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Oevaag

Headless Horseman Pet.

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Oh, I get what you're saying now.  The fact that you can't just immediately buy a hundred creeper premium eggs because you have to farm those eggs first doesn't make it p2w.  


Eh, I'll have to respectfully disagree here.  That's a pretty moot point, imo.  Still need to sink a lot of money into getting a reasonable shot at a legendary.  I'd love to hear some data from a dev on % rolls for premium pets and then we can get the average $ cost associated with a legendary premium pet.  

Obviously that wont happen though, because people would literally be up in arms lol 


My 2 cents on it is that gambling mechanics in f2p games are always p2w.  And it's a really gross way of generating money just by the nature of gambling

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@Pachipachio quote:

Eh, I'll have to respectfully disagree here.  That's a pretty moot point, imo.  Still need to sink a lot of money into getting a reasonable shot at a legendary.  I'd love to hear some data from a dev on % rolls for premium pets and then we can get the average $ cost associated with a legendary premium pet.

I don't think being premium increases the chances of getting a legendary, nor makes the pet any better if it does happen to roll legendary.  It should be just about the appearance.  Neither of us has the data to prove it one way or another though.

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Missed the point.  I didn't imply it's easier to roll legendary if premium.  Because it's not guaranteed there is some % to roll it which means we can have an average # of purchases required to obtain a premium legendary.  That number would likely make most people's heads spin  


It's still gambling with money.  Gambling mechanics are dirty enough and should warrant condemnation, but worse - imo - is gambling mechanics in a game that's catered to younger audiences 

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@Pachipachio quote:

Missed the point.  I didn't imply it's easier to roll legendary if premium.  Because it's not guaranteed there is some % to roll it which means we can have an average # of purchases required to obtain a premium legendary.  That number would likely make most people's heads spin  

It's still gambling with money.  Gambling mechanics are dirty enough and should warrant condemnation, but worse - imo - is gambling mechanics in a game that's catered to younger audiences 

Okay, so are we in agreement that since paying for a premium pet doesn't increase the chances of it being legendary and doesn't make it otherwise better, it doesn't constitute pay-to-win as far as character advancement is concerned?

I concur that gambling with real money is questionable.  I'm not touching premium pets until there's some known maximum cost for getting a legendary.

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@tdb quote:


@Pachipachio quote:

Missed the point.  I didn't imply it's easier to roll legendary if premium.  Because it's not guaranteed there is some % to roll it which means we can have an average # of purchases required to obtain a premium legendary.  That number would likely make most people's heads spin  

It's still gambling with money.  Gambling mechanics are dirty enough and should warrant condemnation, but worse - imo - is gambling mechanics in a game that's catered to younger audiences 

Okay, so are we in agreement that since paying for a premium pet doesn't increase the chances of it being legendary and doesn't make it otherwise better, it doesn't constitute pay-to-win as far as character advancement is concerned?

I concur that gambling with real money is questionable.  I'm not touching premium pets until there's some known maximum cost for getting a legendary.

Uh, not really in agreement here on that point.  There is no creeper legendary and I have no idea the #s behind base attack damage/cooldown and attack scaling.  Nor do I have any data on the premium pet abilities.  Can't say what it does for character progression 

I can say, for certain, that it isn't a big deal one way or another.  The difference between a 60/60 legendary and 60/60 green is pretty minimal in the grand scheme of things.  


Personally, my biggest gripe with pets is very similar to yours.  Might as well be in agreement there.   I really don't like real life money gambling systems.  This one in particular doesn't even offer much of an improvement for rolling perfectly (like I said, legendary DPS increase over powerful might be 100% but even then a max a leveled pet isn't breaking 6k DPS) which makes it worse in my book.  Not to mention a good portion of the audience is going to be <21 yr old players.  How many dollars will be earned because people are basically fooled into tossing a couple bucks out for an orange name/border.  How many people will think a powerful pet has less empower stats than a legendary?  Yeah, it was covered in a dev stream a long time ago and several times since then on forums but every week there are threads dedicated to the misconceptions people have about pets


It's just ugly, in my opinion

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@Pachipachio quote:

Uh, not really in agreement here on that point.  There is no creeper legendary and I have no idea the #s behind base attack damage/cooldown and attack scaling.  Nor do I have any data on the premium pet abilities.  Can't say what it does for character progression 

Yeah, the missing legendary creeper does give premium pets a slight advantage at the moment.  But Trendy will probably add a legendary sooner or later (there's only one recolored creeper compared to three recolored dragons), and when they do that advantage will go away.

