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I think people need to remember what this game is about


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So many whinge posts on here and on Steam. It's ridiculous. It's like people think this is a life or death competition or something. This game is about having fun with friends. Not to be uber cool soloer check out my DPS bro. Yes the patch has altered gear. Big deal. It means you get to have fun getting gear again. Yes it's a pain in the ass having put hundreds or thousands of hours getting gear etc. but the game is still in Alpha and the devs are still learning what works or doesn't work.


Yes Alpha shouldn't be used as a scape goat for everything annoying or stupid that comes about but people still need to realise an Alpha is just the beginning. The devs do take on board things that people say and try to do the best they can. Having a sook because something is different without giving them time to take everything in and potentially fix it is just unfair.


I have seen countless other games that are further along the development path where the devs plan is the only plan. Ask them a question and your met with stone cold silence. Suggest something and it falls on deaf ears.


Any way TL;DR I know but it just frustrates me that people can be so rude and demanding.



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Basically nothing to be added here. Sums it up precisely.
I've forced myself through a lot of games, that have been in an Alpha-Stage of Development where the Devs just did what they had planned out and just disregarding or completely ignoring the Community and their oppinion on the state of the game etc. (There are even way too many already finished games, that are still supported with Updates that make the Community fall into an absolute Hate-Storm....and Devs of those Games still don't react properly to it, if they even react at all)

And i was pleasantly surprised by the way the Devs at Trendy handle DD2. They actually include the Community in a lot of major and important decisions and listen to their complaints. And they do that continuously.
So, i don't get why people are so mad about the Harbinger-Update. Watch the Dev-Streams, before you start complaining and whining about nothing. The Way they've changed the loot system and readjusted stats, etc. (You know what it is anyways, if you're not living under a rock) is something that i found pleasingly satisfying, instead of the very infuriating Crap-Loot-Avalanche we had before, where the only good items, i could gather, were things that just didn't fit my Build and Playstyle.
They're doing their best to improve the game's experience and its motivation for replayability. And in my opinion, they are doing a very fine job at it.
(And as Wraith666 wrote above me, it is plain unfair to hate on the Update, the Devs and the Game in general, just shortly after the Update came out and you were confronted with the changes. If there was a bad decision by the Devs, you'd need to invest enough time into it, to fully understand if it actually is a bad one. And if you can say for sure that somebody "ruined the game" , as some of you tend to say, then you still need to be patient, because some things can't just be fixed by mere wishes. They are Game-Developers, no Wizards.)

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Dude, don't put your words in my mouth.

The fun part of DD1 and DD2 is to develop a toon's army all by myself to conquer every single map, and probably carry some noobs occasionally.

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I'm confused....

@Gnuy Niy quote:

Dude, don't put your words in my mouth.

The fun part of DD1 and DD2 is to develop a toon's army all by myself to conquer every single map, and probably carry some noobs occasionally.


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Only real complaint is the difficulty increase yet gear still in the same areas.. Gonna take some time but nm3 now feels what nm4 was, and nm4 inc I cannt check as way to hard.    Drops are still in hte same location soo o get to nm3 your gonna need like perfect nm2 gear and to get to nm4 perfect nm3 gear with a decent group lol 

IMO

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Yes it should be fun, even tho i play ONLY WITH FRIENDS, the part you have to redo most part of your grinding hours is still annoying. i dont care about who has the best things, but you have worked for the stats you have and with a single patch its gone, and that goes for most of the players.

"Big deal. It means you get to have fun getting gear again"

Yes that is a big deal, and its not fun if you need to work 200 hours again for a single character to get geared where you were before.  thats called a waste of time, and not even a quality of life change.

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@Droelie quote:

Yes it should be fun, even tho i play ONLY WITH FRIENDS, the part you have to redo most part of your grinding hours is still annoying. i dont care about who has the best things, but you have worked for the stats you have and with a single patch its gone, and that goes for most of the players.

"Big deal. It means you get to have fun getting gear again"

Yes that is a big deal, and its not fun if you need to work 200 hours again for a single character to get geared where you were before.  thats called a waste of time, and not even a quality of life change.

