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So do any End game players like the Hero Deck?


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I keep hearing about how people enjoy the Hero Deck, but they are below NM in general. So they don't really count as the game changes from that point, as you can't really solo it with just one builder anymore.

So what I want to know is if their are any end game players that actually enjoy the HD.

If so why?

Most end game players I know hate it, but if you like it speak up.

If you hate it, tell me why as well.

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Just breaking into NM4.  I don't like it.  I have over 10 heroes leveled up for different builds, but yet I'm super limited.  Play mostly solo and feel even more limited there.

Just thinking about the future with many more builds and even new heroes down the time.  Hero Deck just isn't going to work.  

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@JCourtney quote:

with many more builds and even new heroes down the time

that's one of the best arguments FOR the hero deck.  you don't GET to use everything in the game at your disposal.  you are limited to the best thing you can make with 4 heros

besides think how dumb setting up a map would be if you had to swap through 7 characters to build and then DPS on the eighth.  think how stupid it is telling a new player that they need to level 8 characters to viably play end-game content

:P

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My opinion is that number of slots in Hero deck should grow as game develops into more builds. At the moment I would prefer to have 5 slots, 4 builders and 1 dps. Beside that I think it is beneficial to have some limitations in terms of possible strategies. Cheers!

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The deck is one of best things about the game.  It makes you think carefully of who you want to bring to complete the stage.  If you could have the best of all worlds, wouldn't that be imbalanced and defeat the challenge of endgame?  Also, wouldn't that be a huge blow to those stuck with 4 slots from not spending real cash?  I think the deck is fine like it is.  I can play nightmare 4 without dps, though I am not attempting incursion NM4 anytime soon.

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Just scratched NM4, farming wave2.


Its actually impossible to remove it because the classes are not balanced. When every class is able to play alone, maybe then its removeable. I like the fact the game is constructed to play together and the heros are addicted to each other and this is simulated in solo play with the herodeck.

We are playing as 3 mates. When 1 of us is actually afk or offline we cant play properly because 1 has the hearthy barricades, 1 has the traps and i have massive squiretower and a DPS+AP huntress. I actually level my own (my second) squire just to have hearthy barricades myself because i want to play too sometimes when my mate is offline.

Imagine how boring it would be when the guy who placed just some hearthy barricades need to stay with this hero ingame.

Removing the herodeck needs balanced herobuilds, no more extrem stacking of 1 stat. Then all classes must be reasonable and usefull. Its also very very disapointing to force people to play together, interact together in random groups. Not everyone plays with mates like me, as solo player to be addicted to random players is very very annoying!

I didnt like the herodeck before i see any thread about it allready myself. I was disapointed when i relized it the first time i can change the hero. I am a experienced player general and and i had a bad feeling with the heroswapping instant i realized its possible. Its not the perfect solution but its at least any solution so far. Stay on one hero only is actually impossible or much worse than the herodeck itself.

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Kind of disheartening so many people are talking about the difficulty of the game with regards to the hero deck..

I don't think talking about difficulty is appropriate when discussing the hero deck - it doesn't really do much there.  My rationale for that is in the below quote (do we have spoiler functionality on these forums?).  Opinions on the hero deck are after.

 Just recently started to be able to do greystone plaza NM4 reliably solo.  ATM, I don't think the hero deck really affects solo play from a difficulty standpoint, and I believe it sucks equally hard in co-op as it does in solo (ok, marginally less for co-op).  Co-op is easier than solo because of 3 extra bodies.

There is 0% chance of me being able to do an afkable NM4 run where only towers do the work.  If I'm solo I absolutely need huntress to be dishing out 400k+ grenades and constantly keeping the "hard" lane in check.  As well as being the only anti-air (no way am I sinking 100 DU for skyguards to handle them, such a waste of DU).  With 4 players, each holding a lane and 1-2 turning around to shoot at air is cake compared to me having to hold a hard lane + air + bosses in other lanes.  

I would be for it if we had many multiplicative tower functions though.   Like a frosty that buffed towers, including a boost aura that boosted towers.  Or towers that increased the attack speed of other towers - multiplying the effectiveness of DP.  Things like that.  But we don't have that, and if we did - WOW, would solo players be absolutely destroyed in NM4 if it were tuned for ~16 multiplicative properties.  Anyway, trendy's made it clear they're against that and will nerf whatever's like that.

