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Reasons why a wipe is inevitable.


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If you are one of those players who doesn't want your character wiped or all your hard work removed and don't enjoy testing the game for bugs, min maxing or just having fun smashing through all the content, I am sorry I have a strong feeling there may be atleast 2 more wipes and I have strong reasoning.

Reasons.

  • Daily quests: These quests are completely broken in a way that leads to a disadvantage to some and an advantage to others. You will see allot of posts saying I don't get dailys but not vice versa. This bug does not only ruin hardwork for people who want to keep tokens/ubers if there was a wipe but it also effects costumes because it comes to a point where you can't spend tokes on anything anymore and leads to mass spam of lockbox keys, ofcourse these costumes are poop but its also a way of getting "Free Currency" which could lead to a full costume wipe, making costume exp almost pointless to grind.

  • Transaction Bugs: A post not long ago showed a player able to get 5 pages of character slots, this in the form of ingame currency is not very cheap and who can be sure how many people were able to use this without coming upfront, this could lead to full character wipes.

  • Passives and builds: They all could be subject to change, Last wipe Trendy claimed to change coding to make it so they could easily change item, but since thte ballista hotfix where Hearty Harpoons was rolling on every item I had a helm & boots with the passives on it, with the hotfix came no removal of passives where they shouldn't be, fair enough its allot of work but would be nice to see if what trendy did in wipeaggedon#1 actually changed anything.


There are allot more reasons, for a wipe being inevitable these are just some of the strong reasons, If you are afraid to invest time you should be, I would be suprised if anything would be able to stay behind only thing I could think of is pets and they are probably subject to change as well. Remember this is Pre-alpha and you are here to test the game and the passives have fun with it and don't get to emotionally attatched to what you have on your account.

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A wipe or two are inevitable. It pretty much has too happen, especially before the game officially launches. Really though this is what you payed for, so just enjoy and give feedback, if you don't want to play because of more wipes, then don't. The best way to do wipes are too reward players for playing, like what they did last time and I'd bet they are doing that again

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I could be wrong but I don't think there will be wipes after "open alpha" is what they're calling it. I believe that is what I heard on the devstream yesterday. Of course, who knows when open alpha will be but Alpha starts in September unless they push it back for some reason. 


That aside, I'm totally playing under the assumption that there will be at least one more wipe. If it's a partial wipe or complete wipe of all player data, who knows. 

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The best thing would be to wipe everything except the lvl of the four chars equipped and their pets equipped. This way people who put effort in the game can at least keep sth of it.

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Lvling pets hasnt been broken to be honest its a pain in the ass for the little reward you get and lvling 4-6 chars to 50again is crap. 

PS: i think there will be only 1 wipe right before open alpha 1-2weeks before. It makes no sense to wipe everything when you want your product get tested. Then it needs an eternity for players to lvl and gear up which only results in a waste of time for the people developing the game.


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I don't mind wipes in any closed stage, be it alpha or beta. I will replay the content anyway whenever the wipe happens, because i like the game itself. 
If devs gave you lvl 50, full highest iPWR items for ALL occasions and ALL builds, all the spheres, unlimited gold, all skins that you NOW have access to unlocked and fully leveled, all pets with higher value of stats and all rarities, you would already be playing something else, having to start from scratch in some game that developers do not even listen to your complaints because they already have a stable playerbase. 

Seriously. I personally like starting from scratch when there is a reason for a wipe. Like milestone update or open access. As long as we are being awarded with gems (preferably) or at least good looking skins for our patience, support, feedback and time, effort invested.

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@H3M1V3 quote:

The best thing would be to wipe everything except the lvl of the four chars equipped and their pets equipped. This way people who put effort in the game can at least keep sth of it.

The problem is some of us have 6-12 characters. not everyone is limited to 4. aswell as the above bug. gives trendy allot of work figuring out currencys for each individual player and there hero slots etc.

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The greatest reason for a wipe occuring, imo, is a reset after core designs/elements/balancing is finished, especially with the ability to abuse extremely broken content like Frost tower stacking, etc., in order to hit max very easily. Once this is all set I believe they will bring everything in line with a full wipe, probably.

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With the daily bug and tokens I can sort of see why; however I don't really feel that it is neccessarily warranted. I mean sure, maybe someone has every uber and a betsy pet. So? I bought heavy cannon as my first uber after finishing the monthly, then I didn't get any dailies for 2 weeks. I still was able to build just fine, if someone has LSA great, if not I worked LA/blaze in. Just my opinion but if someone has everything purchasable with tokens, good for them. People that don't, well sucks but I know how it is since my dailies were broke.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me. Ubers are great and fun and SOME (qq heavy cannonball) feel uber, but just like the addition of the frostbite patch, it doesn't let me personally do anything I couldn't do before, just a bit easier. This is only coming from the NM4 view of the game though.