Also if the process of grinding the gear isn't fun at all then it is kind of demoralizing that you have to start over.

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@Droelie quote:

Yes it should be fun, even tho i play ONLY WITH FRIENDS, the part you have to redo most part of your grinding hours is still annoying. i dont care about who has the best things, but you have worked for the stats you have and with a single patch its gone, and that goes for most of the players.

"Big deal. It means you get to have fun getting gear again"

Yes that is a big deal, and its not fun if you need to work 200 hours again for a single character to get geared where you were before.  thats called a waste of time, and not even a quality of life change.

I thought the point of this game WAS grinding gear. If your gear is perfect already or you can already clear the hardest content isnt there no point in playing the game anymore? I mean their would be nothing left to do after that.

The fun part of this game is meant to be the gearing process so if you dont find that fun then you dont actually find this game fun so you should probably stop forcing yourself to play for whatever reason...

If they nurf the strongest build, you should change builds. If they reroll your gear then you just re gear again. If you get bored of playing you stop playing. No game can keep you entertained forever after all nor would that be a realistic goal for a game.

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Uh, playing the game would be left after gearing up.


Killing *** is supposed to be fun.  Name me a good game whose only selling point is gearing up lol.  Killing hoards and hoards of monsters in hack n slashes is super fun, killing stuff in borderlands is super fun, killing stuff in dd1 is super fun


it's missing from this game and it's really hard for a layman to explain precisely what it is that makes that sort of stuff fun.  It's very unfortunate when developers can't put their finger on it either though...

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@Pachipachio quote:

Uh, playing the game would be left after gearing up.


Killing *** is supposed to be fun.  Name me a good game whose only selling point is gearing up lol.  Killing hoards and hoards of monsters in hack n slashes is super fun, killing stuff in borderlands is super fun, killing stuff in dd1 is super fun


it's missing from this game and it's really hard for a layman to explain precisely what it is that makes that sort of stuff fun.  It's very unfortunate when developers can't put their finger on it either though...

In everything you listed the fun part is PROGRESSING while killing stuff. A hack n slash/ARPG like Path of exile or D3, your are progressing your character while killing stuff and thats fun. In borderlands your are progressing by gearing/leveling and experiencing the story while killing stuff. Progression is the key part that makes killing things fun in games. 

Generally the only way you can take game mechanic progression out of a game and it still be fun is if its a player vs player game, because the progression comes from playing better and better players as you get better at the game. But even that is progression.

In DD2, if everyone was given max stats, with set end game gear and could beat the hardest content of the game already, no one would play the game anymore even though your still killing tons of stuff. Why? because their was no progression in the game and it would be boring to play.


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I don't think that's totally fair.. plenty of people in diablo, borderlands (esp 1), dd1, etc played after beating it and getting, basically, the best gear.  


Hell, I hacked my gear in borderlands 1 and dd1 (kept it realistic) and still played because it was fun


Lots of hack n slash or arpgs that aren't as great or well known I'd buy/download just for the sake of playing it for a bit knowing there will be no endgame, knowing there's no "endless mode" at the end... but I play because it's fun and never do I pay attention to stats, legendary affixes, or whatever else in those dumb one-off games.  It's all killing stuff


Here it's undeniably more obsessing about the gear to be able to do things you can't than any other game.  Other games the  perfectly rolled gear just meant you do things faster,  I guess to that point there's still progression, but that progression didn't mean the difference between being able to do something or getting demolished


I guess that would be my main point.  In games where (imo) there is more fun are the ones where progression offers a slight edge instead of opening up new content.  Lacking perfectly rolled gear meant it took a lot longer (or multiple lives, gold costs for revives, etc) to beat stuff up. Here lacking the perfectly rolled gear you're still getting ***ed up 


And it's been like that for a long time for solo players.  I don't think we've yet seen a really difficult map get solod by someone (not to say that someone hasn't done it, it's just reeeeeeeally rare).

It's more like getting kicked in the teeth than killing ***.  For a solo player, anyway.