Doesn't matter if we have 100 heroes available.  Will still only be able to play one during waves and will still have the same # of DU.  Game wont get easy overnight because the hero deck is removed.  It's purely a much needed quality of life improvement for players.

We know what the hero deck was intended to do, and it doesn't even do that.  If I were to join a public game what would happen is we'd compare towers and I'd be the builder, despite a hero deck.  It does its job so poorly that people are basically encouraged not to "try things out" solo because of the hero deck getting in the way of things.   


It's purely restrictive in the worst way.  It promotes the "cookie cutter" build because it's so easy to figure it out.  No matter what passives get introduced or what balancing happens... we'll need a waller, and we'll need a DPS.  Which leaves us with 2 slots to come up with the highest DPS/DU for magic and physical lanes.  That is such an easy equation to solve (in the current version of the game it's basically a no brainer, but I'm not shocked so many people don't see it.. it's a f2p game afterall) and it makes it really easy to spot the "bad player", further stigmatize people (on all sides), and create a more toxic gaming community


Another thing is I've got very good gear for DPS app, a crit flamethrower build, and monk... but they never get any use (unless I build an afk map in <NM4) which kind of defeats the purpose of building them in the first place.  There's really very little reason to play after getting 4 characters geared up.  It's fun to get gear, it's fun to use that gear.  Progression and all that jazz..


I think it's purely about quality of life, not difficulty, not nostalgia, not whatever other shallow  insults get thrown around in these discussions about the hero deck.

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@AshaMarie quote:

The deck is one of best things about the game.  It makes you think carefully of who you want to bring to complete the stage.  If you could have the best of all worlds, wouldn't that be imbalanced and defeat the challenge of endgame?  Also, wouldn't that be a huge blow to those stuck with 4 slots from not spending real cash?  I think the deck is fine like it is.  I can play nightmare 4 without dps, though I am not attempting incursion NM4 anytime soon.

Interesting.

This is the reasoning I want to hear more of. No matter what your opinion is, as long as you tell me why you either like it or hate it I'm good.

I personally want it gone, however since TE are adamant in keeping it and to save it from being pay 2 win you could buy the new Hero Deck slots with Wyvern token at a limit of course.

That way you still have to buy Hero slots with gems if you want more Hero slots, which wouldn't effect anyone who has done so to this point.

This will give the Hardcore players incentive to keep playing and reward them in doing so, since they want to use more than 4 to experiment with new builds which is understandable. It will keep the people who casually play or who want to just DPS at the same level.

It's the perfect solution and I dare anyone to come up with a flaw for it.




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+1 for hero deck, if this game was not challenging i would not enjoy it. HD makes you think ahead and have do the best with what you can bring.

Casual players can do all other content, for end make lets make it hard.

I would not be opposed to removing the hd for all difficulties under nm1

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The problem ist not the hero deck, but the "1 character per tower" design enforced by the passive abilities.
It makes you level and equip way more characters then the deck can hold (8-15?).
This combined with a decksize of 4 brings ppl to the point where "the hero deck is bad".

I dont think removing the hero deck is a good solution. There are some more major design decisions pending to decide on the future of the deck imho.


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the hero deck only makes the game harder for solo players. If you play in a group you can just build, leave game, then rejoining the game by your friend with your dps. 

The hero deck is SUPPOSED to limit the amount of heros you can use at one time, and it works properly in single player considering thats the intention, but as soon as you make a group the hero deck is more of an inconvenience then a limiter. I guess you could say that the hero deck works somewhat properly for quick play assuming the lobby doenst have a frined of yours, but you can just change that by adding someone...

Because of this the hero deck only makes the game harder for solo players and they generally already have the hardest time considering if you play solo you have to gear ALL your characters and not just one or two.

The hero deck is poorly implemented and should be removed, or at the very least make it so solo players arnt limited in deck size and it would be like the deck doesnt exist anyways.

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@Devils_Demon quote:

+1 for hero deck, if this game was not challenging i would not enjoy it. HD makes you think ahead and have do the best with what you can bring.

Casual players can do all other content, for end make lets make it hard.

