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the monthly special skeleton bosses.


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Onslaughter seems to be right on that. On the other hand just start one map and play to the second boss wave (not second wave) there you will find 2 random bosses, and they can be skelletons.

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I don't understand the "logic" behind making the number as high as with ogres. Ogres are the frequent mini boss on many maps (like crossroads, which is guaranteed to have 3 ogres on the last wave), so they aren't all that hard to find, plus onslaught is chock-full of them.

But hulks? Seriously? I mean, SERIOUSLY? The type of mini boss, that isn't guaranteed to be found anywhere at all? I spent around 3 hours in end game maps today and got 2 hulks. Wow. /sarcasm. Did you guys even do the math before coming up with the idea for this monthly?

My experience and all of the posts above tell me, that I would have to spend at least a few hours in DD2 everyday for an entire month just to farm the hulks - yeah, that's not gonna happen.  I'm not willing to sink that much time into this game again, when I have only nm4 left to conquer, and as we all know, progress into that is pretty much blocked.

Conclusion - me and most of my steam friends aren't planning on doing the monthly. Good luck to anyone who is planning to try it, may RNGesus have mercy on your souls.

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Yeah this months quest sucks, i have already given up.


It should not be called a quest, but rather a marathon of luck.

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[[82743,users]] Yeah, one can hope. It will no doubt be something that turns ogres into skeleton bosses.

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There are several HUGE flaws to the skeleton task:

  • Purely RNG based: there's no way to guarantee a skeleton to spawn
  • Bar is set ridiculously high: Given that we have Griblok, Quibly, Tuskar, Malthius, and Plaguing Hulk as our most common specials, that means in order to accomplish our monthly quest we must encounter almost 400 special enemies this month.
  • No overlap with the incursion task: Guess how many incursions have skeleton specials spawn? You guessed it - zero.

That means for this month we must not only complete 25 incursions, but we must also separately encounter 375 special enemies to get the 75 skeleton specials. That means we must encounter 12 special enemies a day and on top of that do an incursion a day separately. We are looking at close to a MINIMUM of 3 hours a day, every day, without any breaks.

I hope you guys weren't planning on having a life outside of DD2 and getting this month's pet, because at this point they're pretty much mutually exclusive.

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@Pachipachio quote:

Anyone else predict some kind of halloween event involving the skeleton bosses? 

I really hope this is going to happen, because that's probably the best way to redeem the ridiculously huge requirement for this task.

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@gigazelle quote:

There are several HUGE flaws to the skeleton task:

  • Purely RNG based: there's no way to guarantee a skeleton to spawn
  • Bar is set ridiculously high: Given that we have Griblok, Quibly, Tuskar, Malthius, and Plaguing Hulk as our most common specials, that means in order to accomplish our monthly quest we must encounter almost 400 special enemies this month.
  • No overlap with the incursion task: Guess how many incursions have skeleton specials spawn? You guessed it - zero.

That means for this month we must not only complete 25 incursions, but we must also separately encounter 375 special enemies to get the 75 skeleton specials. That means we must encounter 12 special enemies a day and on top of that do an incursion a day separately. We are looking at close to a MINIMUM of 3 hours a day, every day, without any breaks.

I hope you guys weren't planning on having a life outside of DD2 and getting this month's pet, because at this point they're pretty much mutually exclusive.

Your enumeration of special enemies lacks Slekeleon, unless you specifically wanted to exclude him from the "most common" ones. Personally i encounter him as often as the others. My take on this whole topic:


Assumptions: (in my opinion all of these are somewhat reasonable)

  • Equal distribution of special enemies. (That is a 1 in a 3 chance of hitting a special that counts towards the monthly)
  • Four (4) special enemies per standard endgame map on nightmare x difficulty.
  • 15 minute completion time of aforementioned endgame map of your choice.
  • 15 minute completion time for an incursion map of your choice.


