Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
gigazelle

The fundamental flaws with end game gear

Recommended Posts

As a result of a recent conversation held with iamisom, I will be doing a 4-part analysis (actually after I started writing these there might be more) on the biggest issues DD2 currently has that significantly detracts from the player experience. Today's part focuses on end game gear, more specifically disparity between a fresh level 50 hero and a veteran level 50 hero.

Part 1: Hero Combat
Part 2: Hero Deck
Part 3: This one
Part 4: Difficulty and nightmare
Part 5: Skill spheres and passives
Part 6: Accessories

Gear disparity creates a huge negative experience for all players.

Since NM1 requires level 50 and NM4 requires level 50, there's nothing stopping players from hopping into games far above their gear level in hopes to get a couple sturdy/powerful drops. However if the new nightmare content is balanced around the requirement of having 4 well-geared heroes, the mere existence of one undergeared random player just about guarantees a loss for the entire party. This means really the only way to tackle late game is by small groups of friends, and only if you just so happen to be at the same ipwr as they are. Can I just tell you how frustrating that sounds? Public games would literally be impossible. Yes, I literally mean literally! This is a system that cannot work, especially for a game designed to appeal to the masses.

Fresh level 50 heroes are encouraged to skip content.

Yes, encouraged. Players are going to take the path of least resistance, and grinding through NM1-3 is a lot harder than joining a friend so they can quickly gear up to help them farm in NM4.

There is no barrier to entry in regards to tackling NM4 content other than a gear check. Upon the release of the Loot & Survive update, players legitimately progressed from NM1 to NM4 within a few days. I'm not even talking about the "exploiters" here, but they reached NM4 even faster. Those players then helped other level 50's reach NM4. This continues to propagate until everyone is sitting on top-notch gear, bored out of their minds because there's only 1-2 maps to farm. This pattern has existed for the entire lifetime of DD2, even well before Early Access.

It does not matter how well content is balanced - players skipping to NM4 is guaranteed to happen, and the worst part is that the current model actively encourages it. If I was a fresh level 50 and I wanted to join a group of people farming 850 gear, I can only assume the group would be happy to have me - what, are they going to turn down an extra player to help them farm? Are they really going to say "git gud" and make me go farm my own gear? Of course not! They'd help bring me up to their level so I can be another person to help them out. Gearing me up would only take a match or two, and would likely involve either of the following tactics, both of which are relatively easy:

  • If the hardest NM4 content has to be passed with four geared heroes, all they need to do is play a round or two at ipwr 800, where 4 active heroes are not required. I gear up at ipwr 800, which makes me more than viable enough to farm top-quality gear with them. Since there are no additional mechanics beyond bigger numbers, this makes it very easy for my group to accomplish this.
  • At any point where there's even a slightly overtuned defense, you introduce the possibility that a build takes less players to actively maintain, thus allowing fresh level 50's to hop in a game to get some ipwr 850 gear. Considering how often overtuned defenses make it in the game, this will likely occur very frequently.

I'm saying here that it is impossible to gate players based on defense/enemy health/damage alone. That's why levels exist in the first place! 

A gear trading economy is impossible to implement.

Imagine if trading was implemented in the current build of DD2. The first people to hit NM4 would pawn off their greens and blues for hefty sums of gold, unlocking the ability to complete NM4 for everyone. Sincere question to Trendy on this one - how do you intend to introduce trading when gear is literally the only gate to NM4? I will say one thing here - either gear disparity among level 50's exist, or trading exists. They cannot in any way co-exist without introducing massive ramifications to the health and economy of the game. Trading and NM4 being merely a gear check is 100% mutually exclusive.

Pets being tradable right now? Certainly. Accessories being tradable right now? Might take some tweaking on how the system works, but sure. Armor being tradable right now? Disastrous.

Gear ranges would not make sense when the level cap is eventually increased.

So what happens when the level cap is raised to 60? What ipwr do level 100's wear? Because right now all levels leading up to 50 have very definitive ipwr gear requirements. Later on in the game's timeline, level 50 will have no significance. However when they hit level 50, all of a sudden there's this massive gear range from 240-850, so I guess level 49 would wear ipwr 230 and level 51 would wear ipwr 860? It just doesn't make sense.

