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vSyNd

Creating a Trading System in DD2!

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@vSyNd quote:


Larger player base.

Here is Path of Exile's player base, and it uses the system.

http://steamcharts.com/app/238960


Inventory space being taxed... yea that's bad for the players, but not game breaking, and actually helps Trendy make money.


Development will take a while, but wouldn't you rather game develop with something amazing in it, other than just mediocre. I'm all for longer dev cycle if the payout is worth it.


Nah, this is great feedback. We are weighing the pros and cons. Do you have anymore to add?


Maybe instead of a full blown PoE System, we could just use elements of that system. The point is definitely to make a trade system that is fun, I personally have had a good time with the PoE System, but I can see that implementing it to it's fullest would be quite difficult.


So what are some ideas on a partial system?

I doubt POE's large player base is because of the trading system.  In fact, if it rolled out with a different system I doubt its numbers would be much different.  But idk much about the game.  It's definitely different than DD2 - it's hack/slash, has a popular tone/atmosphere, large exposure (kripp streaming it), and probably a bunch more other things that DD2 doesn't have, didn't do, or just isn't.


F2P games don't make money off of every player - it's remarkably skewed to a smaller group buying things - many play actually for free.  Forcing players to buy bags to be able to play the game effectively is something TE is outright against, and even if they weren't it'd be a poor decision that would make people try the game out and gtfo as soon as they get annoyed enough with managing inv space more closely than placing towers lol


And yeah, I'd rather a badass game than a mediocre one.  But this POE trading system isn't exactly exciting enough for me to think it would improve anything in a meaningful way.  This game is very different, and its target audience is very different.  I'd rather they spend time figuring out the economy prices (low development, high impact), setting rules for loot (low development, high impact), where as this is like a high development high impact sort of change imo


To your first point also, consider we STILL have pet threads every week spreading misinformation about legendary pets having higher empower stats.  I've given up clarifying.  DD2 will hugely benefit from very obvious and intuitive systems in place. 

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Why can we simply not have a trading system where I can swap items with another player?

I am struggling to find Volatile Schematics helmet but have Purging Evil staffs coming out of the wazoo. It would be nice to do a swap with someone 


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@mkjo quote:

Why can we simply not have a trading system where I can swap items with another player?

I am struggling to find Volatile Schematics helmet but have Purging Evil staffs coming out of the wazoo. It would be nice to do a swap with someone 


Because it magnifies the game design flaw that is the entire concept of nightmare progression. As soon as new players hit level 50, they can mosey along over to someone who is trading NM3-4 gear and equip themselves with full sets for each of their heroes. They've effectively skipped 400 ipwr levels and and can further perpetuate the cycle by farming and selling NM3-4 gear to other newly leveled 50 players.

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@gigazelle quote:


@mkjo quote:

Why can we simply not have a trading system where I can swap items with another player?

I am struggling to find Volatile Schematics helmet but have Purging Evil staffs coming out of the wazoo. It would be nice to do a swap with someone 


Because it magnifies the game design flaw that is the entire concept of nightmare progression. As soon as new players hit level 50, they can mosey along over to someone who is trading NM3-4 gear and equip themselves with full sets for each of their heroes. They've effectively skipped 400 ipwr levels and and can further perpetuate the cycle by farming and selling NM3-4 gear to other newly leveled 50 players.

Which is just a little faster than the same 50 joining a NM3-4 game right away and collecting the items.

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@gigazelle quote:


@mkjo quote:

Why can we simply not have a trading system where I can swap items with another player?

I am struggling to find Volatile Schematics helmet but have Purging Evil staffs coming out of the wazoo. It would be nice to do a swap with someone 


Because it magnifies the game design flaw that is the entire concept of nightmare progression. As soon as new players hit level 50, they can mosey along over to someone who is trading NM3-4 gear and equip themselves with full sets for each of their heroes. They've effectively skipped 400 ipwr levels and and can further perpetuate the cycle by farming and selling NM3-4 gear to other newly leveled 50 players.

