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Defense Speed/Build Creation Idea Barn

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Will there be a "Panic Fire" uber for non-tangible defense?

FYI "Panic Fire" chance to + 50% increased attack rate when defense is being attacked.

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@Kline quote:
@SGRock quote:

It appears that there is a current meta against gear that rolls decent numbers for both defense power and defense health, instead giving one a strong value and the other a poor value.  At the same time it appears there is a much heavier drop rate on gear with player damage.


Please increase the odds of getting decent defense power and defense health stats on the same item.

Glad I'm not the only one noticing this. Finally got to 50 last night, 4 runs of various maps and how many drops did I get with both power and health? Zero. I'd say a good 80% of gear was double hero stats, and the remaining 20% only had either power or health.

Don't forget guys.....DD is all about the grinding.

Searching your *ss off for that one piece of gear/weapon that suits your needs.

If the chances get higher and everyone has the ultimate gear in notime, the game wouldn't be as exciting!!!!

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@Ryukashin quote:

If Defense Speed is put back into the game, then the three suggestions to see it would be a gain every character level (in the range of +2 - +8), skill spheres, and defense level upgrades. For example the cannon ball tower at tier 1 has an attack speed of 2.0 as we all know, at tier 5 maybe its 1.25 or 1.5 for its attack speed?

The skill spheres will for attack speed need to be buffed to provide more of a boost to be considered useful, as using a defense power sphere gives much much bigger increase over the defense speed spheres.

Not sure if you got a reply on this, because haven't read all the comments yet. When you get enough DP (End-Game) the attack speed gives a slight buff, so power is no longer helpful. and where you are atm sounds like the Uniques of attack speed and power then another speed is the best possible outcome for you atm, but these spheres may need slight adjustments

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Some Ideas for spheres :

1- The player is able to upgrade defenses from that specific character to tier 6.

2- When the huntress use a charged shot on an enemy, it marks its target. Any towers including AA will automatically shoot the marked target if it can until its dead or another target is marked. Need to be charged manually and is not affected by Charged primary shot sphere.

3- While repairing a tower or wall it gains a 15% damage resistance.

4- While repairing a tower it gains defense attack rate +150.

5- Poison DOT now have a 3% chance to stun enemies for 1 seconds every "tick".

6- Blaze balloon has 5% chance to remove any resistances and special abilities enemies got from spawners for the duration of the fire DOT.  Bosses and ogre's "ground" is the only ability unaffected.

7- Provoke also increase nearby defenses attack rate by 5%.

8 - Training dummy now deals magical fire damage.

9- Pretty much all small spheres version VIII at maybe level 40?

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Haven't read all the posts and ideas, but the only towers that need ds are canon, balista and earthshatter (a lot) and flamethrowers (a little).

Why not make specs only for them? Just like the la attack rate? (in gloves i believe)

Green gear only 1 spec, epic 2 with not much boost etc.

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My only gripe with the Spheres system... is the current number of available slots.
For Medium slots, "Defense Range II" (10% x2) is a "must have", while competing for room with some amazing utility and QoL Spheres (Anti-Air, Stun, Gold Bonus... even enhancements for Oil Flask and Arcane Volley...)

For Large slots there aren't enough choices yet, but some of them are already mutually exclusive, even if they are for different abilities: "Freeze Sphere I", "Earthy Knockup Sphere I" and "Extra Flame Damage" are all for the Apprentice, each for a different tower, but you have to choose only one.
Uber Spheres are the same as Large Spheres currently: Choose one tower to enhance/change, forget the other towers.

... My point is: Tower and Ability spheres already compete between each other for room; you really shouldn't introduce Tower Speed as yet another category of spheres to take away from those slots. As said about the Medium Slots, having to choose between more Range (builder stat) and Hero utility (enhanced abilities) is already limiting enough on the role of the character. Having Tower Speed on, say, the Uber slot - even if more Uber Slots get added in the future - would work as a build limiter, not an enabler.

My suggestion is giving us the "Specs Tree" back in some way or form. Some peeps have already suggested giving us stat points for distribution on level up... that could replace the "Tower Range / Tower Speed / Tower Crit" Spheres, while still being gated by Gold if so you desire. It doesn't have to be like the old DD1 system, but say: we reach level 20 and get the choice between 20% more Range, 20% more Ability Power, or 10% Range + 10% Speed, as a permanent perk; it could even be yes, spheres... if said spheres didn't compete with other categories of enhancements.