The currency might be a different issue as I don't know the extent it is but... as much as I want a balanced game I'd prefer not to have a full wipe. Heck, I'd be perfectly fine if they could wipe gear/currency/costumes/whatever if they could leave the 50 characters, then I'd just have to gear up again, not level up.

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I'd like unlocked costume parts/upgrades to stay and that's it. I'd be happy to do away with all my hard farmed gear for a fair fresh playthrough. Especially if things like leaderboard implementation find their way in. 

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@H3M1V3 quote:

It makes no sense to wipe everything when you want your product get tested. Then it needs an eternity for players to lvl and gear up which only results in a waste of time for the people developing the game.


Not true. With planned wipes, you can easily have players test end-game content, by simply giving players lv 50 characters or an easy way to do so. Many private test server does this, in addition to giving players easy access to the gear/content they specifically want tested. (like having a box that drops frostfire/frost power gear instead of needing players to grind them)

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I feel like there should always be a full wipe before the official release of any game. Then again, that's just me.

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In my opinion that with a large enough playerbase and (at least now?) no system of trading items or currency, there isn't any huge impact of not wiping. But that's me. I don't really care if someone else has a maxxed betsy pet and every uber with ipwr 890, because it doesn't affect me. But to each their own.

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i'd agree that in alpha staged there is no reason to wipe, since they should have the ability to modify the passives on everyones items so we can honestly test the game. There is no point in wiping any content ATM But once it closes into beta (which i consider released) there should def be a wipe.

for testing purposes during alpha re-leveling and re-gearing could be a real pain.

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Obviously a wipe is going to happen, the devs know it, the entire trendy team knows it, and so do we....

The only reason they say is there is "No planned wipe" is because there isnt, because they havent planned it yet! but they will be forced to plan one eventually the game has had too many bugs and issues and players who abuse their knowledge of these to jump ahead to end game which unbalances the game, to release a game it has to be balanced so maybe not in alpha, maybe not in beta but when this game is officially launched and is F2P for everything there will be a wipe because the amount of players who join will be 10x greater than the current amount so to make things fair they will wipe. 

You bought this game to test it and report bugs, even if you didnt know (you'd have to be stupid not to notice but there are people....) and if you "quit" because ohhh they wiped or stuff is broken.... THATS BECAUSE YOUR TESTING IT FINDING THE BUGS AND ISSUES! Fun is not the priority yet... functionality is... when everything works the way it is supposed to they will start to focus on making it more fun, more maps, more armor and weapons, more bosses, better challeneges in the game and so on.... when i payed to play this game i fully hoped to find bugs etc.. because im seeing an amazing game go from base code to a playable and amazing game! and when it reaches its official launch i can look at this game and think.... I was actually a part in making this game, a small part but i helped and now its amazing with no issues etc... 

Screw the present state of the game! I look to the future.

Rant over.

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Right now I feel very strongly against a wipe and I didn't expect that many people voicing their opinion towards a wipe either.

When I first started out back in November last year, I was expecting a wipe was gonna happen somewhere along the road, simpy because I bought into an early access pre-alpha and the game actually really felt like it was "unfinished" and as In.session said, I'm used to wipes when for example and open/closed Beta gets released.

I definately didnt expect the Wipe at that point in time and it seemed weird to me, sure there was a lot of things introduced and changed and hence justified, but the timing still felt as "too early" for me.

So after the wipe on basically every Devstream where the Wipe question was discussed, the answers were the sort of "We will try everything to avoid another wipe, we can't promise nothing but its unlikely if we can avoid it." - Or at least thats how it lingers in my brain.

While the Points OP brought up are all valid, I'd feel somewhat betrayed If another Fullwipe happened because of that.

Daily Tokens: I'm one of those guys who got many more dailies than he should have, so far I bought one Uber, that still means I have 240 Tokens lying around but I don't have anything I want to buy and who knows how many more dailies everyone is going to get (those who haven't gotten many yet especially) until there is actually enough Ubers (which I'd feel like buying) to spend the Tokens on, hell maybe they could even do an Event for everyone who has gotten less than 100 Tokens so far or something similar to let daylie-less people catch up. (how exactly this is going to happen needs some polished thinking tho!)