Let's imagine a different scenario - what if the level cap is raised to 60, but the max ipwr stays at 850? Is all ipwr 850 gear all of a sudden going to have a level 60 hero requirement, locking players out of their gear? I seriously doubt that. Adding two and two here, I smell either another reroll or a full-on gear wipe in the future. One of the following MUST happen:

  • Level cap is raised, and level 50 arbitrarily has a range of 600 ipwr
  • Level cap is never raised, and ipwr perpetually gets bigger and bigger. Trading is never implemented because that would let players instantly skip to the end
  • Gear wipe or reroll so this mess can be properly fixed

Take your pick, my friends.

Honorable mention

I'd just like to throw out there that DDE also had a massive disparity between fresh level 60's and veteran level 60's. Splendid gear is all over the place, kind of how DD2 level 50 gear is. While this evidence is more anecdotal, it is worth at least mentioning.

My personal suggestion

  1. Make the journey the experience. Max level should not be where the majority of the game is. "Happiness is in the journey, not the destination". I would be a happy clam if the leveling process was enjoyable from start to finish.
  2. Tie hero effectiveness to level, not by what they're wearing. If I'm a level 50 squire and I'm paired up with another level 50 squire, our defenses should be roughly equal in effectiveness but drastically different in utility. I might have a faster attack rate but less damage per shot, and his defenses might shoot slower but deal a lot more damage per shot. This also makes co-op builds much more viable and common.
  3. Keep ipwr range tight on max level so you can increase the level cap later on. Having 600 ipwr for level 50 has essentially painted itself into a corner without any way out.
  4. I haven't decided how I feel about this part, but since it's alpha it couldn't hurt to try it out. Take a note from DD1 and make max level gear much more rare. That way getting a max level legendary would be on par with that feeling in DD1 where you got an ultimate++ drop.

How do you feel about the differences between fresh level 50's and fully geared level 50's? Is it a mechanic that you enjoy? Instead of increasing the level cap, would you rather simply see higher ipwr drops introduced?

Edited by gigazelle
Link updates

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FIRST! - I'm halfway through this post and agree with everything you have said to this point... i will continue to read

1) gated end game progression - what about requiring completion of each map on NM1 before moving on to NM2 and so on? I hate some maps... but so do most other folks and this might be a good way to "gate" the fresh 50's from joining NM4 maps and skipping to the end. Basically continue the progression we were forced to do in campaign in NM.

2) Trading...  i don't see a way this will work if keeping others from jumping right into NM4 is a concern unless you have somethng silly like "can't buy ipwr 600 helm unless you own an ipwr 600 helm" etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Skipping content - (parties get scaled to the lowest player)
Making the nightmare tiers campaign style, you can only unlock the next map untill you've done previous map/difficulty.  While this could be frustrating for some people, it would give players a good oppertunity to find other players on the same level of matchmaking and progression.
Eg. I want to play nimbus reach nm4,  and i have only completed nimbus reach nm2, In order to play nimbus reach nm4, i have to complete nimbus reach nm3 atleast once.

Trading -
The only plausable way i can see trading being viable in dd2, is to have very high costs, A tax system,  that stops players from wanting to sell things too low and a new tier of gear above legendary, Currently Legendaries aren't exactly a rare sight, while this can be nice in some aspects, having a tier (ultra etc) that is above legendaries, or Supreme or something of similar sorts, that you can only farm very deep into Onslaught with low percentage, would make some of the more common Legendaires less desirable for any player trying to min max their gear. Which would stop players from having hundreds of legendaries up for sale, and only those perfect pieces or more exclusive tier items.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do agree at some points and I totally not agree to the 

Tie hero effectiveness to level, not by what they're wearing

This game is all about gear, not hero lvl. 

Starting from NM1 each map should have ipwr requirement so fresh 50 lvl with ipwr around 150-180 should be able to join or create a game on 1st and 2nd NM1 maps. 

If 1st and 2nd maps drops gear ipwr 230-250 then 3rd and 4th maps should have ipwr requirement around 210-230 to make sure a player spent some time playing first 2 maps and geared up. And so on and so on.

