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@Nazgren quote:


@Pachipachio quote:


@Nazgren quote:


@Pachipachio quote:


@Nazgren quote:

Hero Deck is fine. If you can't do it with the characters you have then find a better way of doing it. Simple. People managed fine in DD1 with less builders and nerfed towers if you switched to a DPS hero and that game took more strategy then DD2 does.

Yeah guys!  The point of the game should be about doing it.  That's it.  I'm doing it and having no issues


Stop talking about having fun or whatever 


Emoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.png

Its fun if there's a challenge. Being able to have a hero dedicated to every single tower would make this game too easy which makes it boring.

How would it make it too easy?  Let's get specific, I'm in NM4 greystone plaza with a traps/frosty build.  Use 2 frosty per lane + a wall and the rest of the DU goes into traps.  How do I make that map too easy with an unlimited hero deck?


From what I can tell this means you do a level with only 2 builders. Why does this mean you need more then 4 characters?

Well, 3 builders and a dps.  But you're right....................... I don't need more than 4 heroes to clear all of the content.  


Third time I'm saying it in this very thread - let alone the dozen+ hero deck threads this has been covered.  It isn't about difficulty, it's about fun.


Hero deck is just annoying and pointlessly limiting.  


Now, can you answer - how, exactly, will the game get too easy if the hero deck were removed?  What would people do with their DU that would be so much more efficient than now?

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Waller is mandatory in Endgame that's one slot taken.

Then you have a choice of either a Traptress, frosty/flamethrower Apprentice 2 slots gone and 1 to go. Next is the biggest decision of all, do you go with a Monk and gain Evil Purge Serenity, Monk Boost to walls and anti-air tower? or do you go a DPS Huntress with ya know DPS out the ass and you are the Anti-Air crowd control.

No matter what you choose you best like repairing.

Oh and Witherbeasts will become your best friends. :P

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@Pachipachio quote:

Well, 3 builders and a dps.  But you're right....................... I don't need more than 4 heroes to clear all of the content.  

Third time I'm saying it in this very thread - let alone the dozen+ hero deck threads this has been covered.  It isn't about difficulty, it's about fun.

Hero deck is just annoying and pointlessly limiting.  

Now, can you answer - how, exactly, will the game get too easy if the hero deck were removed?  What would people do with their DU that would be so much more efficient than now?

If you can complete a level with 4 or less heroes then a 4 hero limit is NOT limiting. It does not hinder you in any way.

Yes, Lets take an imaginary player called Bob. The hero deck gets removed. Bob will now make 16 heroes, 4 of each class.

Squire 1 will optimize his stats and spheres to fully benefit the Harpoon tower

Squire 2 will optimize his stats and spheres to fully benefit the Cannonball tower.

Squire 3 will optimize his stats and spheres to fully benefit the Spiked Barricade.

I could go on for all 16 heroes but I'm pretty sure you see where its going. By being limited to lets say, one App, I have to balance my stats and spheres to get tower optimisation across the board. If I throw all my stats at my Fireburst then my ice tower is going to suffer. This makes the game a balancing act, trading effectiveness in one tower for another, deciding how good one tower needs to be compared to another. Bob doesnt have this issue. He can make a character that is capable of making each tower as OP as it can possibly be without suffering any adverse effects, because he has other characters that can make the other towers that are also as OP. With the hero deck removed the Sphere system becomes utterly pointless, as rather then taking, say, a Ultra fire tower sphere and large Ice sphere to keep both towers at a useable level,  You can just make one character with all fireburst tower spheres and another with all iceburst tower spheres and change for each different tower. Without a hero deck you may as well just give each hero the same stats and remove items and spheres, because a lack of hero deck renders them both utterly pointless. That Is why removing the hero deck would make it easier. You will give each player the ability to use every sphere simultaneously and fully optimize every tower. This would be OP.

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Stop complaining about the hero deck.


just remove it, balance all classes to be playable and just leave the option to change the class before 1.round starts to pick good lineup BEFORE the map starts and destroy all buildings when you change the hero who build it automatically.

thx, ggwp, glhf, cya!

