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mokn

The price of upgrading items seems wrong.

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The first upgrade combining 5 items which gets about 10 levels cost 250 gold, the second spin cost 18,000 gold.

My level 4 legendary item for the second spin is 20,000 gold to gain 3 levels. The item has 40 upgrade levels, did they play the game and test how many weeks it'd take to max out an item you'll replace soon anyway.

Fix the prices.

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The price is per item you are fusing. The amount of the price increases for every level you upgrade. It needs to be like this or the gold we get is meaningless as we will have more than we could ever spend. It isnt worth fully fusing an item that will be easily replaced but those cheap early fusions are definitely worth it. It is a good system if you take a wider view of things.

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I don't think we're meant to fully upgrade our badass legendaries in the first couple of days, and it's there to slow down the progression, and to take gold out of the economy.

Prices are high, but I understand their reasoning.

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Its a gold sink, the exp it takes to level the item goes up aswell; so it takes more items (or higher level items).

It works quite well imo since you can make a legendary much more powerful than a comparable mythic/epic; don't bother with more than 5 levels (or at all) if you're items are less than 200 ipwr.

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@ngoctienvt quote:

If onslaught have good money.. then it's reasonable... but now it seems like too much...

You are less than a week into a patch. I don't think you're meant to cap out in that short amount of time.

It's fine.

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@Tristaris quote:


@ngoctienvt quote:

If onslaught have good money.. then it's reasonable... but now it seems like too much...

You are less than a week into a patch. I don't think you're meant to cap out in that short amount of time.

It's fine.

It's good to slow progress. But how come currency in onslaught even lower than an egg? And it should be reasonable to amount of money that you can find and upgrade. 

If you mean it's fine and nothing need to be change, then I have no more thing to say. 

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LOL i've now leveled items to 18/52. 

The current price to upgrade is 50k for one 5 item spin, which gains 2 levels and each time the experience needed to level goes up. Even if the exp rate didn't go up it'd cost 850k to get maximum level.

The actual cost is millions to get it to max, I have 4 50's and only 800k gold.

Like i said these numbers are way off.

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@mokn quote:

LOL i've now leveled items to 18/52. 

The current price to upgrade is 50k for one 5 item spin, which gains 2 levels and each time the experience needed to level goes up. Even if the exp rate didn't go up it'd cost 850k to get maximum level.

The actual cost is millions to get it to max, I have 4 50's and only 800k gold.

Like i said these numbers are way off.

That or it's meant as a LONG term goal. (long in the sense of over the course of months)

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@Kyrn quote:
@mokn quote:

LOL i've now leveled items to 18/52. 

The current price to upgrade is 50k for one 5 item spin, which gains 2 levels and each time the experience needed to level goes up. Even if the exp rate didn't go up it'd cost 850k to get maximum level.

The actual cost is millions to get it to max, I have 4 50's and only 800k gold.

Like i said these numbers are way off.

That or it's meant as a LONG term goal. (long in the sense of over the course of months)

Not in a game like this, loot comes and goes too quickly, It's untested, it's like the hardest map in the game having a boss with 20k hp, wtf is that. Do they test the game or what?

NM1 is harder than nm4 progression wise and even with full gear nm1 is harder than nm4 life root incursion.

The leveling for pets is also horrible after level 20, if i can't kill the pet and get the exp back why would i bother changing my pet skin, this will hurt the sales of paid pet skins.


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Let's put it this way; it's another way of grinding iPwr if you can't manage to beat the maps to get gear upgrades. You only upgrade the gear enough to beat the next map to get better gear, BUT you've the option to grind the items for more power if you can't manage said maps with unlevelled gear.

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/facepalm, as much as this is an "ideal" gold dump, it's radically flawed since it will solely be aimed at  trying to max upgrade your "best in slot item" ... multiplied by xx characters.