Also, if you wish to give us multiple game-changing and build-defining slots, try to make it so that we can equip at least one of each tier of Sphere for each Tower or Ability - say, 4 Uber slots, one for each Hero Tower, with spheres for the same tower being mutually-exclusive and each tower having at least four versions... The "Uber Sphere" suggestion thread will get to that point someday (at least 4 good versions of each tower / ability).

tl;dr: mixing "Stats" (t. range, t. speed) and "Build Choices" (freeze or cold, fireball or flamethrower) on just one, single system (Spheres) is a no-no. Really don't do it.

Complexity is good, don't be afraid of implementing stats + spheres + skill tree + itemization, trying to make the game "casual" and "for everyone" on simplicity alone; Path of Exile is absurdly complex but still strives.

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If you want make lots of build you could make new tower, just make 4 tower slot for each character so they can pick tower for specific build, then make tower as equipment or skill tree to choose, then same char can have different tower, and if you want you can even sell each tower costume or model with gem

for example:

monk can put 4 different boost aura in their defence equipment slot (defence speed, damage, crit, health) to make tower boost build, or using 4 aura like (slow, lightning, heal and, hero damage boost) to make fighting monk, 

Monk: damage boost aura, defence boost aura, speed boost aura, health boost aura critical boost aura, fire aura, lightning aura, slow / ice aura, heal aura, Air Pressure Tower (damage and push enemy back), Sky Guard Tower, Tesla Tower (damage 6 nearby enemy - like DD1) etc

ps: you could change monk uber to something like tesla with lower damage to each enemy hit

Squire: Baricade, Balista, Canon, Dummy, Catapult (throw rock from far - damage small area), Bowling Ball Tower, Bouncer Tower (can't push grounded enemy or big enemy)

Apprentice: Flameburst Tower, Arcane Barrier, Frostbite Tower, Earthshatter Tower, Hex Tower (decrease damage or change enemy to little goblin or frog), Deadly Striker, 

Huntress:  Basic Huntress Defences, Spear Trap (stab enemy with spear and impale enemy for few sec and can be used as baricade), Bird House ( summon eagle that hit air enemy), Companion house (summon moving animal that help attacking enemy - like bear, panther, wolf or anything they move in enemy line or attack enemy that come close to their house

i think you can apply this because its like uber slot sphere, and if you can make tower as lootable drop every tower can have different status and effect 

at least every job or class need something to slow enemy like Spear Trap, Slow Aura, Baricade, Arcane Barrier

sorry for my english because english is not my native language


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@Factions quote:

% chance for cannonball to pierce or % chance for cannonball to explode on contact

% chance for skyguard tower to do X% additional as physical

% chance to double shot on ballista

% chance to heal x% and taunt nearby enemies on target dummy

% chance to leave a pool of poison on the ground on poison dart tower

% chance to instantly reset on blaze balloon


Some potentially interesting passives i was thinking about.


Yes please. These ideas are all fantastic and are a good foundation for ideas down the road.

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I'd say the first step to tower customization, it to make those already customizable towers actually worth using..

(aka pls buff ubercannon and flamethrower towers)

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How about adding some sphere or passive that increases attack speed of towers for 3 sec (as an example only) every time that specific tower crits. This not only helps the attack speed side of things but also might make crit chance a more viable build. since the only viable meta right now seems to be dhp and dp.

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Also, just a suggestion: implement incentives for builders to stay on the map as opposed to swapping to a combat class.

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Arc Tower

Replaces the Flameburst tower

Visually all of the fire is now crackling lightning.

Arc Tower will strike 2-4 enemies in closish proximity, bouncing from the first target to the next until there are no more targets. Standard Chain Lightning effect.

Range is shorter than the flameburst tower.

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I guess he's got every point you are worrying about. You guys should give it a try, sounds like fun and also you will get experience in every way to "balance" the game. 

No "pain", no gain!

@Valthejean quote:

Honestly, I don't like seeing rate and range leaving their position as primary stats.  It just makes the game dull gearing wise.  I would rather have a plethora of abilities to pick from for primaries with gear dropping 3-4 of these stats (similar to DD1), with one stat being the "main" stat (similar to how relics function now).  That way, you could have your items prioritize speed as their main stat, but your other stats would always be significantly less.  If you want to solve the "brokenness" of range and rate, I have a few suggestions.

