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Give us back Defense Speed

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@Tristaris quote:


@Macc quote:

Good Job Trendy remove tower speed.... One of u biggest fail !

The only thing that has failed, is how much sense that post made.

It made sense. U are just trolling.

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looking at it from a neutral perspective, i see people that love the change (also see that it's mainly people playing in groups) and people that hate it (people that mostly play solo), honestly the change of having to level multiple characters at once just so you can progress very slowly is insane, imo level 50 should be where the game starts, i can't remember having to spend hours and hours to get to max level in DD1, if anything at some point it was an afk fest of xp farming till 100 and then the game would start becoming a grind, right now i am sitting at 3 characters around lvl 25, and already feel burned out because as a solo player there is next to no progression and i find it extremely boring because of that, im literally forcing myself to play in the hope to see better,

but that's just my 2cents.

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@xdeviler quote:

looking at it from a neutral perspective, i see people that love the change (also see that it's mainly people playing in groups) and people that hate it (people that mostly play solo), honestly the change of having to level multiple characters at once just so you can progress very slowly is insane, imo level 50 should be where the game starts, i can't remember having to spend hours and hours to get to max level in DD1, if anything at some point it was an afk fest of xp farming till 100 and then the game would start becoming a grind, right now i am sitting at 3 characters around lvl 25, and already feel burned out because as a solo player there is next to no progression and i find it extremely boring because of that, im literally forcing myself to play in the hope to see better,

but that's just my 2cents.

You are so right. The game is boring. I have 300 hours or so prepatch anticipating something good. After the patch I´ve played one character to lvl 24 and just stopped out of boredom. 

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I dont rly understand why ppl are so mad about Def speed is "gone" sure i struggle with my lvl 27 apprentice on normal freeplay, and i have Speed in my runes.

Sure its not as it used to be but someone will find a way eventually its been out for like 48 hours now? and ppl already raging cuz something is not as it used to be.

ppl must be open to new changes otherwise the game wount evolve.

And now DPS characters will be more usefull now and thats a good thing imho that opens up more variations

im just happy to play this game, if trendy dont like the way the patch turned out im sure they will fix it.

AND dont forget its still a "Pre-Alpha" or beta game still

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@Deathshrimp quote:

I dont rly understand why ppl are so mad about Def speed is "gone" sure i struggle with my lvl 27 apprentice on normal freeplay, and i have Speed in my runes.

Sure its not as it used to be but someone will find a way eventually its been out for like 48 hours now? and ppl already raging cuz something is not as it used to be.

ppl must be open to new changes otherwise the game wount evolve.

And now DPS characters will be more usefull now and thats a good thing imho that opens up more variations

im just happy to play this game, if trendy dont like the way the patch turned out im sure they will fix it.

AND dont forget its still a "Pre-Alpha" or beta game still

The "it´s still pre-alpha" has lost it´s viability long ago.....

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This would probably be solved by giving some towers more splashAOE/decreasing some of the recharge time on some towers *harpoon tower*

Don't know how to fix the lack of progression feeling without bringing back tower speed though.

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@MaJean quote:


@Deathshrimp quote:

I dont rly understand why ppl are so mad about Def speed is "gone" sure i struggle with my lvl 27 apprentice on normal freeplay, and i have Speed in my runes.

Sure its not as it used to be but someone will find a way eventually its been out for like 48 hours now? and ppl already raging cuz something is not as it used to be.

ppl must be open to new changes otherwise the game wount evolve.

And now DPS characters will be more usefull now and thats a good thing imho that opens up more variations

im just happy to play this game, if trendy dont like the way the patch turned out im sure they will fix it.

AND dont forget its still a "Pre-Alpha" or beta game still

The "it´s still pre-alpha" has lost it´s viability long ago.....

Well then its still Early access game wich pretty much means the game is not finished for full release yet. sure the game looks fine atm and its one of the better early access games ive played. but still trendy is working hard to please everyone.


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The defense speed sphere is still a thing, but it really doesn't make that big a difference unless a tower has a long ass cooldown of 5 seconds or more. The difference it makes to a monk is pathetic, and the difference it makes to an apprentice's flameburst tower is also pretty meh.

If they want to take out defense speed from items, that sphere needs to have a lot more of an effect.

Honestly, it comes down to these for me:

If this was done because of animation glitches, this is a bloody lazy solution. In DD1, towers simply stopped moving to compensate for faster attack speeds.

If this was done for balance purposes, it's also a lazy solution. They could have reduced it's effectiveness, but at least we'd still see our towers getting better without getting too much in the way of DPS spec heroes.

Either way, removal of defense speed comes off as a lazy solution to whatever problem it was meant to solve. Right now, my towers feel like they aren't doing much post-normal campaign, and I need to level my builder before I level a DPSer.

Bad form, Trendy.

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@MaJean quote:

I´m so tired of the game I´ll never play an early access game again. 

