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JCourtney

We need more tower defense strategy.

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They need to figure out a way to get this game to be more about tower placement strategy for map success.  I feel it's a little too action RPG orientated right now.  Pretty much the towers are just supporting you and not the other way around.  The towers need to be doing the bulk of the work. 

This game should be more about finding optimal defense placement than just pure DPS heroes owning lanes.  

Needs more strategy and less Diablo.  Right now you just throw the towers without much thought and just DPS lanes.  

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I don't know why they don't have the setup timers from DD1 in. The rush to get stuff set up/upgraded in time was always a good challenge to start things off. 

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@Pegazul quote:

I don't know why they don't have the setup timers from DD1 in. 

Because this has nothing to do with placement strategy. A build timer forces you to learn the build by heart and then just rush out and build it in time.

If there is need of a weird game mode we could also have a 'selfdestruction mode' where your towers can damgage you and your other towers but not other players' towers.

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@Dreizehn quote:


@Pegazul quote:

I don't know why they don't have the setup timers from DD1 in. 

Because this has nothing to do with placement strategy. A build timer forces you to learn the build by heart and then just rush out and build it in time.

If there is need of a weird game mode we could also have a 'selfdestruction mode' where your towers can damgage you and your other towers but not other players' towers.

That sounds like a masochist mode.


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A while back most of us cried out to get DPS heroes to actually have an impact. Trendy listened, and thank god for that. before the change we were just repair bots.

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@JCourtney quote:

They need to figure out a way to get this game to be more about tower placement strategy for map success.  I feel it's a little too action RPG orientated right now.  Pretty much the towers are just supporting you and not the other way around.  The towers need to be doing the bulk of the work. 

This game should be more about finding optimal defense placement than just pure DPS heroes owning lanes.  

Needs more strategy and less Diablo.  Right now you just throw the towers without much thought and just DPS lanes.  

This is because the maps are so basic. There is an obvious place for you to place your towers and so you put them there. In DD1 they had some much more open maps that allowed for greater creativity in builds. Where as in DD2 there are just lanes and spaces for towers.

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The problem is a different one, expecially for me as a mostly single player guy.

I am actually stuck in NM 2 in first two maps with 350.

Alone I miss a DPS cause towers sucks ass and just can't DPS enough, so I can only gear my DPS-Huntress which means I cant have any progress as of now. cause my builders never get new gear.

My chars are all 330-360 in I Power with okayish stats, and those two maps are freaking crazy.

And when I try to find a public game most of the time ppl are geared worse then me and we loose in the first 2 rounds. And its really no solution to set the bar to the recommended I Power level, cause the I Power level to clear a map just drops in those levels.

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Note once you hit nightmare, the more players, the harder it is. Soloing is easier than playing in a group because the difficulty (hard lanes, resist, etc) scale in a way that makes group play the stupid way to play. Obviously this isn't how most of us -want- to play. Note: this scaling doesn't happen in incursions which is why if you aren't already, you should be playing nm incursion for gearing, not freeplay nm. Stupid, but true.

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With the difficulty scale Trendy set...having up to NM4, tower placement really isn't a big deal in early difficulties.
Hit NM3 and try to do it without explosive/frosty combo.  Requires better tower placement 'cause they can easily get 1-2 shot if not placed right...either by AoE, a spare javelin, or being in a bad line of sight to the enemy. 
But, yeah, I agree.  And I didn't know that about Incursions.  Hm.  I noticed the scaling for NM+ from solo to multiple people is pretty crazy.  My cousin and I have duoed most of the game, and now I solo play for equips and 'cause he's been distracted by other games.  Difficulty change is phenomenal.

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@Chrome // Kepk quote:


@JCourtney quote:

They need to figure out a way to get this game to be more about tower placement strategy for map success.  I feel it's a little too action RPG orientated right now.  Pretty much the towers are just supporting you and not the other way around.  The towers need to be doing the bulk of the work. 

This game should be more about finding optimal defense placement than just pure DPS heroes owning lanes.  

Needs more strategy and less Diablo.  Right now you just throw the towers without much thought and just DPS lanes.  

This is because the maps are so basic. There is an obvious place for you to place your towers and so you put them there. In DD1 they had some much more open maps that allowed for greater creativity in builds. Where as in DD2 there are just lanes and spaces for towers.

This could be part of it.  The current maps might as well just have signs saying towers here.  Obvious choke points, etc.  

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Back in WC3 custom game days I liked TD games like cube defense and what not that allowed you to build mazes. I'm not sure if they could add some way of building mazes to this game or not, it would be neat if you could. The current monster AI/pathing is pretty bad so it would need to be improved a lot for mazes to function. 

They could add spheres maybe that made existing walls into smaller units and made mobs ignore all towers built by that hero unless no path was available. 

They could also add an option that let you disable player DPS during combat phase for the tradeoff of additional mana and DU. I don't think an entire extra mode would really be needed (though I think DD1 has one), just an option you could activate in any mode. For public games it could just seek games that also had the option on/off depending on if you have it on or off. 

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Yes I dislike that towers feel weak and are not the stars. It seems a little to Diablo III inspired for me. I don't really play anymore but listening to the dev streams I should probably  just accept that the game direction is going to go away from what I loved about DDI (tower defence with RPG elements) and to a more action RPG like Diablo or other MMO. 

