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The online community is quite toxic already and I'm encouraged to play with these people?


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I haven't dared entered the reigns of NM4 yet as I am severely unprepared but I did manage to weasel my way into getting better gear to push myself into low NM3. (Only did it cause I couldn't find NM2 or NM1 ><)

I've definitely met my fair share of extremely toxic players though, back before I had a level 50 one day kept saying my build was going to give him cancer, we offered to let him build and he just went silent and then insulted me again calling me a noob and saying all sorts of lovely stuff. Granted I knew my build had flaws, Huntress was my only post 30 at the time and I worked with what I had.

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If we are going to talk about a problem, here I think we need to address that some of the higher, further progressed players are causing some of it. Basically, many of us (myself included) will go into hard mode to level new classes/builds and use our nightmare+ geared 50's to set up defenses. Leaving nothing to really be done. You can pretty much just sit there and let the defenses do all the work. The problem is new players come into this and are not made to learn anything to get by. They get carried to 50 then, well no big surprise, they pretty much expect to continue being carried after they hit 50 on their first toon.


This leads to a very real problem. Players that have not had to read guides, or even figure out anything for themselves. I was in a nightmare 2 with the apprentice I'm trying to gear up, last night having to explain to another player what the stats and bonuses on gear meant. I had another instance of discovering a player that had been farming all gear with his squire then using it on other toons, effectively rendering the item bonuses useless. They honestly had no clue. I haven't been kicked or harassed much myself, but I've not been beyond NM3 much, due to the problem of finding competent people to play with and progress my characters properly. While I could start trying to leech NM4 like a lot of players are apparently trying to do. That's just not my style. I want to contribute, and earn my keep. Sadly, I'm an older gamer and I know well that many gamers, especially younger ones, just don't care about that entire concept. The first thing to fix this problem in my opinion is to make the ipwr requirements :

1 - a little bit looser (instead of requiring the max level of gear from the previous tier give it a 20-40 point wiggle room

2 - solid ( you can not start the next tier until gearing the previous, I don't see this as game killing because impatient people can still run a couple of maps at the previous tier, put on whatever junk gear with a good ipwr they find there and progress it will at least force some minor form of progression though)


...the only real problem here is progression above nm1 (meaning nm2 and higher) Even with lackluster gear and builds I've managed to solo nightmare 1 without much issue so I don't put it in the same class at nm2,nm3, and nm4 which really do require working together and proper builds.


Just to reiterate something I said at the start of this massive post, we need to stop power level carrying new players. It doesn't benefit them or us to do so. If you want to power level a new toon using your already leveled toons defenses, do it in private matches. At this point we pretty much need the new players to have to ....you know actually play the game.

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@Some random guy quote:

Being able to examine other people gear, stats, challenges and map+difficulty clears would be a start at least.

A blacklist would also be soooo usefull.

I can only endorse the map clear part. It's the only one without any real problem-causing, while also truly showing what someone can do.

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An interesting idea brought up in a stream just now was having a more friendly social feature or a way to interact with like minded people. Who enjoy the game and enjoy farming endgame.

I'm all for that.

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@Null & Void quote:

If we are going to talk about a problem, here I think we need to address that some of the higher, further progressed players are causing some of it. Basically, many of us (myself included) will go into hard mode to level new classes/builds and use our nightmare+ geared 50's to set up defenses. Leaving nothing to really be done. You can pretty much just sit there and let the defenses do all the work. The problem is new players come into this and are not made to learn anything to get by. They get carried to 50 then, well no big surprise, they pretty much expect to continue being carried after they hit 50 on their first toon.

<snip>

Just to reiterate something I said at the start of this massive post, we need to stop power level carrying new players. It doesn't benefit them or us to do so. If you want to power level a new toon using your already leveled toons defenses, do it in private matches. At this point we pretty much need the new players to have to ....you know actually play the game. 

