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Stop complaining about the hero deck.


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What a colossal waste of time... If you spent all this time complaining about something that mattered, maybe appropriate attention would be on that issue instead, and we'd be seeing coming fixes to that.


Instead, you guys can't... seem... to put the square piece... into that... triangle hole... no matter how hard you try...


You want a DPS'er? Good. Make a DPS'er.

Now make 3 builders.

Ta-da!!!!


Go find someone whose 3 builders includes that one single class that yours doesn't, and together, you got the whole squad!

All it takes is two people.

And if you only play solo... then, well, the game should be easy enough anyway. I managed with unstatted Poison Darts serving as walls. I'm pretty sure someone with a geared 4-slotted hero deck can figure out a way to make it all come together, right?

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Have you played NM3 or NM4? It gets pretty difficult to solo things with a 4 character hero deck. Ideally, I would take a waller squire, a trap huntress, a frosty app, an AA and serenity monk, and a dps. That's 5 just in the current meta, and it will change / possibly require more characters as more passives and builds are introduced and as new heroes come into the game.

Trendy has been pretty open about the fact that there are issues with the hero deck. The question now is: how can it be changed in a way that the majority of players will enjoy and will allow for future character growth?

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Ok. Well you can't do that.


Instead of having the game change to adapt to you every time there's an obstacle, how about you adapt to the game?


Your "meta strategy" is dedicating an entire hero deck slot to a single tower. Nobody sees anything wrong with this?

Try replacing the Huntress mines with a DPS tower from one of the classes you're already using. If that's not good enough, and you're going to complain that a solo person can't clear the same amount of stuff a 4-man group can, then you're just being ridiculous. Nobody complains in Diablo 3 about the 4-man leaderboards being 10+ Grift levels higher than solo leaderboards.


If the deck is too small for your own predetermined, fixated strategy for solo play, maybe you should change one of the two changeable factors in that formula (your strategy, or the single-player part), rather than join a crusade to have the game itself changed.

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You really have no idea what you are talking about, even Trendy have admitted it's flawed.

Hero Deck matters End game only. If you aren't at that point then you won't see it's shortcoming.

Also if you are saying that the Hero Deck is keeping them from finishing more important things then you couldn't be more wrong.

It's been confirmed that the next milestone is to do with loot fixes and that the Hero Deck will be addressed early next year.

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The reason people use that strategy for NM4 is because it's one of the only viable end game builds right now. The introduction of build passives like hearty blockade and frosty power basically encourages heroes to specialize in one tower. That's not my design; that's just how the game is built right now.

In terms of solo vs co-op, Trendy has been quite clear on the devstreams that they want all content to be playable solo OR in co-op. Some people love solo, some people love co-op, some do both. Trendy says they want all of those playstyles to be viable. That's not my idea; it's from the game developers.

If you don't agree with those ideas, let Trendy know, and perhaps suggest other ways that these issues could be looked at.

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Trendy devs have explicitly said that players should be able to clear all content either solo or with other players. Solo should be just as viable as co-op. If a problem exists in solo, but not in co-op, then it's still a problem.

@T.G.B. quote:

You're dodging the point that your complaints all crumble if you simply play with a 2nd person.


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Did you check out the threads or just read the titles?  Srs question.


I doubt many of the hardcore pro hero deck removal people still believe it has anything to do with difficulty... and it seems like your entire argument is surrounding that point.  I'm super anti hero deck and I don't really care about the "difficulty" it adds (quotes around that because I believe it's an absolutely negligible amount).  Primarily a solo player btw 


It's about making the game more fun and less annoying.  Hero deck does nothing but annoy/limit people.


Like, really, how much of an impact will the removal of hero deck have on any single game?  I play enough with trap/frosties in NM4 that I know I don't want anything else using up that DU besides traps and frosties.  Have started playing with cannon/flameburst as per someone's suggestions in another thread - and it's pretty cool, but I wouldn't add anything into that build that isn't a wall, cannon, flameburst... it just isn't efficient DPS/DU


Hero deck is PURELY an inconvenience masquerading as "integral to the structure of gameplay".  Bull***.  Game would get NEGLIGIBLY easier on someone who builds every type of character while they and everyone else can enjoy some wacky builds that actually get to utilize all the different types of passives that will come in the future.  

More fun, more replayability, more gameplay.

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No need to complain as soon as they remove it. 

This is an alpha game and the hero deck is a stupid system. Remove it until you come up with something better!

Only 2.3% of all players have 4 heroes over the level of 25 anyway. Most people won't notice the change and the dedicated players that spend money on this game are happy. 



@T.G.B. quote:

You're dodging the point that your complaints all crumble if you simply play with a 2nd person.

So you think it's a good idea to force people to make multiple accounts to be successful? Awesome idea! 