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@Dreizehn quote:


@Pegazul quote:

I don't know why they don't have the setup timers from DD1 in. 

Because this has nothing to do with placement strategy. A build timer forces you to learn the build by heart and then just rush out and build it in time.

If there is need of a weird game mode we could also have a 'selfdestruction mode' where your towers can damgage you and your other towers but not other players' towers.

I disagree, builds can change dramatically when you put people on a timer to complete it. But the game would still need more then just a build timer, it needs more heros, so I shall continue to beg for my summoners return.

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DD1 had a ton more options(classes, towers, summons) and DUs because there where not as many obvious choke points etc. I mean i remember the common setup for knights game was some crazy box of harpoons and summoner walls in the middle of each level.

The current meta is bad because its balanced around the frosty crap which only works with trap type stuff and only in a certain way. So all setups end up very similar and without the fun towers.  I don't know why there is no simple fix to either remove the way frosty works currently and adjust enemy HP accordingly. Or make it so it works for other towers as well. So we can start using the full range of towers again.  That at least would be a step in the right direction.

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@tenabrae quote:

Note once you hit nightmare, the more players, the harder it is. Soloing is easier than playing in a group because the difficulty (hard lanes, resist, etc) scale in a way that makes group play the stupid way to play. Obviously this isn't how most of us -want- to play. Note: this scaling doesn't happen in incursions which is why if you aren't already, you should be playing nm incursion for gearing, not freeplay nm. Stupid, but true.

Wait there is no team scaling in incursions? :O

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I play strictly solo and don't bother watching videos so I'm sure my method is different - I just beat a NM3 tier 3 map (Greystone) without a huntress or DPS- haven't tried it with the huntress instead of the apprentice yet. Just yesterday I decided to start using the apprentice for the first time in about 2 weeks (when I realized I needed a dedicated waller starting on NM2) so I've cleared NM3 maps with and without the use of the frost tower. My normal deck:

Squire (waller)

Squire (cannon/harpoon)

Monk (serenity aura with legendary passive weapon, AA/basic lightning aura)

Apprentice (builder) / Huntress (builder - has both elemental chaos and stickynades- only ubers I have)

I only ever play three maps really- Gates of Dragonfall, Liferoot Forest, and Greystone Plaza. My set up is virtually the same for every map. The numbers vary due to DU limitations. The OCD in me keeps all lanes as mirror images of each other as possible.

------

Two AA towers. All non-physical resist lanes get 3-4 cannons + 1 harpoon + 1-2 walls (depending on width of lane). All physical resist lanes gets: 1-2 walls, 3 lightning auras (2 that barely overlap and one that fits into that overlap), 1 serenity aura (for monk legendary passive).

If using the Apprentice: 3-4 fire towers, 1 frost tower

If using the Huntress: 3-4 PDTs depending on map/DU remaining and an elemental chaos trap or two.

A couple times, if DU allowed, I have used a boost aura with barrier health buff on the "high traffic" lane for even higher wall health (on NM3 only).

------

As far the waves themselves go, I'll judge which character to use based on the high traffic lane and bosses. If the heavy traffic lane is in the physical resist lane, I make sure to use my huntress or apprentice. I really only trust my monk on no boss, 'non-physical resist are high traffic' waves. I NEVER use my tower squire, only my waller one - has like 3-4x the health. When in doubt, I use my waller since he has the highest health by a long shot. The stun works just fine as a short CC effect, when needed. I haven't been as patient moving through NM3 so far or it could just be the increased difficulty, but I normally knew it was time for the next map when I could alt-tab or twiddle my thumbs during the waves.


On my first run of the day, I did NM3 Liferoot. I sacrificed the Chub or whatever so two magic resist lanes came through. I did use two frost towers here and I think about 7 cannon towards and 2 harpoons on the middle double lane. I had double ogres plus a high traffic lane on the last wave. I moved the harpoon from my "easy" lane" for extra power. It was actually a fairly boring final wave.

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Nightmare 4 is a whole jump above nightmare 3, tower builds just don't cut it... Generally it's build a big wall and stand round repairing it till the traps kill everything, dos makes it faster.

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Its not Fair to Build with 4 Towers. 

Every Class can more than 1.  It should be possible to put more Cannons in a lane, and they should have more Range. Its not fair that TRENDY forces you to build with Traps or Aura just because they dont get destroyd form enemys. So Far why do you even allow people to make this classes when they are waste of time?

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@JCourtney quote:

Right now you just throw the towers without much thought and just DPS lanes.  

When i play with nubs nm4 inc, which happens alot, its more about tower placement than dps monk_small.png

but ye this is really linear and annoying, idk if i'll continue to play when i'll have all my 9 char equipped with legendaries and passive nm4 inc. Kinda boring.

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The weapon, armour and equipment combos are way too messy.  The interactions are complicated unless you have a secret DD2 users manual. I wish that existed. A  dedicated training/testing room off your private tavern where you can try out these complicated combos and see the results clearly would greatly appreciated. In game there is so much graphical overload it is impossible to see what's going  sometimes  

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