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Does developers care about end game players?


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Let's I talk a little bit of my point of view from the last wipe.

First of all, he progression is not good after campaign. There is little exp in free play which encourages people to grind Betsy easy campaign. Because if u play Free play hard or incursion, it would be take you years to level 50. That's the main reason why people grind to 50 to unlock Endgame content. (The exp is now adjusted but still have something lack there). 

Secondly, I don't know about exploiters which lead to Trendy make only boss or special enemies/mini boss drop loots in Endgame. In my opinion, the word 'exploit' is a humiliating word. Tell me that what is wrong with grind some mobs to get loots in the first game if this is not a bug? I admit it is not a good way to play a game and it is not your expectation. But this is clearly not a bug, it is a system that consistent across all map. So why people do that? In my opinion, it is a short cut to achieve higher difficulty in a short period of time. But my main point here is you should never call them as 'exploiter' if that is not a bug. If things are not work like what you want, you should admit your fault in stead of blame others which is easier way.

Thirdly, look at end game now. There is two popular map that people tend to play. First is Liferoot onslaught nm4. Thanks to developers make drop only for special boss without any further thought. There are many rounds that third round didn't have any mob. If you play 3 round ons with 3 horde rounds and no boss/special enemies, I wonder if u want to play anymore? Second map is the highest map now: Liferoot incursion nm4. Only 1 boss in round 2 with around 15-16k hp that drop loot. So tell me if u want to play if majority of people and developers call you as exploiters when what you do is kill this boss then restart. (Obviously this boss with low hp is a bug, so you can call people as exploiter with better reason right?)

So what maps end game players can play now? Forgotten ruins with Chrome enemies which can consider at harder than Life root incursion with worse loot?. (I even not sure if there is any bugs with this map). And how long these bugs have lasted? I think it will last until the end of this monk because there is no response to these bugs from developers.  Yep I know it's a pre-alpha but I feel there is too lack concern for endgame contents.


Sorry for a wall of words and my bad English. But this is my opinion. A person who do not dare to play incursion nm4 much because I don't want to be called as exploiters.

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They haven't looked at or balanced end game yet, they're still going through mountains of bugs and issues with the game, ones at the end are just taking less priority it seems. The game isn't near release, this is what happens. Just stop playing for a few months and then come back to it and see what's changed.


This is why we need another wipe for release though, just allowing people to keep all their gear from NM4 Incursion from bosses with 15K HP is insane. People will have absolutely nothing to do at release, already being done with the game.

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@Kelebek quote:

They haven't looked at or balanced end game yet, they're still going through mountains of bugs and issues with the game, ones at the end are just taking less priority it seems.


This is why we need another wipe for release though, just allowing people to keep all their gear from NM4 Incursion from bosses with 15K HP is insane. People will have absolutely nothing to do at release, already being done with the game.

You do know by release they will probably raise the level cap again, thus making any gear now, worthless.


I really doubt we'll be using this same gear at release.

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@Kelebek quote:This is why we need another wipe for release though, just allowing people to keep all their gear from NM4 Incursion from bosses with 15K HP is insane.

So bad reason.... Most party there can easily stay there all waves and all bosses (even not bugged). But guess what? There's No loot from them. Only from 1st one and chest.

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@ngoctienvt quote:

First of all, he progression is not good after campaign. There is little exp in free play which encourages people to grind Betsy easy campaign.

When did you write this post??? That's long fixed...

Betsy campaign doesn't give much exp anymore and freeplay exp is heavily boosted.

lolthread.

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@Quentym quote:


@ngoctienvt quote:

First of all, he progression is not good after campaign. There is little exp in free play which encourages people to grind Betsy easy campaign.

When did you write this post??? That's long fixed...

Betsy campaign doesn't give much exp anymore and freeplay exp is heavily boosted.

lolthread.

Did you see what I write in bracket or u intend to ignore it? I said I wrote my thought from last wipe. And the exp is not prepare beforehand as well as the lack of progression make people grind to 50 which leads to many people in end game already. 

And now what? After many people in end game already, there was restriction loot in end game, no boss in onslaught, no loot from boss? 

Laugh at u can if u don't even understand my point.

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The developers are not magic :) It took a while to balance freeplay, and it will take a while to balance nightmare, it WILL happen, give it time, It's alpha.

Even the experience might get a massive overhaul, and without trading and pvp, a couple of people being ahead really doesn't matter that much.

I've taken a little break the past 3 days and will simply continue when i feel like it or the next balance pass comes up, don't take it to seriously, It's a heavily tested alpha, rough things will be patched in, I'm sure we'll see better proof checking of new content once the game is out.

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To me, it doesn't seem like they are focused on end game that much at all after the wipe, hell, even before the wipe.

I am guessing that they have at least a few extra chapters/levels/bosses to throw in, along with the storyline.  The exp curve and maps flow pretty well up until you beat Betsy, then its gaps galore.  I am guessing that they have something else in mind to bridge the gap between lvl 25 fresh out of the campaign to lvl 50 end game, they just haven't had time to implement it yet.

With that added, the climb to 50 would be easier, gearing to 50 would be easier, and gearing at 50 would be easier.

