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NM4 - Incursion No LSA Video


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I forgot where it was, but someone mentioned wanting to see NM4 done without any LSA, and while it isn't anything special, here you go. I'd venture to say you could even incorporate Earthshatter as well.

Even decided to use my gimped apprentices frost towers as well!



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@MaximumRico quote:

I had a group that did it with no LSA a couple days ago too xD. Regular lightning auras, traps, balloons, and AA.

Oh I know, I had just saw someone say "I'd like to see it done with no LSA" (Like it was impossible or something?)

Figured well, why not lol

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Thanks for the vid. As I play mostly solo I tend to focus too much on my own map setups, and sometimes get stuck trying something suboptimal, so it helps to watch how others do it.

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@TheCrimsonTea quote:

Thanks for the vid. As I play mostly solo I tend to focus too much on my own map setups, and sometimes get stuck trying something suboptimal, so it helps to watch how others do it.

Thanks for the reply! Hopefully there's some good changes coming up that'll help you solo guys out as things can be pretty brutal by yourself if you're not geared great on everything for the content.

It's great with how defenses are now though, there's a lot that can be done and even more coming in the future from the way it seems they are taking it and it's really exciting.

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@grimmwold quote:

So how many remakes did it take you to get both phys resists on the lower lanes, and why do you require 3 squires?

? We didn't remake it at all. We build split lane middle all of the time, and I'd venture to say it's probably even easier then. 

We don't require 3 squires, either. AP Huntress can hold sides more than efficient. In fact I'd say squire isn't necessary at all, but you'd have to have 2 people cover mid then. 

Squire isn't necessary. AP huntress can hold a lane solo with decent build. Split or double mid changes nothing for difficulty. An AP huntress can mostly clear an entire lane of mobs with one piercing shot outside of hefty HP enemies.

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AP Huntress is also fully capable of holding mid double lane on her own as well, if they have Stickynades and decent resistances (around 1'500 of each is sufficient with around 3K HP). No Squire is needed whatsoever at this current time, but that's strictly because of the lack of high HP bosses. Even then I'd wager players can repair faster than barricades can fall at their current preposterous HP.

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Great work Trist, thanks for the contribution!

I'm definitely a fan of what gets the job done regardless of what is perceived to be optimal based on limited experiences.  I appreciate corrections based on experience, but we've all run into that occasional jaded defender also. (^^

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Yep, agreed [[90428,users]]. 

Maybe, just maybe those on the squires were there because they wanted to get gear for their squires? That may come as a shocker to some, but not everyone I game with sits on their squires. 

Do NM4 incursion just fine with apprentice, double huntress, and a monk. Squire is nice, sure, but it's not necessary

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@Tristaris quote:

Yep, agreed saintone

Maybe, just maybe those on the squires were there because they wanted to get gear for their squires? That may come as a shocker to some, but not everyone I game with sits on their squires. 

Do NM4 incursion just fine with apprentice, double huntress, and a monk. Squire is nice, sure, but it's not necessary

Would like to see some done without spike blockade. :P

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@Kyrn quote:


@Tristaris quote:

Yep, agreed saintone

Maybe, just maybe those on the squires were there because they wanted to get gear for their squires? That may come as a shocker to some, but not everyone I game with sits on their squires. 

Do NM4 incursion just fine with apprentice, double huntress, and a monk. Squire is nice, sure, but it's not necessary

Would like to see some done without spike blockade. :P

To be fair you can just use Training Dummies and it'd work equally fine, if that satisfies your requirement (edit: I understand your implications vs. the Squire not being necessary). skeleton.png

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With enough HP, training dummy is more than viable. With decent gear they have pretty decent health pools, anyway. 

I'd venture to say I would take you up on your offer [[16155,users]] next hotfix, and just sit two or three frost towers down per lane and make clever use of defenses for the attack speed/power buff and see how it handles lanes ;).


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@Tristaris quote:

With enough HP, training dummy is more than viable. With decent gear they have pretty decent health pools, anyway. 

I'd venture to say I would take you up on your offer Kyrn next hotfix, and just sit two or three frost towers down per lane and make clever use of defenses for the attack speed/power buff and see how it handles lanes ;).


Admittedly to be fair, it's mostly because arcane blockades are inherently flawed, though I'd note that double-layering them USUALLY is sufficient for preventing the knockback from messing you up.

Separately, could a tower HP-based harpoon work well enough as a wall, since you're stacking tower HP for attackspeed anyway?

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@Kyrn quote:


@Tristaris quote:

With enough HP, training dummy is more than viable. With decent gear they have pretty decent health pools, anyway. 

I'd venture to say I would take you up on your offer Kyrn next hotfix, and just sit two or three frost towers down per lane and make clever use of defenses for the attack speed/power buff and see how it handles lanes ;).


Admittedly to be fair, it's mostly because arcane blockades are inherently flawed, though I'd note that double-layering them USUALLY is sufficient for preventing the knockback from messing you up.

Separately, could a tower HP-based harpoon work well enough as a wall, since you're stacking tower HP for attackspeed anyway?

No, they would die from kobalds kinda fast, and they don't have an aggro mechanic.