Yea, this would be a problem. Idk what they will have to implement to keep trading from being like this.


Someone suggested items that drop have a timer on them, so they can't be traded after 2 hours from hitting the inventory or something. Not sure if this would fully eliminate that, but it would help some? idk, haven't thought of all the possibilities.


------------------------------------

Items can only be traded for PoE style currency... but the currency has tiers based on where it drops from... and you can only trade gear for that currency of that tier.


NM1 currency can trade for NM1 gear but NOT nm2-4 gear.

NM2 currency can be traded for NM1-2 gear but NOT for NM3-4 gear.

NM3 currency can be traded for NM1-3 gear but NOT NM4 gear.

NM4 Currency can be traded for only NM4 gear.


But the currencies can be traded between eachother, therefore friends can make the trades cause they trust eachother, while normal trading between non-friends is only done with currency of equal valued items?


So want to tade with a friend for higher gear? nm1 currency traded for nm4 currency, then nm4 currency traded for nm4 gear. So these guys being friend means they trust eachother with higher currency.


while if you are doing a normal trade, then you wouldnt want to trade your nm4 currency for nm1 to try and get free nm4 gear or whatever... cause you cant always trust people you're trading with.

--------------------


is it a perfect system? nope.

but its better than being able to trade for whatever you want.

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@Chappyy quote:


@gigazelle quote:


@mkjo quote:

Why can we simply not have a trading system where I can swap items with another player?

I am struggling to find Volatile Schematics helmet but have Purging Evil staffs coming out of the wazoo. It would be nice to do a swap with someone 


Because it magnifies the game design flaw that is the entire concept of nightmare progression. As soon as new players hit level 50, they can mosey along over to someone who is trading NM3-4 gear and equip themselves with full sets for each of their heroes. They've effectively skipped 400 ipwr levels and and can further perpetuate the cycle by farming and selling NM3-4 gear to other newly leveled 50 players.

Which is just a little faster than the same 50 joining a NM3-4 game right away and collecting the items.

@gigazelle

1. Why would / should noobs gearing in that way bother you?

2. Your reason given for not wanting trading is to prevent accelerated gearing for noobs. As Chappy said they can do that by joining a game and hoover simulate for a few rounds anyway.


I hear a lot of (not saying this is you, I have read most of your suggestions for the game and I know you have other views on this) "give me unlimited hero deck" ...those that choose to limit themselves can do so.  Why can this not be the same for trading?

Those that want to trade items can. Those that do not want to trade can choose not to.

Without a currency per se it would be more of a barter system, kept in check by limited item space


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@mkjo quote:

1. Why would / should noobs gearing in that way bother you?

2. Your reason given for not wanting trading is to prevent accelerated gearing for noobs. As Chappy said they can do that by joining a game and hoover simulate for a few rounds anyway.


I hear a lot of (not saying this is you, I have read most of your suggestions for the game and I know you have other views on this) "give me unlimited hero deck" ...those that choose to limit themselves can do so.  Why can this not be the same for trading?

Those that want to trade items can. Those that do not want to trade can choose not to.

Without a currency per se it would be more of a barter system, kept in check by limited item space


Trendy has ultimate control over the most effective ways players can progress in the game. Tying the most effective way to progress to skipping huge amounts of content equates to less engagement from the player and wasted work on Trendy's end. Easy come, easy go. That's not a healthy game model, especially one that depends on continual player engagement to generate revenue.

If trading was implemented, the most effective way to progress would look like this:

  1. Grind free play until you have one of each hero to 50
  2. Trade for NM3-4 gear that will inevitably oversaturate the market
  3. Beat all content easily
  4. Complain on the forums that there's not enough content in the game

This is not the fault of the player for skipping content - this is the fault of Trendy for making the best way to progress also the most boring, short and uninteresting. Even so, this vicious cycle exists right now with step two being "join someone else's game and pick up loot", but is mitigated by finding an available game. If trading was implemented right now, it would exponentially increase the speed and accessibility of free tickets to end game.