This is the exact reason why I power level my alts in private. If I join a public match while leveling an alt, I usually sit there and let others build and only pull out my builders if there's a real threat to losing the game.

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@Nazgren quote:

Extreme elitism I would agree is an issue, but when I join a game with someone who is building that clearly doesn't have the stats to build then you can be sure as hell I'm going to ask them to sell and let me build. I had someone in a game earlier tell me how much better his towers where them mine when they had about 3/4 of the health, 1/3 of the dps and 3/4 of the range of mine. They had also placed at least 2 in such a way that they couldn't shoot anything. When I asked him/her to sell them so that I could build, explained why and pointed out there less then stellar tower placement I got called an elitist and kicked. I see people building walls directly next to shadow zones, its bad enough that people are building walls at all, but when its in such a bad place as that makes me want to cry. When I manage to build first people never bother to defend them, upgrade or repair and then complain when they get destroyed. I acknowledge that as a games community increases then toxicity will increase, but this is ridiculous. I have had only 1 game so far that had a decent player in it, the problem is was that he / she spoke very little english, so it still wasn't enough to get anything done. If we fail a map with someone elses build and the next map attempt I build and this time we win it with minimal effort I still get called a noob because I have no walls, despite none of the towers even getting below half health and never repairing, simply because I know how to properly place defences. On more then one occasion I have joined a game to find someone building with stats maybe half of what they need to be to even complete the level, i ask them to let me build, explain why in as unbiased, polite and reasonable way as i can, and am met with either being ignored, insulted, kicked, or more commonly, all of the above. It removes all the fun from the game. I don't know anyone else who plays the game so I cant just play private matches and playing alone shouldn't be my only option as this is supposed to be a multiplayer game. If this keeps up then your going to lose all the players from pre-release.

I read like the first third of this wall of text and wanted to point out that the stats from spheres still dont show up on the stats when you inspect someone elses towers. So keep in mind when you inspect other peoples traps it will show a lower dps then what it really is because of this.

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[[24592,users]]

I've had a similar experience.   If you want to group up sometime feel free to add me.   I've had better luck with prearranged groups. 

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@gotrunks712 quote:

KnowsNoLimits

I've had a similar experience.   If you want to group up sometime feel free to add me.   I've had better luck with prearranged groups. 

Added you.

Today I have been soloing LRNM4 and have just been gearing up my DPS Huntress, close to clearing it now. So much better, no BS to put up with and I'm actually starting to have fun again.

I don't think I will be playing with randoms anytime soon.



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I agree. The Elitism in this game is huge. 


I've been playing solo ever since I got 6 Characters to 50. Having a hard time transitioning from NM3 to NM4 with 600 Ipower though. 

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F2P sadly means no barrier of entry to the idiots.

To be honest though the Defense Council wasn't much better. It is just always a pain to play public games in a game as casual as DD2. If the game is always that easy that people do not need to learn how to play well that's how it'll be.

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Regarding OP - there was a very small amount of this in DD1, but it was usually if you were like a level 40 trying to help build and then a guy pulled out a level 80 - you understood immediately why you shouldn't build anything.


@T.G.B. quote:

In DD1, there were a lot of successful ways to place towers. In DD2, there doesn't seem to be as much room for creativity - but I'm sure there's some unique ways people have come up with to get things done better.

I think this above all else is a big thorn that adds to the demise of how we treat one another online. I think DD2 has started to fracture a bit. I still go back and play DD1 from time to time - it still holds up with our shorter attention spans, our thirst to win, have freedom, etc. DD2 is like the ultra strict, "you can have fun if you follow my annoying rules" class from college that everyone dropped or never attended.

In DD2, we have a similar story line, four similar characters (so far at least), a few similar defenses (albeit some function a little differently), and some returning mobs. Otherwise, it seems like this game is quickly turning into a "based on DD1" and not a true sequel. Every successful series seems to stay successful because they update and introduce only minor changes from edition to edition. Most of these take place behind the scenes of actual gameplay, too. Here's a brief list to emphasize this point...