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I agree, OP. As I stated in another thread, I can't speak on behalf of NM4 and all of that, but starting a new character, character and gear progression felt the best it has ever felt. Gear wasn't complete ass like it was before the majority of the time (yea you still get that ***ty piece ever now and then, but it's much less common than before.)

The snow maps are a blast, I seriously love them. 

Costumes look great (even if I'm salty that they still haven't added  costumes that can be obtained in game without having to shove what gems I have left over at them.) Seriously [[4370,users]]  - there needs to be some fun obtainable cosmetic rewards that can be earned through gameplay, too! Please don't forget to do that. Sure, maybe they don't need to look as badass as say, dark arts apprentice, but a goal through in game methods for cosmetics at times would be really fun.)

Well those are my thoughts, on the new patch anyway. I have enjoyed leveling thus far, and look forward to continuing it when the guys I've been playing with log on!

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I think you need to realize there isn't just one right way to play this game.


Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of what people are saying is a bit harsh, and there is a lot that I do like about this patch (The whole boss fight is great!), but you can't just dismiss what people are saying either. A lot of these changes came out of nowhere, and at the same time nerfed a lot of people. I could reliably carry nm3 and was starting to work on nm4. Now I'm relegated back to nm2 and I'm lucky if I barely clear nm3. 

The main problems come from both buffing later difficulties and at the same time nerfing existing passives. Not to mention that there was no indication that this was going to happen, so we just got blindsided by the whole thing. Maybe the bug fix for frosties will help alleviate some of this, but right now it's sort of disheartening.

I feel like most of the people who don't see it as a big deal aren't in the nm3-4 range where the monster buff was most prevalent. I'm fine with them making the game more challenging, but it was a bit overkill to throw 3 difficulty increases (mob hp/dmg buff + nm difficulty buff + passive nerf) out at the same time without even mentioning they were happening.


Also, Tristaris : I'm pretty sure you can get the holiday costumes from the new lockboxes without paying gems. Just need to use wyvern tokens to get keys.

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I like gaming that allows me to have fun. My fun comes from spending time to progress my characters to the point that I am able to steamroll content with minimal trouble. I suppose there are those that always want the game to be challenging even when in the best gear but I don't understand that kind of reasoning.  Either way difficulty shouldn't be determined by highest gear and fotm builds. It should be based on average gear needed to complete with a variety of different yet effective builds.

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Lot of good replies and no arguing. This is what a community is meant to be about :)

I personally stopped playing as soon as I heard about the loot changes because I knew all the grinding would be for nothing.

Tried playing last night but I was having shocking lag. Seems alright to me so far though besides broken frosties.

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@Wraith666 quote:

Lot of good replies and no arguing. This is what a community is meant to be about :)

I personally stopped playing as soon as I heard about the loot changes because I knew all the grinding would be for nothing.

Tried playing last night but I was having shocking lag. Seems alright to me so far though besides broken frosties.

The frosties should be fixed now with the Hotfix :)

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Some one has reported other wise. Guess we shall see :)

@chesticles quote:


@Wraith666 quote:

Lot of good replies and no arguing. This is what a community is meant to be about :)

I personally stopped playing as soon as I heard about the loot changes because I knew all the grinding would be for nothing.

Tried playing last night but I was having shocking lag. Seems alright to me so far though besides broken frosties.

The frosties should be fixed now with the Hotfix :)


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@Spencer1K quote:


@Droelie quote:

Yes it should be fun, even tho i play ONLY WITH FRIENDS, the part you have to redo most part of your grinding hours is still annoying. i dont care about who has the best things, but you have worked for the stats you have and with a single patch its gone, and that goes for most of the players.

"Big deal. It means you get to have fun getting gear again"

Yes that is a big deal, and its not fun if you need to work 200 hours again for a single character to get geared where you were before.  thats called a waste of time, and not even a quality of life change.

I thought the point of this game WAS grinding gear. If your gear is perfect already or you can already clear the hardest content isnt there no point in playing the game anymore? I mean their would be nothing left to do after that.

The fun part of this game is meant to be the gearing process so if you dont find that fun then you dont actually find this game fun so you should probably stop forcing yourself to play for whatever reason...

