Looking at Loot

So after few more days and exchanging experience with others...

The current RNG changes which has been introduced to "fix" some things... no clue at all what exactly has been done. A few people have the feeling that camp rewards has been worse... there is the feeling that we get much more godlies than ever before and in case it's an ult, it is junk anyways due to extremely low upgrades compared to pre-cdt#1.

Tinkerer's Lab Insane is giving completely odd. Blasters are always at 10 Base Damage... Chickens have a much higher likelihood to spawn with Base Damage less than 10k. I never had that bad chickens :(

Akatiti... just boo... haven't got a mediocre (330^+) ult obsidian in "ages". If it's an ult, it has 200-240 ups, even ult+.

That being said... ult (in a way more often regularity) is dropping on Moonbase/Bay but also with 200-250^ so basically junk anyways. Why do we need to change the RNG as a whole? Anyone remembers how well giving was Kings Game at release and got nerfed later? We didn't had screwed up other parts of the game... just Kings was dropping much better... while the map specific multipliers got adjusted.

Survivals are dropping more Sup/Ult than before BUT haven't seen double-capping nor close to double-capping Trans in my survival runs. Assuming that the quality judgment says now... that's Sup/Ult rather than Trans. Exactly this should not happen... forces people to Level up their heroes, even though Level 78 to 83 isn't such a big deal but still... makes it a lil higher barrier for them.

However, I'll collect more experience...

There were two fixes applied to the loot generator in update #1 (and much to my embarrassment, both created their own issues. Lessons learned...). If anything, loot quality has slightly increased because of some unintended side effects.

They were:
1) Preventing the four extra weapon stats (eg. reload) that are stored as bytes generating outside the range of values that a byte can store.
--- Previously these could generate into the thousands, making the value change between what was shown on the ground and what was in the item box (directly rewarded items also got the same issue, it just all happened before you saw it).
--- As a result of this fix, positive values for these stats are now significantly more common (particularly good for stave farming)
--- Also the origin of the bug causing sub mythical weapons to end up as godly in the current version far too commonly because of a misplaced multiplier

2) Preventing the creation of items with every single stat forced to its maximum value when generated from chests or in the tavern shop
--- This did decrease the apparent quality for several of the *original* weapons.
--- No items that have any chance of being farmed had their quality decreased by this

The rating system hasn't changed at all for myth+ items (the system didn't change for sub-myth either, but that extra multiplier on the weapon stats is throwing a wrench in the works). If you're getting more >myth items, the average rolls are higher.

10 damage, 1/1 upgrade,  and 1 ammo items will die for good in the second update (ok, 1/1 won't die completely, but it certainly won't show up anywhere near as often).
--- The high frequency of these values is caused by the randomiser generating a *negative* value because of improper item setup

Loot generator changes are made when it is not possible to fix from anywhere else (#1), or fixing will require checking through every item type (fixing each one individually also requires verifying that it's fixed for each individual item type. For ~500 items, the time taken to fix and check each fix is rather large and the chance of human error is rather high).

Well good luck with the RnG, sounds like a can of worms.

Been playing the last few days with Eagle, Mongoose, and a few other lifers.

Did Temple of Love NMHC, accs were 53 mana specials, and pretty much all neg values.  Rest of loot was something you would expect from easy.

Aka, myth glad 117 ups on NMHC, rest of that loot was junk. 

Sky city survival NMHC (cat run) went to wave 25, seen 1 myth piece with capping speed, all other stats could probably be beat by a deeper well insane survival, and wasn't 1 piece on the ground worth picking up, even if you were a new lvl 74 guy.

I know random is supposed to mean just that.  If there is anything in particular that can help you, let me know, and I can take screeners if you want.

Not ranting here, just trying to give some feedback and what I have seen past few days.

Edit - when I say junk, to me that's below a middle of the road myth, as I will usually pick them up and hand out to new players pub surfing that don't have NM DLC.

Cheers

This is really difficult to respond to because there's not a lot you as a player (/group of players) can do to provide evidence that it's more than just "RNG hates my guts this week". I've spent a good chunk of time over the last week checking through any changes that could have affected equipment in particular, and what Eagle has said corresponds well to what I'm expecting + a little bad luck. From that, I do feel confident in saying that it's just the RNG being RNG (but again, no evidence either way...).

@anotherengineer quote:

Been playing the last few days with Eagle, Mongoose, and a few other lifers.

I hope I'm not thinking of the same Mongoose, because the one that I know had a ton of hacked armor in his shop, and the people in RnG tried to find enough evidence to get him banned.

