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@Soma2035 quote:1) Is your vacation taking up most of the month? I've been playing since DD2 went open alpha, and I've never once had a daily quest that couldn't be rerolled into at least a 3-6 or 4-5 option. That's a minimum of 3 tokens per day, plus the ability to save up to 3 daily quests and potentially do multiple daily quests at once. The worst case scenario (if you roll 3 on 3-6 for every daily quest) is 17 missions, which can be done in 6 days of gameplay spread out over 18 days if you time it well. I guess if you go on a two-week vacation, you can potentially fall a little bit short due to RNG, but only by a little. Onslaught can bridge that gap, however tedious it may be.

2) Not true. Onslaught exists. Unreasonably tedious, I agree, but there is enough time in a month to win 50 tokens from Onslaught, so even if you get RNG-screwed as badly as possible, as long as you are willing and able to invest the playtime required, you can complete it.

3) Neither of us have Trendy's code. However, I can attest that between myself and three other friends through about a month of gameplay, none of us have ever seen a daily reroll that didn't offer at least a minimum of 3 tokens. Now, it might be possible, but that's like saying it might be possible for you to not get any item drops from a map except from special enemies and chests. It's possible but so improbable that it hasn't happened to anyone and doesn't merit Trendy designing the game around the possibility of it happening multiple times in a row.

I appreciate your attempt at addressing my issues, but again, you're using anecdotal evidence that doesn't disprove what I'm saying. I have PERSONALLY seen 5 days straight of the highest token I could obtain being 3, in a 1-3 daily. Oh, and not one of those days did I actually get 3. I got 3 1's and 2 2's. Trying to imply that because you didn't get RNG f'ed, and three of your friends didn't get RNG f'ed, is evidence no one can, isn't logically sound thinking.


Your only claim to an argument is onslaught, which I have also PERSONALLY run, and haven't yielded one single token. But just for the record, onslaught is not actually an acceptable point in this argument. Look at it from this perspective, you're saying that to help curb the RNG from daily quests, you should... go play with another RNG mechanism. That's like saying "Oh, no luck playing at the craps table? You had better go play roulette to make up for your losses". Your argument isn't valid.


Edit:

To help clear some things up for people, I'll explain what an average is. An average is the typical value in a set of data. So what this means is, that if you're the average player, that means about half the player base is getting WORSE RNG than you.

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Can you send me a screenshot of your quest reroll with no options better than 1-3? I have never seen such a thing before. Obviously, short of stealing Trendy's code, I can't prove that getting a set of 1-3s or worse isn't possible, but proving that it is possible should be a trivial matter.

Onslaught is also not supposed to be an RNG mechanism. From what I've heard, you're supposed to be guaranteed a token for reaching wave 35. If there's a bug entailed, that's a different issue altogether.

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I've never really been one for screen shots, so they don't exist. At least, none of my bad luck. But most of those days started with getting the pet daily (which gives no tokens), and then the 2 reroll options (since 1 of the three is just the same quest) were 1-2 and 1-3's. Oh, and I started the month with 2 dailies saved.


But your logic here is flawed. There exists a list of all the dailies available, you can clearly see that in the span of a reroll (daily+2 extra options), there are enough daily variations in which filling those 3 spots for the day with bad token rolls is possible. The only way you can say it's not, is if there is a safeguard in the code preventing it. You're the one making a claim something is impossible without proof. Basic math/logic/statistics shows it IS possible without safeguards.


Not sure if you've been reading the forums or not, but people are consistently complaining about onslaught not giving tokens, at any of the RUMOURED wave "milestones" going around. No on can agree on which wave is supposed to be a guaranteed anything, and each wave that is mentioned, there is someone saying they didn't get *** for clearing that wave. I've heard you're supposed to get a guaranteed one basically at every multiple of 5 after 15. I assure you if you read the forums, you'll see what I'm seeing.

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@Desirous quote:

I've never really been one for screen shots, so they don't exist. At least, none of my bad luck. But most of those days started with getting the pet daily (which gives no tokens), and then the 2 reroll options (since 1 of the three is just the same quest) were 1-2 and 1-3's. Oh, and I started the month with 2 dailies saved.


