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Reasons why a wipe is inevitable.


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I play with the mindset that there is a good chance for a wipe.  It allows me to still have fun, and accept what could be inevitable.  Plus I won't get burnt out for this game.

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It amuses me how strongly the community is anti-wipe just after the wipes and then shifts towards pro-wipe once people get significantly "ahead" of them.  Whatever.


Anyway, none of the "strong" reasons for wiping seem very strong to me.

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I agree Whats it matter if player B has a ipwr 900..  If it was pvp sure but coop not really.


That goes for dailies as well.. So it was glitched for some, did that screw up the game so much that everyone should be affected? no


The passive thing though... We'll have to see if they can modify it on the fly.

@MaximumRico quote:

In my opinion that with a large enough playerbase and (at least now?) no system of trading items or currency, there isn't any huge impact of not wiping. But that's me. I don't really care if someone else has a maxxed betsy pet and every uber with ipwr 890, because it doesn't affect me. But to each their own.


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@Zuqual quote:

It amuses me how strongly the community is anti-wipe just after the wipes and then shifts towards pro-wipe once people get significantly "ahead" of them.  Whatever.


Anyway, none of the "strong" reasons for wiping seem very strong to me.

I don't think the community is shifting; I just think it's different groups of people voicing their opinion :)

And while I can see some reasons why a wipe might be neccessary, I'm more or less in agreement with you that I don't see the reasons OP gave as valid ones.

Daily quests - so some people got ahead with wyvern tokens; none of this is really game breaking, it's just given some people an unexpected bonus, which happens all the time. Twitter/Facebook/Games convention promotions, etc. Doesn't mean everyone else is stuffed up because they haven't got lucky, and doesn't require a wipe. It would be hard to argue that people getting extra quests are exploiting the game.

Transaction bugs - realistically, they should have a way of resolving this, and ultimately, even if they don't, it again doesn't break the game in any way. What it does do, is *potentially* deprive Trendy of some income (as those character slots will no longer be bought with "real" premium currency), but really they shouldn't be penalising everyone else for their mistake. If it breaks the game, sure. But a few extra character slots isn't going to break the game, and if the player can level all those characters... all power to them.

Loot issues - like legacy gear. The one thing mentioned that can break the game, although as OP points out Trendy suggests they now have the code to be able to change items, which would give them a way of solving the problem without necessitating a wipe. Ergo, no wipe necessary.

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I wouldn't mind a wipe, I just hope they let us keep the exp we got for our characters. Leveling took too long.

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I would image the possibilities for 2 wipes, one at beta and one at full F2P release.

The beta wipe would be another large game change with added content matter and they would want it tested from the beginning. 

F2P release wipe would happen so that everyone is on the same page at launch and the new players aren't just starting while all of us testers are only doing the very end game stuff.

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@Gunghoe quote:

I support a full on wipe just before open alpha, when they announce no more wipes. Because of fairness, many people aren't playing that think there will be a wipe. The pet system needs to change for premium pets. Thus asking for Premium currency wipe. They need to let us transform pets of one rarity to the premium pet of that rarity. I don't want to have to buy 1000 pets just to get a pet i want to have, which makes me want to stay away from the system. Or they could just get rid of the stat differences.


The other reason for a full wipe would be needed is because there is still issues with the stats on gear it's the gear that drops has far way to high of a chance to give you something else for a different class. it makes sense to have some gear for other classes to drop, but not every other legendary, or mythic item to have stats for other classes. Which makes me also not want to play the game as much. 


Leveling up is unbalanced and too much of a gear check. The gear check comes in way to early, acheiving level 50 should be easier than it is. And you should be ready for end game stuff at least the first tier when level 50 happens. Gear is way too underleveled compared to your level. When you do something that is level 50 you shouldn't get any gear lower than level 45, and when that happens level 45 should be far rarer than a legendary. they need to fix that. And retest the gear system to see if it's actually good.


