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Sweetwarlock

The Current Problem with Premium Pets

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@Gunghoe quote:

or they could just get rid of the stat differences between qualities.

They might as well then get rid of qualities themselves.

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@ChromeMinion quote:

I have the ninja cat and when I evolved it, it didn't change. Just says that i need to get it to level 25 now. Any idea what had happened?

Pretty sure the appearance never changes for the first evolution.

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They exist. In my opinion, its premium for a reason. If you don't want to gamble you don't have to. The only different in rarity that I notice is the pet stats (DPS) anyway and that's meh. With trendy choosing DD2 to not be P2W. They need some way to make consistence money and so the chance system for premium eggs is the right choice here.

r1lao6.jpg

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@MrCrave quote:

They exist. In my opinion, its premium for a reason. If you don't want to gamble you don't have to. The only different that I notice is the pet stats (DPS) anyway and that's meh. With trendy choosing DD2 to not be P2W. They need some way to make consistence money and so the chance system for premium eggs is the right choice here.

I cannot agree more. There HAS to be some kind of slot machine somewhere to make money.

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I definitely agree that Trendy needs a consistent source of monetization, with the game being free-to-play. However, I think they already have some decent systems in place that aren't frustrating or alienating to players. There are multiple costumes that cost up to $12 in premium currency, and tons of players are more than willing to spend that. There are also paid systems for more hero slots and for additional visual accessories.

I think they could have a more consistent stream of money if premium pets worked in some other way. If Trendy wants to keep the slot machine, no worries, but I know quite a few players that I've talked to who won't even touch it. So, I guess it's just a trade-off.

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My considerations:

Intro:

1) there is a feedback thread in feedback forums covering premium pets;

2) it was said in last dev stream that they are thinking about a way to change the current system, probably making it possible to "transform" pets rarities.

Topic:

3) I liked some of the suggestions here, specially: a) you buy the skin and have a chance of having it from an egg; b) remove pet rarity.

4) My previous suggestions: make it possible to reskin a pet (place 2 pets in the blender, one gets quality/stats from the other, the other vanishes); make it possible to upgrade pets quality (put the pet you want to upgrade in the blender, 2 pets of the quality just above it - the 2 pets vanishes, the other is upgraded); switch stats/qualities (simpla and plain resking: you get the pet with the stats you want and the pet with the skin you want and put both in the blender; they switch skins - like Marvel Heroes costume afixes); you upgrade the pet, not the egg; eggs can have rarity; you have a chance to get an item that is used to upgrade pet quality (maybe even as part of onslaught pet rewards).

Favorite:

5) I really liked the idea of unlocking the pet skin for a chance of getting in eggs.

Final thoughts:

6) as it is, it is already p2w: you have a chance for a legendary pet in a normal egg that you usually only get in golden eggs.

7) After release, I transformed a few eggs. After I saw how it works, I gave up. I'm the kind off guy that spends a nice ammount of money in games, but I'm really not fond of gambling boxes. Will buy the costumes, accessories, tower skins, weapon and whatever is not locked in gambling boxes. When/if things start to be in gambling boxes, I'll just stop spending money and probably move to another game.


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sidebar perhaps but how about stats on Grumpy??  

really odd we get this unique pet that will never ever ever get played

I didn't bother given that, but I've also heard those upgrading him don't get an ability

so um.. thanks for the mythic grumpy / inventory placeholder?

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@Underlander quote:
6) as it is, it is already p2w: you have a chance for a legendary pet in a normal egg that you usually only get in golden eggs.
What?
@CKaz quote:

sidebar perhaps but how about stats on Grumpy??  

really odd we get this unique pet that will never ever ever get played

I didn't bother given that, but I've also heard those upgrading him don't get an ability

so um.. thanks for the mythic grumpy / inventory placeholder?

Grumpy does have an ability.

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^ I've seen too many post that they've evolved him and the ability is bugged

- With no stats, who's evolving him / is it worth that anyway, if it is working?

[I'm sure not]

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@CKaz quote:

^ I've seen too many post that they've evolved him and the ability is bugged

- With no stats, who's evolving him / is it worth that anyway, if it is working?

[I'm sure not]

It's not worth to evolve it. You can't even show off to others because it does not have different evolutions... It's garbage.

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@Underlander quote:

6) as it is, it is already p2w: you have a chance for a legendary pet in a normal egg that you usually only get in golden eggs.

