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Defense Speed/Build Creation Idea Barn

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Why the need for this - it created a single decision point that limited our ability to create unique builds that players can choose between.

 Emoji_Skeleton.png   WAIT!!! players making there own builds and having fun how they want ! Emoji_Orc.png HOLY CRAP WE CANT HAVE THAT!

Summoner_minimap_icon_c.png but i cant make sniper towers without Rang  Emoji_Orc.png QUIET!!! YOU WILL PLAY THE BUILDS ME MAKE AND LIKE IT!

Summoner_minimap_icon_c.pngbut i have a idea to do a combo with Emoji_Skeleton.png YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU WILL PLAY THE BUILDS WE MAKE NOT YOU MAKE! Summoner_minimap_icon_c.png but in dd1 we could Emoji_Orc.png YOU FOOLS! THIS IS DD2 WE DON'T CARE WHAT YOU WANT NOW PLAY THIS BALLISTA BUILD!!!

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            Emoji_Skeleton.png  Because You Cant Have Fun Unless We Let you. Now Go Buy More Hats!

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  • 4 months later...
This is an idea to boost the upgrade system and get back the Defense Speed / Range

Let's go:

I want the Defense Speed back to the game, but I know it makes hard to balance and control. I know too you don't want to make every build a defense speed depent, but atm every build is defense power depent, just changed from defense speed to defense power.

It's an idea to create different builds like: Ranged build for some towers, Defense Speed builds and the classic Defense power build without make the game unbalanced.

One of the things mostly of the players love in games like this is the upgrade system. Every people I played asked at start of the game something like "How can I upgrade?". But the problem is: the upgrade system is nice, but with low options.

My idea is: Add the option to add Defense Speed, Defense Range and Hero Speed on upgrades.

Let's me work better on this idea:

If an item gives Defense Power + Defense Health. When you do your upgrades, you will be able to add a third(not 4) stats for that gear. So, your gear will give Defense Power + Defense Health + Defense Speed or Defense Range. 
But with some scaling to balance and control the stats.

Defense Speed: Every 3 upgrades points, you gain +1 defense speed.
Defense Range: Every 1 upgrade point, you gain +1 defense range.

If someone loves the Flamethrower and want to create a build to make them work, they will not upgrade for Defense Speed or Defense Power like it was before. 
Why? Simple, Flamethrower has enough damage and speed but low range. The players will create their own set for Flamethrower build focused in Vector Corrector and upgrade with Range.

Towers like Earthshatter and Ballistas that has Strong damage and high range, just need to improve their speed. Making another way to go on upgrades.

And towers like Frostbite and traps like Baloon will still need upgrades on Defense power. 

To finish:

This will make the game fun... People will create different builds and will like to make tutorials explaining how to build each towers, the upgrade priority and spheres.

I don't think this is a hard feature. And if you add something like every 2 upgrades, one point gained will not be unbalanced. This will be a small bonus, being able to add new gears in the future with more upgrades.

And it's an upgrade feature. Isn't something easy to get, if the player want to get more range or more speed, they will need to work and get money/items to fuse. Isn't something easy get 40 upgrades = +20 speed. Will need a lot of work to get something like +100 speed(5 items with 40 upgrades) to make towers like Ballista with a good atk rate.

Think about it. I hope people will love more options to upgrade and see defense speed/range go back to the game.

And sorry about my english, I'm still learning and getting better.

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This doesnt really make much sense to me. Defense Speed and Range werent always absolute above everything else in DD1 There were plenty of builds you could do that set these stats at the bottom of the barrel in terms of importance in a good amount of maps but were always nice to work on for character builds over all. Theres no reason to remove them as basic stats on gear in fear of this. The main reason it was so op before the wipe was because you allowed ways to stun lock mobs infinitely instead of fixing the locking issues which is quite simple. All you had to do was make it so enemies cant be knocked back up x amount of seconds after. This change to traps make far more sense than completely removing stats altogether. 

With the recent NM rebalancing it makes even more sense to bring back Speed and range back as actual stats to make things like turrets far more feasible than they currently are. You can always change the scaling on speed and range so they dont affect traps as much as turrets. 

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DD1 had diminishing returns, meaning that once you hit late game nightmare you didn't have to worry about attack speed and range as long as it was present on most of your gear. Tower damage was really the only thing worth upgrading with mana.

To be honest here, neither DD1 or DD2 have stat diversity. In DD1 it was "stack attack rate and range until they're good enough then dump everything else in tower damage". If you tried putting all your eggs in damage and not attack speed, you'd end up with a drastically inferior tower, and vice versa if you invested solely in attack speed. This resulted in everyone's defenses having little to no variation between players. Sure, my friend's magic missile might have a teeeny bit more damage per shot with a teeeny bit less speed than mine, but it would not be anything noticeable, nor would it influence our build.

DD2 isn't much better with "always stack defense power with either defense health or crit damage on the side". Again, no variation between players. Build passives are direct upgrades, which don't contribute to build diversity at all.

I want DD2 to become a game where exaggerating defense traits like attack rate, range and damage is a core part of how defenses operate. The only way for us to be able to exaggerate defense traits without completely destroying the balance/future of the game is to introduce gambits. We would then see builds that would capitalize on the strengths and weaknesses of our defenses.

For example, a lightning aura that covered half the map (maxing range at the cost of damage) could be used as a very DU-friendly way to trigger the electrocute combo in every lane. And an adorable little tiny aura (maxing damage at the cost of range) would dish out a ton of damage to any enemies that stood in it. This is the kind of build diversity I've wanted in dungeon defenders since the beginning.

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For the gambit spheres that increase one stat while decreasing another, I'd like to see them in medium slots as well as large, or maybe in a couple dedicated gambit slots, so that you can combine multiple, or have them on multiple towers. I'd also mention that aura health is so high, that reducing the aura health on their gambits is meaningless, as they basically will never die anyway.

Lightning aura range increased 50% but damage decreased 25% seems more like a reasonable gambit to me.

@mktsang quote:

still garbage idea consider the only way of getting speed is on sphere, and its going to be a multiplier, no one is going to ignore that and pick something else. This makes the game 1 dimension.

Although unrelated, give us more uber slots, right now the uber is boring and for ability uber you cannot change it in combat phase, which means owning more skill uber skill =/= more useful. But owning more tower uber means your hero is more flexible in building. This just feels like another way of gimping dps heroes. 

We should stop tower builders toggling uber spheres... That just means you need to collect a ton of them and makes the downside not matter...

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