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Hey guys this is mostly suggestions, but at the same time a sad look at the game from one of the most active dd2 communities. Secret Society hasn't been around for that long, but we are probably the farthest along in competitive (if you want to call it that). We have done every map at least once, at least 15 of us can solo most of nm4. Yet the community is dying faster than I have ever seen, purely because people are quitting the game, not quitting the guild.  People are staying in the community and playing other games together, it's actually pretty sad. 

Who am I? I am the leader of Secret Society. I have been an active part of the community since the beginning of DD1. I was in the first group of Defense Councilors and most people still seem to remember me by a thread I did in dd1 "I will write a story about your username" which can be found here . I quit this game about a month ago. I still commented on the forums and chatted with different people in the community, because despite the constant complaining about things trendy is working on, you guys are alright. I still recruited for my guild, because many of them were still playing at the time. But when our most active members stopped playing I decided it didn't feel right to keep recruiting.  We have started recruiting again, as many members are still active. 


This post will be pretty long (I have seen many longer.) But I will format it into chapters so you can read what you want. If anyone wants to add to the list that we have found, feel free to. There have been a lot of complaints in the guild about the game, so I am just picking the main few, mentioned wayy too much. 


So Why is everyone quitting? 

Not because of the hero deck, no one in the clan cared, it was a limitation we worked around. We could complete almost any map with very little trouble. Honestly I'd prefer if they gave all heroes 2 more towers and abilities then made it you choose 1 hero per map and you're stuck with it. They would have to remove resistances when playing solo, but it would give a sense of favored character. 

Not because of the gear setbacks, a couple people mentioned it and were annoyed by it, but it didn't take us any time to get back to where we were. 

Not because of the meta (which I will admit is one of the reasons I got bored in the first place, I didn't have elemental chaos for traps and I couldn't solo a lot of nm4 maps at the time because of that. But I hear it's quite a bit more open now) 



There are a few reasons I have heard over and over from some of our most active members that have quit without warning. They didn't write a post on the forums, they didnt complain and leave. They just left. 

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1. Nothing to do.  - There are reasons when wow brings out content, they set limitations. You can only raid once a week, each wing releases week after week. Dungeons give you valor for only the first dungeon and justice for the next 5 (yeah I know they removed that, but they saw their fault, they are bringing it back in legion.) When trendy brought out this new content, our clan had done it and gotten everything we needed out of it in like 4-5 days. 


Mine and my clans suggestions? Bring out content that gives a currency for completion you can use to buy like ipwr 800 gear. Have the bosses drop a certain item (non-random stats) something that is perfect for your build, and have 1 of 8 of these drop for each player whenever the boss is killed. Then limit it to once a week. This way endgame players have a reason to get on at least once a week if not for anything else.  This gives you time to bring out more content without losing a ton of players. I have such a stigma about the game, I barely tried the new maps. 

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2. Disparity in ipwr - This was something I saw and when I mentioned it to the clan they all seemed to agree. The difficulties are way too far apart. In wow , gw2 or tera if you are on the last raid/dungeon tier, there is a good chance you still need some stuff from previous raids. Yet in dd2, if you're doing nm4, you don't need anything from nm3 or nm2 the stats are just too low. There is no reason to join a friend in a lower difficulty other than to do it for him. Which is another problem, in an mmo or another game, having a higher geared friend made the runs easier but didn't make them completely boring, which in dd2 is already how this is. (however this is probably going to stay this way because of the way dd is.) So while this is going on all of the difficulties are just spreading the community farther apart making each area have less and less people, making the game feel much more empty. 


Mine and my clans suggestions? Ditch NM1-4. And adjust insane. Insane can be all endgame. Make the maps have a slightly larger ipwr range. Add challenges and my hope, weekly dungeons. Make all the stats lower, so the community is mostly together. But still have cool items that are hidden behind challenging maps, instead of behind a large gear grind of nm1-4. 

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3. The game just doesn't feel right -  I didn't really get this until I started really looking at it and what people are saying, but I have heard it a lot (and by a lot I mean A LOT!!). Some people say it just isn't dd1, dd1 was polished and didn't try to be anything it wasn't. Some people say the game has no focus, every drop is rng so it's just a matter of rolling the dice enough times to get good pieces. No focus in the crafting as it's barely in the game, no focus in the skill spheres as there are so few in the game. No focus in the grouping as it's awkward to setup or find groups. No focus on pets, to level them it requires some awkward combination of bag fillers with no bank or anywhere to stash them so you always feel cluttered. 