But your logic here is flawed. There exists a list of all the dailies available, you can clearly see that in the span of a reroll (daily+2 extra options), there are enough daily variations in which filling those 3 spots for the day with bad token rolls is possible. The only way you can say it's not, is if there is a safeguard in the code preventing it. You're the one making a claim something is impossible without proof. Basic math/logic/statistics shows it IS possible without safeguards.


Not sure if you've been reading the forums or not, but people are consistently complaining about onslaught not giving tokens, at any of the RUMOURED wave "milestones" going around. No on can agree on which wave is supposed to be a guaranteed anything, and each wave that is mentioned, there is someone saying they didn't get *** for clearing that wave. I've heard you're supposed to get a guaranteed one basically at every multiple of 5 after 15. I assure you if you read the forums, you'll see what I'm seeing.

I'm not making a claim. YOU are making a claim, that it is possible to get a daily that doesn't offer any option better than 1-3. You are furthermore using this claim as the foundation of your argument. Your claim disagrees with my experience (which indicate that such a safeguard does indeed exist). Several other posters on this thread have indicated that their experiences matches mine.

The burden of proof falls upon you to justify your claim and the argument that relies upon your claim.

And yes, I've read complaints about Onslaught. Onslaught currently awards pets / weapons in a consistent manner. It does not appear to award currency in a consistent manner, compounded with the fact that counters in this game do not always update correctly in the UI (meaning that even if it DOES award the player correctly, it might not appear to be doing so, or vice versa). This is a bug, and not a valid point to argue balance based upon. Hypothetically, if a Squire suddenly started dealing 50,000x as much damage with his attacks as he does now, the correct answer is to fix whatever bug is causing it, not change the Hero Damage daily to be 50,000x higher.

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Again, basic logic, math, statistics, philosophy, spaghetti, and the Mona Lisa disagree with you here.


http://wiki.dungeondefenders2.com/wiki/Daily_Missions


Some of those numbers are wrong, but just from the pet quests alone, you can fill your entire daily reroll with absolutely no tokens. Now, in regards to you saying you can't take me at my word that I have indeed had such luck, well that's on you, I couldn't give a crap if you believe me. It works both ways, you haven't shown screen shots of not getting bad luck. Not that it matters, because again, it's possible just based on daily variations. Go take a class.

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If your point is that you may get mathematically done over by RNG, I agree.

However, get over it.  The other quests had RNG elements. I suspect future quests will have RNG elements. If you cannot accept this I suggest you find another game.


@Desirous quote:

Why should Trendy randomly disqualify people who go on vacations from a once in a life time opportunity?

Why should they  not. Who said monthly quests are for everyone all of the time? They probably thought that almost everyone could do it and those that could not would get over it as they would be on a super holiday somewhere not stressing about missing this 'once in a lifetime opportunity'.


@Desirous quote:

Why would Trendy make a monthly quest that has the potential of making it so absolutely no amount of effort could help you complete it?

1. Because it is your monthly quest. Why should they design it so you can be carried/helped. It is a quest not a carry.

2. In any event you have been shown that you could be helped via Onslaught.

@Desirous quote:


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So your counter-argument, just so we're clear, is "get over it"?

I also love the rest of your points, literally just ignoring basic common sense. "Oh hey, I'm a game developer, and in my spare time I like to make required content incompletable by random demographics that play my game". Yes, you're absolutely right, game developers don't have to cater to their player base. Good on you for bringing that point up, and then making it the focal point of your whole argument. You're a very clever person. Now please, list all your successful endeavors showcasing how not giving two ***s about your customer base equates to profits.


I especially love this line "1. Because it is your monthly quest. Why should they design it so you can be carried/helped. It is a quest not a carry."!!!


Please explain to me the following:

1. How the current monthly removes all ability to help and/or carry someone to completion. Oh wait, it doesn't.

2. Show me where, even just ONCE, I stated that I wanted to be carried and/or helped to complete the monthly. Oh wait, I didn't.