@CrzyRndm quote:

This is really difficult to respond to because there's not a lot you as a player (/group of players) can do to provide evidence that it's more than just "RNG hates my guts this week". I've spent a good chunk of time over the last week checking through any changes that could have affected equipment in particular, and what Eagle has said corresponds well to what I'm expecting + a little bad luck. From that, I do feel confident in saying that it's just the RNG being RNG (but again, no evidence either way...).

True, changes to the RNG are always hard to judge due to randomness even though more and more players I talked with are sharing that feeling. Just yesterday after I mocked about Tinkerers I've got my best Blaster while joining Hippos chicken run.

And I had to type this 3 times again due to the great forums -.- I forgot something as my previous intended replies were much longer... I'm getting old :/

@Caimen0 quote:

@anotherengineer quote:

Been playing the last few days with Eagle, Mongoose, and a few other lifers.

I hope I'm not thinking of the same Mongoose, because the one that I know had a ton of hacked armor in his shop, and the people in RnG tried to find enough evidence to get him banned.

I don't think so.  Think that was the toon name and not steam name.  I try to take a look at everyone's gear on them and their tavern before running with them, if I don't know them.  Of course my ability to detect hacked gear is not as good as the people here, I can get a general idea if it's possibly hacked at least.  Speaking of which, when I see really obvious stuff I usually take screeners of the items, the player and steam id.  Is there somewhere I should be directing that information to??

Thanks

Head over >here< and submit a report a player request for DD1. Include the SID and whatever evidence you have on them

@Caimen0 quote:

Head over >here< and submit a report a player request for DD1. Include the SID and whatever evidence you have on them

Link gave me a server not found.

This here is the correct link.

Go to Submit a request at the top bar. Fill in the form, describe the hack, provide the Steam Profile link of the suspicious player, add screenshots / videos as evidence and finally submit your request.

@EagleOne quote:

This here is the correct link.

Go to Submit a request at the top bar. Fill in the form, describe the hack, provide the Steam Profile link of the suspicious player, add screenshots / videos as evidence and finally submit your request.

Curse you and your link :)  Or rather all the hackers instead I guess.

I have read the 'bar loot' posts here and thaught i'd share my impressions of this patch so far:

I have not done a ton of farming, but i have done 3 survival nmhcmm runs on bucaneer bay. First run got me to wave 32. I got 2 ult and 4 supreme in that run. One ult being a pretty good tower piece, the other was the best dps piece i have gotten in my DD career. Supremes were nothing special. From all the other drops i prettymuch only looked at trans pieces. These were prettymuch the same as I know them from KingsGame. Second run got me to wave 28 where steam went offline. I got 1 ult 3 supreme all nothing special, trans drops were as usual. Third run got me to wave 23 where my game crashed (nothing to do with dd). In this run 1 supreme dropped but i couldn't pick it up sadly because of the cash.

In conclusion i would say i did not see any surprises in my runs. I just got more ult and supreme than on an average kingsgame run, which did not really surprise me, since its rng. But judging on the trans items i would say nothing has changed.

All the runs were done with 4 summoners out, so only armor cannot say anything about weapon drops.

@Martiman89 quote:

I have read the 'bar loot' posts here and thaught i'd share my impressions of this patch so far:

I have not done a ton of farming, but i have done 3 survival nmhcmm runs on bucaneer bay. First run got me to wave 32. I got 2 ult and 4 supreme in that run. One ult being a pretty good tower piece, the other was the best dps piece i have gotten in my DD career. Supremes were nothing special. From all the other drops i prettymuch only looked at trans pieces. These were prettymuch the same as I know them from KingsGame. Second run got me to wave 28 where steam went offline. I got 1 ult 3 supreme all nothing special, trans drops were as usual. Third run got me to wave 23 where my game crashed (nothing to do with dd). In this run 1 supreme dropped but i couldn't pick it up sadly because of the cash.

In conclusion i would say i did not see any surprises in my runs. I just got more ult and supreme than on an average kingsgame run, which did not really surprise me, since its rng. But judging on the trans items i would say nothing has changed.

All the runs were done with 4 summoners out, so only armor cannot say anything about weapon drops.

Keep in mind you speak of new patch map, and from my knowledge it has noticably better drops than other survivals.

@BorchTrzyKawki quote:Keep in mind you speak of new patch map, and from my knowledge it has noticably better drops than other survivals.

No, it is in line with other Bonus Maps.

@EagleOne quote:

No, it is in line with other Bonus Maps.

Well i didnt play much survivals after cdt patches, but to my memories i didnt get more than one sup/ult from kings game full run with 4 toons in. After patch buccener seemed to give me 1 + ult per run and sup every 3-4 waves after wave 22 or so.