Mine and my clans suggestion? Simplify/bolster, Move on. What I mean by that is to look at everything, if it's a key part of the game, bolster it to make it more interesting, if it's a side part, simplify it for now, this game isn't big enough to be this complicated. Look at pets, you have rerolls, you have food (which you don't even need.) you have experience, you have shellium shards/eggs, hatch times, you have abilities (which isn't fair that some abilities are locked on pets you can't get anymore, this discourages new players trying to play seriously). You have random items you need with shellium shards to evolve, and gold added into that. How about for now, make the pets simply drop not as eggs, but as pets you level them by doing maps. Then move on and come back to it when the game is more solid. And put it back to how it was in dd1 on the pet abilities, have a pet with certain abilities drop from each different onslaught after wave 10/15. That way they are all obtainable with enough work. 


Another example, the crafting. You're telling me you need to fuse items that I have to keep in already cluttered bags, whenever I want to level a weapon? So I find a good weapon, I now need to take time into spamming dungeons purely to loot trash to dump it into this weapon awkwardly 5 items at a time? No just make it gold, you sell your items and put that money towards upgrading. Way too complicated for this early into the game. Make us fuse items for better items, but this is just stupid. 


Frosty power and all these types of things were creative, but way too much of it to focus on especially in an rng drop game. Like in wow, you could get gloves that makes your backstab strike twice at half power (allowing you to trigger procs easier). It's one piece, it's a good piece people can farm for (however no one needs it to keep up). But frosty power is RNG to get and way too strong everyone always needs it. The frost towers were strong when they just slowed enemies, but seeing like 5 of them in every lane just makes me sick. And I have to blindly grind to get to the point I should do that. Make everything simple. Less of these attribute for now, they are making it too hard for you guys to balance the game. It just seems like you had a ton of ideas and threw them into the game so you wouldn't forget them. Just write it down, come back to it when you have a balanced game. 

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4. Groups/grouping - What happened to the dd1 system? Setup a build in private, open it to public. This is solid for people who wanted to run people through stuff. This also gives your group a goal for people to know, if you make your group titled (need wall squire and dps.) people will know they can join, as opposed to just having 3 dps huntresses join. 


Until I made Secret Society I felt so alone. Ironically I felt the most alone when in public taverns filled with people running around spamming stuff. The game just feels so unfriendly. At least in the last game you could see all the groups running and join ones you were interested in, not just clicking random on quick match hoping to get grouped with a group that needs you.


My suggestion? Bring back the dd1 system, or quickly come up with something friendly. The dd1 system would fix a lot of the issues and make it much easier to join groups.  To be honest, a simple lfg chat would go a long way. Warframe is similar, 4 people per group, instanced dungeons, and they survive, no they thrive with just an lfg chat... I mean they also have a clan system and all that, but honestly it's probably too early for a guild system as much as I'd like it. 

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tl;dr - active community dying. leader decides to mention a few reasons why they are leaving the game, along with suggestions agreed upon with some of the members of the community. 


Likely because of the holidays no trendy employees will even see this. But if they do, I just want to say, we loved dd1, and I'd lie if I said i didn't have fun in dd2, it just doesn't have any reason to play it now. I most likely am going to take about a 6 month break, and see where it is then. I wish I could say the same for the people in the community that left, I don't know how long it will be for them, if they ever come back. 

 

Editted to add some info about myself. 


edit: the clan has started to recruit again, many member are still active, and I don't want my personal feelings to ruin their experience. 

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i disagree with one thing you have mentioned and that's the HD not hurting the game, you finding a way around the limitation is not the issue. My problem with it is that it's forcing you to use the bests thing out there to progress, forcing a walls, traps, frosty meta. Yes I have builds with out traps on NM4, but it's alot more vulnerable.

That is certainly killing my enjoyment of the game.

The HD is meant for causals who have no idea what strategy is. You can co-op with friends with out such a limitation just fine. Yet we have the stupidest idea in DD history. You should be allowed to bring how many characters you want.

DU is what should limit your build, not the boring variety of just using 4 characters.

The rest I can agree with.

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Mostly agree with nearly everything that the OP stated. 

I personally dislike the hero deck limitations, and think they should at least increase it to 6 or 8, and call it a day if removing it completely is out of the question. 

Outside of that, sure, other things are "viable" but doesn't mean it's optimal. Just my thoughts, I suppose. But like I mentioned, outside of all of that, I fully agree with a lot, OP.

