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NCO

(The lack of) Nightmare XP made my Friends Quit DD2

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After the Wipeageddon:

I have restarted the DD2 with a group of friends in order to play together as a Team.
The initial Bugs were very demotivating, and while 2 of us ( including myself ) made it to lvl 50 while the other 2 took a break after completing the campain 'till the game is playable'.

With the 2 of us able to play NM 2 we often end up asking our friends to join us, but without usable loot and nearly no XP at all, they just dont feel motivated playing.

With the alternative of solo-grinding Throne room 40 times on freeplay they just stopped playing at all.


Please fix XP, a NMx map should reward at least the same XP a freeplay Map rewards.

Just Hotfix everything that is more difficult then Freeplay (Incursion/Endgame Hard/NMx ) to the XP ammount Freeplay rewards, there is no downside to this and you can decide on a balance increase later.

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All this does is enable to skip loads of content to instantly gear themselves out once they hit 50. What sense does that really make?


I really feel that there shouldn't be any exp at all dispersed in endgame maps, not just a nerfed version that we have currently. If you're running end game maps there is no reason to be wanting/ needing exp. With the xp system they have in place now you can literally go from 1-50 in less than a few hours.


They could have done liferoot instead of throne room if they actually wanted to play the game and still get good exp albeit both throne room and liferoot are stupidly broken exp wise.


Bing demotivated by bugs in an alpha is silly. There are going to be tons of bugs, They really should just come back in a year if something like that is keeping them from wanting to play.

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@Alabama quote:[...]

Yeah maybe you are right from a hardcore gamers point of view, and if your suggestions are implemented the remaining 7-9 players will probably really apreciate it.

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Why were they in nightmare maps wanting XP, again? 

If people are wanting to level there are other difficulties for leveling, not to even mention you shouldn't be in NM until 50 in the first place.

Onslaught, throne room, liferoot, etc, there are a lot of viable methods to level up. Heck I've leveled 5 characters to 50 through different means and it's more than possible. 

And to not expect bugs and stuff right now is a little silly, on their part.

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Gotta agree with Tris, First toon may take a bit to level but there is so many people farming liferoot you can almost afk just take care of your lane.  If your in my game and alot of others they wont even care if you afk and xp is like 110k Base a map.


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@Tristaris quote:

Why were they in nightmare maps wanting XP, again? 

If people are wanting to level there are other difficulties for leveling, not to even mention you shouldn't be in NM until 50 in the first place.

Onslaught, throne room, liferoot, etc, there are a lot of viable methods to level up. Heck I've leveled 5 characters to 50 through different means and it's more than possible. 

And to not expect bugs and stuff right now is a little silly, on their part.

How about 3.5M xp to evolve just 1 level of a costume. Would be nice that when you are doing NM and higher you can also earn some kind of reward in xp.

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@› Rabid Lemming quote:


@Tristaris quote:

Why were they in nightmare maps wanting XP, again? 

If people are wanting to level there are other difficulties for leveling, not to even mention you shouldn't be in NM until 50 in the first place.

Onslaught, throne room, liferoot, etc, there are a lot of viable methods to level up. Heck I've leveled 5 characters to 50 through different means and it's more than possible. 

And to not expect bugs and stuff right now is a little silly, on their part.

How about 3.5M xp to evolve just 1 level of a costume. Would be nice that when you are doing NM and higher you can also earn some kind of reward in xp.

Well yeah that should be addressed, but I was speaking more towards characters in general, and not speaking of pet, or costume XP.

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@NCO quote:


@Alabama quote:[...]

Yeah maybe you are right from a hardcore gamers point of view, and if your suggestions are implemented the remaining 7-9 players will probably really apreciate it.

You're absolutely right I am right. This isn't a complete game and if you were really a hardcore gamer (or your friends) you/they would realize that. Also to think only 7-9 people... you're just being outright silly with your attempts at sarcasm now.


I can't tell what to make of this post .. I mean you do realize how insanely simple it is to level currently, don't you?


@› Rabid Lemming quote:



How about 3.5M xp to evolve just 1 level of a costume. Would be nice that when you are doing NM and higher you can also earn some kind of reward in xp.