If they nurf the strongest build, you should change builds. If they reroll your gear then you just re gear again. If you get bored of playing you stop playing. No game can keep you entertained forever after all nor would that be a realistic goal for a game.

Playing a game to GRIND GEAR is never a fun game. Doing the exact same mission over and over again hoping to get the high leveled gear you need to move on is the worst experience. Grinding only covers up the truth, a lack of content, which many of these games used to have, that, and fun with friends, but it isn't fun with friends anymore. We still get destroyed in NM3 Greystone. Having to regrind for gear while working/school is just not doable! You play a game to be entertained and socialize, grinding doesn't promote that.

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@The AX Man quote:


@Spencer1K quote:


@Droelie quote:

Yes it should be fun, even tho i play ONLY WITH FRIENDS, the part you have to redo most part of your grinding hours is still annoying. i dont care about who has the best things, but you have worked for the stats you have and with a single patch its gone, and that goes for most of the players.

"Big deal. It means you get to have fun getting gear again"

Yes that is a big deal, and its not fun if you need to work 200 hours again for a single character to get geared where you were before.  thats called a waste of time, and not even a quality of life change.

I thought the point of this game WAS grinding gear. If your gear is perfect already or you can already clear the hardest content isnt there no point in playing the game anymore? I mean their would be nothing left to do after that.

The fun part of this game is meant to be the gearing process so if you dont find that fun then you dont actually find this game fun so you should probably stop forcing yourself to play for whatever reason...

If they nurf the strongest build, you should change builds. If they reroll your gear then you just re gear again. If you get bored of playing you stop playing. No game can keep you entertained forever after all nor would that be a realistic goal for a game.

Playing a game to GRIND GEAR is never a fun game. Doing the exact same mission over and over again hoping to get the high leveled gear you need to move on is the worst experience. Grinding only covers up the truth, a lack of content, which many of these games used to have, that, and fun with friends, but it isn't fun with friends anymore. We still get destroyed in NM3 Greystone. Having to regrind for gear while working/school is just not doable! You play a game to be entertained and socialize, grinding doesn't promote that.

You realise that you are saying YOUR VERY OWN experience, not some physic law that inevitably applies on everyone, right?

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@Gnuy Niy quote:


@The AX Man quote:


@Spencer1K quote:


@Droelie quote:

Yes it should be fun, even tho i play ONLY WITH FRIENDS, the part you have to redo most part of your grinding hours is still annoying. i dont care about who has the best things, but you have worked for the stats you have and with a single patch its gone, and that goes for most of the players.

"Big deal. It means you get to have fun getting gear again"

Yes that is a big deal, and its not fun if you need to work 200 hours again for a single character to get geared where you were before.  thats called a waste of time, and not even a quality of life change.

I thought the point of this game WAS grinding gear. If your gear is perfect already or you can already clear the hardest content isnt there no point in playing the game anymore? I mean their would be nothing left to do after that.

The fun part of this game is meant to be the gearing process so if you dont find that fun then you dont actually find this game fun so you should probably stop forcing yourself to play for whatever reason...

If they nurf the strongest build, you should change builds. If they reroll your gear then you just re gear again. If you get bored of playing you stop playing. No game can keep you entertained forever after all nor would that be a realistic goal for a game.

Playing a game to GRIND GEAR is never a fun game. Doing the exact same mission over and over again hoping to get the high leveled gear you need to move on is the worst experience. Grinding only covers up the truth, a lack of content, which many of these games used to have, that, and fun with friends, but it isn't fun with friends anymore. We still get destroyed in NM3 Greystone. Having to regrind for gear while working/school is just not doable! You play a game to be entertained and socialize, grinding doesn't promote that.

You realise that you are saying YOUR VERY OWN experience, not some physic law that inevitably applies on everyone, right?

This isn't just my experience, this is every person I have chatted with on the game since I first joined a year ago. Grinding does not keep people playing a game. And me and my friends are far from the only ones getting demolished in game now.

