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Hzsharp

Why Are the Skill Spheres so expensive?

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I see that the prices riced a lot. Now a level 40 skill sphere is 125k gold! Beshide that I have been calculating the average gold II'm getting per map, and that is only around 2k ish. I was wondering if thoses prices are bugged or if it is ment to be that expensive.


And how much gold do you guys get a map?


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The sphere prices were raised to astronomical levels in the last patch. It's a real pain in the chops right now. In fact, can we please get a comment on this from Trendy? People have been talking about it since the A&B patch, and you keep waving it off on the dev stream "blah blah blah economy". 

1 large sphere would empty my coffers. Gold is given with a teaspoon. I'm sure there's a plan.... somewhere, but why would you have made this change without any other supporting effects? 

We should be grinding for gear, not for "talents". 

I even consider it ok to make the "unique" spheres expensive, but the rest of them should not be. 

And that's not even including the cost of upgrading costumes, pets and enhancing items. 


Please don't make us wait a month and a half before you change the prices, making all of us empty our gold reserves in the meantime, only to have you quarter the prices again. It's REALLY frustrating. 

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Yeah gold onslaught mode is a joke, sale of items for cash that were ok continues to be nerfed, equipment sales where ipwr / rarity means nothing is ridiculous..


Why tank $ sales and spike prices at the same time?  Trendy seems to be extremes in economy, tower power, defense power balancing, and we seem to be definitively in the basement for all 3 right now.

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They made it impossible to do anything with gold for more casual players because the people running nonstop onslaught and cheesing nm were getting too much gold. Basically the same reason they do everything they do, the people at end-endgame are doing unintended things so instead of fixing that they make it next to impossible for those not already at end-endgame to get there or to even progress. The terrible side effect (that they need to stop doing immediately) of them focusing only on one part of the game for changes that affect the entire game.

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@Finaldeath quote:

They made it impossible to do anything with gold for more casual players because the people running nonstop onslaught and cheesing nm were getting too much gold. Basically the same reason they do everything they do, the people at end-endgame are doing unintended things so instead of fixing that they make it next to impossible for those not already at end-endgame to get there or to even progress. The terrible side effect (that they need to stop doing immediately) of them focusing only on one part of the game for changes that affect the entire game.

Knee jerk reaction without any thought. They did not even bother to consider that at these prices any new players can not test these spheres for balance/bug/feedback concerns.

Honestly, I advise others to put the game on hold until they fix their stuff because, atm, Trendy is one hell of a mess and trying to shove as many features out the door as they can to garner sells due to financial concerns and you will not be able to properly play the game for the time being. If you want to try to continue playing save up for the mine double activation large sphere, and ignore the others as that is the only truly relevant one in the group, atm if you had to pick one. The way they monetize the game vs DLC/base cost doesn't work unless they have significantly more players and they have a larger development team as well as a history of hardcore development issues. It is legitimately possible, unless they drastically increase their pace which they have been in the last 3 months, Trendy could run out of money before it even sees release. I can tell you, however, if it manages to pass hurdles and reach release it has a lot of potential for a gaming community. Their social city-like tavern concept as well as current/peak player base vs DD1 is fairly impressive. We also should not be running into the severe hacking issues like in DD1 which heavily fractured the community interaction. DD2 gives a very mixed and sour hope for its future.

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@antiproton quote:

The sphere prices were raised to astronomical levels in the last patch. It's a real pain in the chops right now. In fact, can we please get a comment on this from Trendy? People have been talking about it since the A&B patch, and you keep waving it off on the dev stream "blah blah blah economy". 

Here's what [[48971,users]] said in reply to someone on his blog:

"Thanks for the reply! Similar to our process with Nightmare, we are currently actively working on the economy. Before if you remember gold was really plentiful and we had a lot of comments of it feeling useless. Now we tried a more aggressive approach and eventually we'd get it in a good enough place! TrendyJayT is actively working on that stuff!"