NM1 Incursion and onslaught should be available to a player only after he finishing all maps on NM1 and should provide better loot than last maps, something around first 1-4 maps if NM2. Same for NM2-3

NM4 should be more or less same iprw level loots to let ppl play that maps they like and not stick to the map with best drops even if they hate it.

NM4 incursion and onslaught should be the most difficult and rewarding content available only after completing everything else on NM4.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way to stop content jumping is to gate the higher levels. How about you need a key to open the next NM tier which is made up of four shards ( for want of a better phrase) each shard obtainable by completing a map from the current NM tier you are on.  So you at least have to complete four maps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah grind grind would be horrible just implement back even for private games a minium requirement of for example max ipwr -100 for the gear you get so if you want to join the last maps with the highest ipwr of current 840-850 you need to have atleast 750 ipwr gear to join... just simple all that have to do couple of maps is annoying and doesn't mean anything as every apporach doesn't mean anything if get carried by friends... if you make shards or somethng like that you will be carried in private only place were this might be usefull is if you don't hit the requirements for public matches...


...but really who of the "veteran-players" usually goes public matches it is most likely a closed group of people in your friendslist in endgame matches and maybe like to special event like the last days that you help random folks to get their bonus accessories ;)


my 50 cent to this discussion about gearing up... because in EVERY game there is a way to get carried and shorten the grind extremely :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First gear trading, after reading your post I think this is the simplest form of trading that could go on. Make it so that the items you are trading have to be within a certain ipwr range. So that the lvl 50 DPS squire can trade his Legendary DP DH chest piece for the Builder squire's Legendary hero damage sword. Both parties must have an item and those items must be roughly close in ipwr (better then nothing i suppose). As far as ipwr goes I think the concept was ok but the implementing was horrid.  If the system better gave ipwr based on quality it could work ie base bonus for rare epic and legendary then add for the numerical stats on the piece. This could prevent plain old gear from having a higher ipwr then epic pieces from the same map. If the ipwr gate is ever used again for anything more then a reference it would need a really good reworking to make sure the same issues didn't happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the general consensus is that we want a game that has a trading economy, that makes slowly progressing through content feel satisfying, and that allows you to spend a long time increasing the power of your character after you hit max level.   So, how do we get a game that satisfies all the design goals.


The bulk of the concern in the OP seems to be about players skipping content.  This is an easy problem to solve.  The most blunt instrument would be to simply gate content by ipwr.  My preferred solution would be to handle content the way it was handled in DD1, requiring you to beat each map on one difficulty before you are allowed to advance to the next difficulty of that map.   Of course, neither of these can completely stop you from getting carried, but I'm not sure we want a game that does that.  Different people enjoy playing the game in different ways, and I don't know that we should prevent someone from carrying their friends through the game quickly.  I think the bigger issue is not addressing the ability to skip content, but instead addressing why skipping content is so immediately and overwhelmingly rewarding.


A mythic helm that drops with defense hp on difficulty X of map Y will have the exact same defense hp as every other mythic helm that drops in that map.  This 1:1 mapping between the map, the ipwr that drops on that map, and the stat quantities on the items has several effects:

1)  Slowly progressing through content in the way that we would like players to is a long grind, and can only be a long grind.  With fixed stat quantities we know we are looking for small increases in stats when we move to the next map and that a small increase in stats is all we can possibly hope to find.  The certainty that there can never be a large reward (i.e. pulling that lever is never going to result in a jackpot) drives us to skip as far ahead in content as possible.  If instead stats where allowed to roll in a range, players might enjoy playing through content more because while they might get fewer upgrades overall they would occasionally get large, rewarding upgrades and those upgrades would always be there as a carrot.  Additionally, if stats rolled in range, the behavior of skipping ahead would no longer be reinforced with the immediate certainty of abundant upgrades.

2) It makes it harder for players that are struggling to progress through content.  If you have close to the best gear you can get from Insane, but can't break into NM1 then you are essentially forced to seek out stronger players to help you.  By allowing stats, or even ipwr, to roll in ranges then you can design content progression to be smoother. Content can be designed such that you should be successful in NM1 once you have a full set of insane gear that has 66% of the possible max stat budget from insane.  Skilled players that have reached this gear level can move on, while less skilled players can continue to farm and get closer to 100% of the item budget, making their entry into the next difficulty level easy enough to match their skill level.

