How did people figure best setups, builds, choices etc?

First off the legacy gear needs to have the Frosty passive reduced in line with the new stuff.

How do they plan on balancing this?  Do they buff towers or nerf Frosty and traps?

@JCourtney quote:

First off the legacy gear needs to have the Frosty passive reduced in line with the new stuff.

How do they plan on balancing this?  Do they buff towers or nerf Frosty and traps?

They plan on doing a full gear wipe/reroll at full release. (my guess)

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Also, to the OP. [[118966,users]]

Some people have 500+ hours playing this game. I myself have that many hours, and have gone through many types of "meta" builds. Currently it's traps and DPS App/Huntress.

How do we figure out what the best build is? Simple.

DU Cost > DPS = Don't Use

DU Cost < DPS = Always Use

DU Cost = DPS = Maybe Use

2 Elemental Chaos or Explosive Traps cost 40 DU (2x 20 DU each)

FlameBurst Tower cost 40 DU

So if 1 Elemental Chaos is doing 2k dps and 1 Flameburst is only doing 3k dps, which is better?

The Elemental Chaos.

Why?

Find the common denominator. 40 DU = 2x Elemental Chaos = 4k DPS vs 40 DU = 1x Flameburst = 3k DPS.

And DU cost of Frosty Power also comes into play, but I wont go into it, cause this post isn't worth that much effort.

/Mathed

@vSyNd quote:

@JCourtney quote:

First off the legacy gear needs to have the Frosty passive reduced in line with the new stuff.

How do they plan on balancing this?  Do they buff towers or nerf Frosty and traps?

They plan on doing a full gear wipe/reroll at full release. (my guess)

-----------------------------------------------------

Also, to the OP. ZeaZe

Some people have 500+ hours playing this game. I myself have that many hours, and have gone through many types of "meta" builds. Currently it's traps and DPS App/Huntress.

How do we figure out what the best build is? Simple.

DU Cost > DPS = Don't Use

DU Cost < DPS = Always Use

DU Cost = DPS = Maybe Use

2 Elemental Chaos or Explosive Traps cost 40 DU (2x 20 DU each)

FlameBurst Tower cost 40 DU

So if 1 Elemental Chaos is doing 2k dps and 1 Flameburst is only doing 3k dps, which is better?

The Elemental Chaos.

Why?

Find the common denominator. 40 DU = 2x Elemental Chaos = 4k DPS vs 40 DU = 1x Flameburst = 3k DPS.

And DU cost of Frosty Power also comes into play, but I wont go into it, cause this post isn't worth that much effort.

/Mathed

Well, if it's just math they should be able to balance the other stuff or they can just start adding in mobs that wreak the trap strategy. 

@JCourtney quote:

Well, if it's just math they should be able to balance the other stuff or they can just start adding in mobs that wreak the trap strategy. 

I totally agree, balancing this game shouldn't be as hard as they are making it.

And with DD1 experience under their belt, they shouldn't be having this many issues.

thousends of innocent goblins died in the process to find the perfect build, gobu.

vSyNd

You missed one small, but important detail: traps are place-locked while Flameburst can reach anyone in it's range. That said, you calculations actually become quite a bit off. Flameburst could cover the area for both melee enemies and ranged ones, while traps cover only the area that they are placed on. So traps set up for melee enemies cannot cover jav throwers, while flameburst can cover all.

@JCourtney quote:Well, if it's just math they should be able to balance the other stuff or they can just start adding in mobs that wreak the trap strategy. 

They already do, in fact. Enemies walk around traps / auras to avoid getting hit. I failed so many times until i learned to counter that mechanic... It especially hurts when Quibly finds a TINY TINY spot where your traps do not hit and snipes your defenses...

@Seph quote:

@JCourtney quote:Well, if it's just math they should be able to balance the other stuff or they can just start adding in mobs that wreak the trap strategy. 

They already do, in fact. Enemies walk around traps / auras to avoid getting hit. I failed so many times until i learned to counter that mechanic... It especially hurts when Quibly finds a TINY TINY spot where your traps do not hit and snipes your defenses...

That's awesome.   I wonder what they have planned for that Wave Director AI they had mentioned.

@Seph quote:

vSyNd

You missed one small, but important detail: traps are place-locked while Flameburst can reach anyone in it's range. That said, you calculations actually become quite a bit off. Flameburst could cover the area for both melee enemies and ranged ones, while traps cover only the area that they are placed on. So traps set up for melee enemies cannot cover jav throwers, while flameburst can cover all.

I'm not going to get into this with you. Just know I've done the math, and I have included the factors.

@vSyNd quote:

@JCourtney quote:

First off the legacy gear needs to have the Frosty passive reduced in line with the new stuff.

How do they plan on balancing this?  Do they buff towers or nerf Frosty and traps?

They plan on doing a full gear wipe/reroll at full release. (my guess)

They are going to manually delete or re roll the frosty power gear. 

Full gear wipe or re roll I don't see coming. It's free to play. If they wipe the gear in six months. They can say bye bye to the majority of their player base. 

Unless it is another remake of their gear system.

They can easily make all current gear less desired if they increase the max iPWR. Which will happen, but it is not something they should do too often. 

The only game breaking gear I know of at the moment is the frosty power ones. No need to do a re roll or wipe of all gear to make that problem go away. 

@vSyNd quote:

@JCourtney quote:

Well, if it's just math they should be able to balance the other stuff or they can just start adding in mobs that wreak the trap strategy. 

I totally agree, balancing this game shouldn't be as hard as they are making it.

And with DD1 experience under their belt, they shouldn't be having this many issues.