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@iamisom quote:


@antiproton quote:

The sphere prices were raised to astronomical levels in the last patch. It's a real pain in the chops right now. In fact, can we please get a comment on this from Trendy? People have been talking about it since the A&B patch, and you keep waving it off on the dev stream "blah blah blah economy". 

Here's what Blacksmith said in reply to someone on his blog:

"Thanks for the reply! Similar to our process with Nightmare, we are currently actively working on the economy. Before if you remember gold was really plentiful and we had a lot of comments of it feeling useless. Now we tried a more aggressive approach and eventually we'd get it in a good enough place! TrendyJayT is actively working on that stuff!"

Plentiful gold huh...

That may be true but accessorizes upgrades still costed a ton back then

and leveling pet with gold also costed a ton 

Hardcore players may had ton of gold but not the casual players... 

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The first level of an Upgrade any Items cost 200 gold? but thaaan - 10k - +25k  up... OMG!

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@iamisom quote:


@antiproton quote:

The sphere prices were raised to astronomical levels in the last patch. It's a real pain in the chops right now. In fact, can we please get a comment on this from Trendy? People have been talking about it since the A&B patch, and you keep waving it off on the dev stream "blah blah blah economy". 

Here's what Blacksmith said in reply to someone on his blog:

"Thanks for the reply! Similar to our process with Nightmare, we are currently actively working on the economy. Before if you remember gold was really plentiful and we had a lot of comments of it feeling useless. Now we tried a more aggressive approach and eventually we'd get it in a good enough place! TrendyJayT is actively working on that stuff!"

I will be as gentle as possible I hope ref: Bold text Blacksmith:

Gold was only plentiful because Nightmare complete runs were faster, had a Temporary Item Box, many items had a really good resell value, much much more items were dropping relative to loot drops now. This is definitely not the same game as "Before" I'm sorry.


Making gold meaningful is NOT increasing prices on items. It's by adding consumables and more items in the game that we can purchase. If there was a properly functioning Vendor in the game, perhaps we could have solved our problems with 1 NPC. 


/rant: ON

Now, people feel punished every time they make a bad Sphere purchase, 

ie: spending 125,000 gold on 2 (not 1 but 2***) (L) Serenity Range Gambit I. -- (yes, I mistakenly was thinking it was 2 medium spheres, why would you allow the purchase of 2 Large sphere in the first place, jeez ...)  

Upgrading a piece of gear (beyond the first upgrade level of 5 items fused) then getting a better drop 5 mins later ...

Re-rolling pet stats then finally hatching that RNG pet you've always wanted ...

Purchasing small spheres and then having no use for them once you reach level 50 ...

Millions of Gold to upgrade 1 pet to Elder O.o ...

/rant: OFF


I was happy with how gold was personally. I would like to hear the people who made comments on gold feeling useless in today's current state of the game.

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@nuzo quote:


/rant: ON

Re-rolling pet stats then finally hatching that RNG pet you've always wanted ...

/rant: OFF


Pets are much worse than that.  You can't just grab a newly hatched pet and replace it with your veteran/elder pet <.< you've already sunk 3-5 million gold into upgrading it, you're STUCK with the 50k reroll costs lol

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It was way better as it was before. Considering costs for upgrading items, rerolling pets and such stuff, economy is pretty broken right now. So yeah, no decent source of gold and everything costs a 1st born son and a kidney because 0,1% of the players had too much gold before the wipe.

@iamisom quote:


@antiproton quote:

The sphere prices were raised to astronomical levels in the last patch. It's a real pain in the chops right now. In fact, can we please get a comment on this from Trendy? People have been talking about it since the A&B patch, and you keep waving it off on the dev stream "blah blah blah economy". 

Here's what Blacksmith said in reply to someone on his blog:

"Thanks for the reply! Similar to our process with Nightmare, we are currently actively working on the economy. Before if you remember gold was really plentiful and we had a lot of comments of it feeling useless. Now we tried a more aggressive approach and eventually we'd get it in a good enough place! TrendyJayT is actively working on that stuff!"