3) It dramatically decreases the granularity of gear upgrades.  Did it roll the right 2 stats -> did it roll the right passive -> what is the size of the passive?  When comparing two items from the top tier of content, we only have a few binary (present vs not present) comparisons and only one magnitude comparisons.  

4) The point made in #3 also makes the trading economy much shallower than it should be.

The 1:1 mapping is exacerbated by the fact that gear has only 2 stats.  If gear could have 4 stats that rolled in ranges then we immediately make farming/trading gear a lengthier and more rewarding process, full of tradeoffs and the possibility of finding better gear even after having farmed a very long time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


I'm not a big fan of xp leveling characters to max level in any game, however I see that it is needed to limit the ammount of complete noobs at endgame who doesn't have a clue.

But I think the most important part of the progression should be at cap lvl farming for great drops.

But major changes need to be put in place  for the endgame to feel satisfying enough as it stands right now.

Legendaries  is WAAAAAY to common  in this  game. 

If you ask me you should only get a legendary about every 20-30 hours of gameplay.

Mythical should also be much more rare , and powerful/epic should be the only thing that is easy to get when you reach 50.

And to people saying that it would take forever to get a full legendary set with the right stats. You're right, just as it should be. A full legendary set should only be for people who have played for hundreds of hours.

Mythical is still good enough to do the content.

Seeing a legendary drop when it's rare is a joy, and is what makes it fun to play long survivals.

Seeing 5 legendary drops in a match is not enjoyable at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look at all this constructive discussion going on! Not a single insult or personal attack yet. Thank you guys for keeping it civil.

Can I just take a moment and emphasize this part:

@gigazelle quote:

One of the following MUST happen:

  • Level cap is raised, and level 50 arbitrarily has a range of 600 ipwr
  • Level cap is never raised, and ipwr perpetually gets bigger and bigger. Trading is never implemented because that would let players instantly skip to the end
  • Gear wipe or reroll so this mess can be properly fixed

Take your pick, my friends.

We're either going to get stuck with a 600 ipwr range when progressing through level 50 after the level cap is raised, the level cap will never be raised period, or we're going to have yet another gear reroll in the future after the one that's happening today.

If anyone has a fourth option here, I'd really like to hear it because none of those sound all that awesome to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@gigazelle quote:

Look at all this constructive discussion going on! Not a single insult or personal attack yet. Thank you guys for keeping it civil.

Can I just take a moment and emphasize this part:

@gigazelle quote:

One of the following MUST happen:

  • Level cap is raised, and level 50 arbitrarily has a range of 600 ipwr
  • Level cap is never raised, and ipwr perpetually gets bigger and bigger. Trading is never implemented because that would let players instantly skip to the end
  • Gear wipe or reroll so this mess can be properly fixed

Take your pick, my friends.

We're either going to get stuck with a 600 ipwr range when progressing through level 50 after the level cap is raised, the level cap will never be raised period, or we're going to have yet another gear reroll in the future after the one that's happening today.

If anyone has a fourth option here, I'd really like to hear it because none of those sound all that awesome to me.

Do you find a 600ipwr range less palatable than the mythic->transcendent->supreme->ultimate->ult+ etc progression from DD1?  I ask because I don't particularly find a long gear progression or the re-raising of the level cap all that bad.  Continually increasing the attainable power level lets people keep playing the game.

It also isn't clear to me that trading automatically means people get to jump right to the end.  DD1 had trading, but everyone didn't immediately get to rofl stomp the hardest content.  All you need is for good high level gear to be difficult to obtain and for currency to be desirable.  Then you don't have high power gear so plentiful that people throw it away at low level players for nothing, and you ensure that people able to obtain gear will want currency enough to demand that a low level player would have to farm a long time in order to be able to buy a high level piece.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@gigazelle quote:

Look at all this constructive discussion going on! Not a single insult or personal attack yet. Thank you guys for keeping it civil.