Transaction Bug: I bought 3 Character slots myself and reported that bug instantly.
I am very sure Trendy has a Transaction log for those situations, what I suggest is locking the character slots up again for everyone who bought them for 0 Gems (well it said -1 Gem but that was only a Visual Bug, you lost the 1 Gem you got after playing a map). If you got characters on those slots, well your problem next time don't abuse the system.

Or which I believe would be easier on Trendy's side: Lock the slots up for everyone and have everyone the amount of Gems spent on Charactler slots refunded, but instead of deleting the Characters on bought slots, they will just be greyed out until said person buys the character slot again.

The passives (Ballista): Trendy said the amount of drops for Gear with the Ballista passives that was not intended, was low. Low enough to not warrant any action. So if that is their reasoning (I'm guessing they should have the numbers ?) I can see this leading into one of two things later down the road.

a) the Rare Legacy gear becomes obnoxiously Valuable once a sort of trading is implemented.

b) the Gear gets outclassed by a higher level cap, or better gear mods that you are now going to aim for.

Case b) is definately going to happen sooner or later, the question is just when.

I have honestly no answer to Situation a) though, but I do not think that warrants a full wipe.
2 Friends of mine were talking about the legacy gear they got a few days ago, one of them had a legendary helmet with ~18% but no DP/DH/Vector on it, the other one had lotsa mythical and worse stuff which he said was so bad its not worth using.

So while this is a very small subsample, I imagine the amount of actually used legacy gear is very small and I do not think a wipe for those few is justified, it's not quite the empowered boost aura-fiasco.

Considering how close the last Wipe Vote was I'm hoping there a few more people like me who will vote against it, if the time comes, but even if it does go through I will probably play DD2 again, but a little more salty than before.

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@AJsLoneDog quote:

The only reason they say is there is "No planned wipe" is because there isnt, because they havent planned it yet!

I really hope this isn't the case. I don't mind if there ends up being another wipe, but if Trendy has decided that weaselly, technically-correct statements are how they want to deal with the community, that is something I'd quit over. They've been pretty open with issues up to this point, though, so I doubt that's what's happening.

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@AJsLoneDog quote:

 players who abuse their knowledge of these to jump ahead to end game which unbalances the game 

What are you even talking about?  This game isn't PvP, or a competition.  I guarantee that if there's a wipe, there will be a ton of players that spam their way to max gear/level in a very short period of time.

Shorter than you will.

And that's ok!  You know why?  Because their gear level IN NO WAY affects your gameplay experience.

Why does this keep coming up like it's a competition?  You can't even LOOK at other people's gear at the moment unless they post a screencap of it to the loot thread.  It doesn't "unbalance" the game if somebody is farther than you.


*Disclaimer*

I FINALLY just got my first 50 yesterday, so no - I'm not one of them, and no - it STILL doesn't bother me that they did


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I support a full on wipe just before open alpha, when they announce no more wipes. Because of fairness, many people aren't playing that think there will be a wipe. The pet system needs to change for premium pets. Thus asking for Premium currency wipe. They need to let us transform pets of one rarity to the premium pet of that rarity. I don't want to have to buy 1000 pets just to get a pet i want to have, which makes me want to stay away from the system. Or they could just get rid of the stat differences.


The other reason for a full wipe would be needed is because there is still issues with the stats on gear it's the gear that drops has far way to high of a chance to give you something else for a different class. it makes sense to have some gear for other classes to drop, but not every other legendary, or mythic item to have stats for other classes. Which makes me also not want to play the game as much. 


Leveling up is unbalanced and too much of a gear check. The gear check comes in way to early, acheiving level 50 should be easier than it is. And you should be ready for end game stuff at least the first tier when level 50 happens. Gear is way too underleveled compared to your level. When you do something that is level 50 you shouldn't get any gear lower than level 45, and when that happens level 45 should be far rarer than a legendary. they need to fix that. And retest the gear system to see if it's actually good.


They need to take out ubers out of the wyvern token perchases. That to me is absolutely terrible system. Rewarding that currency only once per account is ever farther of terrible. which makes me less likely to play the game till they fix it. Either by having a new quest per character, to make it worth while and or making the wyvern tokens out of the wyvern market which is a travesty. Which calls for a wipe to fix this because people spent tokens on the lame progression system you shouldn't ever progress that way. Keep only cosmetics, pets, and weapons in that shop, else the system is garbage, and Will likely not make me want to play.


there is right now too many issues that would warrant no wipe. The gear unbalance. The Progression system locked behind only one unlock. Wyvern token system is garbage. And the drops have a extremely highly likely chance do drop garbage for your character in higher difficulities, this makes there be needs for more tests and stuff. 