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@Nazgren quote:


@Pachipachio quote:


@Nazgren quote:

Hero Deck is fine. If you can't do it with the characters you have then find a better way of doing it. Simple. People managed fine in DD1 with less builders and nerfed towers if you switched to a DPS hero and that game took more strategy then DD2 does.

Yeah guys!  The point of the game should be about doing it.  That's it.  I'm doing it and having no issues


Stop talking about having fun or whatever 


Emoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.png

Its fun if there's a challenge. Being able to have a hero dedicated to every single tower would make this game too easy which makes it boring.

This is a ridiculous argument that everyone keeps making. First why would you have a specialized hero for every tower? You clearly don't like the idea so why would you do it? Second how does it make the game boring for you if I have 20 heroes all specialized? Because DU and the fact that you get your own chest of mana prevents my 20 builders from doing everything unless you want me to. Finally and probably the real issue, lets just say that 20 heroes makes a big difference on how easy the game is. Not on weather you can beat the endgame but how easy it is to do it. Is it fair to say that most of the people that support the "boring" argument are actually mad that I would be farming more effectively? Also If I took the time to level and gear 20 heroes (which I could never do) do I not deserve to have it easier after all that grinding?

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@Chappyy quote:

This is a ridiculous argument that everyone keeps making. First why would you have a specialized hero for every tower? You clearly don't like the idea so why would you do it? Second how does it make the game boring for you if I have 20 heroes all specialized? Because DU and the fact that you get your own chest of mana prevents my 20 builders from doing everything unless you want me to. Finally and probably the real issue, lets just say that 20 heroes makes a big difference on how easy the game is. Not on weather you can beat the endgame but how easy it is to do it. Is it fair to say that most of the people that support the "boring" argument are actually mad that I would be farming more effectively? Also If I took the time to level and gear 20 heroes (which I could never do) do I not deserve to have it easier after all that grinding?

I Would not do it because it would be far too easy and far too boring. Everyone that wants the hero deck removed would.That is why they want it removed. It would make it boring for me because I have to put up with "Give me easy loot because the game is too hard" people like you in public games. DU and mana is irrelevant because everyone should give there mana to the best builder and let him build. It cant work any other way because in a public lobby people would take as much DU as they could without paying any attention to how much the other lanes need. In a private lobby you shouldn't need to resort to having 20 fully optimized characters to win. But it would make a big difference on whether or not you could complete it. This is the big issue. It would open the way for people who haven't got a clue how to build, people who I have seen all to often since release, who place towers where they cant do anything, who place far too many towers on easy lanes and nowhere near enough towers on harder lanes, to complete endgame content that they have neither the skill nor the practice to do. It lets skill-less people who put 0 thought into there strategy win end game content, That's what people don't like.

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@Nazgren quote:


@Chappyy quote:

This is a ridiculous argument that everyone keeps making. First why would you have a specialized hero for every tower? You clearly don't like the idea so why would you do it? Second how does it make the game boring for you if I have 20 heroes all specialized? Because DU and the fact that you get your own chest of mana prevents my 20 builders from doing everything unless you want me to. Finally and probably the real issue, lets just say that 20 heroes makes a big difference on how easy the game is. Not on weather you can beat the endgame but how easy it is to do it. Is it fair to say that most of the people that support the "boring" argument are actually mad that I would be farming more effectively? Also If I took the time to level and gear 20 heroes (which I could never do) do I not deserve to have it easier after all that grinding?

I Would not do it because it would be far too easy and far too boring. Everyone that wants the hero deck removed would.That is why they want it removed. It would make it boring for me because I have to put up with "Give me easy loot because the game is too hard" people like you in public games. DU and mana is irrelevant because everyone should give there mana to the best builder and let him build. It cant work any other way because in a public lobby people would take as much DU as they could without paying any attention to how much the other lanes need. In a private lobby you shouldn't need to resort to having 20 fully optimized characters to win. But it would make a big difference on whether or not you could complete it. This is the big issue. It would open the way for people who haven't got a clue how to build, people who I have seen all to often since release, who place towers where they cant do anything, who place far too many towers on easy lanes and nowhere near enough towers on harder lanes, to complete endgame content that they have neither the skill nor the practice to do. It lets skill-less people who put 0 thought into there strategy win end game content, That's what people don't like.