Nightmare is absolutely nothing but one giant gear check, and when players can circumvent that gear check by trading, there's no point to even having Insane or NM1-3 except for those select few people who legitimately progress through it the day after the patch hits. If NM5 was released in the future, NM4 becomes instantly pointless except for those few select people who legitimately progress through it. The gap of skipped content is no longer Insane-NM4, it becomes insane-NM5. And if the level cap is raised? Grind free play until you hit it again.

In short, trading is not an issue - it's how gear works in the game that is. Trading pets would be fine, in fact I'd love to see this implemented short term. Accessories would be fine being tradable as well, in fact having them sold on the community market would be awesome. Tradable gear on the other hand would completely break how progression works in the game right now, and continually break how progression works whenever the level cap is raised or new content is released. Our current progression system is a disaster, and while trading is not inherently bad, it would make the already bad progression model worse.

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@gigazelle quote:

snip

I hear what you are saying. I would like to see a smooth transition through all the game modes too.

However, without the builder/host/kick control it is very difficult to balance encouraging co-op public games and for players to work through all of the content (and not simply level one hero to 50, jump in random games, gear up then go back and annihilate Free play with NM gear).

I have a problem with your step 2 though

2.Trade for NM3-4 gear that will inevitably oversaturate the market

Well, to get the gear to trade, they must play it first so at least players are playing.

You have posted elsewhere the game mechanics are encouraging play that is not fun.

I would say that farming NM3 maps 20 times in a row as a huntress wanting a Volatile Schematics helmet is not fun. Particularly if I have a pal that has 3 or 4 and could easily swap me for an item I have spare. Improving each of our builders and, perhaps, allowing us to move on to new content.

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@gigazelle quote:


Trendy has ultimate control over the most effective ways players can progress in the game. Tying the most effective way to progress to skipping huge amounts of content equates to less engagement from the player and wasted work on Trendy's end. Easy come, easy go. That's not a healthy game model, especially one that depends on continual player engagement to generate revenue.

If trading was implemented, the most effective way to progress would look like this:

  1. Grind free play until you have one of each hero to 50
  2. Trade for NM3-4 gear that will inevitably oversaturate the market
  3. Beat all content easily
  4. Complain on the forums that there's not enough content in the game

This is not the fault of the player for skipping content - this is the fault of Trendy for making the best way to progress also the most boring, short and uninteresting. Even so, this vicious cycle exists right now with step two being "join someone else's game and pick up loot", but is mitigated by finding an available game. If trading was implemented right now, it would exponentially increase the speed and accessibility of free tickets to end game.

Nightmare is absolutely nothing but one giant gear check, and when players can circumvent that gear check by trading, there's no point to even having Insane or NM1-3 except for those select few people who legitimately progress through it the day after the patch hits. If NM5 was released in the future, NM4 becomes instantly pointless except for those few select people who legitimately progress through it. The gap of skipped content is no longer Insane-NM4, it becomes insane-NM5. And if the level cap is raised? Grind free play until you hit it again.

In short, trading is not an issue - it's how gear works in the game that is. Trading pets would be fine, in fact I'd love to see this implemented short term. Accessories would be fine being tradable as well, in fact having them sold on the community market would be awesome. Tradable gear on the other hand would completely break how progression works in the game right now, and continually break how progression works whenever the level cap is raised or new content is released. Our current progression system is a disaster, and while trading is not inherently bad, it would make the already bad progression model worse.

They could add more Campaignesk goals/quests to do at the end of each difficulty as a stepping stone. Where you can't trade your lower tier items with people that are further in the difficulty than you are, until you beat the difficulty stepping stone. You will only be able to trade with others in the same tier difficulty as yourself.


So you have to beat certain maps to unlock the next tier of difficulty... At the moment they have that with the campaign and getting to level 50, but they could add more to the end of each difficulty.


This would stop people from joining public games with people higher iPWR than themselves, because they would have had to beat the challenge map first.


So you would HAVE to beat a certain map to progress to NM1 from EndGame Insane.

