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[Early Access] Hotfix 5.13


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*comes in hoping to see good news about the Empower item stat bug*

*doesn't see anything about Empower*

*weeps softly*

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A few things:

1) The items were only in rotation for 24 hours, and are not necessarily "overpowered" anymore than their intended locations, it just doesn't fit with the schema of what we want to do with builds. If we truly find out that people got overpowered items in a way unexpected, we'll resolve it


2) We make sure to post a warning at least 30 minutes before a patch goes live that tells everyone the servers will go down. This message displays to you in-game, and in the launcher. Maybe the messaging isn't loud enough, but we try to give plenty of warning. I am truly sorry you lost something right when the patch went live


3) As a fun side note, we may have fixed the Tower Targeting issue, and you may see this in a Hotfix early next week ;)



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@TrendyBrad quote:

A few things:

1) The items were only in rotation for 24 hours, and are not necessarily "overpowered" anymore than their intended locations, it just doesn't fit with the schema of what we want to do with builds. If we truly find out that people got overpowered items in a way unexpected, we'll resolve it

For earlier game these items were definitely overpowered and probably still will be regardless of being on less items. You guys can't keep focusing purely on endgame or early game or mid game, you need to focus on the whole game when doing these things. Also need to take into account when you guys give this same treatment to other towers, not only will the game be flooded with way too many passives it will make the game ridiculously easy, and doing what you did in the first game and just buffing enemies or giving them bs abilities isn't the way to deal with it. These passives along with most of the ones in the game prior are too strong, especially early on since there is no cap on it, a trashy freeplay easy drop can have the exact same passive bonus as a nightmare drop. Again, it may balance out in absolute endgame content but anything prior to that these passives are way too strong. As a mater of fact, the splody harpoon passive shouldn't be a passive at all, it should be an uber.

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@Finaldeath quote:


@TrendyBrad quote:

A few things:

1) The items were only in rotation for 24 hours, and are not necessarily "overpowered" anymore than their intended locations, it just doesn't fit with the schema of what we want to do with builds. If we truly find out that people got overpowered items in a way unexpected, we'll resolve it

For earlier game these items were definitely overpowered and probably still will be regardless of being on less items. You guys can't keep focusing purely on endgame or early game or mid game, you need to focus on the whole game when doing these things. Also need to take into account when you guys give this same treatment to other towers, not only will the game be flooded with way too many passives it will make the game ridiculously easy, and doing what you did in the first game and just buffing enemies or giving them bs abilities isn't the way to deal with it. These passives along with most of the ones in the game prior are too strong, especially early on since there is no cap on it, a trashy freeplay easy drop can have the exact same passive bonus as a nightmare drop. Again, it may balance out in absolute endgame content but anything prior to that these passives are way too strong. As a mater of fact, the splody harpoon passive shouldn't be a passive at all, it should be an uber.

Finaldeath - we're actually putting effort into scaling these passives across all game modes, and our focus is actually pretty even across the board right now. The stats scale from earlier drops (based on IPwer) to later drops

That said, we don't expect to make the same bug again in the future. It was a simple bug that was easily fixed, and a bug that we often don't cause when adding loot. :)

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@Finaldeath quote:


@TrendyBrad quote:

As of right now, we have no intention of wiping stats. The few people who received items before the hotfix that weren't intended for the special stat aren't really at too high an advantage: there is a max tower speed increase for the ballista so it can't go faster than 1 second, which Mokn commented on before, and we did intend players to reach that cap with higher-end gear based on the roll. 

While we intended the passive for specific slots, we're not too concerned about those who got an item they shouldn't. You'll find higher level gear as you progress, or other stat combos that work as intended, that will be more interesting and powerful in the long run, and this will be more one of those "I was around then" type items. 

Wipe all the gear with it. Do not turn this into dd1 again where something is ridiculously overpowered and even after fixing it you don't bother taking that gear out of the game. At the very least remove these passives off existing gear. Your reasoning for not wiping them is the same reason they gave in the first game and look how that mess turned out.

I wouldn't call it "ridiculously overpowered". They also shouldn't take out the gear, nor do they need to. All they would have to do is raise the level cap to 75, and bam, all of the gear we've farmed is basically garbage due to the immense scaling and ramp of iPWR in its current state. The game isn't magically going to turn into EZ mode because some people have 1.00s Ballista's. If anything, at least they are now being used, unlike most projectile towers due to various bugs and targeting problems (especially in later game modes). I was able to get mine down to 1.13s with fairly trash gear drops and I wasn't too impressed. Either way, it's fine, and there are many others ways they can do "wipes" or "soft wipes" without having to remove this specific set of gear with these passives. I'd imagine the devs have a better understanding about the direction and overall vision they want to move the game and meta's towards so I honestly would try not to act like the sky is falling due to a non-issue. 

