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MaximumRico

Passive drop rate: CHALLENGE ACCEPTED![8/21 Devstream]

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First I apologize for the small population and sample sizes since well, it takes time and I only started keeping track.

To begin, each round consists of 5 games of NM4 Liferoot Incursion. I then sort the drops by passives and rinse repeat if I'm feeling sparky. Every game after building I play my Huntress to have a consistent control. 

EDIT: Added spreadsheet, it isn't pretty or particularly exciting though. Here on Google docs


Also sorry, the first round I didn't specify what classes the accessories were for individually, only x huntress y other. I haven't found any multi-class medallions yet, but I've seen them before several times. Added bow drops although I don't know if they are relevant. It could be a good comparison I guess to show what can drop specifically to huntress. I'll include the squire/app leg weapons if/when they drop.

Round 1: 

Squire: 3 armor,  1 weapon
Monk: 2 armor
App: 4 armor
Huntress: 0 armor, 4 accessory -- 33 bows
Neutral: 14 armor, 15 accessory
______________________

Total Armor: 23
Total Accessory: 19
Huntress Passives: 4 / 28

Round 2:

Squire: 4 armor, 4 accessory
Monk: 2 armor, 8 accessory
App: 3 armor, 7 accessory
Huntress: 0 armor, 4 accessory -- 32 bows
Neutral:  9 armor
______________________
Total Armor: 18
Total Accessory: 23
Huntress Passives: 4 / 32


Round 3:

Squire: 6 armor, 9 accessory
Monk: 4 armor, 11 accessory
App: 1 armor, 8 accessory
Huntress: 1 armor, 6 accessory -- 34 bows
Neutral:  15 armor
______________________
Total Armor: 27
Total Accessory: 34
Huntress Passives: 7 / 46


Round 4:

Squire: 7 armor, 11 accessory
Monk: 3 armor, 4 accessory
App: 4 armor, 5 accessory
Huntress: 0 armor, 3 accessory -- 27 bows
Neutral:  13 armor
______________________
Total Armor: 27
Total Accessory: 24
Huntress Passives: 3 / 37


Round 5: 

Squire: 4 armor, 5 accessory
Monk: 4 armor, 6 accessory
App: 5 armor, 14 accessory, 2 weapons
Huntress: 0 armor, 6 accessory -- 31 bows
Neutral: 14 armor, 15 accessory
______________________

Total Armor: 24
Total Accessory: 31
Huntress Passives: 6 / 44


Round 6: 

(this round was quite sad in drop quantity and quality)

Squire: 2 armor, 4 accessory
Monk: 3 armor, 3 accessory
App: 5 armor, 4 accessory
Huntress: 0 armor, 6 accessory -- 22 bows
Neutral: 8 armor, 2 accessory
______________________

Total Armor: 15
Total Accessory: 18
Huntress Passives: 6 / 27


Round 7: 

Squire: 3 armor, 4 accessory
Monk: 2 armor, 5 accessory
App: 7 armor, 4 accessory
Huntress: 0 armor, 5 accessory -- 24 bows
Neutral: 10 armor, 3 accessory
______________________

Total Armor: 22
Total Accessory: 21
Huntress Passives: 5 / 30


Round 8: 

Squire: 7 armor, 8 accessory
Monk: 1 armor, 5 accessory
App: 9 armor, 5 accessory
Huntress: 0 armor, 4 accessory -- 28 bows
Neutral: 16 armor, 1 accessory
______________________

Total Armor: 33
Total Accessory: 23
Huntress Passives: 4 / 39


Round 9: 

Squire: 6 armor, 5 accessory
Monk: 0 armor, 8 accessory
App: 4 armor, 6 accessory
Huntress: 3 armor, 3 accessory -- 39 bows, 11 had new passive
Neutral: 16 armor, 1 accessory
______________________

Total Armor: 28
Total Accessory: 23
Huntress Passives: 7 / 36


Round 10: 

Squire: 5 armor, 7 accessory
Monk: 2 armor, 4 accessory
App: 3 armor, 6 accessory
Huntress: 2 armor, 4 accessory -- 34 bows, 7 had new passive
Neutral: 16 armor, 2 accessory
______________________