I'd suppose all pets of the same quality will do approximately the same dps (when perfectly rolled).  I'll see if I can gather some statistics from my existing legendary pets later today.

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it's a shame both of you did not notice that i paid for the game too. So it's the choice that we both made to be correct.

@A_Very_Grumpy_Cat quote:


@MR.IZENHYME quote:


@Underlander quote:

btw: i got 3 horseman, all 3 are mythical. i was pretty pissed none of them is a legendary. then i came here and saw people got epics... it sucks to spend money to buy a piece of trash.

it's the choice you made.

Sorry for supporting the game!


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The new "Grace Danger Costume Pack" is an effrontery.

I know the game is "free2play" at the moment, but all gamer from beginning still pay for the Game (+some Gems).

But 23€ ???? - maybe Trendy has a pack with Gems and without,... I pay for Collectors Pack 46€ and now 23€ for this pack....

I know this pack is voluntarily, but no one pay for a fullgame 60€++ (and this pack isn't the last one) :(

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@Pachipachio quote:

evoking p2w here has always been strange to me

Isn't it still p2w even if it's random?  It's just pay a lot to win.  

I mean, going by the above.... not everyone has the ability to purchase enough gems to reliably get a legendary premium pet.   What's worse is if someone DOES spend a lot and end up with 0 legendaries anyway


^ +this

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Can anyone confirm that rarity has absolutely no difference concerning stats? I've seen some earlier statements but would love to know for sure.  Some of the lower rarity pets for example look awesome in my opinion.

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@Agronic quote:

Can anyone confirm that rarity has absolutely no difference concerning stats? I've seen some earlier statements but would love to know for sure.  Some of the lower rarity pets for example look awesome in my opinion.

My first was Epic with pet damage of 666, my 2nd with the skelly pack was Mythic with pet damage of 1300ish. Same attack rate. It doesn't bother me, though. Also the level of sass in this thread is too damn high. 

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@Mythra quote:

This is exactly why I would never buy a Premium Pet.  It's a gamble, and an expensive one, at that.


Trendy needs to re-think how Premium Pets are implemented.


I think a good solution would be to sell Premium Pet Skins that you can apply to existing pets.  e.g.  I purchase a Headless Horseman skin, and apply it to my existing Legendary Hoardragon to convert it to a Legendary Headless Horseman. Pay-to-Win Issue resolved, and player's get what they want, and Trend still makes money.


I've had the same exact feelings about the premium pets. 

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@HawkvsAvril quote:

But 23€ ???? - maybe Trendy has a pack with Gems and without,... I pay for Collectors Pack 46€ and now 23€ for this pack.... 

If you bought the collector's edition, you should have more than enough gems to buy all of the costumes and the pet included on the grave danger pack.

I know this pack is voluntarily, but no one pay for a fullgame 60€++ (and this pack isn't the last one) :(

Blizzard sells individual pets for World of Warcraft for $10 each and mounts for $25 each.  By my count there's $405 worth of premium cosmetic items for sale, though you can save a total of $10 if you get the bundles.  DD2 still has a long way to go.

SW:TOR has charged $20 for a black dye module, which has been available for a limited time on a few different occasions.  For those that don't know the game, a dye-module is a single-use item with which you can recolor your outfit.  How's that sound?

DD2's costumes may not be quite as cheap as DD1's, but I think they're still entirely reasonable.