The good-

Mario (2d) - Same basic game. Updated visuals. Since Super Mario III, added a map the player moved through out, gave some options in terms of levels to play.

Mario Kart/Smash Bros - Lumping together. Pretty much the visuals change, the maps change, and the line ups change.

Pretty much every FPS game - The same with variations on updated maps, weapons (still primarily function the same - projectiles), and graphics. The stories/locations obviously are what separates these franchises.

Temple Run/Angry Birds - Two games that have several sequels that are virtually clones of one another (in their respective franchises). There is very little someone needs to learn going from one sequel to the next.

The Sims - Virtually the only thing that changed is your options for interacting, visuals, and what amounts to the quantity of skins for items.


The bad-

SimCity - The first four games in the series were essentially updated graphically with small twists. The most recent one came out and started messing with mechanics/DRM rights. Look what happened...

Sonic - Many of these games were the same 'endless runner'-type platformers. I have played some of the newer ones, but I understand the formulas for the games started getting so far from the original that even Sega has apologized to its fans.

World of Warcraft - The ultimate MMORPG has been dropping subscribers left and right since like the third expansion. It sees modest bumps in users when it launches a new expansion, but then numbers start dropping once again.

Plants vs Zombies - First game was a huge hit. Second game had a limited release and was P2W or grind your life away. Third game was a failed FPS PVP game.


DD1 gave us more variety in building, methods to counter most everything (removing resistances, all items functioned as AA, etc), unlimited hero deck, no real meta, boss fights, no objectives to make or break a run, less "trash" to fill bags (I realize this will be a major point for the devs income - I think F2P was a mistake), smoother leveling process, fun challenges, endless modes that gave unique rewards, unique weapons/armor for beating various challenges/maps, and an experience that was fun both solo and multiplayer (I can only speak of solo in DD2, but I played both in DD1). I realize this is still Alpha, but I don't see DD2 as ever becoming a true sequel in my eyes of DD1. It makes me sad because it seems that the Dungeon Defenders series is more likely to go the way of Plants Vs. Zombies (already failed with the MOBA idea). I'm not sure why the devs didn't really play it safe and release a new "DD1" with update visuals, new maps, new skins, new items, and call it DD2. They went and started screwing too much with mechanics and it's going to kill the franchise.

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@jmhjm quote:

Regarding OP - there was a very small amount of this in DD1, but it was usually if you were like a level 40 trying to help build and then a guy pulled out a level 80 - you understood immediately why you shouldn't build anything.


@T.G.B. quote:

In DD1, there were a lot of successful ways to place towers. In DD2, there doesn't seem to be as much room for creativity - but I'm sure there's some unique ways people have come up with to get things done better.

I think this above all else is a big thorn that adds to the demise of how we treat one another online. I think DD2 has started to fracture a bit. I still go back and play DD1 from time to time - it still holds up with our shorter attention spans, our thirst to win, have freedom, etc. DD2 is like the ultra strict, "you can have fun if you follow my annoying rules" class from college that everyone dropped or never attended.

In DD2, we have a similar story line, four similar characters (so far at least), a few similar defenses (albeit some function a little differently), and some returning mobs. Otherwise, it seems like this game is quickly turning into a "based on DD1" and not a true sequel. Every successful series seems to stay successful because they update and introduce only minor changes from edition to edition. Most of these take place behind the scenes of actual gameplay, too. Here's a brief list to emphasize this point...

The good-

Mario (2d) - Same basic game. Updated visuals. Since Super Mario III, added a map the player moved through out, gave some options in terms of levels to play.

Mario Kart/Smash Bros - Lumping together. Pretty much the visuals change, the maps change, and the line ups change.

Pretty much every FPS game - The same with variations on updated maps, weapons (still primarily function the same - projectiles), and graphics. The stories/locations obviously are what separates these franchises.