Can I just take a moment and emphasize this part:

@gigazelle quote:

One of the following MUST happen:

  • Level cap is raised, and level 50 arbitrarily has a range of 600 ipwr
  • Level cap is never raised, and ipwr perpetually gets bigger and bigger. Trading is never implemented because that would let players instantly skip to the end
  • Gear wipe or reroll so this mess can be properly fixed

Take your pick, my friends.

We're either going to get stuck with a 600 ipwr range when progressing through level 50 after the level cap is raised, the level cap will never be raised period, or we're going to have yet another gear reroll in the future after the one that's happening today.

If anyone has a fourth option here, I'd really like to hear it because none of those sound all that awesome to me.

Isn't is possible that they could raise the level cap to say 60 in conjunction with a new set of maps. The new maps on NM 2-4 could require a higher ipwr than current maps, with new map NM 1 dropping the new ipwr gear needed. This means no change to current NM as we know it, map wise or gear wise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 ....

 Continually increasing the attainable power level lets people keep playing the game.

.....

 All you need is for good high level gear to be difficult to obtain and for currency to be desirable.  Then you don't have high power gear so plentiful that people throw it away at low level players for nothing, and you ensure that people able to obtain gear will want currency enough to demand that a low level player would have to farm a long time in order to be able to buy a high level piece.

This

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Chappyy quote:

Isn't is possible that they could raise the level cap to say 60 in conjunction with a new set of maps. The new maps on NM 2-4 could require a higher ipwr than current maps, with new map NM 1 dropping the new ipwr gear needed. This means no change to current NM as we know it, map wise or gear wise.

They certainly could - but what would be the ipwr range of level 60 heroes then? What ipwr range would drop on these new maps? You suggesting exactly what is considered in the first bullet point, which introduces an ipwr range of 600 for a single level when all other levels have an ipwr range of about 5.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@gigazelle quote:


@Chappyy quote:

Isn't is possible that they could raise the level cap to say 60 in conjunction with a new set of maps. The new maps on NM 2-4 could require a higher ipwr than current maps, with new map NM 1 dropping the new ipwr gear needed. This means no change to current NM as we know it, map wise or gear wise.

They certainly could - but what would be the ipwr range of level 60 heroes then? What ipwr range would drop on these new maps? You suggesting exactly what is considered in the first bullet point, which introduces an ipwr range of 600 for a single level when all other levels have an ipwr range of about 5.

You still give it an ipwr range but you are setting a range you want to target the difficulty towards. Meaning you are looking at NM1-4 as a "5" level range. I guess I don't understand bullet point1. If you increase the max level you need to increase the difficulty, the gear power, as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only thing i want changed is that the gear drops is more meaningful, idc about people skipping content. Gear just needs to drop like DD 1 more greens less blues purples and legendaries all around.  Levels add nothing to he game as is I would hate to see gear xp locked like it was in DD I finally got the good piece of gear but it had a lvl 98 req, that took like 5 months to grind out. 


About your part with trading people did the same thing in DD 1 with trading as soon as nightmare came out. Crappy items were being sold for tons cause even if it had -150 tower health the 300+ boost to tower damage made it so the content you were doing was still face roll. 


The thing I mist the most from DD1 is the set bonus, just bring that back. 


Edit: At the end of the day tho they need to make it so in order to progress you need to beat every map on NM to get to the next one. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@Kevo149 quote:

The only thing i want changed is that the gear drops is more meaningful, idc about people skipping content. Gear just needs to drop like DD 1 more greens less blues purples and legendaries all around. 


@jokke1989dk quote:

Legendaries  is WAAAAAY to common  in this  game. 

Seeing 5 legendary drops in a match is not enjoyable at all.

The problem is not with the amount of legendaries that drop, it's the sheer amount of RNG options available to roll on every item, regardless of its quality. Loot quality just allows for more affixes and higher  max stats... but there are probably hundreds of combinations of stats that currently roll which make 90% of any drop absolutely useless. Before they start looking at less drops of a specific quality, they need to address the major issue which is non (current) class affixes rolling on gear and look at reducing the sheer number of possible affixes. HUge huge problem and I've noted it in several other forum posts but Diablo 3 players will remember how useless gear drops were on it's release and it forced a HUGE majority of the play base to just leave the game and they returned a year later when devs were fired and new lead dev implemented class specific stat rolls and increased "legendary" drops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the current system has an incentive to skip to nm4 and that is an unfun feeling for everyone involved.  I suggest some kind of gating mechanic like before you can do nm2 you have to do X nm1 maps or even every map like was suggested earlier.