Total Armor: 28
Total Accessory: 23
Huntress Passives: 6 / 33


Round 11: 

Squire: 10 armor, 6 accessory, 2 weapons
Monk: 1 armor, 4 accessory
App: 6 armor, 5 accessory
Huntress: 4 armor, 4 accessory -- 35 bows, 6 had new passive
Neutral: 11 armor, 5 accessory
______________________

Total Armor: 32
Total Accessory: 22
Huntress Passives: 8 / 40


Round 12: 

Squire: 6 armor, 6 accessory, 1 weapons
Monk: 3 armor, 8 accessory
App: 6 armor, 8 accessory
Huntress: 4 armor,5 accessory -- 29 bows, 3 had new passive
Neutral: 11 armor, 5 accessory
______________________

Total Armor: 33
Total Accessory: 29
Huntress Passives: 9 / 47


Of the twelve rounds (60 map plays) if we ignore the neutral armor, IE. no specific class passive, then 69 out of 439 items with class specific passives dropped for my huntress.  I would have to rewatch the stream again, but as I recall they basically said when you play x class, you should have passives for x class drop as a majority,  just like weapons for x class drop.


I can add more as I gather more data, but as I'm sure others can agree with, passives drops seem utterly random regardless of the play you play (who has been trying to get a good amped glove? heh) Although it *seems* to me from past experience monk accessories drop more often than not, but no data on that yet, just what it has felt like.


EDIT: Added round 12.

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I'd be on board with a patch that made it like weapons and you ONLY got drops depending on the defender you're playing during the time of the drop. 

(yes I know hearty harpoon sword + frost fire staff can drop no matter the active defender)


Cool testing, glad someone has the patience and resolve to do it instead of just eyeballing things lol

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@Pachipachio quote:

I'd be on board with a patch that made it like weapons and you ONLY got drops depending on the defender you're playing during the time of the drop. 

(yes I know hearty harpoon sword + frost fire staff can drop no matter the active defender)


Cool testing, glad someone has the patience and resolve to do it instead of just eyeballing things lol

Agree. I would like the drops to be more specific to the character I am playing, while still having a chance to get those special legendary items like the frost staff.

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I don't think it should drop ONLY the character's passive being played, but I do believe there should be a bias towards it and grouped stats (Channel/ Supercharge, Def stats or Hero stats, Hearty Blockade/Hero HP/Def HP, etc.) and that this bias should scale up with higher quality gear (Legendary/Mythic/etc.) though it shouldn't get too high as part of the game is RNG farming for the appropriate gear. It is ludicrous when I can run NM4 Incursion for past week and half and not once get a good Hearty Blockade item as a Squire (everyone but my Waller is completely decked out and has been since over a week ago, but the hero I have been farming for the most can't get squat).

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I'm fine with getting other class passives; however the current data is showing a 12-15% chance to drop an item with a huntress passive while playing huntress all the time. This seems incredibly low to be reasonable.

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Thank you for compiling the data. I didn't keep track of my numbers but just looking from this weekend. I received more Hearty harpoon gear than I did frosty power. (I don't have a squire)

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I'm considering adding the term "relevant" and tracking mythics/legendaries until this adjusted. When I say relevant I mean, well, at least usable for building or doing damage. I may include tanking pieces (because I named one of my bags HP/TANK when I was starting to do NM4 Incursion but now I don't need it :d) as well, but then it can come down to personal opinion or preference. Well, the other issue is the double (or triple) resist rolls really skew things :(.

For example I'd love having frosty power passives with DP/AP, so I can do damage if/when I play my mage and build frostbites. I can't really think of another build I'd want this for though. Well, it's just a thought.

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Added round 9. Drop rate is a little bit up for my huntress, but that's expected with new passive options. It still seems quite low though.

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Thanks for posting this. I just got done talking with a designer and engineer about your notes. This does seem to show there is a bug in the weight logic, great find! We just created the bug based on your notes and have someone looking at the problem this weekend. 