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@iamisom quote:


@antiproton quote:

The sphere prices were raised to astronomical levels in the last patch. It's a real pain in the chops right now. In fact, can we please get a comment on this from Trendy? People have been talking about it since the A&B patch, and you keep waving it off on the dev stream "blah blah blah economy". 

Here's what Blacksmith said in reply to someone on his blog:

"Thanks for the reply! Similar to our process with Nightmare, we are currently actively working on the economy. Before if you remember gold was really plentiful and we had a lot of comments of it feeling useless. Now we tried a more aggressive approach and eventually we'd get it in a good enough place! TrendyJayT is actively working on that stuff!"

Why completely gut the entire economy in terms of how you can actually make gold without any compensation/buff balancing? You had it set up before so that the only method to generate cash was to sell Shellium Shards for 2k each and even than 100-200k was quite a bit as it took a couple of days and a LOT of onslaught rounds just to produce this (basically wayyyy to much time for one skill sphere at current price). Now this is what, 250?, along with egg prices and you still CAN NOT make money from selling loot (because 400-2k gold from loot sells regardless of quality, ipw, etc. per 20-30 minute map runs is totally ideal, right?). There is no way to actually make a reasonable profit. It is now significantly easier to make 60 tokens for an uber than it is to buy a single large skill sphere. If this is the way balancing is handled, hardcore trial and error without any pre-emptive thought, than you guys at Trendy may want to reconsider your approach. Based on what I just stated, there really is no excuse for it to be THIS bad. In addition DD2 suffers from the severe consequence that these spheres are virtually impossible for newer players who didn't already have them to get thus reducing feedback regarding balance/bugs related to these spheres. Some type of gap-stop measure needs to be taken to resolve the issue for the time being, its pretty silly. Please, for future reference do not mix up aggressive approach with reckless abandon. :/ Know I use such blunt words for the bettering of DD2, because turning a blind eye solves nothing.

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@iamisom quote:


@antiproton quote:

The sphere prices were raised to astronomical levels in the last patch. It's a real pain in the chops right now. In fact, can we please get a comment on this from Trendy? People have been talking about it since the A&B patch, and you keep waving it off on the dev stream "blah blah blah economy". 

Here's what Blacksmith said in reply to someone on his blog:

"Thanks for the reply! Similar to our process with Nightmare, we are currently actively working on the economy. Before if you remember gold was really plentiful and we had a lot of comments of it feeling useless. Now we tried a more aggressive approach and eventually we'd get it in a good enough place! TrendyJayT is actively working on that stuff!"

Thanks for the reply on this topic!  However, without coming off too brash... you do realize with nothing else to spend gold on since the item shop gear is always TERRIBLE, and paying to feed your pets is insanely steep, *IN COMPARATIVE TO THEIR USEFULENESS*, thats why gold is worthless.  Upping the price of spheres was maybe the worst way about fixing your economy.   Suggestions include making the item shop useful.  Do something cool trendy... hear me out on this.  Make them sell 5 items  - the gear sold in ipwr should ALWAYS be in comparative to what the latest level you just beat was.  When you join the tavern for the first time, or even better yet, take merchants out of social tavern all together - the more levels you beat consecutively increase the odds of the shops having more rare items.  Or take it out completely, thats how useless it is right now.

Another suggestion to stimulate gold usage is to make pets legit, obviously, thats been discussed.  How about adding the chance to reroll stats to another stat, like if you get that perfect apprentice frosty tower buff but dang it, it came with tower health and not power... let me reroll that for 50k the first time, chancing me to get any other stat, and 55 the next, 60 after that etc. 

