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So many unskilled players in NM4


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@xCrispy quote:

If NM-equipped players had a way to level alts outside of Free Play hard, you wouldn't see that nearly as much. Believe me, I don't want to be doing Free Play hard leveling another char either, but I have no other choice. So you either AFK build until level 50, or you spend 2-3x as much time leveling as you want.

Private games are great for AFK, but the whole grind of leveling another character is so boring that the only way to break up the monotony is to join a public game and at least chat with other people. With that said, if I ever join a public Free Play hard match, and there are people already building, I let them build instead of saying "your stuff sucks, sell so I can afk."

Edit: Which is what I believe you were saying about needing the right balance.

@bigwillmcd quote:


@Zola quote:

They could go by a basic rule of thumb, that you have to clear all maps on a previous difficulty before the next is unlocked.

It prevents people from jumping straight ahead into NM4, they need to put their efford in going through all the lower maps first at least once and eventually learn something on their way.

While others still have the option to host their precious NM4 with friends, without being bothered by those that want to skip tiers and leach off.

Personally I'm mixed when it comes to Item Power Level requirements, since some good items have lower Item power than the ones I might require to use for a higher tier level.

Personally, I believe that there is a balance that must be found between lower level (hard or normal veteran) players playing too high a level for them and high levels (nm1+ veterans) playing maps too low for them .  For example, yesterday I had just finished my setup on Bazaar (freeplay hard) when a nm2 equipped huntress joins and proceeds to tell me that my setup needs to be sold so his AFK setup involving 2 traps at each gate can be put up.  Then, later I join a FP-hard throne room and find 2 nm3-equipped and 1 alt of a nm2 equipped players getting said alt to lvl 50.  We play and they then take me to a nm3 throne room, where I was woefully unprepared for that savagery.  After 3 waves I had my monk in gear of that lvl, and I fought for the rest of the map.  I believe many valid points have been made, but remember that this game just went FTP on Steam, and a good way to keep players coming is to have a helpful community.

hey ashlee feel free to add me, im happy to run with you to help you with nm3-nm4!

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I am having the same problem. Every Public NM4 I join I end up building everything while others afk or jump around the map expecting to be carried.

I am sure 90 % of them have just hit level 50 on there first characters.
Not understanding basics for NM1!

+1 IPLVL requirements need to be implemented back into the game. 

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Hm that is maybe a stupid question but how are undergeared players getting into NM3/4 anyways? I thought there was a iPWR-requirement to join harder difficulties o.O

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@OnlyPhantom quote:

Hm that is maybe a stupid question but how are undergeared players getting into NM3/4 anyways? I thought there was a iPWR-requirement to join harder difficulties o.O

You can random into any map if it is unlocked. Once you get your first character to 50 you finish the questline and move from freeplay to endgame. you can then join any map.

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@Accidental Potion quote:

You can random into any map if it is unlocked. Once you get your first character to 50 you finish the questline and move from freeplay to endgame. you can then join any map.

Oh wow that is pretty stupid in my opinion. I can't imagine that this would be intentional right? Besides how does someone find that out, I never even thought about that xD

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+1 for ipwr requirement. I started recently and can do only nm3 maps. But any nm map is a pain when you have random players who don't have knowledge appropriate for nm. I can solo all nm3 maps til Betsy but can't do any nm map (even first nm1 map) with random party 8/10 times unless i build everything and along with that use my dps charater (which makes it hard to farm gear for other characters).

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Looking at the amount of feedback and mostly with the same feeling maybe Trendy should look at gating NM3-4 in some way.

Whilst IPWR is a blunt tool at least it would help in the short term.

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I'm 50 and had no idea pole smash killed frozen enemies, but I don't think it makes to say the problem lies with the players or the matchmaking system. The real problem is that there's absolutely no challenge while levelling up, you can easily do free play on hard at lvl 25-30, and then you still have 20 levels ahead of you that's put grinding without the need to polish your skill. This should never be the case in any game, you should have engaging and difficult content all the way to 50 so you're forced to learn everything about the game in order to be successful. This is not a match making issue, this has to do solely with an horrible levelling system.

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Gating NM3/4 behind ipwr will work for about one hour.  Join a nm2 game.  Equip all the gear that drops, regardless of stats, since the only thing that matters is ipwr.  Move to nm3. repeat.

The only thing that will really fix the problem is fixing the leveling experience and then making everyone start over, which they can't do anymore.  Maybe it was a mistake to release open alpha and welcome twenty thousand new players to a leveling experience that was laughably easy due to the patch the week before.

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@Zuqual quote:

Gating NM3/4 behind ipwr will work for about one hour.  Join a nm2 game.  Equip all the gear that drops, regardless of stats, since the only thing that matters is ipwr.  Move to nm3. repeat.