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@IGELmitDEAGLE quote:

No need to complain as soon as they remove it. 

This is an alpha game and the hero deck is a stupid system. Remove it until you come up with something better!

Only 2.3% of all players have 4 heroes over the level of 25 anyway. Most people won't notice the change and the dedicated players that spend money on this game are happy. 



@T.G.B. quote:

You're dodging the point that your complaints all crumble if you simply play with a 2nd person.

So you think it's a good idea to force people to make multiple accounts to be successful? Awesome idea! 

This was a sound and logical post I could have got behind, until you put words in my mouth on your cheap quip at the end.


Aaaand the mob mentality Like Train strikes again.

*rolls eyes*

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These are the consequences of your argument. 

"Want to play this game without limits? Better bring more than one account!" Not the first time this happens in a F2P game. 

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@T.G.B. quote:


Aaaand the mob mentality Like Train strikes again.

*rolls eyes*

Like train?  It's 1 like, probably all the same person lmao.  Now it's 2 though, it's increasing at a RAPID RATE!  


Don't sweat it man, I only ever like posts to say thank you for compliment/info OR to mind games with people like you.  It's only a "big deal" since people only ever get like 1-4 likes on something anyway.  Our perception of the value of a like is skewed because of that.  In reality it's just a person per like.  Not a big deal >_>

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Huh?  


I was just making light of the situation of you commenting on likes, I'm not challenging you to some mind game.  Jeez, you're taking this whole thing a bit too seriously 


Edit: Can't help myself.  Yeah, if I was a bigger *** I would think that's a "mind game on you".  Mind game, trolling, etc, all the same thing, no?  If you got bent out of shape enough to go out of your way to comment on the "mob mentality" doing a "like train" after seeing a post you're discussing with getting 1 like then.... yeah, it'd be pretty easy to troll you lol

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There's so many points to address... The highlight is that "trolling" really has lost all meaning, hasn't it? It used to be a work of art. Now it's just "hurdur i troll u" because someone says... ... anything, really. Anything at all, that's a troll.

Mind games and trolling are not the same. No.


I'm not getting "bent out of shape," either. I'm simply responding to a thing. What entails being "bent out of shape" to you? All I did was type words on a computer.


Mob mentality is a common theme that I talk about. So are Like Trains. It's not like it takes much for me to bring it up. The reason they bother me is because - real talk, here - I make frequent, thought-out posts.  I put a lot of thought into them, often a lot of time, sometimes a bit of emotion. And then the person that gets all the Likes is the first one to say something like "u mad, go play sumthin else bro". That, along with the fact that I'm usually argumentative (even playing devil's advocate against points I actually agree with) and that people act defensively rather than continue a discussion.

It shouldn't, but it does bother me. It makes me feel like I'm talking to a bunch of apes. And these apes are directing the course of the game's development through mass input.


I mean, whatever though. That's why I said earlier that I pretty much give up putting in my input on the game. Nobody wants to hear the unpopular opinions, or the argumentative devil's advocate. They want to hear that their own opinion is the only way, or that the game is perfect and anyone who disagrees should go play Runescape.

Look around and you'll see that I'm right. Nobody's got anything unique to say. Partly because anyone who does is afraid to speak up and get mobbed down. I see this happen in every game. In the end, when my advice is ignored and the game dies, you'll know who was right - or, you would, if you didn't intentionally forget about all the things I've been saying.

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Well, there's a lot of irony there.


You're always going to come up the same thing when you're refering to people as apes.  Or responding to them with the feeling that they're apes.  It all comes out... you think you're being a devils advocate, but all you're doing is stirring up trouble.


Your OP for example, it's more in line with trying to piss off anti-hero deckers by implying they're wasting their time, banging their heads on the wall, and crying too much vs providing a nuanced point.  And you didn't even summarize the arguments correctly, which is even worse when you take such a harsh tone to start with.  And YOU'RE the one to end the discussion you started by referencing people systematically banding against you after just one page of discussion and just one like?  


Dude, what kind of responses are you expecting to get?  You're the only one that gets to feel unjustifyably targeted by misrepresentation of the facts, straw man fallacies, sarcasm, insults, condescension, and whatever else people do to put people down on forums?


If you're going to be a good devil's advocate, debater, arguer, discusser, insight-provider, or whatever... you'll have to get some thicker skin man.  ESPECIALLY if you wanna do any of those things on the internet.  Callousness just goes with the territory, I have no ill will towards anyone I had an argument with on here, we're all still people.

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Just because something hasn't been done about it doesn't mean complaining about it is a waste of time. If we don't complain and let them know we think it's the stupidest idea in the game they'll never remove it and fix the issue. Maybe it's a big deal code wide to remove it and they don't want to take that hit when so much else is broken? You obviously didn't consider that, how stupid of you. It doesn't add to the game it detracts from it massively. People who want a limit should not hold the rest of us back. Those people can limit themselves in their head to 4 characters in the name of fun. The rest of us aren't interested. End of story.