All in all, stimulating gold usage but upping the price of legitimately needed passives to grow your character was a soft idea, there are better ones out there! :D

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Gold was easy to get back before the Great Wipe.  I recall sitting on over a million with nothing much to do with it.  With 5.0 you slashed item sell prices and victory chest gold amounts to a tenth of what they were, cutting off two major sources of income.  At the same time pet rerolling was introduced, and IIRC item upgrade costs were increased as well.  During 5.x I felt that the economy was fairly good.  Now you've increased pet reroll costs tenfold and quadrupled large sphere prices, which I think is ridiculous.

Sphere and pet rerolls are not good gold sinks because neither of them is a continuous process.   Once players get the spheres they want and good stats for their pets, they stop using these services.  By increasing the costs you've only made life difficult for casual and new players, but long-time heavy grinders can continue to amass gold as before.

Skill sphere prices were in need of some fine-tuning, since the different ranks were very close to each other.  That aspect is better now, and small and medium sphere prices seem reasonable.  It's just the large ones that have gone out of whack.

Gold sinks should be aimed at activities that players, and especially endgame players, do a lot.  You have better data on that than I do, but my bet is that it's related to items.  I'd suggest looking into the price curve of upgrading items, but I haven't really seen what it's currently like past the first ten levels.  Another potential thing to do is introduce item durability and repair costs, though I'm certain you'll get some sternly worded responses if you do that.

Ultimately it's impossible to keep the economy completely in check in a game where currency is generated out of thin air.  There will always be those who value the currency itself more than the things you want them to spend it on, so you'll inevitably see players with heaps of gold.  You'll just have to accept that and focus on making the experience enjoyable or at least tolerable to the average player.

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@iamisom quote:


@antiproton quote:

The sphere prices were raised to astronomical levels in the last patch. It's a real pain in the chops right now. In fact, can we please get a comment on this from Trendy? People have been talking about it since the A&B patch, and you keep waving it off on the dev stream "blah blah blah economy". 

Here's what Blacksmith said in reply to someone on his blog:

"Thanks for the reply! Similar to our process with Nightmare, we are currently actively working on the economy. Before if you remember gold was really plentiful and we had a lot of comments of it feeling useless. Now we tried a more aggressive approach and eventually we'd get it in a good enough place! TrendyJayT is actively working on that stuff!"


it only felt useless because it had little use ingame, but it was never plenty. upgrading gear costs millions, trying to force evolve pet costs millions. I may be wrong but i don't remember anyone complaining about having too much gold. at that time i played more than a casual player would play but i never had too much gold, even with gold sphere equipped. I think economy now is much worse than it was before. 

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@iamisom quote:


@antiproton quote:

The sphere prices were raised to astronomical levels in the last patch. It's a real pain in the chops right now. In fact, can we please get a comment on this from Trendy? People have been talking about it since the A&B patch, and you keep waving it off on the dev stream "blah blah blah economy". 

Here's what Blacksmith said in reply to someone on his blog:

"Thanks for the reply! Similar to our process with Nightmare, we are currently actively working on the economy. Before if you remember gold was really plentiful and we had a lot of comments of it feeling useless. Now we tried a more aggressive approach and eventually we'd get it in a good enough place! TrendyJayT is actively working on that stuff!"

Gold was fine before.

I had 1.5 mil and was happily waiting to sink it into a decent pet and rerolls.

Since NM was so easy I didn't need to upgrade anything apart from perfect gear.

If you'd left it as is, with the NM difficulty adjustment, I would have had the gold to spend on upgrades which I need and feeding my pets for those extra stats. I'd probably even had the money to spend on spheres.

Adjusting both at once was pretty dumb...

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Gold was worthless in DD1 where people had hundreds of billions of mana (gold as was) The only thing it was used for was to buy low value items or coal to then use that to create a diamond or trade high end items. So if there is a need for a gold sink it would be a menagerie shop with pets to buy with gold, or have the traders actually have something worth buying.


As it is gold is scarce and some items are far too expensive, as i think everyone is telling Trendy.

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