I ask you now, how is that even enjoying the game if you can't feel any progression of becoming more powerful from 1-49 or even when you are 50 and need those extra pushes to reach to the higher limits of your gear potential.


imho, gold dumps are ideal for consumable items, pet foods, costume exp potions (yes crazy idea), Shop vendor items to help while leveling, etc. I also agree with gold dumps into Armor and Weapon with a more reasonable value to max upgrade your items. Currently how it's set up, might as well just remove "upgrade" items until level 50 legendary items if the trend seems to be aimed towards this direction.


I'm not convinced that this system is working as intended since the progression thus far is from going from 0 to hero without anything in between :( with that meaning here's a lovely flow chart:

1) loot an item

2) wait for the next best item -- OR  -- Skip to Step (4)

3) rinse and repeat, back to Step (1) -- OR -- Directly proceed to Step (4)

4) find a ... wait for it ... Legendary !!

5) celebrate!! PARTY!!

6) spend minutes to hours in deep contemplation ... (perhaps even meditate) ... Monk <3

7) upgrade item, first fuse gold dump, profit!!

8)(a) wait for better item, back to Step (1)

8)(b) maybe just maybe, upgrade item one or two more times, depending on cash flow :)

9) Go back to Step (1)


I feel the system needs tweaking and yes I understand this is Pre-Alpha :)

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@nuzo quote:

/facepalm, as much as this is an "ideal" gold dump, it's radically flawed since it will solely be aimed at  trying to max upgrade your "best in slot item" ... multiplied by xx characters.

I ask you now, how is that even enjoying the game if you can't feel any progression of becoming more powerful from 1-49 or even when you are 50 and need those extra pushes to reach to the higher limits of your gear potential.


imho, gold dumps are ideal for consumable items, pet foods, costume exp potions (yes crazy idea), Shop vendor items to help while leveling, etc. I also agree with gold dumps into Armor and Weapon with a more reasonable value to max upgrade your items. Currently how it's set up, might as well just remove "upgrade" items until level 50 legendary items if the trend seems to be aimed towards this direction.


I'm not convinced that this system is working as intended since the progression thus far is from going from 0 to hero without anything in between :( with that meaning here's a lovely flow chart:

1) loot an item

2) wait for the next best item OR Skip to Step (4)

3) rinse and repeat, back to Step (1) OR until Step (4)

4) find a legendary

5) celebrate!! PARTY!!

6) spend minutes to hours in deep contemplation ... (perhaps even meditate) ... Monk <3

7) upgrade item first fuse, profit!!

8)(a) wait for better item, back to Step (1)

8)(b) maybe just maybe, upgrade item one or two more times, depending on cash flow :)

9) Go back to Step (1)


I feel the system needs tweaking and yes I understand this is Pre-Alpha :)

Personally, I don't see an issue with this sort of progression. Mind if you explain what your issue is with it?

(don't forget that before lv 50, items have far less levels, so it isn't exorbitantly expensive to max them)

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@Tristaris quote:


@ngoctienvt quote:

If onslaught have good money.. then it's reasonable... but now it seems like too much...

You are less than a week into a patch. I don't think you're meant to cap out in that short amount of time.

It's fine.

That's right. Remember how long it took to upgrade gear in DD1? Accessories took forever unless you had hoards of mana or coal to trade for mana. Armor took a ton of mana as well. Pets took a lot of mana or exp. It takes time to max out. Some forget that and want everything to happen overnight it seems like.

I think it's actually pretty good myself right now. Not too expensive, not too cheap.

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@Omm quote:


@Tristaris quote:


@ngoctienvt quote:

If onslaught have good money.. then it's reasonable... but now it seems like too much...

You are less than a week into a patch. I don't think you're meant to cap out in that short amount of time.

It's fine.

That's right. Remember how long it took to upgrade gear in DD1? Accessories took forever unless you had hoards of mana or coal to trade for mana. Armor took a ton of mana as well. Pets took a lot of mana or exp. It takes time to max out. Some forget that and want everything to happen overnight it seems like.

I think it's actually pretty good myself right now. Not too expensive, not too cheap.

There are 3 problems with this system, that I can see.

First; The exp/gold scaling. If it works like the old EXP, the exp cost doubles every 5 levels once you get past level 7-8. Using the example above, where someone mentioned 50k gold @ level 18, for 2 levels, you're looking at roughly 4 MILLION GOLD to max an item out to 50. (Napkin math)

That's 8000 pet eggs. Probably close to 800 hours of play to max out ONE ITEM.