-Grant diminishing returns on crowd control effects, similar to how WoW handles them.  In WoW, let's say you use a fear spell on an enemy for crowd control, and it lasts a good amount of time.  The next time you cast a fear spell within a certain period, the duration will be shorter with each sequential cast.  Eventually, they become immune to it altogether.  This avoids spamming CC, as they are always a temporary solution while not making them useless (like current combos now).  With a system like this, the geyser combo would never be an "indefinite wall" that breaks the game, since the mobs would get over the combo and move on, while still making the combo desirable.

-Have range and rate behave under thresholds.  It's a little hard to explain, but I think ultimately it would make the game rather kickass.  Take rate for example.  Let's say you get your rate up until (I'm putting in arbitrary stats here since I don't know what endgame loot drops) 1000, which improves the speed of towers up until a point.  Once you go over this, you've reached the next threshold level, causing your towers to behave different, such as firing a second shot at the original unmodified rate.  From there, more rate causes this "double shot" to fire faster, up until another point (which would be exponentially higher than the previous one), giving it a third shot and so on and so forth.  Assuming you do not implement stat inflation, an ideal situation would make the first threshold reachable, and a second threshold take heavy investment (with a third threshold either impossible or so difficult you'd need to invest everything you possibly could to get it).  Range could be very easy to fix, like having the distance a projectile travels decrease the damage it does over time (and then having a special stat that inverse this for some really awesome sniper towers, thanks to gigazelle for that idea), or making auras deal more damage the closer they are to the center, and less damage the further from it.

With a final note, I don't think Trendy should be afraid of "imbalance".  I'm not saying that things should be obviously broken, but if you keep trying to force in perfect balance, your game is going to be horribly dull.  Don't be afraid to let us have some FUN doing absurd and crazy things with our builds.  Let things get crazy and wonky, we're in pre-alpha after all, this is the time to experiment!


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This game kind of sucks to play solo in higher levels with no speed right now. Almost any person who says it is perfectly balanced is probably playing in a group. Can't wait to see if any of these new ideas will help solo players at all.

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You could play around with granting the ability to increase tower range at the cost of the tower having a larger footprint.  So now your towers can shoot twice as far and hit those ranged mobs, but you can only squeeze two of them into that corner instead of the 5 you used to put there.


Auras probably should be adjusted so that they cant overlap, and be re-tuned to compensate.  Not being able to spam LA/LSA right next to each other would force people not to rely over-heavily on spamming them but instead to support them with other towers.  Note: I loves me a field of auras, so this hurts to suggest.


Target Dummy becomes Repair Bot.  Repair Bot soaks up any mana you drop in its range.  It will repair any tower in its range, but at a mana cost that is higher than player repairs.  Allows solo players some wiggle room, but still nowhere near as effective as having more players.


Every class should have access to a wall, or you should go back to strongly suggesting that players not make a huntress/monk as their first character.  I don't know what fun walls would be for the huntess/monk, but I'm sure you can come up with something fun.


Apprentice gains a "reflecting portal".  Towers target the portal if no enemy is closer.  Projectiles bounce of the portal using the appropriate physics accounting for angle of impact.  Effectively allows towers to shoot around corners, possibly also extending their range up to 2x (1x between tower and portal, 1x between portal and mob).  Think reflect wall from DD1, but for your own projectiles.  I imagine something like this is hard to implement though.



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@Zuqual quote:

You could play around with granting the ability to increase tower range at the cost of the tower having a larger footprint.  So now your towers can shoot twice as far and hit those ranged mobs, but you can only squeeze two of them into that corner instead of the 5 you used to put there.


Auras probably should be adjusted so that they cant overlap, and be re-tuned to compensate.  Not being able to spam LA/LSA right next to each other would force people not to rely over-heavily on spamming them but instead to support them with other towers.  Note: I loves me a field of auras, so this hurts to suggest.


Target Dummy becomes Repair Bot.  Repair Bot soaks up any mana you drop in its range.  It will repair any tower in its range, but at a mana cost that is higher than player repairs.  Allows solo players some wiggle room, but still nowhere near as effective as having more players.