Temple Run/Angry Birds - Two games that have several sequels that are virtually clones of one another (in their respective franchises). There is very little someone needs to learn going from one sequel to the next.

The Sims - Virtually the only thing that changed is your options for interacting, visuals, and what amounts to the quantity of skins for items.


The bad-

SimCity - The first four games in the series were essentially updated graphically with small twists. The most recent one came out and started messing with mechanics/DRM rights. Look what happened...

Sonic - Many of these games were the same 'endless runner'-type platformers. I have played some of the newer ones, but I understand the formulas for the games started getting so far from the original that even Sega has apologized to its fans.

World of Warcraft - The ultimate MMORPG has been dropping subscribers left and right since like the third expansion. It sees modest bumps in users when it launches a new expansion, but then numbers start dropping once again.

Plants vs Zombies - First game was a huge hit. Second game had a limited release and was P2W or grind your life away. Third game was a failed FPS PVP game.


DD1 gave us more variety in building, methods to counter most everything (removing resistances, all items functioned as AA, etc), unlimited hero deck, no real meta, boss fights, no objectives to make or break a run, less "trash" to fill bags (I realize this will be a major point for the devs income - I think F2P was a mistake), smoother leveling process, fun challenges, endless modes that gave unique rewards, unique weapons/armor for beating various challenges/maps, and an experience that was fun both solo and multiplayer (I can only speak of solo in DD2, but I played both in DD1). I realize this is still Alpha, but I don't see DD2 as ever becoming a true sequel in my eyes of DD1. It makes me sad because it seems that the Dungeon Defenders series is more likely to go the way of Plants Vs. Zombies (already failed with the MOBA idea). I'm not sure why the devs didn't really play it safe and release a new "DD1" with update visuals, new maps, new skins, new items, and call it DD2. They went and started screwing too much with mechanics and it's going to kill the franchise.

Woah woah woahhhh, Plants vs Zombies Garden warfare was amazing :P did you even play it? Lol (off topic)

I agree with what has been said in this thread though, I'm mainly tired of trying to gear out my squire/apprentice in NM3 and getting nothing but double huntress that run up to me and instantly drop their mana. 

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I would love to see a feature over someones name besides the usual add freind and kick option, that says block.  This feature would ensure the matchmaking never places you in the same public game with that person again.  about 30% of the community seems to be great people who are a pleasure to play with, but I really dont like running into the rest.

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@Spencer1K quote:


@Nazgren quote:

Extreme elitism I would agree is an issue, but when I join a game with someone who is building that clearly doesn't have the stats to build then you can be sure as hell I'm going to ask them to sell and let me build. I had someone in a game earlier tell me how much better his towers where them mine when they had about 3/4 of the health, 1/3 of the dps and 3/4 of the range of mine. They had also placed at least 2 in such a way that they couldn't shoot anything. When I asked him/her to sell them so that I could build, explained why and pointed out there less then stellar tower placement I got called an elitist and kicked. I see people building walls directly next to shadow zones, its bad enough that people are building walls at all, but when its in such a bad place as that makes me want to cry. When I manage to build first people never bother to defend them, upgrade or repair and then complain when they get destroyed. I acknowledge that as a games community increases then toxicity will increase, but this is ridiculous. I have had only 1 game so far that had a decent player in it, the problem is was that he / she spoke very little english, so it still wasn't enough to get anything done. If we fail a map with someone elses build and the next map attempt I build and this time we win it with minimal effort I still get called a noob because I have no walls, despite none of the towers even getting below half health and never repairing, simply because I know how to properly place defences. On more then one occasion I have joined a game to find someone building with stats maybe half of what they need to be to even complete the level, i ask them to let me build, explain why in as unbiased, polite and reasonable way as i can, and am met with either being ignored, insulted, kicked, or more commonly, all of the above. It removes all the fun from the game. I don't know anyone else who plays the game so I cant just play private matches and playing alone shouldn't be my only option as this is supposed to be a multiplayer game. If this keeps up then your going to lose all the players from pre-release.