I would not be opposed to removing the hd for all difficulties under nm1

Laughing my ass off, please - get yourself into nm4 and not repeat playing the same old characters that are of the same ol build - please tell me how versatile HD makes solo players feel

wow, i always wanted to try and gear up my dps monk - i can do this is nm3, come nm4 - hell no

hmmm, i always wanted to try out a dps squire - i can again do this in nm3, come solo in nm4 - wow yeah 1 wave.. fun

please please, put up a video of yourself in nm4, with 4 so different hero build that a solo player can do.


HD on paper makes so much sense, but truly one has to put yourself not just in co-op players shoes (which HD shines in)

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@playlessNamer quote:

Just scratched NM4, farming wave2.


Its actually impossible to remove it because the classes are not balanced. When every class is able to play alone, maybe then its removeable. I like the fact the game is constructed to play together and the heros are addicted to each other and this is simulated in solo play with the herodeck.

We are playing as 3 mates. When 1 of us is actually afk or offline we cant play properly because 1 has the hearthy barricades, 1 has the traps and i have massive squiretower and a DPS+AP huntress. I actually level my own (my second) squire just to have hearthy barricades myself because i want to play too sometimes when my mate is offline.

Imagine how boring it would be when the guy who placed just some hearthy barricades need to stay with this hero ingame.

Removing the herodeck needs balanced herobuilds, no more extrem stacking of 1 stat. Then all classes must be reasonable and usefull. Its also very very disapointing to force people to play together, interact together in random groups. Not everyone plays with mates like me, as solo player to be addicted to random players is very very annoying!

I didnt like the herodeck before i see any thread about it allready myself. I was disapointed when i relized it the first time i can change the hero. I am a experienced player general and and i had a bad feeling with the heroswapping instant i realized its possible. Its not the perfect solution but its at least any solution so far. Stay on one hero only is actually impossible or much worse than the herodeck itself.

that's cool that you're in NM4 with only 2 characters geared up but to say that the hero deck can't be removed because classes aren't balanced and go on to say:

 "We are playing as 3 mates. When 1 of us is actually afk or offline we cant play properly because 1 has the hearthy barricades, 1 has the traps and i have massive squiretower and a DPS+AP huntress. I actually level my own (my second) squire just to have hearthy barricades myself because i want to play too sometimes when my mate is offline."

I can't take that opinion seriously. 

you're supposed to gear up multiple heroes to be able to get into nightmare, let alone NM4.  I don't think that's really unfair of me say since I believe(?) that's a core game mechanic and has been lauded as such by the devs


This is like another thread I skimmed through and saw someone agreeing with "Ipwr isn't everything!" by saying something like, "ya I'm in NM4 with multiple pieces of gear in the 100 ipwr range ^_^" like, you're not really in NM4.. you're being carried


I realize I'm basically calling your opinion here not relevant and I hope you wont take offense to it; I'm super happy you're having a good time with your friends playing.  I just don't like that you're using that as your evidence for the hero deck being good when it wouldn't affect you at all because you're playing with 2 (now starting a 3rd) character.

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I've been thinking about this and I actually have a very unpopular opinion about it, because I'd actually be in favor of nerfing the hero deck to only 3 slots, so players would have to find other players to complement their building, but this would force players to interact with others and I think many players and mostly solo players would never agree with this, so what if it were something like increasing / decreasing the slots depending on the current players inside a map?

1 Player in match:   6 Hero slots
2 Players in match: 5 Hero Slots
3 Players in match: 4 Hero Slots
4 Players in match: 3 Hero Slots


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All the maps are quite easy to solo, some of the 1ks are much harder. Use builders no dps required.  If you cant solo its because your builds need tweaked or the 4 brought are not geared enough for nm4.

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@Devils_Demon quote:

All the maps are quite easy to solo, some of the 1ks are much harder. Use builders no dps required.  If you cant solo its because your builds need tweaked or the 4 brought are not geared enough for nm4.

What?  You're able to do the 1000 ipwr NM4 maps with no active DPS?  


How do you build?

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@Devils_Demon quote:

All the maps are quite easy to solo, some of the 1ks are much harder. Use builders no dps required.  If you cant solo its because your builds need tweaked or the 4 brought are not geared enough for nm4.