Every class should have access to a wall, or you should go back to strongly suggesting that players not make a huntress/monk as their first character.  I don't know what fun walls would be for the huntess/monk, but I'm sure you can come up with something fun.


Apprentice gains a "reflecting portal".  Towers target the portal if no enemy is closer.  Projectiles bounce of the portal using the appropriate physics accounting for angle of impact.  Effectively allows towers to shoot around corners, possibly also extending their range up to 2x (1x between tower and portal, 1x between portal and mob).  Think reflect wall from DD1, but for your own projectiles.  I imagine something like this is hard to implement though.



Huntress-type barrier: Cage trap: First enemy which steps on it is caged (along with enemies around it). Cage has HP multiplier equal to apprentice barrier. Key note: While untriggered cage is untargettable by enemies and cannot be damaged, and reverts to being hidden when unhit and untriggered for 5 seconds. 3DU.

Sphere bonus: Porous cage: Ranged attacks on cage also damages enemies within it.

Monk-type barrier: Stasis field: Exceptionally slows movement of enemies which enters it, but rapidly drains health of aura; Has two fields of effect; a larger slowdown, and a smaller outright stop. Higher health targets drain the aura faster (but not as fast as hordes), and bosses are merely slowed instead. Size: larger field is equal in size to lightning aura.

Sphere bonus: Living aura: Undead-type enemies also takes damage while inside stasis aura; those specifically summoned takes higher than normal damage. 6DU

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Frost Beam Tower

Replaces Frostbite tower.

Channels likes Frostbite tower, dealing gradually increasing damage on a single target (alternatively, with a single massive damage spike at the end of channel). No longer has an AoE slow (still slows it's target). Compatible with Freezing Sphere. (Not sure whether to allow multiple beams to hit a single target, up for balancing) (if no beam stacking is allowed, DU cost and damage should be increased, possibly double the cost and DPS of LSA; it's still be terrible for multi-target thanks to the full channel required to hit said DPS, but better for single target thanks to extended range and slow)

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Squire suggestions

1. Fully upgraded squire towers (harpoon and cannon) can be climbed inside of and controlled by the player. The tower uses the Hero's stats instead?  

2.  Fully upgraded squire spiked blockade prevents splash damage and piercing damage to towers behind it.

3. or -Fully upgraded squire spiked blockade absorbs any damage done to towers around it.

4. Target Dummy - each upgrade gives different effect.
    level 1 Dummy = default

    level 2 Dummy = slows/stuns mobs that hit it

    level 3 Dummy = Causes fear or confusion when hit

    level 4 Dummy = chance to Charm when hit

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Critical Advantage (large sphere): Every time a tower deals crit dmg, they gain increased attack speed up to 300% for 5 seconds.

Critical Gain (large sphere): Every time a tower deals crit dmg, the player will gain 1000 gold.

Critical Fusion (large sphere): Every time a tower deals crit dmg, the tower itself will permanently increase it's base dmg for the duration of the game, X% each time.

Critical Explosion (large sphere): Every time a tower deals crit dmg, their projectile will explode upon impact, dealing 50% of it's base dmg to nearby enemies. This dmg will stack on existing AOE dmg towers.

Critical Greed (Uber sphere): Whenever a tower deals crit dmg, the chance of getting a mythical or higher rarity item will increase by X%.

Critical Failure (Uber sphere): Every time a tower deals crit dmg, the attack will permanently lower the physical and magical armor of the damaged enemy by X%.

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@sheeshyweeshy quote:

Squire suggestions

1. Fully upgraded squire towers (harpoon and cannon) can be climbed inside of and controlled by the player. The tower uses the Hero's stats instead?  

2.  Fully upgraded squire spiked blockade prevents splash damage and piercing damage to towers behind it.

3. or -Fully upgraded squire spiked blockade absorbs any damage done to towers around it.

4. Target Dummy - each upgrade gives different effect.
    level 1 Dummy = default

    level 2 Dummy = slows/stuns mobs that hit it

    level 3 Dummy = Causes fear or confusion when hit

    level 4 Dummy = chance to Charm when hit

OOOH!

"Assuming control!"

That would actually be quite fun.
Imagine getting in to a harpoon and actually aiming it correctly =D

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Reign of Fire: Fire Ball Tower has a (10%) chance to summon a fire storm over its targeted threat for five seconds (medium AOE).