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@The AX Man quote:


@Gnuy Niy quote:


@The AX Man quote:


@Spencer1K quote:


@Droelie quote:

Yes it should be fun, even tho i play ONLY WITH FRIENDS, the part you have to redo most part of your grinding hours is still annoying. i dont care about who has the best things, but you have worked for the stats you have and with a single patch its gone, and that goes for most of the players.

"Big deal. It means you get to have fun getting gear again"

Yes that is a big deal, and its not fun if you need to work 200 hours again for a single character to get geared where you were before.  thats called a waste of time, and not even a quality of life change.

I thought the point of this game WAS grinding gear. If your gear is perfect already or you can already clear the hardest content isnt there no point in playing the game anymore? I mean their would be nothing left to do after that.

The fun part of this game is meant to be the gearing process so if you dont find that fun then you dont actually find this game fun so you should probably stop forcing yourself to play for whatever reason...

If they nurf the strongest build, you should change builds. If they reroll your gear then you just re gear again. If you get bored of playing you stop playing. No game can keep you entertained forever after all nor would that be a realistic goal for a game.

Playing a game to GRIND GEAR is never a fun game. Doing the exact same mission over and over again hoping to get the high leveled gear you need to move on is the worst experience. Grinding only covers up the truth, a lack of content, which many of these games used to have, that, and fun with friends, but it isn't fun with friends anymore. We still get destroyed in NM3 Greystone. Having to regrind for gear while working/school is just not doable! You play a game to be entertained and socialize, grinding doesn't promote that.

You realise that you are saying YOUR VERY OWN experience, not some physic law that inevitably applies on everyone, right?

This isn't just my experience, this is every person I have chatted with on the game since I first joined a year ago. Grinding does not keep people playing a game. And me and my friends are far from the only ones getting demolished in game now.

So here is the thing, the people you chat to are probably those who enjoy talking and playing with other people.

Many of "us" would just go directly to private tavern and start grinding without you noticing, see?

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I just personally don't like having time I put into the game essentially be turned back for me on my character because I was playing early. Like for example, if I just started playing after this update, pretty much nothing would be wrong, but since I was playing before it, time I invested getting good gear for my character was essentially thrown away because what was good before is probably just mediocre now because of the new way passives work.


Like Isom said, if you have a full set of the passive you had before, your numbers would be similar to how they were, but that just begs the question: Why do this then? I get they want to make more desirable loot drops, but effectively forcing us to LOOK FOR NEW LOOT is not the way. Now that may not be what was intended but it's kind of the effect it is having right now.


I know it's easier said than done, but if there's to be more desirable loot, we either need to be able to do something with our current loot that isn't just upgrading good pieces we do happen to find, or there needs to be more legendary affixes or set items (which I think would be a great idea to be honest) not unlike Diablo 3. Which if you're unfamiliar, adds a LOT of fresh feeling gameplay with the way their legendary/set system works (changing skills or making them have uncanny synergy) which is what I think you guys are trying to accomplish with Uber spheres but that doesn't exactly seem to be getting fleshed out and most of the ones that are out seem really dull for the most part outside of Flamethrower towers and maybe Heavy Cannonball.

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@Gnuy Niy quote:


@The AX Man quote:


@Gnuy Niy quote:


@The AX Man quote:


@Spencer1K quote:


@Droelie quote:

Yes it should be fun, even tho i play ONLY WITH FRIENDS, the part you have to redo most part of your grinding hours is still annoying. i dont care about who has the best things, but you have worked for the stats you have and with a single patch its gone, and that goes for most of the players.

"Big deal. It means you get to have fun getting gear again"

Yes that is a big deal, and its not fun if you need to work 200 hours again for a single character to get geared where you were before.  thats called a waste of time, and not even a quality of life change.

I thought the point of this game WAS grinding gear. If your gear is perfect already or you can already clear the hardest content isnt there no point in playing the game anymore? I mean their would be nothing left to do after that.

The fun part of this game is meant to be the gearing process so if you dont find that fun then you dont actually find this game fun so you should probably stop forcing yourself to play for whatever reason...

If they nurf the strongest build, you should change builds. If they reroll your gear then you just re gear again. If you get bored of playing you stop playing. No game can keep you entertained forever after all nor would that be a realistic goal for a game.