I think trading needs to hurry up though as the current loot system is beyond trash especially for my play style.  I only play with at least one of person I know.  We split up the rolls and stuff.  I can't count how many times we bitterly joked about oh I bet you wish they implemented trading. We are only up to the later insane maps and trying to get gear to break into nm1.  They could at least do something like if you were present when it droped you can get it traded to you as a temporary stop gap until they feel item rerolls wont be happening for awhile and its safe to turn on real trading.


Comparing it to early d3 is spot on.  I quit d3 over that loot system.  I HATE getting perfect tower stats on an artifact slot but having all dps secondaries. The same goes for every hat having to have vector corrector on it for squire / app builders.


As for making legendaries more rare that would make this game worse. You should think of legendaries as just another tier color of armor. The excitement comes from finding something that isnt trash be it legendary or green.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your points against trading is the exact same thing your trying to say about maps.

Trading CAN skip filler content

skipping to nm4 CAN skip filler content.


there is literally no difference^^


And there  is nothing you can change about it unless you completly redesigned dd2 and make it not gear based.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It worked pretty good in DD1. You can't buy yourself top gear if you don't have the gold for it. It's all about gold and gear-drop-balance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im on the side for rarer Legendaries. I did make a post about it, legendaries dont feel so legendary. The way it is now everyone expects to get a legendary. It has become the norm.

I feel epic and mythical items is what we should be basing our ideal gear on. Legendary items should be a bonuses, not something we expect to get every time. I hear the argument its gonna take longer to obtain my perfect gear, but that's where trading comes into play.

I would like to see trading eventually introduced, but as pointed out it would lead to content jumping. A possible fix - Epic, mythical and legendary items tradable only?  or maybe mythical and legendary only?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@gigazelle quote:
  • At any point where there's even a slightly overtuned defense, you introduce the possibility that a build takes less players to actively maintain, thus allowing fresh level 50's to hop in a game to get some ipwr 850 gear. Considering how often overtuned defenses make it in the game, this will likely occur very frequently.

A special shout-out to serenity auras on this one! People are already in NM4 now, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the DD1 method of not allowing a level to be played at a level where you haven't played the one just easier than it.  It didn't feel the least bit intrusive in DD1, and I can't imagine it would here, either.

But then I'm one of those people who want DD2 to be DD1 with a wipe, more maps, and really cool graphic improvements. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just coming from the opposite side, I'm someone who loves the journey but doesnt need the jump.  However bug / nerf / neuter / 0 me out to the ground and leave my 3 50s with thumbs up their butts (thanks alpha 'patch' where 240- gear was safe) and yes, I'd be someone signing up for help to get back up given my legendary and mythic hearty gear is now all < 1%. 

My point?  Give people engaging stable progressiom with satisfying / fun gameplay and you won't have as many crazy for the OP.  Right now NM1 is OP - unless you've managed to become OP yourself, you're in an un-fun frustration of being undergeared (or zero'd out) and have to back up to try and proceed and survive even a couple waves into NM1. 

So.. I think some of these gating NM ideas have merit.  But if you can't add better progression, fun (challenge w/o player defense / hero roll over idiocy) better MP matchmaking etc, making players unlock/beat all NM maps will just send everyone to a better balanced and/or more enjoyable game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


@todaz quote:

Your points against trading is the exact same thing your trying to say about maps.

Trading CAN skip filler content

skipping to nm4 CAN skip filler content.


there is literally no difference^^


And there  is nothing you can change about it unless you completly redesigned dd2 and make it not gear based.

There is a difference. With trading you are skipping nm1-nm3 but you have the gear to do nm4. With the current system you are incentivized to ruin a few runs of a public nm4 game and pick up some scraps to skip to nm4.

Its like in marvel heroes before the gate to cosmic mid town. people would go stand around and make cosmic mid town unfun to both them and the people around them to get a bunch of uniques they could get elsewhere.  Thats why I suggested a gating mechanic where you have to beat certain maps to be able to go up to the next one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...