I'll take the time to mention that gold income is messed up too. The current best way to make gold is to run normal/hard freeplay, since trash mobs don't drop anything in End game. So if you want to get gold to upgrade your gear, have fun AFKing maps that are 600 IPWR below you! Hope all your gear is the best it can be, because it'll be months before you loot another piece of usable gear. I also think it's ridiculous that eggs currently sell from far more than even legendary gear, but that's neither here nor there.

Second; You can't argue that it's meant to be a long term investment, either. The game will probably have expansions with higher IPWR loot long before Average Joe puts in the time to max out a single item. Hell, hardcore players won't even get a single item maxxed before the next expansion.

And third; Nobody is going to bother upgrading anything past a point, unless they pick up an item with perfect rolls. Can you imagine maxing an item that took 4 months to get there, and then having a better one drop? Only perfect rolls will get the full use of the upgrade system.

Why have an upgrade system with a max level, if nobody can afford to max an item out?

Why spend your money upgrading an item that will be replaced?

Why bother with upgrades when a similar time investment will give you more reward, in way of items with better base stats?

I see 3 solutions;

Keep it expensive, remove the cap, and make absorbed EXP transfer when you absorb an upgraded item itself, so it feels like an infinite progression system (Like paragon points in Diablo). 

Lower the cost and lower the cap so it feels like a worthwhile investment without being overpowered, and not so prohibitively expensive that nobody uses it.

Adjust the economy of the game so that the cost of upgrading a single item translates into a more achievable investment of time.

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@Kyrn quote:

Let's put it this way; it's another way of grinding iPwr if you can't manage to beat the maps to get gear upgrades. You only upgrade the gear enough to beat the next map to get better gear, BUT you've the option to grind the items for more power if you can't manage said maps with unlevelled gear.

That idea falls flat on its face when you consider that it actually makes it harder to get upgrades.  Say you've spent 500k per item on upgrades.  Any new items you find will need to be a whole lot better to beat your current items even without upgrades, or you need to spend another 500k on the new item just to get an incremental upgrade.  Not a very alluring thought.

Now, I'm only at iPWR 140 so far, just making my way into endgame hard.  As such, I don't know how fast gold accumulates in endgame.  The above was based on a hypothetical situation which may or may not match reality.

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Currently, upgrading items is the only reason to want gold.  When trading between players is implemented, there will need to be a high demand for gold to incentivize the trading of gear from high ipwr players to lower ipwr players.  Absent a high cost on upgrading gear, players will have no reason to sell items for gold and will instead only trade items for other items.  Currently, there is not enough variety in gear types or gear stats to support item for item trading.

In isolation, the gold costs may be too steep.  In the future context of a more developed player economy, they need to be steep.

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@Zuqual quote:

Currently, upgrading items is the only reason to want gold.  When trading between players is implemented, there will need to be a high demand for gold to incentivize the trading of gear from high ipwr players to lower ipwr players.  Absent a high cost on upgrading gear, players will have no reason to sell items for gold and will instead only trade items for other items.  Currently, there is not enough variety in gear types or gear stats to support item for item trading.

I just hope playing solo will remain a viable option.  If the upgrade costs are too high, it becomes a pyramid scheme - a small group of players find good items in high difficulty modes and sell them to the rest, who toil to provide the elite few with gold for their upgrades.

I have observed that happen in several online games balanced around trading, and for a lone wolf such as myself it makes the game profoundly unfun to play.

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@tdb quote:


@Kyrn quote:

Let's put it this way; it's another way of grinding iPwr if you can't manage to beat the maps to get gear upgrades. You only upgrade the gear enough to beat the next map to get better gear, BUT you've the option to grind the items for more power if you can't manage said maps with unlevelled gear.

That idea falls flat on its face when you consider that it actually makes it harder to get upgrades.  Say you've spent 500k per item on upgrades.  Any new items you find will need to be a whole lot better to beat your current items even without upgrades, or you need to spend another 500k on the new item just to get an incremental upgrade.  Not a very alluring thought.