They need to take out ubers out of the wyvern token perchases. That to me is absolutely terrible system. Rewarding that currency only once per account is ever farther of terrible. which makes me less likely to play the game till they fix it. Either by having a new quest per character, to make it worth while and or making the wyvern tokens out of the wyvern market which is a travesty. Which calls for a wipe to fix this because people spent tokens on the lame progression system you shouldn't ever progress that way. Keep only cosmetics, pets, and weapons in that shop, else the system is garbage, and Will likely not make me want to play.


there is right now too many issues that would warrant no wipe. The gear unbalance. The Progression system locked behind only one unlock. Wyvern token system is garbage. And the drops have a extremely highly likely chance do drop garbage for your character in higher difficulities, this makes there be needs for more tests and stuff. 


The dailies being bugged and in a terrible state. 


there is many other issues that when they think they fix them require a wipe.  Game length padding isn't fun. I 100% endorse a full wipe right before open alpha.

Right now there is many issues that still need to be ironed out, having a wipe, during a player testing faze is exactly what they need. Sorry I can't be blind enough to accept that burden on any one else. Just by saying hey it's GOOD doesn't mean jack when there is many glaring issues that make my playtime less fun in this game than in other games. You can get all the things in the world to make you want to come back and get rewards, but if the before that means a chore, Likely I won't play the game. Wyvern tokens, and The Premium currency in the pet system seem wonky. There is other things that seem greatly wonky. Just blindly siding with the developers in everything they do is wrong. leveling Up IS NOT ENJOYABLE anymore. The game is far too grindy. And WE NEED TO TEST IT, and get it to the point that it IS enjoyable. if leveling isn't enjoyable the game will not last long. The game that me and you payed 60+ dollars on will not become the great game we want it to be. With out ironing out the leveling and making the game enjoyable to play beginning at 1-50, the first impression of the game is muddy and convoluted and generally boring. All it has going for it right now is the 13 maps that generally make the game great, but making things overly grindy isn't what the game should be. Sure at end game it should be grindy, but right when you finish campaign it becomes that "end game" feeling but you aren't at end game it feels boring and contrived. The leveling is a mess. And you don't want them to fix it? you don't want people to test it. Generally speaking you have to just accept the way the game is, and when the game goes free to play people won't have that cost sunk fallacy that makes you think things are better than they are.

I beleive there should be a wipe, 

They need to fix the wyvern token system

they need to make the pet system more buyer friendly, than making people pay X amount of times till you get the rarity you want. They need that to be more friendly system. Not make it like cases/crates/caches or what ever because that system will make me never buy a pet, when I want one because my mythic pet will most likely be better than the stuff that comes out of it. and people have already sunk gems on this system which need to be refunded because the system is unfair and generally way to money grab centric. I can't buy into gambling, that's not for me.

 The gearing, is wonky, why would I want a level 16 piece of gear when Im level 30+ why when i am level 50 do I want level 37 and 38 legendaries?

Why is the legendary drop rate so low? you get too little. 


People shrugging off issues that need more people testing early game, when hey i got to level 50 I shouldn't have to test and give my feed back.


I am so for the developers, making them fix bad designs, is too much work so I will say it's perfectly fine.


On top of it all saying that everything is fine and dandy, and doesn't warrant a wipe is rediculus to me, being the game is about to be in alpha, and even sooner open alpha. When they are about to not have wipes in the future.


There are Issues in the game, if you ignore them, and let your playerbase ignore them will make for the games demise.

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As has been mentioned several times already in this thread, all of the things you bring up are either valid or potentially valid concerns.  As has (again) been mentioned several times, none of them warrant a wipe.

If Trendy needs to go for a wipe, then I'm all for it.  Based on the reaction of the playerbase last time around though, they'd better be able to justify it with more than "because we want to," otherwise all hell will break loose. 

I trust that Trendy has reasonable judgement as to what constitutes a need for a wipe and what doesn't.  If it comes to it, they'll pull the trigger.  Until then, I'll play as if there isn't one coming.



Also, as a friendly bit of advice - learn to use whitespace in your posts, or put a TL;DR at the end, because when confronted with that horrendous wall of text, I guarantee over half of the people will simply skip it.