Huh? It has been stated several times that the only way to get those skins is by buying them in the store, and that they are purely cosmetic. They aren't guaranteed to be of a higher rarity, stats aren't better, they simply look different. Also, there is no way to get the golden skins without farming for the golden eggs.

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I_Pass_Butter.   You written it down on paper or back of your hand ;) J/ks


[[64169,users]]

2) it was said in last dev stream that they are thinking about a way to change the current system, probably making it possible to "transform" pets rarities. 

I beleive what was mentioned in the dev stream was they would think of changing the pets so they all had a chance of becoming legendary pets as some users liked the smaller guys who are only powerful or epic.


In regards to who mentioned buying the skin and chance of hatching , At first I really liked the idea, But then eventually If you buy a bunch of premium pets the RNG is gonna but discustingly bad. Right now not so much as we only have 3 Premiums.

Maybe to add on the idea , For everyone Premium you purchase for X amount of time until you buy another you have a chance to hatch it.  So i Buy Katkarot now I only have a chance of that premium hatching until i purchase another, If user buys ninja cat and then wants katkarrot again , gotta repurchase Kat.    


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The current system is fine, providing a way to upgrade pet rarity is added. 

What baffles me is the amount of time Trendy has invested designing pets and their evolution's only to have the smallest handful be useful. If i was inclined to use a Growl as my main pet I'm stuck with powerful rarity stats which sucks. Pets should be about visual preference not i'll use this one because its legendary and has more stats. Is there any particular reason why all rarities are not available to every pet?

Collectors aiming to get one of each pet currently don't have enough space to do so. The best premium pet system in the world wont mean a thing if we have no inventory space to buy them. It would be really nice if you could increase the pet bag capacity or add an additional bag as a temporary fix until a better system can hopefully be implemented.

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Hope to hear about changes soon. Also please, add more pet inventory space.

@I_PASS_BUTTER quote:

Hi Defenders! 

Thank you to everyone in this thread for posting awesome feedback! We've written it all down and will be discussing this internally. 


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The idea of unlocking the possibility of hatching the pet is the best I think. And it would be good if the monthly quest (and other special pets) works the same way. So you can have other rolls of that same pet. Even if the Gatoku seems to be legendary only ?


And a tweak on the power/feed pet system would be good too, it's way too tedious compared to the extreme quantity of eggs dropped (so absurd, what PETA is doing anyway ? lol).

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Hey Sweetwarlock,


Thanks for taking the time to write this post. Sorry I couldn't get to it sooner but as you can imagine there is a lot we are trying to work on ATM. So PETS! Gosh we've made so many variations and iterations on the pet system since we first launched it. Believe me when I say there were about 6 or 7 different versions of the pet system before we even launched the Pets & Dragons patch (one version even had some pets turning into Defenses!).


So you might be wondering what is taking us so long to get this right? Well honestly, as you are well aware, we are always super careful when it comes to anything monetized in DD2. DD2 will be a Free to Play game which means we at Trendy have to balance two things:


1. No pay to win features - we've talked enough about this that you all know our stance here.

2. We need to make sure we keep the lights on as we continue to develop DD2 because at the end of the day, Trendy is inhabited by real people with real lives and dependencies and as much as we'd like to pretend we are mighty demigods without a care in the world, the truth is we are human, too.


It is a very delicate balance trying to make sure people are super well engaged with the pet system, are having fun using it, and at the same time we don’t violate our monetization goals of staying away from P2W mechanics.


That said, we are currently working on some more iterations to the pet system. I can't fully disclose what we have planned yet, but we'll be running some experiments and asking you all how you feel about things. If it goes well, then we'll probably update the pet system yet again.


Pets are also exceptionally tricky because they aren't just a piece of loot. Players approach pets differently. You want to pick the pet whose visuals you like and use that pet. We did consider a skinning system for pets but allowing you to transform a max level pet to any mesh you want might causes you to interact with the pet system only once and reskin the pet however many times you would like. This isn't how we want players interacting with the pet system. Ideally we want you to collect multiple pets and different versions of pets. If you get a powerful, epic, or mythical pet, we want you to feel excited because even though it isn’t a Legendary, there are some things you need Powerful, Epic, and Mythic pets for.


I hope that sheds some light on the challenges of working with the pet system. What would it take to make you happy to see a powerful, epic, and mythical pet while hatching a premium egg?


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@Blacksmith quote:there are some things you need Powerful, Epic, and Mythic pets for.

I hope that sheds some light on the challenges of working with the pet system. What would it take to make you happy to see a powerful, epic, and mythical pet while hatching a premium egg?


Idk what things we need different rarity pets for... unless there are secrets abound!