With a squire in front of the harpoons tanking most of the mobs, they harpoon seemed to have enough hp when we didnt have walls though, because only a few mobs ever made it past the tank squire. so they kinda work?

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@Tristaris quote:

With enough HP, training dummy is more than viable. With decent gear they have pretty decent health pools, anyway. 

I'd venture to say I would take you up on your offer Kyrn next hotfix, and just sit two or three frost towers down per lane and make clever use of defenses for the attack speed/power buff and see how it handles lanes ;).


lol, training dummy viable... plz prove it. and don't use a tank squire to protect them. GL

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@vSyNd1c4t3 quote:


@Kyrn quote:


@Tristaris quote:

With enough HP, training dummy is more than viable. With decent gear they have pretty decent health pools, anyway. 

I'd venture to say I would take you up on your offer Kyrn next hotfix, and just sit two or three frost towers down per lane and make clever use of defenses for the attack speed/power buff and see how it handles lanes ;).


Admittedly to be fair, it's mostly because arcane blockades are inherently flawed, though I'd note that double-layering them USUALLY is sufficient for preventing the knockback from messing you up.

Separately, could a tower HP-based harpoon work well enough as a wall, since you're stacking tower HP for attackspeed anyway?

No, they would die from kobalds kinda fast, and they don't have an aggro mechanic.

With a squire in front of the harpoons tanking most of the mobs, they harpoon seemed to have enough hp when we didnt have walls though, because only a few mobs ever made it past the tank squire. so they kinda work?

Was wondering if panic fire could get them firing even faster...

Also, don't normal towers get aggro anyway?

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With splody passive not killing the ballistic itself when the mobs do reach reach it, I could see it working.

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@vSyNd1c4t3 quote:


@Tristaris quote:

With enough HP, training dummy is more than viable. With decent gear they have pretty decent health pools, anyway. 

I'd venture to say I would take you up on your offer Kyrn next hotfix, and just sit two or three frost towers down per lane and make clever use of defenses for the attack speed/power buff and see how it handles lanes ;).


lol, training dummy viable... plz prove it. and don't use a tank squire to protect them. GL

If you hadn't looked at them since the update, they have somewhat decent HP pools. It's not great, but an upgraded dummy isn't going to be demolished by a couple of kobolds. 

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>Been grinding NM4 for *weeks.*

>Makes video saying it's easy with that gear.


Nice work brah. Point proven.

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@Kelebek quote:

>Been grinding NM4 for *weeks.*

>Makes video saying it's easy with that gear.


Nice work brah. Point proven.

"Brah" we didn't have any issues when we were progressing. 

In fact, we progressed from NM1-4 in the span of a couple of days. Good job on assuming it takes "weeks" for it to be easy? *golfclap* That made me laugh.

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@Tristaris quote:


@vSyNd1c4t3 quote:


@Tristaris quote:

With enough HP, training dummy is more than viable. With decent gear they have pretty decent health pools, anyway. 

I'd venture to say I would take you up on your offer Kyrn next hotfix, and just sit two or three frost towers down per lane and make clever use of defenses for the attack speed/power buff and see how it handles lanes ;).


lol, training dummy viable... plz prove it. and don't use a tank squire to protect them. GL

If you hadn't looked at them since the update, they have somewhat decent HP pools. It's not great, but an upgraded dummy isn't going to be demolished by a couple of kobolds. 

Lets compare DPS, HP, and DU cost of Spike Blockade and Training Dummy.

I'm going to use my current stats.


DU/Mana cost

Training Dummy 20

Spike Blockade 30

So to get an exact comparison I will be comparing 3 Training Dummies vs 2 Spike Blockades.

2x Fully Upgraded Spike Blockade mana cost = (30 + 50 + 100 + 150 + 200) x2 = 1060

3x Fully Upgraded Training Dummy mana cost = (20 + 50 + 100 + 150 + 200) x 3 = 1560

Which cost less to build? Spike Blockade


HP

Spike Blockades have 144k HP at T1 x2 = 288k HP to absorb from enemy damage.

Training Dummy 59k HP at T1 x 3 = 177k HP to absorb from enemy damage.

Spike Blockades have 288k at T5 x2 = 576k HP to absorb from enemy damage.

Training Dummy 119k HP at T5 x 3 = 357k HP to absorb from enemy damage.

Which has a better HP Pool? Spike Blockade


DPS (Well if the HP is worse, then the DPS must be better, to balance it right?)w

Paper DPS on the Spike Blockade T1 = 256 x 2 = 512

Paper DPS on the Training Dummy T1 = Fully Spun 343 x 3 = 1029

Paper DPS on the Spike Blockade T5 = 961x 2 = 1922

Paper DPS on the Training Dummy T5 = Fully Spun 1029 x 3 = 3087

Which has higher DPS? Training Dummy

(We won't talk about the upgrades you can do to the Blockade to make it do... yea, you know.)

------------------------------

In what world, does anyone choose the Dummy over the Blockade?

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Can NM4 be done without LSA and with NM3 gears?

I mean, you can't just say you can do NM4 with NM4 gears, where did the first NM4 gear come from?

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