Why do you touch little boys? See, I can throw baseless accusations around too. I just don't because I can read what people type, and only ever put words in their mouth in hyperbole to prove a point.

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I have been having no problem rerolling dailies to get 3-6 or 5-10 token ones..  if u happen to have bad luck just wait till tomorrow and reroll again, remember u can store up to 3 daily quests.

lets do some easy math to show how easy it is.  Day 1 daily roll (bad) reroll (bad). Day 2 second daily rolled bad reroll still bad, day 3, daily rolled ok, u reroll another one that rolls ok, u do both, u back to 1 bad roll.  its very easy to get 3-6 if u dont get 5-10.

3-6 = average 4.5 = 12 daily quests = 12 days.  Very easy for anyone to do this monthly. Again almost too easy. Monthly quests shld be some what challenging and not easy to the point where you only have to spend 3 hours in 1 month to get it.

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@flashvoker quote:

Also when rerolling there always HAVE to be a daily with atleast 1-3 token roll chance. 

Pet dailies don't offer any tokens at all. I unfortunately got this one day:

lhak8p6.jpg

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@Desirous quote:

So your counter-argument, just so we're clear, is "get over it"?

I also love the rest of your points, literally just ignoring basic common sense. "Oh hey, I'm a game developer, and in my spare time I like to make required content incompletable by random demographics that play my game". Yes, you're absolutely right, game developers don't have to cater to their player base. Good on you for bringing that point up, and then making it the focal point of your whole argument. You're a very clever person. Now please, list all your successful endeavors showcasing how not giving two ***s about your customer base equates to profits.


I especially love this line "1. Because it is your monthly quest. Why should they design it so you can be carried/helped. It is a quest not a carry."!!!


Please explain to me the following:

1. How the current monthly removes all ability to help and/or carry someone to completion. Oh wait, it doesn't.

2. Show me where, even just ONCE, I stated that I wanted to be carried and/or helped to complete the monthly. Oh wait, I didn't.


Why do you touch little boys? See, I can throw baseless accusations around too. I just don't because I can read what people type, and only ever put words in their mouth in hyperbole to prove a point.

It is not a counter argument, I do not argue with trolls. It is a suggestion.

This is an RNG based game. You seem unable to accept that. Move along

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@hammerjacknumber1 quote:

It is not a counter argument, I do not argue with trolls. It is a suggestion.

This is an RNG based game. You seem unable to accept that. Move along

Right, because using math, logic, and rational thinking from the perspective of both a player and a game developer, makes me a troll. You seem too uneducated to understand something extremely trivial. Move along.

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@Desirous quote:

So your counter-argument, just so we're clear, is "get over it"?

I also love the rest of your points, literally just ignoring basic common sense. "Oh hey, I'm a game developer, and in my spare time I like to make required content incompletable by random demographics that play my game". Yes, you're absolutely right, game developers don't have to cater to their player base. Good on you for bringing that point up, and then making it the focal point of your whole argument. You're a very clever person. Now please, list all your successful endeavors showcasing how not giving two ***s about your customer base equates to profits.


I especially love this line "1. Because it is your monthly quest. Why should they design it so you can be carried/helped. It is a quest not a carry."!!!


Please explain to me the following:

1. How the current monthly removes all ability to help and/or carry someone to completion. Oh wait, it doesn't.

2. Show me where, even just ONCE, I stated that I wanted to be carried and/or helped to complete the monthly. Oh wait, I didn't.


Why do you touch little boys? See, I can throw baseless accusations around too. I just don't because I can read what people type, and only ever put words in their mouth in hyperbole to prove a point.

You have used none of those to any effect other than to say that if you cannot play DD2 for a significant number of days in the month the monthly quest may be difficult or possibly impossible. That is accepted.

You are making a lot of noise but saying little.

Throwing around insults that speak more of your own likely inadequacies than anyone else here on the forum.

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Sure there are plenty of dailies that don't give many tokens but over the full span of the month youll have to be pretty unlucky not to get your quota. End game onslaught is there if it is really important to you to get a pet and some more tokens.