Now, I'm only at iPWR 140 so far, just making my way into endgame hard.  As such, I don't know how fast gold accumulates in endgame.  The above was based on a hypothetical situation which may or may not match reality.

Not really true. Consider that each tier threshold generally increases iPwr by about 10-20. In many cases, unless you're already significantly into endgame where you have 20++ item levels, you'll STILL find upgrades even if you have significantly levelled the item. And even then, it'd cost a lot less for said item to be an upgrade.

Now, if you're playing at the very final tier/map, yes, it would be hard to find upgrades, but that wouldn't be that much of an issue if you could already play the final map.

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@tdb quote:


@Zuqual quote:

Currently, upgrading items is the only reason to want gold.  When trading between players is implemented, there will need to be a high demand for gold to incentivize the trading of gear from high ipwr players to lower ipwr players.  Absent a high cost on upgrading gear, players will have no reason to sell items for gold and will instead only trade items for other items.  Currently, there is not enough variety in gear types or gear stats to support item for item trading.

I just hope playing solo will remain a viable option.  If the upgrade costs are too high, it becomes a pyramid scheme - a small group of players find good items in high difficulty modes and sell them to the rest, who toil to provide the elite few with gold for their upgrades.

I have observed that happen in several online games balanced around trading, and for a lone wolf such as myself it makes the game profoundly unfun to play.

It's just as well that there's no trading implemented then. :P

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@tdb quote:


@Zuqual quote:

Currently, upgrading items is the only reason to want gold.  When trading between players is implemented, there will need to be a high demand for gold to incentivize the trading of gear from high ipwr players to lower ipwr players.  Absent a high cost on upgrading gear, players will have no reason to sell items for gold and will instead only trade items for other items.  Currently, there is not enough variety in gear types or gear stats to support item for item trading.

I just hope playing solo will remain a viable option.  If the upgrade costs are too high, it becomes a pyramid scheme - a small group of players find good items in high difficulty modes and sell them to the rest, who toil to provide the elite few with gold for their upgrades.

I have observed that happen in several online games balanced around trading, and for a lone wolf such as myself it makes the game profoundly unfun to play.

I'm playing solo in nightmare 3.  I don't think upgrade cost / trading will be a barrier to soloing high content.

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@mokn quote:
@Kyrn quote:
@mokn quote:

LOL i've now leveled items to 18/52. 

The current price to upgrade is 50k for one 5 item spin, which gains 2 levels and each time the experience needed to level goes up. Even if the exp rate didn't go up it'd cost 850k to get maximum level.

The actual cost is millions to get it to max, I have 4 50's and only 800k gold.

Like i said these numbers are way off.

That or it's meant as a LONG term goal. (long in the sense of over the course of months)

Not in a game like this, loot comes and goes too quickly, It's untested, it's like the hardest map in the game having a boss with 20k hp, wtf is that. Do they test the game or what?

NM1 is harder than nm4 progression wise and even with full gear nm1 is harder than nm4 life root incursion.

The leveling for pets is also horrible after level 20, if i can't kill the pet and get the exp back why would i bother changing my pet skin, this will hurt the sales of paid pet skins.


Logic? Just because the game has bugs doesn't mean upgrades shoudn't be a long term accomplishment.

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@Zuqual quote:

Currently, upgrading items is the only reason to want gold.  When trading between players is implemented, there will need to be a high demand for gold to incentivize the trading of gear from high ipwr players to lower ipwr players.  Absent a high cost on upgrading gear, players will have no reason to sell items for gold and will instead only trade items for other items.  Currently, there is not enough variety in gear types or gear stats to support item for item trading.

In isolation, the gold costs may be too steep.  In the future context of a more developed player economy, they need to be steep.

Nobody will be paying the millions of gold needed to upgrade items in exchange for an item upgrade. Nobody even has lots of gold unless they 100% avoid upgrading anything. The system currently drains every bit of gold and leaves everyone needing more. You can't trade items for what people don't have.

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