Calculus:

  • 4 * (1/3) = 4/3 ~= 1.33 special enemies on average towards the quest per map.
  • 75 / (4/3) = 56.25 maps to kill 75 special enemies that count on average.
  • 56.25 * 15 = 843.75 [minutes] ~= 14 [hours] to complete this part of the quest on average.
  • 15 * 25 = 375 [minutes] = 6.25 [hours] to complete the incursion part of the quest.

Results:

Based on above assumptions it should take approximately 20 hours to complete this monthly quest. Make it 30 and its still only averaging 1 hour of time played per day. Some thoughts on the RNG: The worst case makes you hit 0 specials compared to 1.33, whereas a positive RNG can make you hit more than 2.66 (up to 4) specials per map, which results in a shorter total completion time on average when factoring in RNG. Is it possible to have terrible RNG on this? Absolutely. Whats the likelihood on a size of 75 entities? Close to zero. (Math/proof omitted)


Feel free to comment/share your thoughts (or point out mistakes). :)


Regards, 

 Kirtar

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We are being a bit glass half empty but the random aspect is highly frustrating and you forgot the worst miniboss Explodinator which as well as taking up a slot NEVER drops anything.

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@Kirtar quote:

Assumptions: (in my opinion all of these are somewhat reasonable)

  • Equal distribution of special enemies. (That is a 1 in a 3 chance of hitting a special that counts towards the monthly)
  • Four (4) special enemies per standard endgame map on nightmare x difficulty.
  • 15 minute completion time of aforementioned endgame map of your choice.
  • 15 minute completion time for an incursion map of your choice.


Calculus:

  • 4 * (1/3) = 4/3 ~= 1.33 special enemies on average towards the quest per map.
  • 75 / (4/3) = 56.25 maps to kill 75 special enemies that count on average.
  • 56.25 * 15 = 843.75 [minutes] ~= 14 [hours] to complete this part of the quest on average.
  • 15 * 25 = 375 [minutes] = 6.25 [hours] to complete the incursion part of the quest.

Results:

Based on above assumptions it should take approximately 20 hours to complete this monthly quest. Make it 30 and its still only averaging 1 hour of time played per day. Some thoughts on the RNG: The worst case makes you hit 0 specials compared to 1.33, whereas a positive RNG can make you hit more than 2.66 (up to 4) specials per map, which results in a shorter total completion time on average when factoring in RNG. Is it possible to have terrible RNG on this? Absolutely. Whats the likelihood on a size of 75 entities? Close to zero. (Math/proof omitted)


Feel free to comment/share your thoughts (or point out mistakes). :)


Regards, 

 Kirtar

Funny, after nearly 20 maps i got only 3 skelly kills...

So around 1 kill per 6 maps, with rough maths I should clear that thing after 450 maps x 15 min like you said for a super duper total of... 112.5 hours just for the skelly boss... YAY ME!

This monthly is stupid, I'l never say it enough times.

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@gigazelle quote:


  • No overlap with the incursion task: Guess how many incursions have skeleton specials spawn? You guessed it - zero.


@gigazelle quote:

There are several HUGE flaws to the skeleton task:


  • No overlap with the incursion task: Guess how many incursions have skeleton specials spawn? You guessed it - zero.


This is the fail IMO. The inability to dedicate your monthly event farming time efficiently. 25 incursions giving, say 25 skeletons would have ben a solid start

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Couple things:

  • Explodinator and Slekeleon were not factored in, since they do not spawn during onslaught. However based on the numbers you've presented, End Game seems like the best playlist to choose from.
  • Just timed myself going through End game Normal. Taking gear sorting and reasonable 30-60 second build phases into consideration, it took right around 22 minutes. I know much faster is possible, but I tried my best to simulate the time it would take for an average player to complete 7 waves and sell the loot afterwards. All non-incursion end game maps are 7 waves.
  • During my run I encountered two special enemies; one on wave 3 and one on wave 5. Wave 7 was an ogre. I have not tested how special enemies scale with the number of players. If anyone has this data, I think it would be quite valuable to this thread. If more specials spawn during 4-player co op and everyone gets credit for killing each skeleton special, that can potentially make things go by much faster.
  • Out of the pool of 7 specials, 2 count towards the monthly, meaning that ultimately we will encounter about 270 special enemies by constantly playing end game maps over and over again.
  • If 2 specials per mission is consistent, That means we get to play 135 End Game maps, which at 20 minutes a pop roughly equates to 45 hours for just the skeleton task alone. I'd expect that's plenty of time to pick up 75 legendaries, but as mentioned above the skeleton task and incursion task are 100% mutually exclusive.

