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CrzyRndm

Djinn Casting Review

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While hunting an issue with aura effects not being consistently removed, I have came across a rather "interesting" problem with how the djinn de-summoning and golding casting duration are handled. To put it simply, djinn inside an ensnare aura have their casting times dramatically reduced. Now, this issue has been rectified (to be included in our second update) but we are still left with two wildly different durations for both golding other enemies and de-summoning towers.

Instead of just trying to choose one, this presents an opportunity to have a small review of the djinn's casting abilities. Currently up for debate is the casting time, cool down period, and casting range of both abilities, although feel free to expand on that (within reason)

NOTE: There is no need to settle on a single value for any of these. Scaling by enemy power, map, and/or difficulty settings are all possibilities even if they don't currently

For reference: (times are in seconds, range is in the same units as tower range)

g6OeVV7.jpg

Edit:
For a fixed comparison, the casting radius around a hero is 7.0 units (14.0 unit diameter). You can also build scaled down auras and/or traps (their size can be shrunk with the (-) key in 10% intervals)

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ok, Short version then:

  • I found a bug which significantly reduces the casting time for djinn inside an ensnare aura
  • The old values are so different that neither can just be used going forward
  • Since I have to evaluate the abilities from scratch, it seems like a good idea to check on the range and cooldown at the same time

I thought people might be interested in contributing to that evaluation.

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For example, this is a quick overview of my current thoughts on this:

From a nightmare perspective, the majority of times the desummon casting is used will be inside an ensnare, while the golding will be mostly used outside. Therefore the final casting times should be close to the (bugged) 10s for the desummon and 4.5 for the golding. Outside nightmare, djinn on the few maps they spawn on can be very difficult to deal with without nightmare tier equipment due to their high health. Perhaps the time's could be increased with difficulty?

The fixed range of the desummon troubles me somewhat. In nightmare gas traps are used to counter this ability, but in lower difficulties you won't have anything like the stats required to gas a djinn trying to desummon the gas (450-500 trap range required).

Golding range doesn't really affect anything (it's basically just a follow distance), but the increased enemy power could also be quite significant at lower difficulties. Limiting the frequency (increasing cooldown) of ally buffing based on difficulty, particularly since the djinn have more time to buff enemies with the slower movement speeds should help make them less potent

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Summarised:

Tower desummon (E / M / H / I / N)

Cast time: 20.0 / 20.0 / 18.0 / 16.0 / 10-12

Range: 5.0 / 5.5 / 6.0 / 7.0 / 10.5

Cooldown: 18.0


Enemy Golding (E / M / H / I / N)

Cast Time: 5.0 / 5.0 / 4.5 / 4.0 / 3.0

Range : 12.0

Cooldown: 15.0 / 15.0 / 12.0 / 8.0 / 3.0

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I'm still confused about

@CrzyRndm quote:
  • I found a bug which significantly reduces the casting time for djinn inside an ensnare aura

..how is that a bug ? It makes sense for an ensnare aura to slow things/stuff down. <.<

Anyway, if I understand this right, you'd like to nerf Djinns for <NM difficulties, while keeping the current values pretty much the same just for NM difficulty. I can second to this, as I recall the struggle with Djinns rekting my defences in the early-myth stages.

Also I'd like to add some thought to goldening enemies. While the current golden(ed) enemies are not much of a bigger threat than regular enemies (maybe with exception of early NM maps with lower stated heroes or late survival waves), how about considering buffing the golden status boost, like adding more hp, increasing damage resistance or even buff more their damage and maybe make them immune to effects of Jester's wheel powers. As of now, whenever I or most of the people here see some golden enemy, they be like "Meh..whatever.", instead of "Oh, watch out!" - which is that kind of approach I'd expect from a special mob. And also, I always wished to see golden Ogres or Sharkens walking around frequently without the need to roll Golden Enemies with fortuna wheel, so maybe considering adding them as a buffable enemy for NM difficulties, eh? <.<

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Reduces as in things happen (much) faster, not slower like you seem to be thinking. Desummoning outside an ensnare takes close to 20 seconds, inside is only 10.

The low threat levels for golden enemies is also a good point. I just checked, and a possible reason for this is that it looks to be a fixed offset for each difficulty (ie. relatively more effect on easier enemies than hard ones). It is the same offsets for both the wheel and djinn though (the difference is probably the volume of buffed enemies and that it can hit the other shards mobs. It's still meant to be blocked on ogres though).

EDIT

Confirming that the golding power boost currently doesn't scale. An orc golded in nightmare will always have a health increase of 144k, no matter how much health it originally had (similar trend with damage). This is rather broken early (gold orc's in DW campaign jump in HP and damage by almost 10x) and totally ineffective late game.

To correct this I intend to change this over to a percentage increase (probably +200-400% power for nightmare (3-5x), scaling down for lesser difficulties)

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Ooh, I get it now.. that's very odd. I've never noticed the difference and always assumed it's the same, good find then indeed.

As for the golden enemies, you say it's not possible to make Ogres not restricted from being goldened?

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The ogres comment was in response to:

@Sir NoVa quote:I always wished to see golden Ogres or Sharkens walking around frequently without the need to roll Golden Enemies with fortuna wheel

ie. If WoF can produce golden ogres, then the current implementation is not functioning as intended.

Making it so ogres can be gold is not a problem, but whether they should be is another question. The gold bonus has been corrected to be extremely potent in all maps, and for survival as well as campaign. Considering lifting restrictions on which enemies can be targeted for golding will be on hold until feedback on the new buff strength is received, and ogres would be right at the end of that list as they are already orders of magnitude more powerful than any other non-boss enemy.

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Oh yes, sounds reasonable. As for the changes, are you going to add them in the current beta build or in the following one, as I'm now curious how this will affect the gameplay.

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All changes at this point will be for the next update. Beta builds are for tweaking existing fixes and content to get it ready for the primary branch, adding new untested changes at this point will only further delay that release.

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