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Ah, that's a shame. Up until recently, I'd been taking a hiatus from the game. Got burned out by excessive grinding before Wipeaggedon and a lack of motivation afterwards. I was hoping to find another guild to run with, and it's too bad it won't be this one. I've had a similar experience with my friends. Almost everyone I know who plays DD2 is on hiatus, playing other games and only returning for the major updates. Even the most hardcore of them. I think one of the problems with the game is early access. When I bought the game back in last October, the game was in a much worse state than it is now. Was I disappointed? Not at all. It was my choice to opt in to a game that I knew wasn't finished, or even close to being finished. And what I saw was a lot of latent potential. Seriously, somebody needs to give the art team a medal. I was _captivated_ by the game when I first started playing it, but I recognized two major problems. One, a serious lack of content in comparison to DD1, and two, a lack of balance and some mechanics that clearly needed a bit of work. These, however, can be ameliorated with time. And that's what I told my friends. Just wait, with time and a bit of content it's going to be awesome!

Well, here we are a year later, and is it? Yes and no. It's a lot better than before, but not nearly awesome enough to meet people's expectations. Some might argue that would be a fool's errand to begin with, and they're probably right, but it's clearly a problem that's been exacerbated by releasing the game early. I say "releasing", because I think that's what a lot of people thought when it went F2P. Now, for the first time, the paywall was gone, and the massive amount of people waiting to play the game--most of them vets from DD1 like my friends--could finally see it for themselves. And they were disappointed. Because honestly, the state of the game hasn't changed much from when I played it a year ago. Sure, it has more content, and a lot of mechanics have been improved *like you said above, maybe TOO many mechanics*, but is that enough? That really is the question, and I think for a lot of people the answer is a resounding "No". That's certainly not the only problem. Like you said, the game certainly needs more mechanics to retain players, but I think it's one of the foremost. The disparity between people's expectations and reality. People weren't impressed by DD2 when it went F2P back in October, and it's clear they weren't impressed by it with the Harbinger update either. Is it a bad game? No, of course not. But it needs more content. And some of the existing mechanics suck. So let's just wait and see how it turns out, k? Or not, because we're tired of waiting for a game with the potential to be awesome to turn into a game that's, you know, actually awesome. That's how I think most people feel, based on my own experience, the experiences of my friends, and the dwindling number of people playing the game. Not how I feel, or I wouldn't have bothered dedicating hundreds of hours of my life to this game, but I can sympathize. DD1 was a game that nobody had expectations for. Why would they? It was the first game from a studio nobody had ever heard of. Now, on the other hand, the expectations are very high. And I think opening the game to the public this early has resulted in a disenchantment of a large portion of Trendy's fanbase.

Anyways, my apologies. Normally, I would address a post like this on more of a point by point basis, but I'm on my phone right now and that would take too long. Suffice it to say that I agree with most if not all of your points. :)

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I mean its still beta/alpha bud. People do not want to invest so much time on a game that is in early access and then getting it wiped shortly after. Just saying, I have early access for Blade and soul as well as Black desert Online, but I am only gonna play to get familiar with basics.. not to enjoy the story or get competitive right away. 

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Some interesting points in like the grouping system or social part. But that's pretty much personal based. I always had people to play with, sure sometimes unfriendly but mostly friendly. Because everyone want's to have fun after all.

Also saying that people don't quit out of certain reason is probably wrong. There are some who would quit for that. And if i take the majority from my fl list into account the main reason are ... Bugs. Simple bugs and connection issues. Good 1/2 of the people in my fl quited because they got annoyed by them. Some as old as a year and still in the game.

I also think it is not right to compare the game straight to dd1. This one isn't complete yet. They still work on it, content will be added and refined.

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Haven't played in quite some time, just logged in to open my boxes and play the new boss once ( didn't even beat it, but didn't feel the need to )

Theres just nothing to do, and as someone who solos 75% of their games played, i was tired of NM4 beating me into the floor no matter how hard i tried, It's not fun dying at wave 3-4 over and over.

i get that plenty of people disagree, but i miss being overpowered, i miss it a lot...

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Things that would tempt me to log in again: HD gone, DD1 grouping system, builds moved off gear and onto spheres.

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Your #3 point is very complex. The game doesn't feel right at all, I agree with that, but I believe there are dozens of reasons why. Combat reasons like melee lunge mechanic, build reasons like gear/passives/spheres, leveling reasons, messy inventory reasons, graphical reasons, map experience reasons, etc. There's alot going on that is making this game feel way too different than DD1, which to us DD1 players, makes it not feel right.

