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Thank you for giving NM it's balls back


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You cut them off in DDE, but finally you are back on track with NM difficulty actually being challenging again.

Oh boy is this going to piss people off, but imo Nightmare difficulty should be just that. It should be punishing and rewarding at the same time.

You should be struggling to get through it and you shouldn't be able to do it every single time, until you have nailed a working strategy for it and not over come it with just higher stats.

So good work.

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I kind of agree with Knows on this.

Can many of you remember Akatiti NMHC, Boss Rush NMHC, Sky City NMHC and CD and WW, all of them you had to have your A game (at least at first before OP event items)

The BIG problem here is we all got lazy we all could do the hardest content with no sweat, carrying n00b pubs if they came on.

The feeling of loss of power is hard but man the f up and deal with it, or don't.

There is a whole lot of dummy spitting and whining.

Trouble is @Trendy maybe 12.5 ramp was "slightly" tough would it have hurt to just add NMZOMG levels.

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While we are on this topic: nm should have the death punishment brought back.  Maybe not as extreme as it was where you were fully locked out til next wave, but maybe something around the lines of each tier of nm = 5 extra seconds in purgatory.  If you are stupid enough to die by doing something wrong, especially at the worst possible moment, then you should feel the unbriddled rage of 3 other party members down your spine as you cost them the match.

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I think that the only reason that NM4 stuff is "HARD" right now is because frost towers are broken at the moment which are a large part of every build on every map.  The frost towers will be fixed and yes NM4 will be a little harder but I don't think it will be that hard.

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+1

@Nogravity2 quote:

I think that the only reason that NM4 stuff is "HARD" right now is because frost towers are broken at the moment which are a large part of every build on every map.  The frost towers will be fixed and yes NM4 will be a little harder but I don't think it will be that hard.


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I don't agree, they are making sure there is only one build for squire, one build for every class, the more gear check the game is, the harder the gear check is, it destroys the verried builds to one build per class, considering how terribly one build the squire is, no matter what they add, the squire will be required to do this one build, being able to fail isn't challenging, when the one strategy the game is designed for will still fail, its just gear check after gear check. This insane of a gear check makes for a very static unchanging game.


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@KnowsNoLimits quote:

You cut them off in DDE, but finally you are back on track with NM difficulty actually being challenging again.

Oh boy is this going to piss people off, but imo Nightmare difficulty should be just that. It should be punishing and rewarding at the same time.

You should be struggling to get through it and you shouldn't be able to do it every single time, until you have nailed a working strategy for it and not over come it with just higher stats.

So good work.

Yea loving the up'd difficulty, I havent had to upgrade my walls in NM4 in months. Yesterday we actually had to to complete 5/5 lol. We completed ramparts and it was insane. Got a Armageddon, to bad it was *** and had DP...... thought that loot *** was fixed sadly I was wrong.


But yea the uped difficulty is very refreshing 

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Wow I'm not going to lie I didn't expect such awesome responses, looks like there's still hope for the DD2 community yet.

@Fozzie quote:

I kind of agree with Knows on this.

Can many of you remember Akatiti NMHC, Boss Rush NMHC, Sky City NMHC and CD and WW, all of them you had to have your A game (at least at first before OP event items)

The BIG problem here is we all got lazy we all could do the hardest content with no sweat, carrying n00b pubs if they came on.

The feeling of loss of power is hard but man the f up and deal with it, or don't.

There is a whole lot of dummy spitting and whining.

Trouble is @Trendy maybe 12.5 ramp was "slightly" tough would it have hurt to just add NMZOMG levels.

Dude I remember Talay Mines as well, so brutal yet so much fun, CD was never fun to me even when I got the build down, I loved WW though. Akatiti was amazing, but still nothing beats Aquanos for me on release.

@Nogravity2 quote:

I think that the only reason that NM4 stuff is "HARD" right now is because frost towers are broken at the moment which are a large part of every build on every map.  The frost towers will be fixed and yes NM4 will be a little harder but I don't think it will be that hard.

Even if Frosts are bugged, the game should be this difficult, hell even more difficult on NM. Ideally I would of loved to see a 50% increase in health and damage to all enemy types, because I'm the type of player that likes to be demolished until I find a strategy that works. Nothing beats the feeling of having a build with average stats dominate just through well thought out placement of your towers.