The dailies being bugged and in a terrible state. 


there is many other issues that when they think they fix them require a wipe.  Game length padding isn't fun. I 100% endorse a full wipe right before open alpha.

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@Gunghoe quote:

-snip-

Most of the things you mention here don't require a wipe.  If there's useless gear right now because it spawns both a monk passive and a squire passive, why would they wipe it?  That will filter itself out after they fix the loot tables - because the gear is worthless.  It will get vendored, or used at the wheel.

I can't even begin to untangle why it is that you think the current leveling system would warrant a wipe.  The only reason I can think of is to get us all to play through whatever fix they put in, but I don't see that anywhere in your post.

The wyvern tokens is completely your opinion, I feel that they've adequately addressed the concerns with tokens.  When my first character made it to 50, I had 63 wyvern tokens, which tells me they probably timed it pretty well.  I completed the monthly shortly thereafter, so I'm not far from being able to get one for my second character. 

On top of that, you can buy a few Ubers from the Gran Masta for gold, in case you need something to put in that slot while you work up your tokens.  Again - seems reasonable to me, but even if they change it, why would that require a wipe?

The dailies thing you threw in as an afterthought with no real reasoning, so i'll just repeat the same question.  Why in the world would them fixing the dailies warrant a wipe? 


The game, as ive said before, isn't a competition with everybody else.  There will be people with better gear than you, people who are just flat out better at building than you.  None of it actually affects you, so let it go.  If we had to schedule a wipe every time one person got farther than everyone else, we'd be wiping every 3 minutes.

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I see here only 1 realy reason - transaction bugs.But...not realy big reason.
Passives and builds...after they'll get it balanced they may just add little highter things...and don't care anymore about HOW you get your already low-ipow things.
Dailys is just time.

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@Gunghoe quote:

The other reason for a full wipe would be needed is because there is still issues with the stats on gear it's the gear that drops has far way to high of a chance to give you something else for a different class. it makes sense to have some gear for other classes to drop, but not every other legendary, or mythic item to have stats for other classes. Which makes me also not want to play the game as much. 


I can't follow you there, because we are not getting the optimal gear for the character we play, hence get less optimal drops thats a reason for a wipe? I don't get that at all, I mean everyone who wasn't around earlier is after (if) they change it gonna profit from "better" gear drops, so thats fair? 
But I agree that the gear grind right now feels very demanding, but no reason to wipe anything.


@Gunghoe quote:


@Gunghoe quote:

Leveling up is unbalanced and too much of a gear check. The gear check comes in way to early, acheiving level 50 should be easier than it is. And you should be ready for end game stuff at least the first tier when level 50 happens. Gear is way too underleveled compared to your level. When you do something that is level 50 you shouldn't get any gear lower than level 45, and when that happens level 45 should be far rarer than a legendary. they need to fix that. And retest the gear system to see if it's actually good.


Basically the same as above. New players are gonna profit from the softened gear/level up curve, its basically the same what happens to every game, making it easier for newer people to get into the game. That in itself is no reason to wipe.

The second point: retesting the gear system, I don't see a reason to wipe before the Open Alpha there either, because with the introduction of the Open Alpha a whole new bunch of players is going to test exactly that.


@Gunghoe quote:

They need to take out ubers out of the wyvern token perchases. That to me is absolutely terrible system. Rewarding that currency only once per account is ever farther of terrible. which makes me less likely to play the game till they fix it. Either by having a new quest per character, to make it worth while and or making the wyvern tokens out of the wyvern market which is a travesty. Which calls for a wipe to fix this because people spent tokens on the lame progression system you shouldn't ever progress that way. Keep only cosmetics, pets, and weapons in that shop, else the system is garbage, and Will likely not make me want to play.


Thats your opinion, I like getting something useful for the investment of doing annoying quests.
Therefore I like the system as it is right now, could use some more options in the Wyvern Tokens shop though, but those will come over time. Especially this for me is definately not a reason to wipe, but the point you make is purely opinion based so other people might have the same feeling about it and agree with you? But objectively (from Trendy's view) it should not be a reason to wipe.


@Gunghoe quote:

The dailies being bugged and in a terrible state. 


We can totally agree on that!

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You don't need a wipe to make all gear obsolete. Only a map with 10 more ipwr. Also a wipe will not help much in making things fair for new players. Hardcore players will farm the highest ipwr map after 2 days anyway. So it doesn't really matter.


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