You can make traps and towers 100% equal in theory DPS, but that does not apply because of over kills, bad targeting and towers actually taking damage. 

It's not just look at numbers and then tweak it.. 

@vSyNd quote:

@JCourtney quote:

Well, if it's just math they should be able to balance the other stuff or they can just start adding in mobs that wreak the trap strategy. 

I totally agree, balancing this game shouldn't be as hard as they are making it.

And with DD1 experience under their belt, they shouldn't be having this many issues.

You can make traps and towers 100% equal in theory DPS, but that does not apply because of over kills, bad targeting and towers actually taking damage. 

It's not just look at numbers and then tweak it.. 

@vSyNd quote:

@JCourtney quote:

Well, if it's just math they should be able to balance the other stuff or they can just start adding in mobs that wreak the trap strategy. 

I totally agree, balancing this game shouldn't be as hard as they are making it.

And with DD1 experience under their belt, they shouldn't be having this many issues.

You can make traps and towers 100% equal in theory DPS, but that does not apply because of over kills, bad targeting and towers actually taking damage. 

It's not just look at numbers and then tweak it.. 

I don't think DD1 experience really helps them here.  DD1 didn't really have item builds.

I have quite good result with the upped Earthshaker tower (+ bonus range)

Cannon Ball then finish tough stuff (like Boar/Orc)

It's also less tedious (less Tower -> quicker build)

Am I somehow mistaken ? 

@Talis Cat quote:

I have quite good result with the upped Earthshaker tower (+ bonus range)

Cannon Ball then finish tough stuff (like Boar/Orc)

It's also less tedious (less Tower -> quicker build)

Am I somehow mistaken ? 

that totally depends on what difficulty you're doing this at. In freeplay, sure, pretty much any strategy is viable as long as you try. but later it becomes harder and harder to succeed with non-meta strategies.

@DrumMajor012210 quote:

@Talis Cat quote:

I have quite good result with the upped Earthshaker tower (+ bonus range)

Cannon Ball then finish tough stuff (like Boar/Orc)

It's also less tedious (less Tower -> quicker build)

Am I somehow mistaken ? 

that totally depends on what difficulty you're doing this at. In freeplay, sure, pretty much any strategy is viable as long as you try. but later it becomes harder and harder to succeed with non-meta strategies.

NM1, starting NM2. IPwr for App is 320ish. I use an hybrid Wall/Canon Suqire (leaning toward Def Power over Health)

In fact i didn't notice the Res were upped. So I gather I could get better result if I try some Huntress/Squire build on Mag resist lane.

Earthshaker recent boost mean I could put it again in my build. With extra range he can spawn kill in a lot of case.

Another thing I never saw mentionned is Mana cost. It usually means the flame Tower will be one level above the traps.

It's not a HUGE difference but it should be factored in ...

Also I never found Traps did well against Boss. Managing Boss + Main lane (if they are not on the same, of course) when soloing can be hard.

@Gunghoe quote:

@jason4570 quote:

2 words... maybe four.  Frosty Power... relic Frosty power gear.

Frosty power: Gives a % DP bonus to things that are in the effect.  Traps can be in the effect without being targeted, thus not destroyed.  The max Frosty power that most people can get now is 50%... 10% on each gear piece that has the buff.

Old school players... have some relic Frosty power items (for example I have one piece with a 32% increase)... thus they can get huge bonuses to traps hitting targets.  I have heard of people have 100% and higher percentages.

People mimic what they see and that is effective, thus why you see a lot of others trying it.

My opinion, YMMV.

Those weapons that give more than 10% need to be wiped from the game IMO... I haven't seen a piece of gear drop greater than 9% 

Yeh some people have 2.5x more damage than you can currently get because of their 40% per item frost power gear, I don't know who has the highest but i've seen 180%. They are trying to get rid of it said the dev. I'm really questioning their programmer, i don't think he's very good. Do you notice this game has the same bugs as the first? Does he not learn and study more.

Put a cap on frost power per item 10%, cap it 0% for relic and weapon, problem solved. Seen other games do it for all sorts of stats.

I play a lot of alpha's and this one is progressing the slowest i've seen not including disbanded ones.

@PandynatorDD quote:

@vSyNd quote:

@JCourtney quote:

First off the legacy gear needs to have the Frosty passive reduced in line with the new stuff.

How do they plan on balancing this?  Do they buff towers or nerf Frosty and traps?

They plan on doing a full gear wipe/reroll at full release. (my guess)

They are going to manually delete or re roll the frosty power gear. 

Full gear wipe or re roll I don't see coming. It's free to play. If they wipe the gear in six months. They can say bye bye to the majority of their player base. 

Unless it is another remake of their gear system.

They can easily make all current gear less desired if they increase the max iPWR. Which will happen, but it is not something they should do too often. 

The only game breaking gear I know of at the moment is the frosty power ones. No need to do a re roll or wipe of all gear to make that problem go away. 

Their plan is to manually delete it? This programmers are worse than i thought. 

Yeh of course, people would quit in droves, i wouldn't accept another wipe.

I have speedy harpoon on armor. I don't think you can get it anymore on armor?

When it comes to "Legacy" gear, TE plans to do a targeted re-rolls for those items. Meaning, this will be a manual case-by-case re-roll.

Or would you rather have another global item re-roll just to fix those passives for those 20 people out there? [[8310,users]]

Aren't we over exaggerating the legacy frosty problem. All legacy gear is 240 IPWR as it would have gone through the IPWR reduction reroll. So you'll struggle to get to 2000 dp even if they all rerolled dp.