@BorchTrzyKawki quote:Well i didnt play much survivals after cdt patches, but to my memories i didnt get more than one sup/ult from kings game full run with 4 toons in. After patch buccener seemed to give me 1 + ult per run and sup every 3-4 waves after wave 22 or so.

Yes and yes. Since the RNG changes Sup/Ult is dropping like candy on survivals.

Think I found another bug.

Started a new with some lvl 1's, wanted some pets so did foundries and forges easy HC, and all pets spawned at lvl 70.  Tried again easy no HC, and got lvl 17 and 22 pets.

Tried deeper well easy survival and got two lvl 17 and two lvl 22 pets, repeated on easy but with HC and all pets spawned at lvl 70, even though stats were about a lvl 22 pet.

So a possible bug, or does setting a survival to HC automatically make pets spawn at lvl 70 minimum regardless of map and difficulty??

Thanks

@EagleOne quote:

@BorchTrzyKawki quote:Well i didnt play much survivals after cdt patches, but to my memories i didnt get more than one sup/ult from kings game full run with 4 toons in. After patch buccener seemed to give me 1 + ult per run and sup every 3-4 waves after wave 22 or so.

Yes and yes. Since the RNG changes Sup/Ult is dropping like candy on survivals.

Pardon the necro, Eagle.. I'm only recently getting back into checking these forums.  I'm curious about the RNG changes you're talking about.  Was there a ninja change to loot RNG in the CDT update?  I didn't see anything in the patch notes, unless it was umbrella'd under "quality of life" changes.

Thanks for any info.

@Vetokend quote:

@EagleOne quote:

@BorchTrzyKawki quote:Well i didnt play much survivals after cdt patches, but to my memories i didnt get more than one sup/ult from kings game full run with 4 toons in. After patch buccener seemed to give me 1 + ult per run and sup every 3-4 waves after wave 22 or so.

Yes and yes. Since the RNG changes Sup/Ult is dropping like candy on survivals.

Pardon the necro, Eagle.. I'm only recently getting back into checking these forums.  I'm curious about the RNG changes you're talking about.  Was there a ninja change to loot RNG in the CDT update?  I didn't see anything in the patch notes, unless it was umbrella'd under "quality of life" changes.

Thanks for any info.

The were was a change that ended up affecting drops.  While I wouldn't say they drop like candy, they are dropping more frequently which some have enjoyed.  It has made survivals more viable again.  However there will be a fix for this in the next update when we can get it out.

@ddace quote:

The were was a change that ended up affecting drops.  While I wouldn't say they drop like candy, they are dropping more frequently which some have enjoyed.  It has made survivals more viable again.  However there will be a fix for this in the next update when we can get it out.

Understood, thanks.  Fix or no fix, I think it would be good for more difficult maps to have a higher chance of dropping supremes/ult, instead of everything past aqua/kings being the same.

^this. When 6k is required to reach the 35th wave I think the map should be better than aqua.

@ddace quote:

While I wouldn't say they drop like candy, they are dropping more frequently which some have enjoyed.

*For some people.

I and several others have attempted multiple survival runs since the update launched and have gotten absolutely nothing from any survival map.

This is assuming we're talking about armor. Weapons do drop pretty frequently.

@EagleOne quote:
Palantir NMHC Wave 18-30 (2 Summoners)

7 Supremes, 1 Ultimate
4 Supremes, 1 Ultimate

Kings Game NMHC Wave 18-30 (2 Summoners)
3 Supremes, 2 Ultimates (3rd Feb)

Tavern Defense NMHC Wave 18-35 (2 Summoners)
4 Supremes, 2 Ultimates

Winter Wonderland NMHC Wave 18-35 (2 Summoners)
3 Supremes, 2 Ultimates
6 Supremes, 4 Ultimates (31st Jan)

Buccaneer Bay NMHC Wave 18-35 (2 Summoners)
7 Supremes, 3 Ultimates
4 Supremes, 1 Ultimate

I have a question.

When a golden enemy is spawned, since it is pretty buffed compared to a regular enemy, when defeated, can it drop a slightly buffed item??  Like say 15% better than average stats??  Or No negative values?

Or is it just run of the mill item?  If so would it be difficult and/or would the CDT consider adding a multiplier to items dropped from Golden enemies??  Maybe add the word "Golden" to the begging of the item name to give it that uniqueness or something?

Below NM difficulty, IIRC there is a slight bump. NM enemy loot scaling has already hit its caps and is not affected by the gold buff