It seems like they are nailing down one thing at a time, and after the wipe and revamp, that to me seems like the 1-25 campaign experience, which seems great.  Now after they get this down pat, scaling where they want, it would be easier to implement the rest of the games scaling in both exp/gear wise.  Once they start implementing other levels, more storyline/campaign, I think the whole gap and everything will be fixed, and then they can focus on end game.

We are talking about an end game in a pre-alpha game.  I don't care how long it has been in pre-alpha, how many revamps it had, they still have to establish a baseline in order to build from.  They cannot have an end game without a middle game, and right now, they lack both.

That is, unless they release it this way and people have to farm maps from 25-50 and painfully climb the ilvl ladder, which I VERY highly doubt.

This is all my speculation of course, so feel free to flame, go hardcore gamer on me and what not, I can take it :)


EDIT:  If they go all willy nilly and implement stuff after this wipe without a crapton of testing, it will lead to exploits, glitches, and out of control characters being able to solo any content they place in front of them because they cheated or exploited their way to ilvl1500.  They are taking their time and making sure no one gets grossly overpowered, so people cannot simply walk through content.  That's probably why you only get loot from bosses "end game" right now, so only the die harders actually experience gearing up, then evidently complain.


Give them time, this is not yet a full game :)


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@Cerial Ciller quote:

To me, it doesn't seem like they are focused on end game that much at all after the wipe, hell, even before the wipe.

I am guessing that they have at least a few extra chapters/levels/bosses to throw in, along with the storyline.  The exp curve and maps flow pretty well up until you beat Betsy, then its gaps galore.  I am guessing that they have something else in mind to bridge the gap between lvl 25 fresh out of the campaign to lvl 50 end game, they just haven't had time to implement it yet.

With that added, the climb to 50 would be easier, gearing to 50 would be easier, and gearing at 50 would be easier.

It seems like they are nailing down one thing at a time, and after the wipe and revamp, that to me seems like the 1-25 campaign experience.  Once they start implementing other levels, more storyline/campaign, I think the whole gap and everything will be fixed, and then they can focus on end game.

We are talking about an end game in a pre-alpha game.  I don't care how long it has been in pre-alpha, how many revamps it had, they still have to establish a baseline in order to build from.  They cannot have an end game without a middle game, and right now, they lack both.

That is, unless they release it this way and people have to farm maps from 25-50 and painfully climb the ilvl ladder, which I VERY highly doubt.

This is all my speculation of course, so feel free to flame, go hardcore gamer on me and what not, I can take it :)


From the dev log, they stated that they are working for transition from Free play to End game. Although this is a good thing, I feel that they underestimate the development after the wipe. Wipe need to be prepare carefully. At the moment, I believe that most of people already grind to 50, so there will be not much people behind to play again to test their progression. 
With me, I don't care how long they prepare for their content, I just want them to care more the experience of players. They wipe everything and only prepare the early game. With me, it's a bad decision. They can hold on it and at least prepare mid game, then release it would be better. Pre-alpha does not means that they can do everything with careless decision.

In the current state now, I expect another wipe will come... because of people already jump straight to end game. 

I talk about end game here because this is where most people are...

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Hi Defenders, 

Thank you all for the feedback! i appreciate the fact that the XP progression in the end game seems a little bit forced right now. Please keep in mind that we are currently working on refining the core gameplay experience and ironing out as many bugs as possible. This will allow us to fill in the gaps in the XP curve with new content on the way to F2P. 

We care very deeply about all of our players, and implore you all to be patient with us. We have a plan, and are sticking to it as best we can with the finite resources and time that are available to us. Your feedback as the most experienced and skilled DD2 players is invaluable. Please keep the constructive criticism coming!


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@ngoctienvt quote:

With me, I don't care how long they prepare for their content, I just want them to care more the experience of players. They wipe everything and only prepare the early game. With me, it's a bad decision.

They can never get a game even close to release if they don't worry about all parts of it equally.  They can not effectively implement an end game without a beginning and middle, and there is no middle, so therefore, no end.

I know it's a problem for those wanting to play this game 24/7, hell, I do want to play every minute I am home, but i have other games on my list to play while Trendy sorts out the middle and create an end.

Is it a bad decision?  Could be, but that seems like how they are building the game.  I see potential, and I am onboard with however they try and handle it from here on out.  I can wait patiently for a close to flawless game, as I know I will sink hundreds of hours (more) into it after it is fully released.

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@I_PASS_BUTTER quote:

Hi Defenders, 

Thank you all for the feedback! i appreciate the fact that the XP progression in the end game seems a little bit forced right now. Please keep in mind that we are currently working on refining the core gameplay experience and ironing out as many bugs as possible. This will allow us to fill in the gaps in the XP curve with new content on the way to F2P. 

We care very deeply about all of our players, and implore you all to be patient with us. We have a plan, and are sticking to it as best we can with the finite resources and time that are available to us. Your feedback as the most experienced and skilled DD2 players is invaluable. Please keep the constructive criticism coming!


Thanks for your reply. I'm very appreciate your answer. At the moment, I just hope that fixing boss no drop loots, the better way to drop loots in end game should somehow in priority to keep people playing instead of waiting too long. At least grinding like Ramparts before also good enough I think. 
I'm quite sure that many people are tired of killing the first boss then restart game. 

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I don't like the fact that only bosses drop loot. Leveling and progressing I wish some larger mobs would drop loot as well. But lesser quality loot. Legendary and high end loot should still come from bosses.

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