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@Erox333 quote:


@Kleeborp quote:

haha sure thing bud happened to me too! ;)  and if your that angry over a game. take anger management. and if your upset about the wipe and "wasted 400 hrs" don't play until the game is live.



If waisting a couple of hundred hours doesnt bother u, you've got some serious issues. i have no clue why ud even say anything, i didnt  attack you or anyone. I was frustrated and needed to blow off some steam. I really cant say what id like to or it would get deleted. 

Games are nothing but waste dude but there fun (if it isn't fun you shouldn't be doing it), and going off half ***ed here pistols aimed at trendy isn't overly fair, they cannot really respond in just, but they gave you notice the servers where going offline (pretty much the same time now daily) for game improvements. I just find it stupid when people *** for game improvements but when the improvements are put in place IE servers down/updates. you complain as well for the inconvenience of it all. It is Alpha and no one is twisting your arm to be here, either be constructive or leave. and if blowing off steam is going on the internet and crapping on people that's pretty weak.


  "I applaud you guys for trolling me so hard. Whoever thought up the 2 hour temp bag thing should have thier head examined" is an attack as you previously stated you didn't attack anyone. If you made a comment explaining that with the downtime and the existing 2 hour item bag it makes it literally impossible to get your stuff, is it possible to extend this timer, or as you suggested (which is a good suggestion) to start the timer either when logged back on, or only count when logged in. But the manner in which you "blew off steam" just basically voided off a good constructive comment. I want a better community for DD2 all around and that is why i made a comment, i have every right to do so as you did, like i said you actually had a good comment mixed in that muck.


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@Aesthetic quote:


@Finaldeath quote:


@TrendyBrad quote:

As of right now, we have no intention of wiping stats. The few people who received items before the hotfix that weren't intended for the special stat aren't really at too high an advantage: there is a max tower speed increase for the ballista so it can't go faster than 1 second, which Mokn commented on before, and we did intend players to reach that cap with higher-end gear based on the roll. 

While we intended the passive for specific slots, we're not too concerned about those who got an item they shouldn't. You'll find higher level gear as you progress, or other stat combos that work as intended, that will be more interesting and powerful in the long run, and this will be more one of those "I was around then" type items. 

Wipe all the gear with it. Do not turn this into dd1 again where something is ridiculously overpowered and even after fixing it you don't bother taking that gear out of the game. At the very least remove these passives off existing gear. Your reasoning for not wiping them is the same reason they gave in the first game and look how that mess turned out.

I wouldn't call it "ridiculously overpowered". They also shouldn't take out the gear, nor do they need to. All they would have to do is raise the level cap to 75, and bam, all of the gear we've farmed is basically garbage due to the immense scaling and ramp of iPWR in its current state. The game isn't magically going to turn into EZ mode because some people have 1.00s Ballista's. If anything, at least they are now being used, unlike most projectile towers due to various bugs and targeting problems (especially in later game modes). I was able to get mine down to 1.13s with fairly trash gear drops and I wasn't too impressed. Either way, it's fine, and there are many others ways they can do "wipes" or "soft wipes" without having to remove this specific set of gear with these passives. I'd imagine the devs have a better understanding about the direction and overall vision they want to move the game and meta's towards so I honestly would try not to act like the sky is falling due to a non-issue. 

When it makes one of the worst defenses in the game the most powerful in one fell swoop it is op.  Harpoons now shoot faster, do splash dmg as good if not better than fireballs, pierce enemies and do even more splash for every enemy it hits then on top of that you add the oil sphere and it oils every enemy making them 40% slower and deal 40% less damage as well. So basically harpoons are now one of the fastest shooting towers in the game and make both the boost and frost just a waste of du. To add more salt on the wound they add a sphere that gives harpoons 20% more range, this clears up an extra sphere slot instead of using 2 10% spheres, normally this wouldn't be an issue however when combined with the other massive buffs to the harpoon the cannonball was made useless so the downside of the sphere only working on the harpoon is hardly a downside at all.

All of the passives and new spheres by themselves are not that bad, but when combined they are way too powerful and replace several towers while being the exact same price it was. At the absolute bare minimum the splody harpoon passive needs to be made into an uber and increase the du cost of the harpoon.