That's certainly better than 3 hours a day, but 45 hours of farming end game maps just for skeleton specials is still pretty lofty. Last month's pet affection could be easily achieved in under 15 hours by hammering free play easy, and you could level up alts while you were at it. If the community put up that much of a stink for pet affection levels, I can only imagine what it's going to be like for skeleton specials.

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@gigazelle quote:
  • Just timed myself going through End game Normal. Taking gear sorting and reasonable 30-60 second build phases into consideration, it took right around 22 minutes. I know much faster is possible, but I tried my best to simulate the time it would take for an average player to complete 7 waves and sell the loot afterwards. All non-incursion end game maps are 7 waves.
  • During my run I encountered two special enemies; one on wave 3 and one on wave 5. Wave 7 was an ogre. I have not tested how special enemies scale with the number of players. If anyone has this data, I think it would be quite valuable to this thread. If more specials spawn during 4-player co op and everyone gets credit for killing each skeleton special, that can potentially make things go by much faster.

As far as i know and have experienced: When doing difficulties of nightmare 1 or higher you're guaranteed 4 special enemies per map instead of your mentioned 2, pretty much halving your needed investment there. Unless of course we want to agree that an average player has no access to consistent (and fast) clears of nightmare 1 maps.


Also as far as i know a higher number of players has no impact on the total amount of special enemies (or even regular enemies), but on their level.

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@Some random guy quote:


@Kirtar quote:

Assumptions: (in my opinion all of these are somewhat reasonable)

  • Equal distribution of special enemies. (That is a 1 in a 3 chance of hitting a special that counts towards the monthly)
  • Four (4) special enemies per standard endgame map on nightmare x difficulty.
  • 15 minute completion time of aforementioned endgame map of your choice.
  • 15 minute completion time for an incursion map of your choice.


Calculus:

  • 4 * (1/3) = 4/3 ~= 1.33 special enemies on average towards the quest per map.
  • 75 / (4/3) = 56.25 maps to kill 75 special enemies that count on average.
  • 56.25 * 15 = 843.75 [minutes] ~= 14 [hours] to complete this part of the quest on average.
  • 15 * 25 = 375 [minutes] = 6.25 [hours] to complete the incursion part of the quest.

Results:

Based on above assumptions it should take approximately 20 hours to complete this monthly quest. Make it 30 and its still only averaging 1 hour of time played per day. Some thoughts on the RNG: The worst case makes you hit 0 specials compared to 1.33, whereas a positive RNG can make you hit more than 2.66 (up to 4) specials per map, which results in a shorter total completion time on average when factoring in RNG. Is it possible to have terrible RNG on this? Absolutely. Whats the likelihood on a size of 75 entities? Close to zero. (Math/proof omitted)


Feel free to comment/share your thoughts (or point out mistakes). :)


Regards, 

 Kirtar

Funny, after nearly 20 maps i got only 3 skelly kills...

So around 1 kill per 6 maps, with rough maths I should clear that thing after 450 maps x 15 min like you said for a super duper total of... 112.5 hours just for the skelly boss... YAY ME!

This monthly is stupid, I'l never say it enough times.

Was that in NM end game maps (i.e. not Free play or Inc)?

You want NM end game maps for the skellies

If so, RNG hates you.