An effective build to me is when you can do end game content with average to good stats, not make up a poor build but just because you have amazing gear you clear it. Your build could be complete *** and you would never know it.

@Xopo quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:

You cut them off in DDE, but finally you are back on track with NM difficulty actually being challenging again.

Oh boy is this going to piss people off, but imo Nightmare difficulty should be just that. It should be punishing and rewarding at the same time.

You should be struggling to get through it and you shouldn't be able to do it every single time, until you have nailed a working strategy for it and not over come it with just higher stats.

So good work.

Yea loving the up'd difficulty, I havent had to upgrade my walls in NM4 in months. Yesterday we actually had to to complete 5/5 lol. We completed ramparts and it was insane. Got a Armageddon, to bad it was *** and had DP...... thought that loot *** was fixed sadly I was wrong.


But yea the uped difficulty is very refreshing 

That's exactly what I'm talking about, doesn't it feel good to actually have to put effort into maintaining your builds rather then face rolling content?

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@djpatje quote:

ignore this troll

Just because you are butt hurt about this patch's increase in difficulty doesn't mean the rest of us are.

They ***ed up on the loot for NM4 I will give you that, however this is nothing. DD1 is still tougher and more challenging, so I want to see the game head in that direction as much as possible.

If you can't handle that feel free to head back to Insane difficulty.

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Upped difficulty in multiplyer is very refreshing***************


It's pretty obvious most of you play multiplayer.  Nothing wrong with that, but to say that this is across the board good is kind of ridiculous.  Solo play was already much harder prior to the patch since the scaling that was added to "balance" solo and multiplayer happened before everyone had badass DPS characters and the buffs to HD scaling/weapon revamp happened.


Multiplayer was always super easy - I know solo my poison tips huntress can kill a hard lane before it reaches the wall... multiply that by 4, and that's multiplayer! 


And if they want a game where co-op is highly incentivized and solo play in the hardest maps is impossible then that's their prerogative, maybe it's healthier for the game - idk.   But what I do know is that the gap between solo play and multiplayer play is the biggest it's ever have been

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+1

@Pachipachio quote:

Upped difficulty in multiplyer is very refreshing***************


It's pretty obvious most of you play multiplayer.  Nothing wrong with that, but to say that this is across the board good is kind of ridiculous.  Solo play was already much harder prior to the patch since the scaling that was added to "balance" solo and multiplayer happened before everyone had badass DPS characters and the buffs to HD scaling/weapon revamp happened.


Multiplayer was always super easy - I know solo my poison tips huntress can kill a hard lane before it reaches the wall... multiply that by 4, and that's multiplayer! 


And if they want a game where co-op is highly incentivized and solo play in the hardest maps is impossible then that's their prerogative, maybe it's healthier for the game - idk.   But what I do know is that the gap between solo play and multiplayer play is the biggest it's ever have been


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@Pachipachio quote:

Upped difficulty in multiplyer is very refreshing***************


It's pretty obvious most of you play multiplayer.  Nothing wrong with that, but to say that this is across the board good is kind of ridiculous.  Solo play was already much harder prior to the patch since the scaling that was added to "balance" solo and multiplayer happened before everyone had badass DPS characters and the buffs to HD scaling/weapon revamp happened.


Multiplayer was always super easy - I know solo my poison tips huntress can kill a hard lane before it reaches the wall... multiply that by 4, and that's multiplayer! 


And if they want a game where co-op is highly incentivized and solo play in the hardest maps is impossible then that's their prerogative, maybe it's healthier for the game - idk.   But what I do know is that the gap between solo play and multiplayer play is the biggest it's ever have been

Not going to disagree with you there. Solo is certainly at a disadvantage and the HD ***s solo players over like no other.

However when I'm talking about a difficulty increase I'm not talking about artificial limitations to make content hard like the HD. I'm talking about real strategy involved to clear content. Not face roll things with soley high stats.

I personally get bored when I'm not challenged.

Summoner_minimap_icon_c.png

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@djpatje quote:

ignore this troll

Just because you are butt hurt about this patch's increase in difficulty doesn't mean the rest of us are.

They ***ed up on the loot for NM4 I will give you that, however this is nothing. DD1 is still tougher and more challenging, so I want to see the game head in that direction as much as possible.

If you can't handle that feel free to head back to Insane difficulty.