I understand they have a direction and vision for the game and that is great, but doing massive buffs to a single tower in a single update and not touching any others is a terrible way to do things. There is no possible way to properly balance this when they make it as powerful at it is, until every single tower gets this kind of treatment there is no possible way to properly balance this so why bother adding it now?

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@Finaldeath quote:


@Aesthetic quote:


@Finaldeath quote:


@TrendyBrad quote:

As of right now, we have no intention of wiping stats. The few people who received items before the hotfix that weren't intended for the special stat aren't really at too high an advantage: there is a max tower speed increase for the ballista so it can't go faster than 1 second, which Mokn commented on before, and we did intend players to reach that cap with higher-end gear based on the roll. 

While we intended the passive for specific slots, we're not too concerned about those who got an item they shouldn't. You'll find higher level gear as you progress, or other stat combos that work as intended, that will be more interesting and powerful in the long run, and this will be more one of those "I was around then" type items. 

Wipe all the gear with it. Do not turn this into dd1 again where something is ridiculously overpowered and even after fixing it you don't bother taking that gear out of the game. At the very least remove these passives off existing gear. Your reasoning for not wiping them is the same reason they gave in the first game and look how that mess turned out.

I wouldn't call it "ridiculously overpowered". They also shouldn't take out the gear, nor do they need to. All they would have to do is raise the level cap to 75, and bam, all of the gear we've farmed is basically garbage due to the immense scaling and ramp of iPWR in its current state. The game isn't magically going to turn into EZ mode because some people have 1.00s Ballista's. If anything, at least they are now being used, unlike most projectile towers due to various bugs and targeting problems (especially in later game modes). I was able to get mine down to 1.13s with fairly trash gear drops and I wasn't too impressed. Either way, it's fine, and there are many others ways they can do "wipes" or "soft wipes" without having to remove this specific set of gear with these passives. I'd imagine the devs have a better understanding about the direction and overall vision they want to move the game and meta's towards so I honestly would try not to act like the sky is falling due to a non-issue. 

When it makes one of the worst defenses in the game the most powerful in one fell swoop it is op.  Harpoons now shoot faster, do splash dmg as good if not better than fireballs, pierce enemies and do even more splash for every enemy it hits then on top of that you add the oil sphere and it oils every enemy making them 40% slower and deal 40% less damage as well. So basically harpoons are now one of the fastest shooting towers in the game and make both the boost and frost just a waste of du. To add more salt on the wound they add a sphere that gives harpoons 20% more range, this clears up an extra sphere slot instead of using 2 10% spheres, normally this wouldn't be an issue however when combined with the other massive buffs to the harpoon the cannonball was made useless so the downside of the sphere only working on the harpoon is hardly a downside at all.

All of the passives and new spheres by themselves are not that bad, but when combined they are way too powerful and replace several towers while being the exact same price it was. At the absolute bare minimum the splody harpoon passive needs to be made into an uber and increase the du cost of the harpoon.

Watch the latest devstream currently live at the moment where Blacksmith talks about "Builds" and it'll all make sense. 

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@Aesthetic quote:



Watch the latest devstream currently live at the moment where Blacksmith talks about "Builds" and it'll all make sense. 

I watch them after the fact on youtube because i don't like going into them in the middle.


Also i apologize for being so ranty about this whole thing but i love this game and don't want it to turn into the same broken unbalanced mess the first game was because of hasty changes like this.

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I heard them say on a stream recently that they were talking about a way to fix the issue where people were farming 800+ gear first weekend before they changed endgame loot, how do they do it without penalizing legit players ?! .... do they artificially introduce a major gear fault that legitimizes a full gear wipe across the board? ...

Dun Dun Duuuuuuuun, conspiracy!?! (I stress that this is only a joke!, but on a real note, lets see what happens with gear in general in the coming months).

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there will be another wipe before launch for sure, so in the end it won't matter :)

@davros989 quote:

I heard them say on a stream recently that they were talking about a way to fix the issue where people were farming 800+ gear first weekend before they changed endgame loot, how do they do it without penalizing legit players ?! .... do they artificially introduce a major gear fault that legitimizes a full gear wipe across the board? ...

Dun Dun Duuuuuuuun, conspiracy!?! (I stress that this is only a joke!, but on a real note, lets see what happens with gear in general in the coming months).


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@Kleeborp quote:

there will be another wipe before launch for sure, so in the end it won't matter :)

Whilst I am not disagreeing, if they full wipe again they will lose a chunk of players (particularly the endgame players who have put in a great deal of time, some like myself several times over during the past couple of years and wipes), they will need to be very careful and selective about it because there's only so many times people are willing to start over from scratch because they choose to revise their systems, regardless of how much those changes are for the better.