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@Aheadatime quote:

Your #3 point is very complex. The game doesn't feel right at all, I agree with that, but I believe there are dozens of reasons why. Combat reasons like melee lunge mechanic, build reasons like gear/passives/spheres, leveling reasons, messy inventory reasons, graphical reasons, map experience reasons, etc. There's alot going on that is making this game feel way too different than DD1, which to us DD1 players, makes it not feel right.

yeah that was a weird one for sure. I heard tons of people saying "the game doesn't feel right." and when I asked why, most people couldn't say why. so I took other complaints that might have caused that. 

And to the others about the hero deck, sure it could be a problem, i was just saying out of our elite group, no one was really bothered by it. 

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@chaosparadox quote:
 And to the others about the hero deck, sure it could be a problem, i was just saying out of our elite group, no one was really bothered by it. 

I would say the elite group could over come most anything but the question is, is it fun. I think that is the biggest problem. This seems more like mindless farming and not like an engaging game play.

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@Chappyy quote:


@chaosparadox quote:
 And to the others about the hero deck, sure it could be a problem, i was just saying out of our elite group, no one was really bothered by it. 

I would say the elite group could over come most anything but the question is, is it fun. I think that is the biggest problem. This seems more like mindless farming and not like an engaging game play.

I'm part of that "elite group" and it's just an absolute chore to even complete any of the current end game content. I'm probably one of the biggest dd2 fanboys you could ever meet, i'd sell this game to all my friends and happily devote hours of my time to bolstering this community but currently the game is in such a stale and sad state that I don't have the motivation to even try.

Every time I try to add more to this I can't because words don't flow from my fingers as I hope they would, but I can't pinpoint why the game just feels so goddamn awful now. I really hope they add something or do something or fix something with the game because I feel like so much has been lost in such a short amount of time, when so much could have been gained. Might as well have just removed nm4 and just called it nm5, cause no soul is gonna gear thei  *** it merry christmas

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I am gone. Dont even touched the new patch and have no motivation to play DD2 at all actually.

My reason is the Diablo3 factor. There is only 1 viable build. Traptress, Frost, Walls... the meta stuff. Now there are new items and maybe new builds but they are gated behind that new items. Thats exaclty the same why D3 suckz for me. When you put a itemset on in D3 you can read in the tooltip to 75% what spells you have to use. There is no combining of elements, play with element effects, choose from a set of spells/elements/dmg types/advantages/disadvantages... the complete herobuild and itembuild is hardcoded. Thats why i never touched the new patch. I dont want that superpurple item what makes lightning aura maybe finally reasonable, i want to see such spells balanced in basic and have multiple possibilitys to use them.

This feels like a singleplayer content with levels like a tube. Just follow the hardcoded gameplay and you will reach the end. DD2 has absolute no feeling at building, training, equipping a char. This includes the uselessness of any mellee actions, the 100% needed entry ticket for the game for everyone to have a hearthyB squire, to see the huntress be the absolute nobrainer and queen of dps without any real rivalry in this job and at the end in combination with all that the monotone gameplay like the lack of real different gamemodes and competitions.

Thats my explanation as a guy that leaved the game. Maybe in 2-3 patches i come back. Will read patchnotes for sure but at this state of the game no way. Dont even login to check dailys or anyting actually.

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@Mouldy quote:



I'm part of that "elite group" and it's just an absolute chore to even complete any of the current end game content. I'm probably one of the biggest dd2 fanboys you could ever meet, i'd sell this game to all my friends and happily devote hours of my time to bolstering this community but currently the game is in such a stale and sad state that I don't have the motivation to even try.

Every time I try to add more to this I can't because words don't flow from my fingers as I hope they would, but I can't pinpoint why the game just feels so goddamn awful now. I really hope they add something or do something or fix something with the game because I feel like so much has been lost in such a short amount of time, when so much could have been gained. Might as well have just removed nm4 and just called it nm5, cause no soul is gonna gear thei  *** it merry christmas

Hey Mouldy, 


I was hoping you would see this. You mic, sindrow, and D were pretty much the only reasons i was still keeping the guild going. You guys were so motivated to help people and keep DD2 alive. When Mic left I was discouraged, but continued until you and D seemed to stop playing. 


Maybe we can get this guild started back up when this game gets a bit more polished. But for now I think it may fade.

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I hate the idea of time gated crap, im one of those people if i miss 1 or 2 weeks of something i will rarely come back to it. I do agree frosty towers should go thoe, that was the #1 design flaw, was really hoping boost aura was gonna get all these passives serenity got its to bad really. I think once frost towers removed real balancing can be made, until then the game will be in purgatory.

