:


@chaosparadox quote:

As the game feels awkward someone told me something I agree with. When warframe released to the public it felt really awkward, you could only melee twice every 5 or so seconds, everything was really dark, the story was choppy, everything just felt weird. Now warframe is one of my favorite games, the movement and combat feel fluid and they have really cool mod systems. 


it took waframe a year and a half of small improvements. I'm not giving up on the game, but I do think it might take some time. 

This is a great example. Warframe found success through steady improvements. That's a model that we look to for inspiration. 

I seriously can't wait to talk about this new update. :)

Its funny you should say that. I used to play warframe in the early days. And there are a ton of similarities between the 2 games.

Both are in a niche that people really love and are passionate about that has little competition and a high chance of success.(not a lot of 3rd person tower defense games around. Even less park-hour space ninja games)

Both released early with a small amount of content.

Both instead of increasing replay-ability increased grind to try and retain its playerbase in the early stages.

Both went the wrong way with the first waves of updates.


I thought warframe wasn't going to make it the way they ran things. I'm glad it came back around and they are finally adding things they could have done a long time ago.(the last year seems to have had some good updates)

I really hope DD2 doesn't try to be like warframe and waste a year+ on empty updates.(dojo disaster)

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