Beat another map to go from NM1 to NM2.

another for NM2 to NM3

another for NM3 to NM4


Remember you wont be able to trade with people on the higher difficulties than what you've beaten. So if you haven't beaten the NM2 challenge, you can't trade NM2 or lower gear/currency  with someone that has NM3 currency and gear. They have beaten the NM2 challenge, and have been farming the new gear/currency, but they can't trade it with you until you also beat the NM2 challenge.


Make them challenging maps, but they also need to be beatable with obtainable gear... not the way progression is now, something doable.


I'm sure friends will carry friends through the game, and paying someone to beat those maps will happen, like in other games, but having those stepping stones will at least stop this from happening, and make trading better in each of their respected tiers.

------------------------------------------

This is kinda off topic, and more of on progression, but I agree something would need to be done about randoms joining other randoms to get carried.

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@mkjo quote:

I would say that farming NM3 maps 20 times in a row as a huntress wanting a Volatile Schematics helmet is not fun. Particularly if I have a pal that has 3 or 4 and could easily swap me for an item I have spare. Improving each of our builders and, perhaps, allowing us to move on to new content.

I agree with this as well, which is why I believe this thread was started in the first place. We'll want to figure out a system that lets players trade without making trading the most effective way to progress. From my perspective, I don't think this conversation can reach a conclusion until gear/loot progression has a complete overhaul.

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About to go Live on my Twitch Channel.


http://www.twitch.tv/vsynd1c4t3


--------------------------------


the stream is done for today, but you could always come by stome time if you want.

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I lived under a dark magical rock

So I dont know the system from name 

Maybe I know the system from experience but not from name 


If this system could improve DD2 greatly then I'm in for it 

But if not then this system can stay where it came from

mehehehehe

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@Angelatic-Birdy quote:

I lived under a dark magical rock

So I dont know the system from name 

Maybe I know the system from experience but not from name 


If this system could improve DD2 greatly then I'm in for it 

But if not then this system can stay where it came from

mehehehehe

Sorry to hear that...


I might update the main post with a little summary of the PoE Trading System, but the system is actually quite full of depth... so it's hard to summarize.


If you got the idea of what the new items that would be added to the game to make this new currency, what do you think about it? It adds a new random aspect to the game... aka rerolling stats on gear, while also making currency that can't be traded in a way to just give a fresh lvl 50 NM4 items.

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I absolutely dispise hunting for orbs to get gear, the game's gear is also terrible, because of how long it takes to obtain the peice of gear you want. Path of Exile's trading system is horrid. 


Path of exile is far too big of a grind. Much larger than any other game of it's type. It shouldn't be looked at to strive for. 


Making the game's currency vital for gear is what makes the game bad, you aren't looking for gear now you are looking for orbs. Which is horrendus.

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I've played quite a bit of PoE in the last two years (Steam says 1861 hours), and...
... PoE's trading system is awful. Keep it away from DD2.

The currency is entirely gamble based
(online gambling is a crime in many countries, plus it adds so much RNG that everything becomes worthless);

Everything can be traded by players, except for cosmetics
(DD2 is, AFAIK, going for tradeable cosmetics / cloth chests / chest keys... and keeping gear out of it, cos' RMT);

The economy isn't a mess because the game runs on 3-monthly based seasons
(the seasons end before the economy goes kaboom; the permanent leagues are pure chaos);

RMT.

RMT.

Did I say RMT already? DD2's team is adamant against RMT and doesn't want to implement anti-cheat measures beyond the ones they've already implemented (as in, server-sided actions for everything including private tavern), as RMT for items in DD1 made it attractive for CheatEngine abusers to try and generate items, somewhat breaking certain aspects of their game.

I could go more into depth, but am in a hurry right now.

tl;dr: PoE's system depends on everything (except for cosmetics) being tradeable: gear, currency... and this kind of trade gave headaches to Trendy in DD1, so don't expect it to come back in DD2. Go back to their devstreams, they were adamant about that at least twice.