Why are you keep comparing DD2 wtih DD1? They are 2 different games. I dont know about DD1 but, DD2 doesnt need 2million HP kobolds.(you previously said, you would like to see 50% increase in enemy hp and damage) This is a new game. not a remake of DD1 with better graphics. If you want harder waves, play onslaught.

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In that case You should suggest a nm5 difficulty where there is no item drops just harder content. I highly doubt most of the playerbase myself included want to be demolished until the perfect strategy is created. In regards to the 2nd paragraph some players actually like to eventually when their stats are maxed be able to complete it without having to run all over the place, Again like i said if anything Id say trendy should make a nm5 where ipwr difficulty is higher but no drops if thats what you trully want.

EDIT: NM3 definitly needed a diffulty boost as it was much too easy, on average Nm4 was ok, But if your stats are 740 with decent rolls I can't say

Regards

@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@Nogravity2 quote:

I think that the only reason that NM4 stuff is "HARD" right now is because frost towers are broken at the moment which are a large part of every build on every map.  The frost towers will be fixed and yes NM4 will be a little harder but I don't think it will be that hard.

Even if Frosts are bugged, the game should be this difficult, hell even more difficult on NM. Ideally I would of loved to see a 50% increase in health and damage to all enemy types, because I'm the type of player that likes to be demolished until I find a strategy that works. Nothing beats the feeling of having a build with average stats dominate just through well thought out placement of your towers.


An effective build to me is when you can do end game content with average to good stats, not make up a poor build but just because you have amazing gear you clear it. Your build could be complete *** and you would never know it.

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@fplayer quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@djpatje quote:

ignore this troll

Just because you are butt hurt about this patch's increase in difficulty doesn't mean the rest of us are.

They ***ed up on the loot for NM4 I will give you that, however this is nothing. DD1 is still tougher and more challenging, so I want to see the game head in that direction as much as possible.

If you can't handle that feel free to head back to Insane difficulty.

Why are you keep comparing DD2 wtih DD1? They are 2 different games. I dont know about DD1 but, DD2 doesnt need 2million HP kobolds.(you previously said, you would like to see 50% increase in enemy hp and damage) This is a new game. not a remake of DD1 with better graphics.

It's quite simple why I keep comparing the two. DD1 is in a league of it's own and it took time to get there. DD2 needs to take notes to why even now DD1 is being supported and cherished.

Can you honestly say DD2 will be supported as much if they keep ***ing up on such obvious things like the HD?

Yes I would love to see Kobolds that strong.

I enjoyed pre-nerf Spiders, Djinn, Sharkens why? because they were challenging and make it feel like you were in an actual nightmare.

Hell I'm just tired of people crying out to nerf content with out trying to find a way around it.

I remember this best in Palantir where we have 250 million health Ogre Trains and the Bling Lord as I liked to call him had an astronomical amount of health. Yet he got nerfed because of cry babies, same thing happened with the Kraken.


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@๖ۣۜPhoenixX quote:

In that case You should suggest a nm5 difficulty where there is no item drops just harder content. I highly doubt most of the playerbase myself included want to be demolished until the perfect strategy is created. In regards to the 2nd paragraph some players actually like to eventually when their stats are maxed be able to complete it without having to run all over the place, Again like i said if anything Id say trendy should make a nm5 where ipwr difficulty is higher but no drops if thats what you trully want.

EDIT: NM3 definitly needed a diffulty boost as it was much too easy, on average Nm4 was ok, But if your stats are 740 with decent rolls I can't say

Regards


If NMV had no drops why the *** would I care about it?

You don't need the perfect strategy to clear content, but the game needs something more then look at map, place walls in lanes, frosty behind and decide which resists for traps infront of them.

I'm pretty sure I could teach a Chimp to use that strategy.

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No. This is garbage. We all got used to carrying pub noobs because that's all that happens in this game. You have to a group of 4 that you always play with or else your only options are to solo or play with the literally retarded pub noobs. The changes to NM make the end game too prohibitive for the majority of players to ever do.

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I think we are rushing things...Have you guys tried the new weapons and the new potential combos? I know it is frustrating to see that frosties do not work and that nm4 inc is getting really hard to finish. I give the devs a confidence vote before I start being judgemental. I have to farm all these new weps and see how builds (hopefully) get better with those. Honestly, the passives look great on those weps so who knows maybe there is a new or several meta around the corner. Cheers.