Something that'd make me excited to see powerful/epic is if there were something different about them, functionally, besides their DPS guaranteed to be lower.  Idk if you guys are completely sold on that aspect of it, but that immediately turns off people to the lower rarity pets.  I don't think different ability pools depending on rarity would help - some are pretty sought after and it would totally invalidate certain rarities if one had something like the curse aura, blue mana full regen, or hp full heal abilities


Maybe if I could mush my powerful premium pets together for an epic.. and epic together for a mythical, and mythicals together for a legendary!.. then I'd be excited to roll a powerful, and then promptly mash it together with the others.

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@Blacksmith quote:

1. No pay to win features - we've talked enough about this that you all know our stance here.


Ensure value for paying players.  It seems that a game is either P2W, or P4P(Punished For Paying).  Randomly giving out poor quality pets seems dishonest and unethical.

You're basically saying "Pay 20 times until you get a legendary".  This is not cool, and I think even less of you for that stance than an openly P2W game.

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Personally I can't think of many ideas that would make me desire a lesser rarity pet. The closest thing I could think of was having some kind of slider that made lesser rarity pets do more damage but give less hero stats... and legendary pets doing the inverse of that. 

I honestly have a little bit of a dislike for the rarity system regarding pets at this moment. I find it hard to get attached to a powerful pet that I know I'll replace when I get to more serious content. What I think would help would be to remove the rarity system all together... and in it's place replace it with a new system. 

I think instead of a rarity system that goes Good --> Better ---> Best, I'd prefer something that made each pet feel... valuable. So instead of rarities you could have pet types. Something like a "Strong" pet would be more powerful itself and do decent damage for a pet but give really low stats to the hero. "Helpful" Pets could be the inverse of that and give bonuses to heroes but be extremely weak in it's own attacks. (I'd also personally make strong pets considerably powerful so that helpful pets wouldn't just be the, "Best pick" over them). You could have traits that make the pets have stronger abilities... Helpful pets could have abilities that can heal the user while strong pets might do something like stun once in a while. 

You could have "Greedy" pets that help you find gold and possibly better loot(?). "Protective" pets that instead of attacking occasionally heal the owner. Pets that boost towers. Pets that provide a double jump or make you move faster. Pets that become defenses. It's really only limited by your imagination. 

I think this would make people happy when they got a different kind of pet. For Katkarot for instance you could have a list of things it could roll. Powerful, Fast (Movement speed), Defensive (Turn into a stable defense for X seconds and gain attack power yada yada). So it would have three (Possibly more) of the things it could become. Hell with this system you could have branching advancement paths for pets while leveling. But that's getting ahead of myself. Point is no matter what you rolled it would be unique and it wouldn't strictly be, "Worse than something else you could have gotten."

I mostly like this idea because as it stands pets are cute little things but I don't think of them much. I often forget mine has an ability and it's very often not worth remembering. If there were an array of pets with quirky abilities It'd start to remind me of some of the pets that I loved in the first Dungeon Defenders. 

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First of all, Trendy, I really appreciate yall taking the time to read all our feedback and take it to heart.

The system that Paranoia mentioned in the post above sounds absolutely awesome. You could use this to differentiate the pets visually... perhaps the little guys might not have very strong attacks, but they have stronger buffs. Maybe the big buff looking pets could have stronger attacks and smaller buffs.

Whether you get rid of the rarity system, change it, or something else... I love Paranoia's idea. Right now, pets are almost useless... they're cute, and fun to level up, but their usefulness in actual play is quite small. This would be an awesome way to have them add to combat, and have the choice of pet be meaningful, without one pet being clearly better than another.

@Paranoia quote:

I think instead of a rarity system that goes Good --> Better ---> Best, I'd prefer something that made each pet feel... valuable. So instead of rarities you could have pet types. Something like a "Strong" pet would be more powerful itself and do decent damage for a pet but give really low stats to the hero. "Helpful" Pets could be the inverse of that and give bonuses to heroes but be extremely weak in it's own attacks. (I'd also personally make strong pets considerably powerful so that helpful pets wouldn't just be the, "Best pick" over them). You could have traits that make the pets have stronger abilities... Helpful pets could have abilities that can heal the user while strong pets might do something like stun once in a while. 

You could have "Greedy" pets that help you find gold and possibly better loot(?). "Protective" pets that instead of attacking occasionally heal the owner. Pets that boost towers. Pets that provide a double jump or make you move faster. Pets that become defenses. It's really only limited by your imagination. 


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