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@vSyNd quote:


@Pachipachio quote:

The cons are really too heavy, especially since we want to make the game fun & intuitive for new players so that we can enjoy a large player base


Inventory space is already taxed highly by eggs, pet food, pet reagants, shellium, and gear you'd like to hold on to.  Free to play players start out with how many bags?  Isn't it like 4?  Even doing regular maps would be tough on inventory, let alone onslaught


Plus, the development time invested in this could be used elsewhere.  The guys who would work on this stuff already have overloaded plates.  Super overloaded


I don't wanna knock people theorycrafting new ideas but a lot of them are just too complex.  I feel bad for doing this in so many threads, but the plans the devs move forward with need to be both great functional ideas but also not take away too much time from the other things they need to do

Larger player base.

Here is Path of Exile's player base, and it uses the system.

http://steamcharts.com/app/238960


Inventory space being taxed... yea that's bad for the players, but not game breaking, and actually helps Trendy make money.


Development will take a while, but wouldn't you rather game develop with something amazing in it, other than just mediocre. I'm all for longer dev cycle if the payout is worth it.


Nah, this is great feedback. We are weighing the pros and cons. Do you have anymore to add?


Maybe instead of a full blown PoE System, we could just use elements of that system. The point is definitely to make a trade system that is fun, I personally have had a good time with the PoE System, but I can see that implementing it to it's fullest would be quite difficult.


So what are some ideas on a partial system?

Far smaller than Diablo 3 is now, which has 10s of thousands of players online

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@Jeshua quote:

(online gambling is a crime in many countries, plus it adds so much RNG that everything becomes worthless);

I'm fairly certain that gambling laws only apply if real money is involved.  Quite possible there has to be a chance to win real money too.

If all forms of RNG would be illegal, then DD2 would already be illegal too.

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I have not had any experience with PoE but personally I'm against adding another currency specifically to obtain equipment or to allow trading. I don't feel like it fits with DD2.

The main problem we have with trading is that it could potentially let people skip NM1 - NM3 due to people at endgame trading NM4 gear. What are some potential ways to prevent this?

  • Use Ipwr. Players cannot trade or obtain via trading gear that has a higher ipwr of their current character. This would mean players have to play and earn some NM3 gear before they can trade gear of the equivalent level
  • Create Equipment levels. After level 50 players still earn EXP but it goes towards Equipment levels. Each Tier of NM gear requires higher Equipment levels before it can be used. The EXP requirement and EXP earned will increase with difficulty so that it still has that natural progression feeling. This way you can trade for gear but you can use it unless you have the required level. (Personally I'm against this but it's an idea)
  • Use a similar style to Diablo 3 and have it so that items can only be traded between the people who were in the map it when it dropped for X hours. However this would prevent community wide trading.

Perhaps we can take an idea from GW2's item system. You can earn a chest that contains a specific tier of item and when you open the chest you get to decide from a set of predetermined set of stats. This would be VERY VERY op in DD2 so we would need this to be pretty hard to earn.

Vsynd I feel like you are thinking about two different mechanics in this thread. Trading and re rolling items. 

For the latter I would not be against having similar re roll items that are currently used with the pet system. 

  • A bow has Defense health and hero attack? Use the re roll item and try to re roll it to a stat that you are after. Although for this to work the re roll items would need to be pretty rare otherwise everyone will just re roll the first full set of legendary items. (Also my inventory is full of the pet versions!)
  • A passive re roll item would allow you to re roll one passive to another but the item must have had a class passive on it in the first place. Would also need to be ever rarer than normal stat re rolls (Perhaps have a different item that would add a class passive to an item?)

But we have to see what system Trendy want to fully implement. I can't remember who won the Crafter vs Enhancer influence vote but right now the enchantress/enchanter is currently overcharging for their services and not many people use them.

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Every trading system has it's flaws, I just enjoy the dynamic of being able to reroll stats on a useless item, which is about 90% of what is currently dropping in DD2. If we could turn that 90% of items into something we could reroll, we potential cut the useless item % down. By how much? idk, but IMO it would be better than it's current state.