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[[59260,users]] according to the Devstream [[6137,hashtags]], the chance to drop active hero's item is 85-ish (?)%, so that leaves 15% for another class.
Could it be that that 15% chance applies to each different hero than your currently equipped one? Resulting in a 45% chance of dropping an item for any of the other 3 heroes.
Probably unlikely, but still a suggestion.

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@Seph quote:

TrendyBrad according to the Devstream [[6137,hashtags]], the chance to drop active hero's item is 85-ish (?)%, so that leaves 15% for another class.
Could it be that that 15% chance applies to each different hero than your currently equipped one? Resulting in a 45% chance of dropping an item for any of the other 3 heroes.
Probably unlikely, but still a suggestion.

Curious if this fudges the intended rates as well.

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@Seph quote:

TrendyBrad according to the Devstream [[6137,hashtags]], the chance to drop active hero's item is 85-ish (?)%, so that leaves 15% for another class. 
Could it be that that 15% chance applies to each different hero than your currently equipped one? Resulting in a 45% chance of dropping an item for any of the other 3 heroes. 
Probably unlikely, but still a suggestion. 

Seems like chances are simply switched. 69 out of 439 is roughly 15% for huntress drop. One odd thing I noticed though is that considerably more squire armor was dropped. 63 out of 161 w/o neutral or roughly 40%, which fits nicely with your theory. Strangely enough accessory drop is equally roughly 25% for every class. I'm not sure what exactly to make of it, but it seems only weapon drop is working more or less as intended.

MaximumRico , great job! you must be really sick of liferoot by now. :)
Can I trouble you to make google doc somehow copiable, please? Doing everything in calculator is kinda slow.

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@Xengre quote:


@Seph quote:

TrendyBrad according to the Devstream [[6137,hashtags]], the chance to drop active hero's item is 85-ish (?)%, so that leaves 15% for another class.
Could it be that that 15% chance applies to each different hero than your currently equipped one? Resulting in a 45% chance of dropping an item for any of the other 3 heroes.
Probably unlikely, but still a suggestion.

Curious if this fudges the intended rates as well.

I tried a game with only 2 Squires in my deck and was getting non squire passives.(Did not note how many or what it was)

But seemed to have zero impact.

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I noted down the class of the passive for some maps I was doing today on my Apprentice and of all the passives on the gear, 23% were for the Apprentice, 37% were for other classes and 40% were not class specific, the distribution of the neutral passives were along with other class passives and not that common items had no class passives, just non-specific ones.


With just a 23% chance of getting a passive on an item and quite often if it had one it had more than one it came down to approximately 10% of items that dropped were specific to my class, which means 90% were not applicable for the character I was playing which seems quite low.

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@PandynatorDD quote:


@Xengre quote:


@Seph quote:

TrendyBrad according to the Devstream [[6137,hashtags]], the chance to drop active hero's item is 85-ish (?)%, so that leaves 15% for another class.
Could it be that that 15% chance applies to each different hero than your currently equipped one? Resulting in a 45% chance of dropping an item for any of the other 3 heroes.
Probably unlikely, but still a suggestion.

Curious if this fudges the intended rates as well.

I tried a game with only 2 Squires in my deck and was getting non squire passives.(Did not note how many or what it was)

But seemed to have zero impact.

I believe Seph's post was along the lines of your active character (say I am on DPS Huntress) who should have higher drop rate chance and then the impact of drop rate for each other class being counted separately as small pools adding up instead of one single separate drop pool containing the other's chance of a drop.

Example:

1.) (Huntress Drop Odds) (App 15%) (Monk 15%) (Squire 15%)

vs

2.) (Huntress Drop Odds) (App/Monk/Squire 15%)

2nd route has a much smaller drop rate for dropping something non-huntress

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I saw something else interesting yesterday while playing solo that was along these lines.   Starting a map with an Apprentice and then swapping to Huntress led to more Apprentice drops despite the active hero change. 

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The stat reroll on thursday could provide people with an interesting and impossible to reproduce data set.  Namely, what the distribution of passives looks like when there is no active player.   Unfortunately, the sample size will be limited to what you can cram in your inventory.

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