That's a completely different problem and what that I'm sure will get addressed down the line. The premise that you cant level friends because they cant get exp in NM is hilarious though.

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@› Rabid Lemming quote:


@Tristaris quote:

Why were they in nightmare maps wanting XP, again? 

If people are wanting to level there are other difficulties for leveling, not to even mention you shouldn't be in NM until 50 in the first place.

Onslaught, throne room, liferoot, etc, there are a lot of viable methods to level up. Heck I've leveled 5 characters to 50 through different means and it's more than possible. 

And to not expect bugs and stuff right now is a little silly, on their part.

How about 3.5M xp to evolve just 1 level of a costume. Would be nice that when you are doing NM and higher you can also earn some kind of reward in xp.

The costume XP issue in EndGame was an unfortunate oversight that we actually just talked about yesterday. It is a little tricky to fix, but we most certainly WILL be fixing this in the future. It was not the intention that costume accessories could only be leveled up effectively in Freeplay. :( 

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I think there should be the same if not more xp in endgame in general then there is in freeplay, why? Because you need to have a lvl 50 to get there so your by no means are people getting boosted by having xp there, if anything the lack of any requirements on nm content allows anyone to get lvl 50 & hop into a nm4 game skipping endgame & nm1-3 thereby being boosted. 

Having xp would simply allow somebody to play content that is for their ipwr while lvling another character & not be forced to play lower lvl content where they are not rewarded & is just a tedious grind. 

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hm...it's ok for me...like "end game mode only for 50+" "and only for loot" not exp...
And i haven't problem with leveling my alts now...it takes few hours to get anyone till 50 on onslaught...don't see here problem.
Also i helpin' to level up low-levels on hard onslaught...that's not so bad i think.
I thought it's intended o_O.

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@Alabama quote:

You're absolutely right I am right. This isn't a complete game and if you were really a hardcore gamer (or your friends) you/they would realize that. Also to think only 7-9 people... you're just being outright silly with your attempts at sarcasm now.


I can't tell what to make of this post .. I mean you do realize how insanely simple it is to level currently, don't you?



Yeah, that was sarcasm - good spot.

My point is not the difficulty to level a Char, my point is that it is not fun and not rewarding.  You cant even 'help' friends to level (slightly) faster because it is just a 100% trivial grind.

Besides the fun factor, games become a lot of their addiction potential not from the solo play, but rather from the group play and the social factor. The current XP distribution punishes group play if the lvl-spread is to big.

I am open to better suggestions, i dont want an NM4- gear set for my friends when they are 50, but i want to play with them, without having to grind freeplay. Grouping with them in Freeplay with NM2 gear is also no fun.... just alt-tab & gggggggggg ... replay map.

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@NCO quote:


@Alabama quote:

You're absolutely right I am right. This isn't a complete game and if you were really a hardcore gamer (or your friends) you/they would realize that. Also to think only 7-9 people... you're just being outright silly with your attempts at sarcasm now.


I can't tell what to make of this post .. I mean you do realize how insanely simple it is to level currently, don't you?



Yeah, that was sarcasm - good spot.

My point is not the difficulty to level a Char, my point is that it is not fun and not rewarding.  You cant even 'help' friends to level (slightly) faster because it is just a 100% trivial grind.

Besides the fun factor, games become a lot of their addiction potential not from the solo play, but rather from the group play and the social factor. The current XP distribution punishes group play if the lvl-spread is to big.

I am open to better suggestions, i dont want an NM4- gear set for my friends when they are 50, but i want to play with them, without having to grind freeplay. Grouping with them in Freeplay with NM2 gear is also no fun.... just alt-tab & gggggggggg ... replay map.

So make a character with them, or level one up to where they are at, and do maps above what you're doing and try to challenge yourselves.

