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Fraxxion

Fix the bloody walls

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Been trying to beat nm4 liferoot for a few days now, try [[7661,hashtags]] get to wave 7 solo, usually don't get past wave 6 even on 4 player...

Had everything in the bag, 2 of the 3 ogres down, about 80 enemies left...

AND THE OGRE FREAKING WALKS OVER MY BLOODY WALL AND OHKO BUTTSTOMPS THE BLOODY CRYSTAL


/endrant

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I get the bug every 2nd game. It should be their top priority. Instead they just make cosmetics all day. This bug has been around for over a month.

I changed my review to negative as this bug shows they don't care.

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@mokn quote:

I get the bug every 2nd game. It should be their top priority. Instead they just make cosmetics all day. This bug has been around for over a month.

The guys making cosmetics don't have the skills to fix this sort of bug.  Would you ask an interior decorator to fix a problem with your car's engine?

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Yeah that is such a sad bug. Even double walls doesn't protect you always. Had some bosses which walked about both ^^.

Many nice runs ended in nm4 (solo play with just earth towers, cannons, flamethrower, ballistas) just because a boss walked over the barricades :_(

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You know, bug patches usually come when most, if not all bugs people find, have been squashed.

They don't just fix a bug and implement a hotfix to the server and keep doing that hundreds of times..

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@yummysinsemilla quote:

You know, bug patches usually come when most, if not all bugs people find, have been squashed.

They don't just fix a bug and implement a hotfix to the server and keep doing that hundreds of times..

Which i completely and fully understand, this has been a thing for a while now however and as far as i know we have not gotten any answer about this from trendy, this =/= mob leaking, this is straight up walking over walls, not around them or through gaps, just over them

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@yummysinsemilla quote:

You know, bug patches usually come when most, if not all bugs people find, have been squashed.

They don't just fix a bug and implement a hotfix to the server and keep doing that hundreds of times..



@Fraxxion quote:


@yummysinsemilla quote:

You know, bug patches usually come when most, if not all bugs people find, have been squashed.

They don't just fix a bug and implement a hotfix to the server and keep doing that hundreds of times..

Which i completely and fully understand, this has been a thing for a while now however and as far as i know we have not gotten any answer about this from trendy, this =/= mob leaking, this is straight up walking over walls, not around them or through gaps, just over them

I hate to be "that guy" but you two do realize this is still an ALPHA game. 

Especially @yummysinsemilla changing your review to negative because you found a bug in alpha game that hasn't been fixed in a while is not indicative that they do not care about the game; it shows that it's an alpha game with a nasty bug that (willing to bet on this) they are working on.


Upadated: Just looked at the Known Issues thread.  They are working on it. Also I suggest looking at the Known Issues thread in Customer Support and Bug Reports forum, also should report the bugs there, not general discussion.


  • Enemies are pathing around barricades even though they shouldn't. (13043)

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I personally do not have this problem. The last time i had the ogre walk OVER my Barricades was... Before Ascension I patch.

So that leads me to think that you are doing something wrong...

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@Seph quote:

I personally do not have this problem. The last time i had the ogre walk OVER my Barricades was... Before Ascension I patch.

So that leads me to think that you are doing something wrong...

The 'ogres (or skels) walking over the wall' thing still happens to defenses that can't kill them quickly. I think that's the case for him.

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[[95168,users]]

As far as i remember, Ogres walk over Barricades only then, when there is a crowd in front of it and Ogre uses goblins as tiny obstacles and walk over them, making a Barricade that "small obstacle" to climb over. I am not sure, i could be wrong, too.

Another case could be that all enemies are considered "equal" (not in spacing, but in importance, or... well, basically, "pushing power") and pushes each other out of the way / forward. the 500 small goblins (or Orcs) behind that one Ogre pushes the ore over.

I hope i put it clearly enough for people to understand what i mean >_> in any case, if you can't kill orcs, warboars, etc. fast enough, they pile up and make a crowd which results in enemies pushing one another over Barricades. When i could finally kill enemies fast enough to prevent a crowd, i stopped experiencing this issue.

Sometimes one Ogre pushes another Ogre over. But with larger towers, this one was kind of fixed, i suppose...I had 2 Ogres in a lane and not one of them climbed over.

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I believe the problem lies with the wall just as much as with aggro, i've had countless ogres completely ignore the walls and have had them just constantly running in place as if the wall is not there. apparently they can every once in a while make it over

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@SalaamNope quote:

I hate to be "that guy" but you two do realize this is still an ALPHA game. 