Ok so number one I think it is ignorant to say I want the hero deck removed because I want the game easier. I don't want the game easier, I want the game more fun.

"It would open the way for people who haven't got a clue how to build, people who I have seen all to often since release,"

Ok so those people are here now so how does the  lack of a hero deck make that happen? If anything one could argue it causes that based on your statement.  Also as you stated earlier those people wouldn't effect you because and I quote "everyone should give there mana to the best builder and let him build." so why would you give your mana to a "clueless" person?


"It lets skill-less people who put 0 thought into there strategy win end game content, That's what people don't like." The people that make these builds put a lot of thought into them and are already capable of doing well. They simple enjoy making builds and trying to find new ways to do it. Your assumptions or should I say accusations of "dumb" people doing these things doesn't hold up. Only someone that really loves this game would take the time to make all these heroes. Calling players dumb is not a good argument to keeping the hero deck especially when you open with how many dumb people you deal with already.

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@playlessNamer quote:

Its so fckn boring to have a hero to do just 1 single thing and max the stat on this hero just for this 1 thing. Thats stupidity in perfection.

No one is making you do that. Unless you count that hearty blockade is required for endgame.

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@T.G.B. quote:

What a colossal waste of time... If you spent all this time complaining about something that mattered, maybe appropriate attention would be on that issue instead, and we'd be seeing coming fixes to that.


Instead, you guys can't... seem... to put the square piece... into that... triangle hole... no matter how hard you try...


You want a DPS'er? Good. Make a DPS'er.

Now make 3 builders.

Ta-da!!!!


Go find someone whose 3 builders includes that one single class that yours doesn't, and together, you got the whole squad!

All it takes is two people.

And if you only play solo... then, well, the game should be easy enough anyway. I managed with unstatted Poison Darts serving as walls. I'm pretty sure someone with a geared 4-slotted hero deck can figure out a way to make it all come together, right?

troll. continue playing normal mode or nightmare1 .because of you not-knowing-about-endgame-players trendyteam think other things are more important than increasing deck sizee +balancing towers. 

most of the players here are casual players who want to spend one hour each day maximum in that game. they dont play nightmare 4, they join already opened games where often good builders are in already, they dont have a clue how hard it is to build proper, to collect that correct gear and so on.

those leechers start crying about new outfits and new gamemodes... all too easy, right. because of those we got an even more difficult spooky event. now its not managable anymore. they could have kept it ingame for even half a year- as long as they dont balance towers finally and DECREASE hp of special mobs instead of increasing we dont need anything new. im tired of grinding the first 3 waves of nightmare 4 maps like greystone plaza to hope for one single good mythical item. i want to finish nightmare4 maps and hope for good chests in the end.

no one needs loot changes, balance towers that you dont need to play with traps, let the frost tower also buff towers in its range not in enemies range, and so on and so on. we are not stuck before nightmare 3 we are stuck IN nightmare 4 +incursion. show me how you finish that game modes with unequipped poison dart towers as walls.. i got a perfect gear for that and it was only the half of hearty blockades health. so shut up before you dont know what you are talking about. troll.



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So this is the kind of thread a person posts when they want attention and likes.

Sheesh.


Threads like these are even more pointless than usual, considering this is a game that needs input from its players to grow and become better and more fun. You can't just stifle an entire large and vocal section of players, growing in number btw as they come to NM (or the more wise ones feeling it or seeing it well before it became a more prominent issue), and tell them they are not to complain any longer. The whole point of the alpha forums is input to improve the game further. Ignoring important issues is what kills the game, not add more thrills.