Aurora Beam: Freezing towers now fire Aurora Beams and have a (10-20%) increased chance to freeze the primary target and now have a 5% chance to freeze all affected enemies in the AOE 5% chance.

Deep Impact: Earthshatter Tower now causes a wide AOE knockback, along with a three second daze in which the enemies move slower and deal reduced damage. (Earthshatter tower damage also needs to have its damage buffed for people to even want to use this tower).

Magic Link: Magic Blockades within X distance of each other share a health pool. If one blockade takes massive damage, it is evenly distributed between the other blockades.

Molten Lava: Fireball Towers have a 10% chance to explode on impact, igniting all targets within X distance with fire damage over time.

Lightning Burst: Instead of the Magic Blockade burst damage upon losing 20% health, the Magic Blockade will channel its energy into a concentrated lightning blast that will continuously electrocute the enemy that brought it bellow 80% health until death. (This works against ranged targets that may have normally been out of range of all towers) Damage should be twice the DPS of the fireball tower.

Chain Lightning: The fireball tower no longer shoots fireballs at air units. Instead, the Fireball Tower now shoots chain lightning at air units, similar to the dungeon defenders 1 lightning tower.


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Its pretty damn simple let us decide our heroes stats instead of throwing something in our face without the option  of a reroll . there you go the salad is complete! We dont need dressing just sense cause i obviously missed the influence vote on removing that stat the game we are deciding right ?  That makes you think about the build you want to create a balance between tower dps and hero survival or a mix of both  maybe? even a pure hp tower build trough secondary stats but purely tower dps on the hero stats or hero dps or maybe a speed defense with critical etc the options whould be endless but limited in the factor of not being able to reroll. I can understand why you removed the stat "completely"  besides the spheres but, its not really catering to the fans of the original game that made it what it became me myself clocked over 4000 hours in dd1. Because in the end your original game also had builders and dps classes its a choice of preferance that the community themselves deciced to create it wasnt made by devs or programmers it came to be of the product which we recived.. Maybe you should add more modes then private and quick matches so that its easier to navigate between the two of the polar oposites that pepole have with this.. Like just put in a gametype that is for"solo"Private" players or "Builders" because they usually agree on what is optimal cause the numbers talks to them so they can manage that trought their own channel and leave the pepole who wants to play cooperatively alone... and they can go on their own journey and have fun with their friends and all that good stuff... But some of us still like that old feel where u do the optimal builds place ur towers in the exact right spot  and learn from those who are better than you so to speak.. you cant balance that out you can only sepperate it but thats my two cents.. But in the end we can only wait and see what you come up with as an alternative ... cause where not asking for much just entertainment..

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A bunch of different ideas:

Fushion - Blaze Ballon gets +x% damage for each Aura covering it

Napalm Drop - Blaze Baloon has %x chance to drop two charges for doubled damage

Meltdown - enemies affected by Frost Tower take %x more damage from fire

Earthquake - Earthshatter deals +x% damage to grounded enemies (and all enemies which can't be knocked up, Minibosses etc).

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Tower Targeting:

A context menu (press F) while targeting a tower to change its behavior. Options like Closest, farthest, weakest and strongest (low and high max HP).

This gives the players more options to use the towers wisely. And to help deal with the ballista attack animation, which I swear spends more time switching targets than actually shooting.

For traps, the options would be to set a delay between the trigger and activation. Instant, 0.5scec, 1sec, and so on. No longer will your geyser fire on just the first goblin to walk by!

Also I would like to see the ballista attack cycle waste less time. If there are other towers that do it, them too.


Training Dummy:

Every defense should have its place.  Stand out in some regard. What exactly is it supposed to do well? What role is it supposed to fill? I'm asking because I can't tell. So I don't really know how to make it better when I don't understand its purpose. 


Grounded:

I feel the grounded effect severely punishes certain abilities and traps in ways other monster traits don't. Namely, both Monk offensive abilities, tornado, and geyser trap. Assuming the power of these skills is factoring in the CC potential, which grounded makes unreliable, it really weakens those abilities. With the secondary lane traits changing every round, it isn't like the physical/magical resist, where I can know that it isn't going to be strong here, and adjust my strategy around it. Since the bigger bosses are already immune, is it really necessary?

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