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Well I completely agree with you there. I think the leveling is stupid period. I don't enjoy it at all (i've said that a few times so I am on record for hating the level grind) The only rewarding aspect currently is hitting 50 and starting the real grind of gear (which as we all know is broken depending on which patch build changes what)

But these things are all fine, this game is a serious work in progress. New patches each week. That's what we're here to do. Break things to the best of our abilities so they can do more client builds with updated fixes so that when release comes around, they'll have a seriously badass game on their hands.. and we can sit on the sideline saying to ourselves.. hell yea it's awesome, we're the ones who helped crush bug [[5975,hashtags]] and [[5976,hashtags]] which would have caused people to run on release day.

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@TrendyBrad quote:


@› Rabid Lemming quote:


@Tristaris quote:

Why were they in nightmare maps wanting XP, again? 

If people are wanting to level there are other difficulties for leveling, not to even mention you shouldn't be in NM until 50 in the first place.

Onslaught, throne room, liferoot, etc, there are a lot of viable methods to level up. Heck I've leveled 5 characters to 50 through different means and it's more than possible. 

And to not expect bugs and stuff right now is a little silly, on their part.

How about 3.5M xp to evolve just 1 level of a costume. Would be nice that when you are doing NM and higher you can also earn some kind of reward in xp.

The costume XP issue in EndGame was an unfortunate oversight that we actually just talked about yesterday. It is a little tricky to fix, but we most certainly WILL be fixing this in the future. It was not the intention that costume accessories could only be leveled up effectively in Freeplay. :( 

Not just costume xp. Pet affection gains are also based on xp gains. Not to be confused with the levels from food which also require an extreme amount after the first evolution.

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I don't believe affection is based on xp. I played End Game Onlaught Hard for several rounds and saw basically no different in affection gain when compared to when I play NM4 incursion. If/when I get around to leveling something else I'll give it a shot again, but I can't see it being that way.

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@› Rabid Lemming quote:


@Tristaris quote:

Why were they in nightmare maps wanting XP, again? 

If people are wanting to level there are other difficulties for leveling, not to even mention you shouldn't be in NM until 50 in the first place.

Onslaught, throne room, liferoot, etc, there are a lot of viable methods to level up. Heck I've leveled 5 characters to 50 through different means and it's more than possible. 

And to not expect bugs and stuff right now is a little silly, on their part.

How about 3.5M xp to evolve just 1 level of a costume. Would be nice that when you are doing NM and higher you can also earn some kind of reward in xp.

This could easily be fixed by just awarding a separate xp that will only affect costumes and does not add any xp what so ever to the character. 


@TrendyBrad quote:


@› Rabid Lemming quote:


@Tristaris quote:

Why were they in nightmare maps wanting XP, again? 

If people are wanting to level there are other difficulties for leveling, not to even mention you shouldn't be in NM until 50 in the first place.

Onslaught, throne room, liferoot, etc, there are a lot of viable methods to level up. Heck I've leveled 5 characters to 50 through different means and it's more than possible. 

And to not expect bugs and stuff right now is a little silly, on their part.

How about 3.5M xp to evolve just 1 level of a costume. Would be nice that when you are doing NM and higher you can also earn some kind of reward in xp.

The costume XP issue in EndGame was an unfortunate oversight that we actually just talked about yesterday. It is a little tricky to fix, but we most certainly WILL be fixing this in the future. It was not the intention that costume accessories could only be leveled up effectively in Freeplay. :( 

Given the topic of discussion focused mainly on the exp in nightmare and you chose to comment on the costume exp... does this mean there is no intention to change end game/nightmare exp for characters?

I mean im fine either way, hell ive got 8 lvl 50s i dont need to level anymore but just to satisfy my curiosity is nightmare/end game exp currently in a happy state for the dev team?

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     I really just don't see why people get so angry when someone suggest that the XP be equivalent to or higher on End Game compared to free play.  Or when people say well this is easy just go do this map AFK a few hundred times, or go run through onslaught hard ect. ect. on freeplay.  There really isn't a difference between that or running alts/friends through Endgame (which the maps are the exact same) to help speed up xp gains, as it is a harder difficulty, there should be a higher reward in XP. I mean I'm just trying to see the logic behind why people seem to be fighting the upping of xp in endgame mode (not just nightmare difficulties). The having to be level 50 to host/start that mode should have nothing to do with the amount of XP rewarded.  

@Tristaris quote:

Why were they in nightmare maps wanting XP, again? 