Sure. You can ignore issues cropping up that you do not like. But then people get fed up, bored, and leave, possibly to come back when it's 'fixed', but then most people don't come back, as they find something else that's actually fun that they put time into and receives them well. If you don't want to kill the game, you simply need to work with others on making it fun for everyone.

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@KnowsNoLimits quote:

No matter what you choose you best like repairing. 

I do like repairing.

Repairing efficiently is another skill that I have to test and become better at. Seeing which towers need it, which ones I can let take a little bit more damage. Cancel-juggling to keep multiple towers up. All while jumping around to different lanes AND dealing DPS to enemies.


It's a skill. It's challenging. I like it.

----

My OP wasn't a vastly planned argument to make people stop complaining about hero decks, lol. It was more of a cry of frustration to let people know this side of the fence exists.

----

@MegaHamster7 quote:

If we don't complain and let them know we think it's the stupidest idea in the game they'll never remove it and fix the issue.

That's just it!

THAT'S the problem that I'm talking about!


The fact that you think it's "the stupidest idea in the game".

THAT, to me, is COMPLETELY absurd. I can't even put it into words how ridiculous I feel it is that you think a slight inconvenience that can be worked around is actually the stupidest idea in the game.

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@T.G.B. quote:


@KnowsNoLimits quote:

No matter what you choose you best like repairing. 

I do like repairing.

Repairing efficiently is another skill that I have to test and become better at. Seeing which towers need it, which ones I can let take a little bit more damage. Cancel-juggling to keep multiple towers up. All while jumping around to different lanes AND dealing DPS to enemies.


It's a skill. It's challenging. I like it.

----

My OP wasn't a vastly planned argument to make people stop complaining about hero decks, lol. It was more of a cry of frustration to let people know this side of the fence exists.

----

@MegaHamster7 quote:

If we don't complain and let them know we think it's the stupidest idea in the game they'll never remove it and fix the issue.

That's just it!

THAT'S the problem that I'm talking about!


The fact that you think it's "the stupidest idea in the game".

THAT, to me, is COMPLETELY absurd. I can't even put it into words how ridiculous I feel it is that you think a slight inconvenience that can be worked around is actually the stupidest idea in the game.

Very true and good point. Just don't lump the rest of us that have made very legitimate arguments about it in the same category. 

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Eww... Page 3 is kinda gross, too.

----

@Chappyy quote:Ok so number one I think it is ignorant to say I want the hero deck removed because I want the game easier. I don't want the game easier, I want the game more fun. 


I'd say that both would happen.

I think the game would be more fun if it let me design my own magic spells that did whatever I wanted, and I could fly and draw pictures in the sky that interacted with the map in any way I see fit. But that would also make the game easier.

You gotta consider that kinda thing. Side-effects, etc.


@Ninja_Kero quote:

So this is the kind of thread a person posts when they want attention and likes.

Sheesh.

Not many things make me say, "lol what??" out loud IRL. But this did.


And you're still missing the point of my thread. Trendy is going to think the SINGLE BIGGEST PROBLEM in Dungeon Defenders 2 is the hero deck. And that's because a lot of people actually THINK this way.

And this is going to be the death of the game. This specific example, and others like it. Even the reasons everyone uses as WHY the hero deck is the biggest issue ACTUALLY only point to the fact that it's a symptom of a core game mechanic causing the actual problem. But everyone's too... quite frankly, unintelligent enough to get that analysis. (Get offended all you want, but maybe you should man up about it and realize this, and fix it. Being offended is just another waste of time and energy - which you seem to like to do.)


@fab10r quote:


@T.G.B. quote:

What a colossal waste of time... If you spent all this time complaining about something that mattered, maybe appropriate attention would be on that issue instead, and we'd be seeing coming fixes to that.


Instead, you guys can't... seem... to put the square piece... into that... triangle hole... no matter how hard you try...


You want a DPS'er? Good. Make a DPS'er.

Now make 3 builders.

Ta-da!!!!


Go find someone whose 3 builders includes that one single class that yours doesn't, and together, you got the whole squad!

All it takes is two people.