In PoE you can't choose which stat you reroll, you just kinda reroll the whole item or add passives to an item. If you read everything in the Original Post you would see that the descriptions of how the items work isn't fully like that. It lets you reroll a stat on the item, not ALL the stats. That would be rather dumb to reroll all the stats, but you reroll a chosen stat at a chance to get a stat you want.


When I say use the PoE System, I don't mean exactly, I mean take the good out of it, and make it better.


Please make sure to read the Original Post and see exactly how I was saying the stat rerolls would work, and how you wouldn't be able to trade up in currency, but only within respected tiers.


Just because I say PoE style, doesn't mean EXACTLY PoE style, copy everything to a T. It means to take the good from it and improve on it and also make it cater to DD2.


Maybe what I'm describing isn't really even considered a PoE system, but my original thought on the matter did spark from the PoE system, and it has more of evolved into it's own system based on the descriptions I have given.


-------------------------------------


You guys are already rerolling pet stats (gambling) what's the difference in adding that SAME system to gear that drops.


Walk up to a vendor, select an piece of gear you want to reroll, use the reroll currency to reroll a specific stat on a piece of gear, and see if you can improve that piece of gear.


now... im going to take the same sentence and change gear to the word pet, you will see the mechanic is ALREADY in the game, so implementation actually wouldn't be as hard as I originally thought.


Walk up to a vendor, select a pet you want to reroll, use the reroll currency to reroll a specific stat on a pet, and see if you can improve that pet.


-------------------------------------


All in all, open your minds guys, there isn't a game with a perfect trading system, so trying to make one seems pretty hard, but I'd rather an in depth decent trading system than a.... here's my 5million gold that took me a month to farm, let me have that 1 piece of NM4 gear. thanks, good day.

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I ask that everyone goes back and goes over the details again, and let me know what you think.


I have changed the PoE System into something completely different and hardly resembling the PoE System at all anymore. Therefore, I have changed the title and claimed this new system of my own designed... only inspired by the PoE System.


PLEASE talk about the details of the original post, and potential flaws. Not about the PoE System anymore.


Thanks.

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@vSyNd quote:

I ask that everyone goes back and goes over the details again, and let me know what you think.

I have changed the PoE System into something completely different and hardly resembling the PoE System at all anymore. Therefore, I have changed the title and claimed this new system of my own designed... only inspired by the PoE System.

PLEASE talk about the details of the original post, and potential flaws. Not about the PoE System anymore.

Thanks.

You are better off creating two separate threads for this. One for your Trading proposal and another for your rerolling proposal. In fact I'd go as far to say as the only trading involved right now is the currency which I will get to further down.

Like you've said rerolling is already in the game for pets and we can add that to the gear system. I should have been more specific in my description and said that each reroll item would only be able to reroll one stat and that stat only so the item would already need to have 1 desirable stat on it. I don't see the need to split the reroll items between the Tiers of items though. Either you have the reroll item or you don't. Tier has nothing to do with it.

Having character specific passive reroll currency is a great idea and I +1 that on whatever feature Trendy implements. 

Ipwr reroll currency seems pretty pointless unless you mean to allow an item in the low T2 bracket to become high bracket T2 item with improved stats all round which to me seems to be bypassing the harder T2 NM levels.

Upgrade currency has potential and I like the sounds of it in theory but I would hope that the higher Tiers of the currency are super super rare because turning a rare helmet into a legendary helmet with the same stats reduces the longevity of the game. Unless you mean to turn that rare helmet into a random legendary helmet but then I'd have to ask... what's the point of that?

Overall there is something here and your idea has potential but it's not Trading between players. It's something that can be made better by a trading system. A basic trading system needs to be implemented first.

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I think your ideas would benefit greatly from deleting the text of your first post and rewriting your proposal from scratch.  The editing process has left the post kind of meandering and hard to follow.  In particular, it starts by listing the pros and cons of the system before any detail about what the system is has been provided.   