I read like the first third of this wall of text and wanted to point out that the stats from spheres still dont show up on the stats when you inspect someone elses towers. So keep in mind when you inspect other peoples traps it will show a lower dps then what it really is because of this.

Granted, but a difference as big as the one I described? Plus these Incidents all occurred at a level where spheres make no difference. After about 10 games in a row of pure toxic players I lost the will to keep playing and gave up.

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Well I finally cleared NM4 LR solo with no DPS.

Walls are still sitting at 280k. My epic gloves are holding me back, still no upgrade from the runs I'm doing.

I feel the only way to progress now is try to crack into Dragonfall Gates Incursion solo, last a wave grab loot. Rinse and Repeat. If I can manage to do it, which I probably can't in all honesty.

Life Root can only take you so far.

I'm going to figure this out though.


No more randoms = no more worries.

I'm only playing with competent people now who know the basics, lucky I met a few before all this BS happened.




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I just tried a few random NM4 maps.  People that joined weren't even geared properly for the content and two of them wouldn't even repair walls during the wave.  They sat behind the crystal shooting mobs.

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A noob called me a Russian in a game earlier, I'm Scottish btw. His flawless logic was: "you said "secondary" and "toxic" learn English, " 

Don't tell me this game hasen't become Toxic. I avidly play Dota2 and even I wouldn't use Russian as an insult, but then this guy isn't just your average everyday stupid...

ca9f985439e9e64d45f26b8c1b00a9fbd718b4f3

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@Nazgren quote:

A noob called me a Russian in a game earlier, I'm Scottish btw. His flawless logic was: "you said "secondary" and "toxic" learn English," 

Don't tell me this game hasen't become Toxic. I avidly play Dota2 and even I wouldent use Russian as an insult, but then this guy isn't just your average everyday stupid...

ca9f985439e9e64d45f26b8c1b00a9fbd718b4f3

Did u recorded that on Dashcam?

3d9.png

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I've leveled 4 (tower mage, dps mage, traptress, AA squire) up to 50 either by myself or with my kids. I won't join public games because of the jerks out there (to be blunt). However, I'd love to join other people who know what they are doing and are nice about it. 

I've tried to learn what I can about tower placement but what is good in written form many times takes practice to actually learn, and I know I could use some practical in-person advice on many things in game. It's just finding nice people that seems to be the trouble. 

Now, I can take constructive criticism all day long and am able to help others with what I've learned as well.. but like I said, the trouble is finding like-minded people. I'm not a leech and won't join a game I'm not geared for and ready to assist with building for, so that leaves me going the solo route (especially lately, because the kids got super tired of the lag and have stopped playing). I don't really mind, but I'd like to learn different placements and what I could do better, and I can really only do that if someone is actually there and sees how I am building.

Not sure what the answer here is. The ability to inspect someone's gear, and to block jerky players, would go a long way to weeding out people who don't contribute anything except rudeness. 

Maybe a public reputation system where if you're kicked the kicker can give a reason, and if you get kicked a certain amount of times it takes points away from your rep. Then people can opt to block or ignore players with a certain rep level so that they never get put into a map with them.

Edited to add: There are other reasons to kick someone besides bad reasons, like if someone gets stuck somewhere on the map they may need to be kicked to get unstuck. That's where the reason would come in - being stuck would be a neutral reason and would not add or take away rep points. But multiple "this person is acting like a 2 year old" or "toxic player" or "leecher" kicks would result in points being taken away from rep, eventually leading to that person not being able to get into any group map because people would have their preference set to not get grouped with players of a certain rep level and below.

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@Sen quote:

Edited to add: There are other reasons to kick someone besides bad reasons, like if someone gets stuck somewhere on the map they may need to be kicked to get unstuck.

A little off topic, but you can Suicide (default key "L") to respawn back at the start point

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