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@Kirtar quote:


 

Your enumeration of special enemies lacks Slekeleon, unless you specifically wanted to exclude him from the "most common" ones. Personally i encounter him as often as the others. My take on this whole topic:


Assumptions: (in my opinion all of these are somewhat reasonable)

  • Equal distribution of special enemies. (That is a 1 in a 3 chance of hitting a special that counts towards the monthly)
  • Four (4) special enemies per standard endgame map on nightmare x difficulty.
  • 15 minute completion time of aforementioned endgame map of your choice.
  • 15 minute completion time for an incursion map of your choice.


Calculus:

  • 4 * (1/3) = 4/3 ~= 1.33 special enemies on average towards the quest per map.
  • 75 / (4/3) = 56.25 maps to kill 75 special enemies that count on average.
  • 56.25 * 15 = 843.75 [minutes] ~= 14 [hours] to complete this part of the quest on average.
  • 15 * 25 = 375 [minutes] = 6.25 [hours] to complete the incursion part of the quest.

Results:

Based on above assumptions it should take approximately 20 hours to complete this monthly quest. Make it 30 and its still only averaging 1 hour of time played per day. Some thoughts on the RNG: The worst case makes you hit 0 specials compared to 1.33, whereas a positive RNG can make you hit more than 2.66 (up to 4) specials per map, which results in a shorter total completion time on average when factoring in RNG. Is it possible to have terrible RNG on this? Absolutely. Whats the likelihood on a size of 75 entities? Close to zero. (Math/proof omitted)


Feel free to comment/share your thoughts (or point out mistakes). :)


Regards, 

 Kirtar

Your 15 minute map clearance time (build and clear) is unrealistic and optimistic for most players I would suggest.

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I do feel that there should be at least a NM incursion that has the layout from the description in the Monthly quest.  Lots of undead being lead by the bear.  Maybe a version like the crossroads where you get three skeletons at the end instead of 3 ogres. 


Also It looks like there may be another difference between the ogre quest and the current skeleton quest.   Ogre had the "You kill" in it and only seemed to count if you did the kill so you either needed a great DPS or run it solo to get the kill.   While it may take longer to find the skeletons it may be easier for groups of 4 to complete all their quests. 

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@mkjo quote:
Your 15 minute map clearance time (build and clear) is unrealistic and optimistic for most players I would suggest.

I assume this to be true and in fact I did two test runs now on Liferoot Forest Nightmare 3 and both took about 21-22 minutes from spawning to clearing including selling stuff and restarting to get to the spawn point again. This was done in a routine and concentrated fashion, so yeah, with my base calculations this would come down to 30 hours total rather than 20. (Which btw somewhat accurately represents my current progress on the monthly quest as i have about a third done with a playtime of roughly 10 hours.) 

So i guess any individual player can take the 15 minutes per map resulting in 20 hours total and do their own estimate. (e.g. 30 minutes per map? => roughly 40 hours total). With less than 30 hours needed for an average player i would've argued that the amount of time needed to finish this quest is (in my opinion) reasonable, but any higher than that might indeed make many players refrain from attempting this monthly unless it gets re-balanced or any special event occurs regarding halloween.

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@mkjo quote:

This is the fail IMO. The inability to dedicate your monthly event farming time efficiently. 25 incursions giving, say 25 skeletons would have ben a solid start

25 would be much more reasonable. That's still a stretch for many people, but much more in alignment with time investment compared to quests from prior months.

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@gigazelle quote:


@mkjo quote:

This is the fail IMO. The inability to dedicate your monthly event farming time efficiently. 25 incursions giving, say 25 skeletons would have ben a solid start

25 would be much more reasonable. That's still a stretch for many people, but much more in alignment with time investment compared to quests from prior months.

Sorry, I was probably not clear. I was not suggesting 25 skeletons should be the target. I was trying to suggest that if Incursions had even one skeleton in them then that would account for 25 leaving 50 to farm.

I must also be a slow builder as I would allow for 25 - 30 minutes per map but I am joining players in for the special boss waves

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