And if you only play solo... then, well, the game should be easy enough anyway. I managed with unstatted Poison Darts serving as walls. I'm pretty sure someone with a geared 4-slotted hero deck can figure out a way to make it all come together, right?

troll. continue playing normal mode or nightmare1 .because of you not-knowing-about-endgame-players trendyteam think other things are more important than increasing deck sizee +balancing towers. 

most of the players here are casual players who want to spend one hour each day maximum in that game. they dont play nightmare 4, they join already opened games where often good builders are in already, they dont have a clue how hard it is to build proper, to collect that correct gear and so on.

those leechers start crying about new outfits and new gamemodes... all too easy, right. because of those we got an even more difficult spooky event. now its not managable anymore. they could have kept it ingame for even half a year- as long as they dont balance towers finally and DECREASE hp of special mobs instead of increasing we dont need anything new. im tired of grinding the first 3 waves of nightmare 4 maps like greystone plaza to hope for one single good mythical item. i want to finish nightmare4 maps and hope for good chests in the end.

no one needs loot changes, balance towers that you dont need to play with traps, let the frost tower also buff towers in its range not in enemies range, and so on and so on. we are not stuck before nightmare 3 we are stuck IN nightmare 4 +incursion. show me how you finish that game modes with unequipped poison dart towers as walls.. i got a perfect gear for that and it was only the half of hearty blockades health. so shut up before you dont know what you are talking about. troll.



Oh yeah?

You just claimed that everyone who calls this game easy are literally all leechers who join games as they're about to end because the "good players" already set it up that way.

This is your claim.

You said this.


But I'm the troll? GG. You sure got me.

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@Chappyy quote:

Very true and good point. Just don't lump the rest of us that have made very legitimate arguments about it in the same category. 

Sorry, I'm a little extra-snappy right now. I feel outnumbered.

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So whats really the issue with it being unlocked? Im lost, Its going to make it easier?? Ahh nope I have 12 toons Speciallized around 670+ and only able to use abour 5/6 of them in Nm4 Inc as most of the towers just dont put out enough damage. If your in Nm 4 Inc,  Your Trolling plain a simple. If your anything less then ok ya you can play with the hero deck of 4,  3 just cause your wall in manadory unless you used the PD tower, But in that case your getting a weaker wall for 10 more du that doesn't auto agro,  Hero Deck shouldnt be a priority, But it needs some looking into as does the loot,  But you knew that as the Devs mentioned it in thier last stream.


There is other issues, enemies walkin around walls, full screen windowed, loot,  Myself I'd say the biggest issue is matchmaking.

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I've seen this argument earlier in the thread but didn't really see a clean response to it:

Is there something necessarily wrong with removing this limit and letting players play as they wish? I mean, if you want to keep playing with only 4 characters per game, sure - go ahead. But why should I be limited from using a Wall Squire/Storm DPS Squire/Blaze Balloon Huntress/PDT Huntress/Geyser Huntress/Lightning Aura Monk combo? That means I don't have to spend hours grinding for 4 perfect builders just to be able to farm NM4 solo; I can compensate with several niche, less powerful classes and, more importantly, have a lot of fun doing it. I can place Geysers and Lightning Auras on the lanes my SDPS squire will guard, and have fun whacking away at enemies and watch them get electrocuted. By the Hero Deck rules, I wouldn't be able to build any more towers - I'd have to get by with Walls, Geyser Traps, and Lightning Auras, and I can't possibly guard 4-5 lanes by myself. If the Hero Deck weren't there, I can also add Blaze Balloons or PDTs to the other lanes, watching enemies get drenched, shocked, set on fire, AND poisoned. That'd be entertaining. And if it doesn't work - be it ineffective or reaching the DU limit - I'll just find some other niche build to try out. 

Bleh, that combo would be fun to try out but I'm having trouble articulating my points since it's like 1:30am >.> Ignore the above paragraph.

BASICALLY,  in what regard would removing the Hero Deck ruin YOUR experience?