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@Ryukashin quote:

F2P release wipe would happen so that everyone is on the same page at launch and the new players aren't just starting while all of us testers are only doing the very end game stuff.

They've been pretty clear from the start that there is not going to be a release wipe.

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They have said it but that doesn't mean there isn't that 1% chance they change their minds and do it anyway. Beta and release are just the two points that would make the most sense for a wipe to happen. 

Unless there are major changes in the open alpha patch, I don't see a reason for a wipe there.

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All this discussion and I'm just sitting here, unable to wrap my head about the concept of pre-alpha. Back in the day, there were only betas and full games, alphas never saw the daylight. Yet here we are, with a game in pre-alpha. And that means what exactly? That we've got 5 stages (pre-alpha, alpha, pre-beta, beta, pre-release) of waiting in store? Having flaws excused with a "it's not truly released yet?

I don't want to be the naysayer, but this state of things is worrying at least, especially with abundance of early access games that never get released.

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@Alatreon quote:

I don't want to be the naysayer, but this state of things is worrying at least, especially with abundance of early access games that never get released.

It's quite different with early access / free to play games. Most games are considered released if there are no more wipes. Alpha/beta are mostly marketing terms. I would even say more often than not an official release is bad for the game as it often means the playerbase is too small to sustain a profit for the company. The game gets quickly released and the devs can call it a day. For f2p titles you should hope they stay in open beta as long as possible.

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@Quentym quote:


@Alatreon quote:

I don't want to be the naysayer, but this state of things is worrying at least, especially with abundance of early access games that never get released.

It's quite different with early access / free to play games. Most games are considered released if there are no more wipes. Alpha/beta are mostly marketing terms. I would even say more often than not an official release is bad for the game as it often means the playerbase is too small to sustain a profit for the company. The game gets quickly released and the devs can call it a day. For f2p titles you should hope they stay in open beta as long as possible.

Just cause most companies abuse the term doesn't mean it can't be done right. But there is a point there. What is Trendy's checklist for determining what is to be done in each phase of development?

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@Kyrn quote:

Just cause most companies abuse the term doesn't mean it can't be done right. But there is a point there. What is Trendy's checklist for determining what is to be done in each phase of development?

They covered all that in the Devstream [[6072,hashtags]].

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I hope they do not wipe characters, they can wipe gear if they want to, but for all the DD games I found the process of levelling characters to be a choir rather than an enjoyable experience.  I wouldn't mind character progression in terms of levelling if it wasn't just a speed bump on the road to something more interesting and had some more meaning or significance behind it.  It is really a token thing which you can knock out in a most unenjoyable way by grinding the most efficient way possible.


Doing low difficulty maps which drop no gear of any interest just to get levels really seems counter intuitive to the whole progression system, unless that is changed I would vote no against a full wipe off the bat for that reason alone.  I just wouldn't enjoy re-levelling characters again, the levelling isn't rewarding in any way, it is just a very temporary content block.


I am not sure the daily quest or wyvern token issue is a significant one, there are pretty much only 2 ubers worth purchasing and there isn't much else to purchase either, if they want to wipe the number of tokens acquired at a point prior to introducing more content then I am fine with that, even though I think it is probably unnecessary as I doubt the problems are wide spread.


Some things currently are OP, like frost fire, but they will eventually balance it out and they will release more passives and more interesting things and there will always be new gear you will want to acquire, that natural content progression will make current gear obsolete and will force people to re-acquire gear with more balanced content.  If the game was going to be static and unchanging then there would be a compelling reason to wipe because acquiring current gear is easier due to poorly balanced abilities.


However, the game isn't going to be static, even if you have perfect 850 items now, once the current abilities and passives are balanced and new content passives and builds are created down the track then your gear acquired will always become obsolete, everything I ever acquired in DD1 became obsolete in a matter of months.  I think Trendy realise that which is why they aren't fussed too much about balance at this stage and why they have said they wont wipe unless that is what the players want.


These reasons aren't compelling enough in my opinion.  I think the natural evolution of the game and creation of new content will get rid of most of the problems created.

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