If people are wanting to level there are other difficulties for leveling, not to even mention you shouldn't be in NM until 50 in the first place.

Onslaught, throne room, liferoot, etc, there are a lot of viable methods to level up. Heck I've leveled 5 characters to 50 through different means and it's more than possible. 

    It should be up to the individual on how they should level. If they want to skip playing through some of the content and just join a friend in freeplay hard when they first start, that should be their choice. If they want to join their friends in Endgame Nightmare 4, again, that should be their choice. 

    Also, when people use the "recreate with them, or try doing higher difficulties than you can now for more of a challenge" I don't see how that applies to the xp issue on endgame/ higher difficulties. That is again, trying to force players to play a certain way, taking away their choice on the leveling process. 

      My 2 cents.


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You went through the game content and are at the point where u playing the hardest difficulties known in the game. A Key-Feature of the game is to not only have 1 character but many others to have success in this game. Where is the point in returning to easy difficulties with useless drop (at this point noone needs that freeplay drops lel) and grinding the *** out of it. 
Tell me any mmorpg (massive-multiplayer-online-roleplay-game) or what this genre is called where u return back to the first map where you began your adventure and grind the very first monsters to get xp, because the devs aren't able to implement more xp on later maps or smth.

Why do you even discussing about things like the xp or smth. (message to the devs).
Every person who opens the dd2 forum needs like 5 min. to find the main problems people have with the game.
-xp -bugs -bad gameplay -...   and for some points your player-base have not the feeling that you will fix it

There are plenty of threads where people quit the game, because they don't like how you develop it / work on it. I really really love Dungeon Defenders but with time, I feel like others to quit it.

Just think about what people tell you or this game will die like it's little brother DDE died :( 

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Make it like Rift. They have exp for lvling and planar exp for the planar attunement. 2 different kinds of exp. in free play let costume exp be as high as lvlexp. Remove the little amount of exp from endgame completly and add in costume exp that starts at the same amount in endgame as it is in free play insane and go up to the double amount in NM IV. Make the spheres influence costume exp as well, but raise the exp bonus limit from 145% for lvlexp to 215% for costume  exp. 2 different types of exp would fix all balance issues regarding this theme.

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This way even exp spheres have a use. Before you had.

3*35%+2*20%=145%

4*35%=140%

For costume exp it would be

5*35%+2*20%=215%

6*35%=210%

It wouldnt influence lvlexp but it would benefit people for lvling up more chars and/or use exp spheres. What do you think about 2 different types of exp for this game?

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I currently have a level 50 huntress, level 42 monk and level 37 squire.  I'm thinking about all the hours I need to mindlessly grind XP for the monk and the squire in order to equip gear that lets me attempt nightmare maps, and I find that I just don't have the will to do it.  God forbid if I'd need to level an apprentice as well.  So I've mostly put the game on hold for now.  I'm playing a map every now and then to clear my dailies and accumulate wyvern tokens so I can buy ubers at some point, but the game just doesn't offer anything interesting for me at the moment.

Gearing = progress.

Progress = fun.

XP = gating.

Gating = boring.

Please add XP to endgame maps so I can make progress while gaining meaningful amounts of XP.  Or at least fix the curve so we don't hit the end of progress on free play at level 35 and still have another 15 levels to go before endgame.

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you can lvl your alts rlly fast adding exp to endgame is crap. you can farm items with your main as well which you can equip on your alts so you can jump to 400-800 iPWR after hitting 50 instant anyway without the Need to grind that. i srsly dont get why you always complain about lvling. its fast and gets faster with every 50 you have.

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It may be relatively fast compared to many other games, but it still feels like a chore.  I can get a little over one level per map, and playing one map takes about 20 minutes.  That's about 5-7 hours of boredom to get my remaining levels.  I can't even work on any of my other projects on the side since the game needs my attention every few minutes to start the next wave.

If I have to spend 5-7 hours doing something that's not fun, I'll rather do something productive.  Cleaning my house gives me the satisfaction of having a clean house afterwards.  Or I could do work that I get paid for and which is actually more interesting than grinding XP.

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