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@Agronic quote:

Can anyone confirm that rarity has absolutely no difference concerning stats? I've seen some earlier statements but would love to know for sure.  Some of the lower rarity pets for example look awesome in my opinion.

empowerment stats dont seem to differ with rarity, damage does though (its hard to compare different attack patterns with each other, but higher rarity premium pets do more damage than lower rarity versions)... honestly though; pet damage does almost nothing compared to hero/tower/ability damage... so you wont lose much if going for a pet you like (i use a fairy creepermother on my asgardian wall squire, because it fits well with the costume and is a creeper; having potential curse aura... though i only have a hex one at the moment)

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Higher rarity versions of pets do more damage. As in Premiums have better AD and AR the higher their rarity. Pets as an overall aren't equal though. Some do bugger all damage even if they're higher rarity.

Frankly they all do bugger all damage mind, the highest I've calculated is 3000 DPS.


Edit: Empowerement Stats are always identical though, with a theoretical maximum of 345.

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@Agronic quote:

Can anyone confirm that rarity has absolutely no difference concerning stats? I've seen some earlier statements but would love to know for sure.  Some of the lower rarity pets for example look awesome in my opinion.

For Empowerment stats there is 0 difference. But when it comes to their attack stats I haven't been able to establish a solid conclusion. Here's what I got from looking at the re-roll ranges for a pet of each rarity type.:

Green/Powerful - Voodu - 107 to 240

Blue/Epic - Bitterwick - 61 to 213

Pink/Mythical - Green Eyes - 151 to 191

Orange/Legendary  - Serpentagon -  216 to 276.

To me anyway, it looks like those values are more tied to either the pet's race/type OR the number of projectiles they have. I can't do any research on whether or not there's a difference in evolution scaling between the rarities. But from what I've been able to gather (as a low level noob with a small pool of resources to test this on) there doesn't seem to be a difference.

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@Pachipachio quote:

evoking p2w here has always been strange to me

Isn't it still p2w even if it's random?  It's just pay a lot to win.  

I mean, going by the above.... not everyone has the ability to purchase enough gems to reliably get a legendary premium pet.   What's worse is if someone DOES spend a lot and end up with 0 legendaries anyway



If they spend a lot and get 0 legendaries they can just pay more and it'll eventually pop, Pay to win is irrelevant on how much a person spends, it's the ability to pay to win, instead of playing the game they can just drop some cash and viola. 

I still prefer the idea of a premium pet being a clone of an original pet with a unique skin / animations instead of original pets, I hate the idea of gaining potential game changing items (ability may be useful in certain circumstances) from beyond normal gameplay. What next? Character skins with different abilities?

Edit: I feel bad that I rolled a legendary kobold.png

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Like I said above I ended up with two as I bought one before the skele pack was announced which I also ended up buying.

I care less about the fact that neither rolled legendary. What bothers me is that neither of them ended up with the Horseman pet special unique ability. If I pay money I honestly expect it to at least have the promoted unique ability. But then again, it's a gamble, but the gamble should be on rarity, not it's ability. I wish there was just a way to reroll pet abilities. 

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@Underlander quote:

btw: i got 3 horseman, all 3 are mythical. i was pretty pissed none of them is a legendary. then i came here and saw people got epics... it sucks to spend money to buy a piece of trash.

How could you get 3 of them?
Can you explain please?

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It's BS that the pet doesn't automatically come with the special ability that has it's own animation.  When you buy the pet in-game no where does it say that it's a chance.  It acts like this is what you get when you buy.  

Just increase the cost of the pet if that is what you're going to do.  I know the math on playing slot machines... you never win.  

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First ... This game is Free to Play so - people they give money out  helps that the Server will run a long time.

So Btt: I think the best deal would be make it like Wildstar. There is the Option to get Cashshop things ingame it just takes longer and for the ppl who have the money to buy it. For my self i see no problem that Pets you buy over DLC things are direct legendary because : the only difference on this Pet's is the Style and not what they are do... because everything else is random and can be changed. 

So if someone dont have money, he can play the game get the egg, and roll it so long he has a legendary, but we people they bought it should get something for it. 

My one was Epic.

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@GekzOverlord quote:

pFpff70.png

That's my horseman, I think I got lucky, I also think the stats are vastly wrong or im just very lucky (it started at around 2k ED)

Nah, that's right, it's AR only allows it to attack every other second and it only hits once per attack. Yours should have a DPS of 1543.8 .

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