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I don't play the game anymore my main reason I left was due to the lack of classes and towers. Also I disliked the loot/crafting/pet systems as the OP said I felt they were boring and a waste of space. I did have some fun on this game however and I hope in the future more classes/towers and some not so repetitive gameplay, maybe take some classes/ideas from other successful games out there. 

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More (random) events would be nice. I'm not talking about things like the current events but ingame-events.


I'll partially quote this from a suggestion I made in february. After a certain number of fulfilled daily quests you get an internal rank; something like hero ranks. Depending on the hero rank you have you are able to meet some special NPCs. At a certain level you can meet a smuggler who actually sells interesting stuff.

Things like that. Something like a reputation system. This would also fit perfectly into the new social hub that will come sometime later.

Maybe events which are dependent from the current weather (if I'm right there will be a weather system some time later)

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@chaosparadox quote:


@Aheadatime quote:

Your #3 point is very complex. The game doesn't feel right at all, I agree with that, but I believe there are dozens of reasons why. Combat reasons like melee lunge mechanic, build reasons like gear/passives/spheres, leveling reasons, messy inventory reasons, graphical reasons, map experience reasons, etc. There's alot going on that is making this game feel way too different than DD1, which to us DD1 players, makes it not feel right.

yeah that was a weird one for sure. I heard tons of people saying "the game doesn't feel right." and when I asked why, most people couldn't say why. so I took other complaints that might have caused that. 

Well I'm curious as to what you think is causing this feeling in your own experiences. Since you played DD1 a bunch, why is the magic not there for you in DD2? 

Personally, I have a ton of disharmonious experiences when playing this game in comparison to DD1, which I'll be highlighting in a thread series. Here's the first thread regarding gear. I always enjoy hearing what other DD1 vets think is wrong with this title so far.

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@Chappyy quote:


@chaosparadox quote:
 And to the others about the hero deck, sure it could be a problem, i was just saying out of our elite group, no one was really bothered by it. 

I would say the elite group could over come most anything but the question is, is it fun. I think that is the biggest problem. This seems more like mindless farming and not like an engaging game play.

This right here, this.  This is my biggest gripe currently with the game.  It's not balance, it's not the hero deck, it's not the glaring bugs, or anything else on the long list of complaints.  It's this.  Dd1/dde gave players a reason to be active within game.  It was engaging, it wasn't mindless.  Various levels, various challenges, various mobs required different tactics to overcome and often times made you get off your ass and do work instead of hiding behind a bara on huntress endlessly.  I could handle all the grinding in the world if this was addressed.  GIve us djinn, give us spiders, give us sharkens, give us goblincopters, give us crystaline heroes, give us reasons to leave our turtle shell, to build differently to dps differently, give us incursions that actually feel like a legitimate change to the level in question.  The grind feels so stale and is causing players to vanish.

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I think all the balancing flaws and also the bugs would not hurt us that much if we had some obvious choices about WHAT we play with WHOM. (thinking about a game's list like DD1)

Finding like-minded people would help enduring a lot of flaws.

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I hope Trendy reads this quickly because this thread is the real thing.

The main problem with the current game is that there isn't any grip, or no reason to play. I am sick of farming gates nm4 inc, sick doing Harbinger, and sick of Liferoot. Done each of them over 9000 times to get the better gears (even if RNGesus doesn't seem to quite like me). I don't mind grinding, but the question is: what for? Why am I even grinding? I am currently grinding on the hardest maps of the game, meaning i can build the map. Why do I need better gears? 

I understand why a lot of elites are leaving the game, and that is sad. It is now so hard to find decent DPS in nm4 (not even talking about builders lol) that I am always stuck with some damn leechers. I've done like 10 runs today on Gates nm4 inc with 2 leechers and me and my friend did all the DPS, I did all the build (except for frost which were built by my friend). Now, I don't mind helping others and having leechers sometimes if they repair and don't make us lose, but having leechers 24/7 is just too much. They automatically friend you on steam and act like your "best friend" and then always join you. This is annoying. I've unfriend many of them, but hey, you don't want to get the d*** reputation don't you? 

I haven't stop playing. I will play less, that's for sure, but will still play because I love this game and have faith in it. Find something that will hook players and make the elites stay. I understand Trendy wants to take care of the majority, but the veterans and dd experimented players (which can give you a lot of feedback) will leave if you ignore them. Bugs and the hero deck, even if I hate it, won't make us leave. No point in farming will.


Cheers defenders


by a Mushroom's Cake

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