The only thing that will really fix the problem is fixing the leveling experience and then making everyone start over, which they can't do anymore.  Maybe it was a mistake to release open alpha and welcome twenty thousand new players to a leveling experience that was laughably easy due to the patch the week before.

I agree iPWR isn't the solution, but even that 1hr would give players 1hr more experience and bring them that much close to the skill and gear level needed. I personally thing new quests "Win 10 nm1 maps" to unlock nm2 etc. would be better but anything would help

This gives the player gear and experience and hopefully will make them more comfortable with the differing play style of nightmare. I think a lot of the issue is the leveling experience leaves players in an AFK farm frame of mind. Someone will build for me, I AFK/ hold left mouse button.

NM4 everyone needs to repair, you need multiple people with builders so everyone can have a DPS character. I don't think I ever needed to repair in the battle phase pre nightmare revamp. I always upgraded if things got that damaged. There is nothing at the moment slowing the learning curve for this playstyle. Devs said that nm1-3 were supposed to be the practice grounds for nm4, to trial builds etc. The fact you can skip them all together says there is an issue. Even if its just a few maps, its better than nothing.

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@Canoas quote:

I'm 50 and had no idea pole smash killed frozen enemies, but I don't think it makes to say the problem lies with the players or the matchmaking system. The real problem is that there's absolutely no challenge while levelling up, you can easily do free play on hard at lvl 25-30, and then you still have 20 levels ahead of you that's put grinding without the need to polish your skill. This should never be the case in any game, you should have engaging and difficult content all the way to 50 so you're forced to learn everything about the game in order to be successful. This is not a match making issue, this has to do solely with an horrible levelling system.

I agree there are issues with freeplay, but it is not solely the issue. There are a few issues:

1. The change in play style in nm compared to freeplay (as you mentioned, no challenge in freeplay)
2. You can skip everything else in Endgame and go straight to nm4 incursion with a 150-200 iPWR lvl 50.
3. You can hone your skills, put in 500 hours and still get match made with these people who skipped all the content. There are maps you need 4 geared, knowledgeable players to win and at the moment the system can't tell get your the players you need together.

The 3rd point is what this thread is about. Before the game went open 9/10 times i joined a tavern id run into a nm3 /4 geared person. The player base is now 20 times larger, and they don't have the months behind them the older players do. They are quickly catching up but still public mm is an issue. I can't find people in a tavern to build a party before the map and I can't rely on the system. So many of the top geared players only do private. We need those players back in the player pool and fixing leveling won't do that.

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I do searches in nm4 all the time, i host em too, normally find zero games and normally the same 5 people join the games. I don't care if a fresh 50 joins as long as he repairs.

I'm on the AUS servers. Might be why.

I'd like hosted servers where we can set the power requirement ourselves as suggested before. It won't affect AUS servers much tho. 

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Well I will be the first to admit I am a newb, played the game 4 days now, have 2 lvl 50 chars and I did my first solo NMI run today which I was pretty happy with, before that run my chars were in like lvl 40 gear still but I managed it and now they are both in full lvl 50 purple plus a couple legendary items. Squire is set up as full defence gear/stats and Huntress is full DPS with her bow.

Now as for the topic, I got no idea about repairing walls or what ever you guys are talking about, is there a guide about NM3/4 that I can read up on?

I mainly play solo but I have discovered that I won't be able to solo it all, so I will have to join parties at some stage =(

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If you really cant find some one to play with, feel free to add me, same Steam ID. 

I usually play with my friends, but solo when none are on. Rare that you can find ppl for nm4 on public, and I think you are right, probably the population on the Asia/Aus servers are lacking.

@mokn quote:

I do searches in nm4 all the time, i host em too, normally find zero games and normally the same 5 people join the games. I don't care if a fresh 50 joins as long as he repairs.

I'm on the AUS servers. Might be why.

I'd like hosted servers where we can set the power requirement ourselves as suggested before. It won't affect AUS servers much tho. 


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@Qaz quote:

If you really cant find some one to play with, feel free to add me, same Steam ID. 

I usually play with my friends, but solo when none are on. Rare that you can find ppl for nm4 on public, and I think you are right, probably the population on the Asia/Aus servers are lacking.

I remember you dissing me and my friends before when we were looking for people to do NM4 with us before the towers got bigger. You told me I won't even be able to do NM3 with my stats and wall HP. It's funny cause I am already clearing NM4 during that time with my *** stats and half of your wall HP.

Another time was with my friend when you didn't let him join because he's not good enough for you. I remember this because this was just recent and he asked you to leave our party when you tried to join us with our NM4 betsy farming - btw, we cleared it multiple times already.