When you reach Incursion NM 4 you will never see such thing as "we don't need dps", you will rather see "do you have dps?", even tho there are players capable to solo it they most likely have top inc NM 4 gear on all the heroes being used

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use current meta, body blocking with wall squire, if not using squire hunt still does 30k dps app does 25k , i never play my monk.  Graystone is my favorite to solo but the wall agro bug is a pain.


edit: if quibly spawns and i do not have a dps its around 80% ill lose, Quibly is God of dps

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@Devils_Demon quote:

use current meta, body blocking with wall squire, if not using squire hunt still does 30k dps app does 25k , i never play my monk.  Graystone is my favorite to solo but the wall agro bug is a pain.


edit: if quibly spawns and i do not have a dps its around 80% ill lose, Quibly is God of dps

:\ this is so hard to believe... can you be more descriptive?

My gear is pretty good.. 10% tripwire,  2.6k explosive dps, 2.9k elem dps.  Frosties with 3,473 DP with 79% power up (yeah, legacy gear, but this further drives the point home) and +98 Dspeed.

and there is just no way I can even imagine that map (the one I can solo semi-reliably) is getting done without my DPS huntress on bosses/hard lanes + air. 


And you are apparently able to do that map with just builders.  How lucky have you gotten to be able to get really good hearty blockade rolls on gear WITH physical resist on everything to be able to tank on the squire that's building the walls?  


And your squire is able to wall lanes while subsequently running around and healing the blockades in other lanes that are getting pounded on by bosses/hard lane?  And you're able to sit out and heal every now and then?  Or is a serenity aura in every lane?  If a serenity aura is in every lane that's another 80 DU with the additional required 50 from skyguard since no dps.  


I've got really good tower DPS and ALL the DU is used for 4 walls, 8 frosties, and the rest are traps that I throw at the lanes so I'm very suspect that you're implying tower DPS is enough to deal with the damage output of bosses + hard lane well enough to be able to run around repairing everything. 


C'mon, are you really in NM4 soloing with only builders?

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Not surprised... I'd bet everyone will lol

Especially with the quibly edit.  He's tough because he finds a niche to attack a blockade where the fewest traps can hit him... but he also often glitches out and ignores the crystal in search for another blockade 


I've ran NM greystone plaza A LOT and the few times that it was quibly that destroyed the blockade he just ran up to another one - saving me the run.  To estimate 80% lose rate to quibly and say that's the hardest... not the 3 ogre + hard lane wave?  crazy, imo 


Hell, even now after the spooky patch the slekelton or whatever the misspelling is revives so you can have a 3 ogre + slekelton + hard lane wave.  That's not THAT bad with a DPS huntress just plowing it over with stickynades before ogres spawn but with no DPS?  Man <_< this is all so unbelievable

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@Pachipachio quote:

 

My gear is pretty  VERY VERY good.. 10% tripwire,  2.6k explosive dps, 2.9k elem dps.  Frosties with 3,473 DP with 79% power up (yeah, legacy gear, but this further drives the point home) and +98 Dspeed.

 

Just my opinion on your rather nice stats

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No I don't like it. 

Some say it makes the game challenging. But making the game challenging by removing all diversity is not the right way. It forces us to make a decision we can't make at that point. 

The only choice it gives us is to bring everything to beat the map by ourself. <- See how it kills team play

How are we supposed to know what our team brings to the table? And even if would know, the DU limits us enough already. Someone being able to put some extra poison towers or flame throwers down and then change to is dps won't make him steamroll NM4 solo. 

And even if the game becomes more easy without it just make it harder again! Most players won't be affected by it anyway because it doesn't matter if you bring 2 or 200 heroes to a hard or insane map.




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A dynamic HD would be best.

Solo you get all heroes and based on the number of players in game at the start of the build phase you get x fewer until when you are playing four player game you have the 4 that Trendy seem to want to stick with.

Couple that with a private game that could be opened to public then we get everyone favourite.

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I don't like the hero deck. I think it is the reason why I have never seen any of the huntress builds. I think that if we were allowed more freedom that people would be more keen to trying more builds, therefore lvling more chars, playing the game more, etc. At the very least, let me swap out heroes I do not use, if someone has a better waller than me, let me switch to my dps and not be stuck with one of my builders.

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