Especially @yummysinsemilla changing your review to negative because you found a bug in alpha game that hasn't been fixed in a while is not indicative that they do not care about the game; it shows that it's an alpha game with a nasty bug that (willing to bet on this) they are working on.


Upadated: Just looked at the Known Issues thread.  They are working on it. Also I suggest looking at the Known Issues thread in Customer Support and Bug Reports forum, also should report the bugs there, not general discussion.


  • Enemies are pathing around barricades even though they shouldn't. (13043)

I wasn't complaining about it.  I was simply stating to someone who was, that bug fixes don't come out one at a time.  Most developers will fix a lot of bugs and release a new build.

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@Seph quote:

I personally do not have this problem. The last time i had the ogre walk OVER my Barricades was... Before Ascension I patch.

So that leads me to think that you are doing something wrong...

It is possible that I am also doing something wrong too of course but I am still seeing it. Often, for me, if there are two Ogres at the wall and the lead Ogre gets pushed over. Happeneed last night as I ran a pub NM4 Life root.

I have also seen Lady Orcs walk around my wall. Actually moved to the side around it (twice only in total - but that was a depressing day).

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If i remember correctly, Trendy said on the devstream that this issue was based in the fact that they don't really have a physics engine for DD2, so sometimes mobs behave in weird ways. They've been trying to fix it for a while, but things aren't always easy fixes.

As for mobs ignoring barricades, it seems the core has priority over the barricade aggro. I've started putting my barricades a bit farther out, and that has helped the issue some.

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@mkjo quote:It is possible that I am also doing something wrong too of course but I am still seeing it. Often, for me, if there are two Ogres at the wall and the lead Ogre gets pushed over.

Yeah that one is true: when two Ogres are at the wall, they interact in a super weird way and has me all sweaty and worried about one getting pushed over... Happens to me as well, but rarely.

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listen to sweet, this is about a good a fix as you can get right now, till they figure out exactly why/how they are body surfing. I have noticed if you do a push/knockback to the ogre at the barricade, it tends to make them want to do it more

@Sweetwarlock quote:

If i remember correctly, Trendy said on the devstream that this issue was based in the fact that they don't really have a physics engine for DD2, so sometimes mobs behave in weird ways. They've been trying to fix it for a while, but things aren't always easy fixes.

As for mobs ignoring barricades, it seems the core has priority over the barricade aggro. I've started putting my barricades a bit farther out, and that has helped the issue some.


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This probably sounds ridiculous but..
Seeing as they cant fix the monsters behavior how about making walls use the Squire taunt ability? ;x


no idea if thats possible or makes any sense, but if walls spammed that, nothing would dare walk past and they'd never walk over, it would just be a bandaid instead of a fix though.

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For what it's worth, we've talked about this issue a few times, and it certainly isn't easy to fix. We actually just discussed trying to get this into our next milestone, because this isn't as much of a bug fix as it is a major set of work inside of two features. Mostly, that's because this is (at least) 2 different bugs.

Bug one has to do with physics, or lack there of. We don't have a real physics engine in DD2 (loooong story), so enemies make a pretty basic check on if they can traverse over a surface or not, usually based on a number of factors. Some barricades, especially when placed on slops, are sometimes viewed as surfaces slopped gently enough to walk over. This is one bug that can change how EVERY enemy traverses EVERY surface, so it can get a little complicated.


The second bug involves our AI. We've already done some quick tests to confirm that the AI doesn't always behave the way we've designed it. This includes sometimes outright ignoring towers that attack, or walking right past barricades in certain situations. This also is a pretty complex change, because there are a number of use cases we've seen act strangely, and we have to analyze and make the correct fixes so the AI works correctly, doesn't break in new ways, and doesn't become excessively expensive and destroy performance on the server. Again, this change would impact ALL enemies in ALL scenarios, so it's a much more time intense task.

For both of these bugs, we did try a few quick fixes, some which had no impact, and some which broke the game in tragic ways. This IS on our schedule to fix, and we're hoping to fit into a milestone very soon as we know how negative this experience can be. 

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@mkjo quote:
Watch out. This is how Terminator I started

You'r saying that like it's a bad thing. Suddenly having a balista wielding half ogre half machine spawn in a lane would be awesome!


That being said, i've found that tweeking the barricade placement tend to stop mobs from bypassing them. Some barricades i used to put in the middle of the path ended up getting bypassed every now and then, so i started placing them a bit to the side and a bit forward. That seems to have stopped it for some reason, despite there being more room for walking past it than ever before.

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