High level feedback:  

The PoE system has three important things going for it.  Firstly, the currency that people trade to each other for gear is inherently valuable, not abstractly valuable.  It has a concrete use and thus value in its ability to alter gear. The gold in DD2 is similarly valuable through its use to upgrade gear.  Secondly, it gets removed from the system whenever it is used on gear, and this helps to combat inflation (though inflation is still a problem in the long run). The same is true of the DD2 gold.  Thirdly, PoE has seasons which start with fresh economies and this limits the long term impact of inflation.

As Iunderstand it, you propose two types of currency in your post.  The first type, outlined as NM1/2/3/4 currency, is abstractly valuable.  It has no use other than to be accumulated and traded for gear.  Without any practical use or a centralized auction house for exchange, you are likely to end up with a very fuzzy marketplace where it may be hard to reach a consensus on how many NM 2tokens one should ask for in exchange for an ipwr X item.  Also, because it never gets removed from the system, inflation becomes a serious problem over time and acts as a large barrier to entry for new players.

The second type of currency you describe are items that drop and can be used to upgrade gear.  It is unclear if you think that these should be tradable, but since you describe them as “currency” my assumption is yes.  These items, as in PoE, are inherently valuable.  If tradable, then I do not think they can coexist with your first currency class because they will quickly become much more valuable to players than NM1/2/3/4 currency and relegate such currency to valueless junk. I suppose it could work if the only way to trade for the second type was with the first type, but this just creates another instance of currency being tradable for one thing but not another.  At some point it starts to feel like you need a flow chart to explain how you get from the currency you have to the thing you want to buy.  Ideally, the system should be more intuitive.

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@Argick quote:


You are better off creating two separate threads for this. One for your Trading proposal and another for your rerolling proposal. In fact I'd go as far to say as the only trading involved right now is the currency which I will get to further down.

Like you've said rerolling is already in the game for pets and we can add that to the gear system. I should have been more specific in my description and said that each reroll item would only be able to reroll one stat and that stat only so the item would already need to have 1 desirable stat on it. I don't see the need to split the reroll items between the Tiers of items though. Either you have the reroll item or you don't. Tier has nothing to do with it.

Having character specific passive reroll currency is a great idea and I +1 that on whatever feature Trendy implements. 

Ipwr reroll currency seems pretty pointless unless you mean to allow an item in the low T2 bracket to become high bracket T2 item with improved stats all round which to me seems to be bypassing the harder T2 NM levels.

Upgrade currency has potential and I like the sounds of it in theory but I would hope that the higher Tiers of the currency are super super rare because turning a rare helmet into a legendary helmet with the same stats reduces the longevity of the game. Unless you mean to turn that rare helmet into a random legendary helmet but then I'd have to ask... what's the point of that?

Overall there is something here and your idea has potential but it's not Trading between players. It's something that can be made better by a trading system. A basic trading system needs to be implemented first.

Yea, all of your thoughts on how it works is correct.


The reroll items will only work on 1 stat, you wont be able to reroll 2 different stats.


Character specific passives will reroll all the passives on the gear, so you could still not end up with the passives you want.


iPWR reroll works like you described, you can can only become a iPWR within the same Tier, you wont be able to increase the iPWR from nm3 to nm4 gear, but you will be able to reroll low iPWR nm3 gear to higher iPWR nm3 gear. or it could fail miserably and go lower nm3 iPWR. :P


Whenever you turn a regular item into a legendary, all the stats/passives are reset and random.


The reason for tiers is so there can be a trading system with the currencies at your current tier, you can trade with people that are on the same tier as you, but never above your tier until you meet the requirements (beating the stepping stone map).


the only way this trade system will work is if you add the reroll value to the system, which is why they are one in the same. Trading/Rerolling


If you implement trading without the currency reroll value, there isn't a tradeable currency.


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thanks for the input Argick, hope I clarified a few things, it's hard to work out all the details alone, more input i get the better the changes can be.


good and bad input helps, just gotta explain why its good and why its bad, so we can come up with a way to make the bad good and the good better.

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