Playing a game to GRIND GEAR is never a fun game. Doing the exact same mission over and over again hoping to get the high leveled gear you need to move on is the worst experience. Grinding only covers up the truth, a lack of content, which many of these games used to have, that, and fun with friends, but it isn't fun with friends anymore. We still get destroyed in NM3 Greystone. Having to regrind for gear while working/school is just not doable! You play a game to be entertained and socialize, grinding doesn't promote that.

You realise that you are saying YOUR VERY OWN experience, not some physic law that inevitably applies on everyone, right?

This isn't just my experience, this is every person I have chatted with on the game since I first joined a year ago. Grinding does not keep people playing a game. And me and my friends are far from the only ones getting demolished in game now.

So here is the thing, the people you chat to are probably those who enjoy talking and playing with other people.

Many of "us" would just go directly to private tavern and start grinding without you noticing, see?

So revert back to being anti-social for hours with nobody to talk to? That isn't healthy, and if that is the way I am supposed to play this game, then it is truly done.

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@Wraith666 quote:

1. Yes the patch has altered gear. Big deal. It means you get to have fun getting gear again. 

2. The devs do take on board things that people say and try to do the best they can. 

1. This would be true if the game were more fun in general. It's hard for me to say this, but atm, the game isn't as fun as DD1 is, period. I still have faith in TE, which is why I continue to test the game and provide feedback, but atm, it's not as fun as it's predecessor.

2. Yes, and props to TE for being so involved with us compared to bigger companies. But this isn't 100% true. Two big issues I've noticed people tend to agree with are the melee lunge mechanic needing to go, and the Hero Deck needing to be revamped or removed. They won't budge on either, and they're pretty impactful gameplay features that most seem to disagree with.

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@The AX Man quote:


@Gnuy Niy quote:


@The AX Man quote:


@Gnuy Niy quote:


@The AX Man quote:


@Spencer1K quote:


@Droelie quote:

Yes it should be fun, even tho i play ONLY WITH FRIENDS, the part you have to redo most part of your grinding hours is still annoying. i dont care about who has the best things, but you have worked for the stats you have and with a single patch its gone, and that goes for most of the players.

"Big deal. It means you get to have fun getting gear again"

Yes that is a big deal, and its not fun if you need to work 200 hours again for a single character to get geared where you were before.  thats called a waste of time, and not even a quality of life change.

I thought the point of this game WAS grinding gear. If your gear is perfect already or you can already clear the hardest content isnt there no point in playing the game anymore? I mean their would be nothing left to do after that.

The fun part of this game is meant to be the gearing process so if you dont find that fun then you dont actually find this game fun so you should probably stop forcing yourself to play for whatever reason...

If they nurf the strongest build, you should change builds. If they reroll your gear then you just re gear again. If you get bored of playing you stop playing. No game can keep you entertained forever after all nor would that be a realistic goal for a game.

Playing a game to GRIND GEAR is never a fun game. Doing the exact same mission over and over again hoping to get the high leveled gear you need to move on is the worst experience. Grinding only covers up the truth, a lack of content, which many of these games used to have, that, and fun with friends, but it isn't fun with friends anymore. We still get destroyed in NM3 Greystone. Having to regrind for gear while working/school is just not doable! You play a game to be entertained and socialize, grinding doesn't promote that.

You realise that you are saying YOUR VERY OWN experience, not some physic law that inevitably applies on everyone, right?

This isn't just my experience, this is every person I have chatted with on the game since I first joined a year ago. Grinding does not keep people playing a game. And me and my friends are far from the only ones getting demolished in game now.

So here is the thing, the people you chat to are probably those who enjoy talking and playing with other people.

Many of "us" would just go directly to private tavern and start grinding without you noticing, see?

So revert back to being anti-social for hours with nobody to talk to? That isn't healthy, and if that is the way I am supposed to play this game, then it is truly done.

No one is stopping you to play with your little friend, you simply need understand that someone else might play the game in a different way from you. Someone enjoy playing game on their own or grinding the *** out of the number and there is no evil in it.

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