Nothing to get stressed about either way if you go on holiday, like I did just come back and you have 9 chances to get decent dailies for tokens.

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I would like to point out that I am a newb, I started playing this game only in late october. I cannot do much in nightmare at all. Why mention this? the date is 11/11/2015 and I already got the narwhal.  I am not bragging, just saying all you need is a few dailies and your done.

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For those who want some numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgO2c6R7imzi5m9KGSZoGtrH-KABuLh2B7hbLlthHfA

Quest source: http://wiki.dungeondefenders2.com/wiki/Daily_Missions

The above spreadsheet assumes that each quest has equal probability of rolling. It does not take into account the option of rerolling a quest that does not provide tokens as rewards. In other words, if you were to accept the quest you received and not reroll any of them, you would, on average, receive 2.81 tokens per day, equating to 84.3 tokens per month.

Additional notes/assumptions:
- Quests that had unknown (?) token rewards according to the source above were given a value of 0. In other words, these quests actually bring the true average down because they may in fact actually reward tokens.
- An additional column is provided that gives the average number of tokens (2.1) if quests that reward 0 tokens actually had twice the probability of rolling as quests that do reward tokens. Given this, you would still average 63 tokens per month (again without factoring in the ability to reroll quests).

The above has been calculated with the best information I could find. If anyone has a more up-to-date daily mission source, let me know and I'd be happy to update the spreadsheet.

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@Ajido quote:


@flashvoker quote:

Also when rerolling there always HAVE to be a daily with atleast 1-3 token roll chance. 

Pet dailies don't offer any tokens at all. I unfortunately got this one day:

lhak8p6.jpg

love that picture - just a question what happens more often a 0 token - or a reroll with 3-6 or better options? (if it is the 3-6 one or if it is aroudn thesame i would say that really bad rng here doesnt matter because you finish intime)

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@xCrispy quote:

For those who want some numbers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgO2c6R7imzi5m9KGSZoGtrH-KABuLh2B7hbLlthHfA

Quest source: http://wiki.dungeondefenders2.com/wiki/Daily_Missions

The above spreadsheet assumes that each quest has equal probability of rolling. It does not take into account the option of rerolling a quest that does not provide tokens as rewards. In other words, if you were to accept the quest you received and not reroll any of them, you would, on average, receive 2.81 tokens per day, equating to 84.3 tokens per month.

Additional notes/assumptions:
- Quests that had unknown (?) token rewards according to the source above were given a value of 0. In other words, these quests actually bring the true average down because they may in fact actually reward tokens.
- An additional column is provided that gives the average number of tokens (2.1) if quests that reward 0 tokens actually had twice the probability of rolling as quests that do reward tokens. Given this, you would still average 63 tokens per month (again without factoring in the ability to reroll quests).

The above has been calculated with the best information I could find. If anyone has a more up-to-date daily mission source, let me know and I'd be happy to update the spreadsheet.

I find your wording hilarious. For starters, your assumption, however likely, isn't confirmed. So no, you can't say "these quests actually bring the true average down". If you're going to be scientific about something, maybe choose your wording more carefully as to not show your bias.


And since your bias is visible, paired with the fact the you argued the point earlier, and then the post is in THIS thread, I have a baseline of what your point is as a result of all this effort. You're implying everyone should be able to complete the quest. But it doesn't discount for, again, people who go on vacation for 2 weeks who are arbitrarily disqualified from attaining the once-in-a-lifetime pet (excluding wicked RNG in their favour of course).


Not that it needs to address that point, because your data still needs to get over the hurdle of disproving itself. You literally state "average", not sure if you know what that means. That means just as many people who get more than that, will get LESS than that. I mean, take a look at that guys screen shot of his re-roll yielding NO tokens. Everyone just keeps ignoring what the word average means, and then implies I'm the one that doesn't get it. lol.


P.S. Totally just noticed you went back and edited your post on page 3, lol, epic. It doesn't edit my quote of you though.

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