You really shouldn't tell people they can't do stuffs because they have less stats than you. Also, don't ask people to play with you if you are just going to dis them later.

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Congrats clearing NM4 then.

Don't recall you, but yup I have definitely rejected playing with people who are/were not ready for NM4. Not sure why people would feel so offended, if you aren't ready its fine, just don't expect everyone to want to carry you. 

For endgame NM4, non-incursions, extra high threat lanes make it tougher to complete with people who aren't geared. So in tavern I'm guessing we were comparing defences to see who could build, and if stats are low obviously I wouldnt be going in NM4 with what I feel is underwhelming.

Do not mistake rejecting/refusing to go into what I deem (perhaps you feel you are geared enough then hats off toya for doing it) as undergeared as dissing.

Cheers.

@taratey quote:


@Qaz quote:

If you really cant find some one to play with, feel free to add me, same Steam ID. 

I usually play with my friends, but solo when none are on. Rare that you can find ppl for nm4 on public, and I think you are right, probably the population on the Asia/Aus servers are lacking.

I remember you dissing me and my friends before when we were looking for people to do NM4 with us before the towers got bigger. You told me I won't even be able to do NM3 with my stats and wall HP. It's funny cause I am already clearing NM4 during that time with my *** stats and half of your wall HP.

Another time was with my friend when you didn't let him join because he's not good enough for you. I remember this because this was just recent and he asked you to leave our party when you tried to join us with our NM4 betsy farming - btw, we cleared it multiple times already.

You really shouldn't tell people they can't do stuffs because they have less stats than you. Also, don't ask people to play with you if you are just going to dis them later.


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I would love some type of ELO system (hidden ranking / matchmaking system)
Not only on nm4 but on nm3 and even on the new event maps. "Noobs" keep joining ur games not following ur commands beeing bad in general and just too unskilled (at that moment, no offense) for that special level.

No fun in public at all -> It takes like 20 min of joining and leaving games until u find even 1 skilled player.

Some other point is that i rarely find any builder type people. They get this game level up to 50 and join high ipwr maps to get their equipment. I'm forced 90% of all games to build everything where we get to the next problem -> Hero Deck - I can't take 4 builders + dps with me, why not? ok Monk is not needed that much but would help in some point....

Pls Trendy change ur game, it's not that enjoining at the moment ^:(

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@Qaz quote:

Congrats clearing NM4 then.

Don't recall you, but yup I have definitely rejected playing with people who are/were not ready for NM4. Not sure why people would feel so offended, if you aren't ready its fine, just don't expect everyone to want to carry you. 

The thing is, we didn't ask you to join us, you wanted to join us because we were looking for people. We were already clearing NM4 with our build and you still say we won't even be able to do NM4 just because you saw an unbuffed DPS in tooltip. Also, my walls that time were just 5k less than yours and you still say we better do NM1. This is definitely dissing. I don't make up stories, I remember this because you are popular for dissing people, not just me. Even the ones you did ipwr 1000 maps with think so too.

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I still love playing with others :d, finding nice people and chats in public games is one of the biggest part for me in dd2. Found that way alot of nice players, gobu.

@taratey quote:

You told me I won't even be able to do NM3 with my stats and wall HP. It's funny cause I am already clearing NM4 during that time with my *** stats and half of your wall HP.

Like gobu likes to say,  A wall HP isn't that important, as long as it holds a few hits and can be repaired all is fine :D. Doesn't matter if its 300k or just 60k, as long as people are devoted to repair it.

If you want taratey, you could play with me sometimes, gobu. :3 I would surely love to play with you together some times and see how you do stuff.

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Well, I've been thinking and like others have said, an iPWR requirement will mean nothing since everyone will just equip with greens and move on to the next difficulty. Maybe what would make a difference is if instead of an iPWR requirement you instead have to win 5 games on the previous difficulty to unblock the next. So win 5 NM1, then 5 NM2, then 5 NM3 to get to NM4. This would ensure a smoother learning curve and with 5 wins ensure also that you get minimally equipped.

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@Canoas quote:

Well, I've been thinking and like others have said, an iPWR requirement will mean nothing since everyone will just equip with greens and move on to the next difficulty. Maybe what would make a difference is if instead of an iPWR requirement you instead have to win 5 games on the previous difficulty to unblock the next. So win 5 NM1, then 5 NM2, then 5 NM3 to get to NM4. This would ensure a smoother learning curve and with 5 wins ensure also that you get minimally equipped.

I like this idea better than most that have been posted so far. Doing every single map in every single difficulty would make me very bored of the game but if you have a set number then you could do different maps in each difficulty and it would still be interesting on the journey to the real "END GAME" =)

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