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Hero Deck is fine. If you can't do it with the characters you have then find a better way of doing it. Simple. People managed fine in DD1 with less builders and nerfed towers if you switched to a DPS hero and that game took more strategy then DD2 does.

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@Nazgren quote:

Hero Deck is fine. If you can't do it with the characters you have then find a better way of doing it. Simple. People managed fine in DD1 with less builders and nerfed towers if you switched to a DPS hero and that game took more strategy then DD2 does.

Yeah guys!  The point of the game should be about doing it.  That's it.  I'm doing it and having no issues


Stop talking about having fun or whatever 


Emoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.png

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@Pachipachio quote:


@Nazgren quote:

Hero Deck is fine. If you can't do it with the characters you have then find a better way of doing it. Simple. People managed fine in DD1 with less builders and nerfed towers if you switched to a DPS hero and that game took more strategy then DD2 does.

Yeah guys!  The point of the game should be about doing it.  That's it.  I'm doing it and having no issues


Stop talking about having fun or whatever 


Emoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.png

Its fun if there's a challenge. Being able to have a hero dedicated to every single tower would make this game too easy which makes it boring.

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@Nazgren quote:

Hero Deck is fine. If you can't do it with the characters you have then find a better way of doing it. Simple. People managed fine in DD1 with less builders and nerfed towers if you switched to a DPS hero and that game took more strategy then DD2 does.

If by strategy you mean archer/mage walls on a Eve buff beam with aura stacks that envelop a quarter of the map. Then damn so much strategy.

In DD1 Summoner had his own units and was god like, in DDE Summoner's Archers fire rate were ridiculous.

In DD2 Summoner may be the answer to all this annoyance. Until then the Hero Deck just sucks.

In my experience with online people still ask what your walls/towers are still and too bad if you used up a slot for an inferior builder. Just like DD1, nothing has changed.

The HD is here to stay though, but in it's current state it's creating more of an annoyance than an incentive to play with other people.





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@Nazgren quote:


@Pachipachio quote:


@Nazgren quote:

Hero Deck is fine. If you can't do it with the characters you have then find a better way of doing it. Simple. People managed fine in DD1 with less builders and nerfed towers if you switched to a DPS hero and that game took more strategy then DD2 does.

Yeah guys!  The point of the game should be about doing it.  That's it.  I'm doing it and having no issues


Stop talking about having fun or whatever 


Emoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.png

Its fun if there's a challenge. Being able to have a hero dedicated to every single tower would make this game too easy which makes it boring.

How would it make it too easy?  Let's get specific, I'm in NM4 greystone plaza with a traps/frosty build.  Use 2 frosty per lane + a wall and the rest of the DU goes into traps.  How do I make that map too easy with an unlimited hero deck?



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@KnowsNoLimits quote:


@Nazgren quote:

Hero Deck is fine. If you can't do it with the characters you have then find a better way of doing it. Simple. People managed fine in DD1 with less builders and nerfed towers if you switched to a DPS hero and that game took more strategy then DD2 does.

If by strategy you mean archer/mage walls on a Eve buff beam with aura stacks that envelop a quarter of the map. Then damn so much strategy.

In DD1 Summoner had his own units and was god like, in DDE Summoner's Archers fire rate were ridiculous.

In DD2 Summoner may be the answer to all this annoyance. Until then the Hero Deck just sucks.

In my experience with online people still ask what your walls/towers are still and too bad if you used up a slot for an inferior builder. Just like DD1, nothing has changed.

The HD is here to stay though, but in it's current state it's creating more of an annoyance than an incentive to play with other people.


The problem there was OP heroes, not broken game design.



@Pachipachio quote:


@Nazgren quote:


@Pachipachio quote:


@Nazgren quote:

Hero Deck is fine. If you can't do it with the characters you have then find a better way of doing it. Simple. People managed fine in DD1 with less builders and nerfed towers if you switched to a DPS hero and that game took more strategy then DD2 does.

Yeah guys!  The point of the game should be about doing it.  That's it.  I'm doing it and having no issues


Stop talking about having fun or whatever 


Emoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.pngEmoji_Kobalt.png

Its fun if there's a challenge. Being able to have a hero dedicated to every single tower would make this game too easy which makes it boring.

How would it make it too easy?  Let's get specific, I'm in NM4 greystone plaza with a traps/frosty build.  Use 2 frosty per lane + a wall and the rest of the DU goes into traps.  How do I make that map too easy with an unlimited hero deck?


From what I can tell this means you do a level with only 2 builders. Why does this mean you need more then 4 characters?

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