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just wipe the gear if you want to deal with those players.
no one forced them to grind their life in pre-alfa 24/7 you know.
also why trendy havent done the same thing as in dd1 where the first wave goes without loot?
i mean you already have some experience in dd games why dont you use it?
P5ura0b.png

new legendary stats that make hero health buff your spoons
hero health hype :)

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@Ryvius quote:


also why trendy havent done the same thing as in dd1 where the first wave goes without loot?
i mean you already have some experience in dd games why dont you use it?


Watch the dev stream, the loot fixes will likely go in to effect next week so no loot first wave, but then remaining waves have all mobs drop loot again

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@Ryvius quote:

no one forced them to grind their life in pre-alfa 24/7 you know.

Of course, each to their own and people know the risks with the pre alpha label. My one and only issue is ... its been 'pre-alpha' and pay to play for the better part of a couple of years, at what point is it safe to start grinding and feeling that their invested time is safe?

Not arguing with anyone, all points of view are valid and people play games in different ways for different reasons.

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@davros989 quote:


@Ryvius quote:

no one forced them to grind their life in pre-alfa 24/7 you know.

Of course, each to their own and people know the risks with the pre alpha label. My one and only issue is ... its been 'pre-alpha' and pay to play for the better part of a couple of years, at what point is it safe to start grinding and feeling that their invested time is safe?

Not arguing with anyone, all points of view are valid and people play games in different ways for different reasons.

When it is no longer marked as early access.

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Trendy has never nor will they ever do a rollback.  Its sad, because this would be the easiest fix.

@TrendyBrad quote:

A few things:

1) The items were only in rotation for 24 hours, and are not necessarily "overpowered" anymore than their intended locations, it just doesn't fit with the schema of what we want to do with builds. If we truly find out that people got overpowered items in a way unexpected, we'll resolve it

 Most "Dungeoneers" strive to become the best in the game.  It may be the best barricades, cannonballs, LSA, or even highest DPS.   Although the items you claim are not enough to "Overpower" anyone, it gives them an advantage on everyone else.  


I was trying to have the biggest and most amazing barricades in the game, however, since i wasn't on during the time were the items where dropping.  There is no way i can have the best barricades, period.  No matter what I do, it wont happened.  This drastically discourages me.  I'm sure alot of kind folk out there will be in a similar situation.


My hopes are you save the server on a daily basis and roll back.  

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hola just a quick question incase others have suffered the same issue but i have oticed my game looking like it doesnt update or hasnt recieved any changes, the last change i noticed was the ipwr lower for difficulties and the pet evolve and shellium shards but nothing else, ive read thru all the hotfixes and about 90% of the fixes havent applied to my game at all my dailies are still bugged or atleast havent changed since full wipe and all these new 5.12 passives and such havent been included and i havent noticed them. any thoughts as to why this is happening to me please note ive done a validate and also a full reinstall and nothing

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Is anyone else, who has updated to Windows 10, had issues with the game? The playerverse and load screen pop up but most of the time it has been impossible to enter a social tavern, then equally difficult to start a match, private or otherwise.

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@petticrew quote:


I was trying to have the biggest and most amazing barricades in the game, however, since i wasn't on during the time were the items where dropping.  There is no way i can have the best barricades, period.  No matter what I do, it wont happened.  This drastically discourages me.  I'm sure alot of kind folk out there will be in a similar situation.



That is wrong.

Every single geartype that was able to spawn block hp can still spawn it (Shields, Helmets, Chests, Gloves, Boots and Totems)

I farmed like all the time before the hotfix, there was no Sword with Block HP and everything else is still available.

What you did miss out on (but you don't seem to care about) are Hearty Harpoon spawns on Helmets, Chests, Gloves and Boots (and maybe shields tho I haven't seen any).

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@MaJean quote:


@FuNiOnZ quote:

1 sec cap? Boooooo. I wanted my gatling gun ballista back :(

I second that motion.

They could just make a build that allows gatling harpoons with reduced firing arc and perhaps slightly reduced damage, could even be a neat uber. This would also be a great thing for physical aa.

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I think it all boils down to the inability to manipulate tower stats as you please, like in DD1. I know the balancing issues are because they introduced the combo system. The combos are ruining the fun, because all of a sudden they have to balance everything and give us slow towers, so we don´t have another monk lightning aura geyser trap that just stuns mobs forever untill they die. Get rid of combos and give us machine gun towers!

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