Also, in the case that DD2 STARTED with no Hero Deck, would the player base have called for an imposed restriction of the number of characters you can bring to a game upon ALL players? In my opinion, the more likely possibility would be players trying out personal "challenge runs" - see how few characters you can complete a map in! Or something like that.

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At NM4 incursion i want my:

1. Wall squire

2. Serenity monk

3. Trapper

4. Frost app.

5. DPS huntress


That is 5 slots, get to work Trendy :)


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@T.G.B. quote:

Try replacing the Huntress mines with a DPS tower from one of the classes you're already using. If that's not good enough, and you're going to complain that a solo person can't clear the same amount of stuff a 4-man group can, then you're just being ridiculous. Nobody complains in Diablo 3 about the 4-man leaderboards being 10+ Grift levels higher than solo leaderboards.

Just wanted to point out that there is a reason nobody complains in Diablo 3. Gear dropping from Grift1 is the same as Grift70+ compare that to DD2 nm1 and nm4, hero capabilities are worlds apart. Diablo's progression continues at all difficulties from Torment 1 and above. In DD2 you hit a solid wall, this isn't entirely cause of the hero deck though. Tower balance needs work to make more builds viable, Incursions difficulty in particular needs a significant balance pass in regard to soloing. There is next to no wiggle room end game.

The hero deck is only an issue in solo play, filling the gaps is completely viable with premade groups. Matchmaking could be extended to include role and build selection but that would really complicate the system. You can basically rule out the possibility of randoms having what your missing, no barrier for entry means the majority of players wont be able to handle the difficulty. I don't see the issue, remove it for solo and keep it for group play or remove it altogether, just give us more viable options.

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@Woqini quote:

At NM4 incursion i want my:

1. Wall squire

2. Serenity monk

3. Trapper

4. Frost app.

5. DPS huntress


That is 5 slots, get to work Trendy :)



I want a million dollars and a nice cheeseburger. Get to work, Trendy :)

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I;ve ran many maps with PUG groups and about 85% of the time I have to build an of course.. no-one else has a tower char, or they do but its way low ipwr for the map i'm running. I believe if we could even get 6 slots most people would be happier. I Honestly want 8 like in DD 1 but that might make it too easy for some people  so 6 is a middle ground right? Only reason i say this is because i have 4 tower chars in my deck an i can't beat a map without a Damage dealer on NM3, but then i run into same issue... low ipwr ppl in same map i'm on. So my whole point is.. i'll never stop  asking for hero deck change.It may never happen but i can always hope.

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@Nazgren quote:

If you can complete a level with 4 or less heroes then a 4 hero limit is NOT limiting. It does not hinder you in any way.

Yes, Lets take an imaginary player called Bob. The hero deck gets removed. Bob will now make 16 heroes, 4 of each class.

Squire 1 will optimize his stats and spheres to fully benefit the Harpoon tower

Squire 2 will optimize his stats and spheres to fully benefit the Cannonball tower.

Squire 3 will optimize his stats and spheres to fully benefit the Spiked Barricade.

I could go on for all 16 heroes but I'm pretty sure you see where its going. By being limited to lets say, one App, I have to balance my stats and spheres to get tower optimisation across the board. If I throw all my stats at my Fireburst then my ice tower is going to suffer. This makes the game a balancing act, trading effectiveness in one tower for another, deciding how good one tower needs to be compared to another. Bob doesnt have this issue. He can make a character that is capable of making each tower as OP as it can possibly be without suffering any adverse effects, because he has other characters that can make the other towers that are also as OP. With the hero deck removed the Sphere system becomes utterly pointless, as rather then taking, say, a Ultra fire tower sphere and large Ice sphere to keep both towers at a useable level,  You can just make one character with all fireburst tower spheres and another with all iceburst tower spheres and change for each different tower. Without a hero deck you may as well just give each hero the same stats and remove items and spheres, because a lack of hero deck renders them both utterly pointless. That Is why removing the hero deck would make it easier. You will give each player the ability to use every sphere simultaneously and fully optimize every tower. This would be OP.