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Anger Comments? ok.   Do you read your own ***.   You want to be able to beat a level with the perfect strategy with average to ok stats.   Then why do you need drops You DONT NEED *** youll have average  stats  from nm4..  Learn to beat the harder difficulty with your strategy the End.


True the game needs more strategy other then walls/frosties/mines.   The meta sucks Doesnt mean to up the HP and Damage YET again.  Yes some people can clear nm4 inc...  Those some have a dedicated groups usually and some very very decent gear.   What about anyone pre nm1,  they need to get perfect insane gear to barely get past nm1 and then need perfect nm1 gear to get past nm2 etc (prob needing a group with them )at least can't say for sure as the patch was just released needs to still be tested.   


The difficulty has gone up but the stats havnt changed,

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@fplayer quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@djpatje quote:

ignore this troll

Just because you are butt hurt about this patch's increase in difficulty doesn't mean the rest of us are.

They ***ed up on the loot for NM4 I will give you that, however this is nothing. DD1 is still tougher and more challenging, so I want to see the game head in that direction as much as possible.

If you can't handle that feel free to head back to Insane difficulty.

Why are you keep comparing DD2 wtih DD1? They are 2 different games. I dont know about DD1 but, DD2 doesnt need 2million HP kobolds.(you previously said, you would like to see 50% increase in enemy hp and damage) This is a new game. not a remake of DD1 with better graphics.

It's quite simple why I keep comparing the two. DD1 is in a league of it's own and it took time to get there. DD2 needs to take notes to why even now DD1 is being supported and cherished.

Can you honestly say DD2 will be supported as much if they keep ***ing up on such obvious things like the HD?

Yes I would love to see Kobolds that strong.

I enjoyed pre-nerf Spiders, Djinn, Sharkens why? because they were challenging and make it feel like you were in an actual nightmare.

Hell I'm just tired of people crying out to nerf content with out trying to find a way around it.

I remember this best in Palantir where we have 250 million health Ogre Trains and the Bling Lord as I liked to call him had an astronomical amount of health. Yet he got nerfed because of cry babies, same thing happened with the Kraken.


I understand your problem. you want a challenge, i get it but, i dont think increasing enemy hp or nerfing people's items is not the answer. 250m hp ogre today 500m tomorrow. where does it end? higher difficulty shouldnt mean "same thing but with more hp and more damage" developers should make the game harder without 250M hp ogres


for dd1, you can check how many players are playing dd1 here https://steamdb.info/app/65800/graphs/

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I think there's definitely aspects of the current difficulty curve that need to be tweaked, but I agree with the sentiment here.  I enjoy that NM is harder overall and that you need to have decently setup people to conquer the levels.  I was a little salty when I couldn't beat the levels by myself anymore, but getting/making a group that could beat it became more satisfying than ever before.

I feel like the fix should be to make the normal NM4 difficulty more solo-able than it's current form, but leave the incursion and onslaught the way it is to encourage group play for the hardest content.

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I think you are trying to complete nm4 with the old gear. but hey there are new passives and new weps out there. Maybe if we use those, things will get better. don't know just guessing....

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@fplayer quote:


snip

I understand your problem. you want a challenge, i get it but, i dont think increasing enemy hp or nerfing people's items is not the answer. 250m hp ogre today 500m tomorrow. where does it end? higher difficulty shouldnt mean "same thing but with more hp and more damage" developers should make the game harder without 250M hp ogres


for dd1, you can check how many players are playing dd1 here https://steamdb.info/app/65800/graphs/

Maybe 1 Billion Ogres? Emoji_Ogre.png

Tbh I rather see new enemy types come into the game to keep you on your toes.

Like the Dark Assassin. I hope he brings with him alot of rage when he is finally released.

Well DD1 actually got a new content patch this week, driven by the community and implemented by Trendy and more to come. Jester even got new Towers.

@Elandrian quote:

I think there's definitely aspects of the current difficulty curve that need to be tweaked, but I agree with the sentiment here.  I enjoy that NM is harder overall and that you need to have decently setup people to conquer the levels.

I feel like the fix should be to make the normal NM4 difficulty more solo-able than it's current form, but leave the incursion and onslaught the way it is to encourage group play for the hardest content.

Exactly.

NM4 should be like NM in DD1 and NM4 Incursion should be like NM HC MM.

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