Had to leave for a bit.  What a crap response man, I asked you what I could do in my NM4 greystone plaza run, not all the limitations that would be lifted without a hero deck.  I know them very well, I described THEM ALL in another thread.  But that's the thing with every fairweather hero deck defender right?  Nobody reads through everything and a select group of us keep on going through the same discussion time and time again

You know why you can't give an answer btw?  Because there really isn't one - I wouldn't build a damn thing differently.  Only thing that would help a lot is switching to App DPS for when the difficult lane spawns on a magic res lane.  


Also, "If you can complete a level with 4 or less heroes then a 4 hero limit is NOT limiting. It does not hinder you in any way." Means nothing. FFS, I've already said (four times now, in this very thread; bolded for emphasis, please don't repeat this point) the hero deck discussion, in my analysis of the information, should have very little to do with difficulty and more to do with the structure of the game and its implications on fun.   Yeah, I can and do complete 98% of the content solo.  It isn't about the difficulty.  The changes are negligible, how is this such a hard point to refute AND such a hard point to understand at the same time.


@๖ۣۜPhoenixX quote:

So whats really the issue with it being unlocked? Im lost, Its going to make it easier?? Ahh nope I have 12 toons Speciallized around 670+ and only able to use abour 5/6 of them in Nm4 Inc as most of the towers just dont put out enough damage. If your in Nm 4 Inc,  Your Trolling plain a simple. If your anything less then ok ya you can play with the hero deck of 4,  3 just cause your wall in manadory unless you used the PD tower, But in that case your getting a weaker wall for 10 more du that doesn't auto agro,  Hero Deck shouldnt be a priority, But it needs some looking into as does the loot,  But you knew that as the Devs mentioned it in thier last stream.


There is other issues, enemies walkin around walls, full screen windowed, loot,  Myself I'd say the biggest issue is matchmaking.

This is pretty spot on.


There are no doubt other issues that we can all agree on.  Hero deck is just the main thing that people are somewhat split on what should happen


With regards to the hero deck we can all also agree that the devs had a lot of time since these threads started to appear (like over a year?) to experiment with some changes.  In that time we've had +1 slot.  Pretty solid use of testing phases <.< lol 

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@Yuwee quote:


@T.G.B. quote:

Try replacing the Huntress mines with a DPS tower from one of the classes you're already using. If that's not good enough, and you're going to complain that a solo person can't clear the same amount of stuff a 4-man group can, then you're just being ridiculous. Nobody complains in Diablo 3 about the 4-man leaderboards being 10+ Grift levels higher than solo leaderboards.

Just wanted to point out that there is a reason nobody complains in Diablo 3. Gear dropping from Grift1 is the same as Grift70+ compare that to DD2 nm1 and nm4, hero capabilities are worlds apart. Diablo's progression continues at all difficulties from Torment 1 and above. In DD2 you hit a solid wall, this isn't entirely cause of the hero deck though. Tower balance needs work to make more builds viable, Incursions difficulty in particular needs a significant balance pass in regard to soloing. There is next to no wiggle room end game.

The hero deck is only an issue in solo play, filling the gaps is completely viable with premade groups. Matchmaking could be extended to include role and build selection but that would really complicate the system. You can basically rule out the possibility of randoms having what your missing, no barrier for entry means the majority of players wont be able to handle the difficulty. I don't see the issue, remove it for solo and keep it for group play or remove it altogether, just give us more viable options.

Small point, maybe semantics but it keeps coming up in different ways with regards to solo vs co op in hero deck threads


You're implying the benefit to co-op play is filling the gaps of the hero deck.  That's just not true... the impact additional bodies have on a game is WAY bigger than the impact of having more than 3-4 builders.  

It's because of that fact that people can make wonky builds in NM4 co-op (with serenity auras, skyguards, cannons, traps, frosties, etc etc) and still win. 

Builds are always limited by the same DU - but a free huntress DPS is a 60k+dps mobile tower with crazy burst DPS from abilities.  That alone trumps the hell out of a few extra monster levels and more hard lanes opening up. 

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