Which is sad as this is one of the best EA titles I've participated in.  Frustrating, yes.  "I'll never touch EA again because of this game!", no.  Trendy is constantly in contact with us about whats coming up, and what they are working on.  We are seeing constant progress, updates, and our voice being heard and acted upon, which is better than most of the EA games I have participated in or heard about.  Credit to Trendy where Credit is due.  The issue is not in the EA status, but in a solution to a problem (not an iteration of a solution, but a full blown, lots of time devoted to this "solution" solution).

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Way too much whining here, play or don't that simple, just stop fricken whining. BTW the spheres add great rates of fire if you equip them, anyone else notice that? you can jack your rates that way, but something tells me your all still not happy, the game is balanced so if your not happy play something else...please :) And for anyone complaining it is slow at the beginning, all games are like that you need to build it up. it's totally normal and balanced, if your not happy go to another game, come back l;ater and beg someone to carry you to end game like you probably did in dd1.

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@Kleeborp quote:

Way too much whining here, play or don't that simple, just stop fricken whining. BTW the spheres add great rates of fire if you equip them, anyone else notice that? you can jack your rates that way, but something tells me your all still not happy, the game is balanced so if your not happy play something else...please :) And for anyone complaining it is slow at the beginning, all games are like that you need to build it up. it's totally normal and balanced, if your not happy go to another game, come back l;ater and beg someone to carry you to end game like you probably did in dd1.

I don't know about you, but the defense speed spheres are freakin' weak unless you're using super slow towers.

I'm playing a level 26 Apprentice, and holy crap the lack of defense speed hurts. Before you bother, yes, I am wasting my sphere slots on speed. Really wish I didn't have to, as they don't have enough of an effect to be worth it.

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maybe i got great gear but i find the game easier then hard...so I'm not complaining over details.... I said my piece I'm out outta here :) peace

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As an apprentice i can tell the game is harder, you have to get a good tower stuff if u want to survive but getting Dhealth & Dpower is pretty hard on a item :p


+ If trendy remove Dspeed on turret, why does runes can give us Dspeed ? Even quick fire rune is still active  but it's pretty useless without proper Dspeed.


Even if it was on purpose what is the matter of taking only Dspeed rune when u can take some other good runes.


Anyway, i'm pretty sure this was just a test to see how hard is to play without Dspeed, just have to be patient until it come back :)

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Without tower speed the game just feels sllooooooowwwwww and boring, I could probably live without the range stat and use the sphere system to add the range (although then it becomes compulsory and at that point you may as well just add in the range!), but speed is mandatory.

The crit stats are not interesting, crit chance maybe is useful, but crit bonus can be thrown out and I would not care less.

Moral of the story is dont fix something that isnt broken.

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I agree on the basis that too much was nerfed when defense speed was removed. What was the point of making the splash tower have an 8 second cool down if the quickest you could get it is like 6 seconds now. If your going to leave defense speed out and make it pretty much impossible to raise to a point that makes any difference then make the cool downs more reasonable, if you put defense speed back in then longer recharge/fire speeds are acceptable because then stats can be acquired to lower the speed back to the expected time. 

I get this was mainly done due to the combos like splash + skyguard, or splash + lightning aura, but the huntress is completely a trap based character and relies on fast attacks at relatively low damage to survive. (Cue people yelling about how the poison tower is/was the highest single target dps tower) She is mainly single target to small AoE, but if the speed is too slow then the enemy will just run past the traps after they trigger and not take damage. 


Please rebalance things a little more in the near future. 

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While Dungeon Defenders 1 was awesome, fun, and unique, I found a lot of enjoyment out of the Orcs Must Die games. They are also action/tower defense games with RPG-like elements. One of the reasons I dedicated so much more time to DD1 is because I never actually leveled all my chars to cap, beat every level in nightmare (namely the moon one). The main difference between DD1 and the Orcs Must Die games is that DD1 the player was a bit more passive (unless you really wanted to run around on certain levels). While the player isn't constantly engaged throughout the entire wave in Orcs Must Die, the player typically has a lot to do. Being a predominately solo player and one that isn't a fan of exploits, I haven't had any issues soloing content. My builds more or less work the same as they did before - lightning aura is a bit less effective for javelin throwers. That said, I wonder if people are remembering how hard DD1 was without either (a) a high level running you through for gear or (b) farming stuff to level. I remember the first time I solo'd a nightmare survival in DD1, I was using every last bit of man-power to do it. Eventually, I could AFK. Since the wipe, I've solo'd stuff while feeding my daughter a bottle in which I was AFK. Nothing was too ruined. That said, I just completed the campaign on normal (last level on easy) today. We will see if my tune changes once I play free play.

I guess the question for the devs is if they are building a more interactive game (like Orcs Must Die) or a less interactive game (like DD1 after getting gear). Personally, I haven't had any issues with the changes, other than lightning aura has a bit less use for javelin throwers. I'm fine with them fixing a major exploit (geyser/lightning aura) that I imagine many people abused. I saw a video of a guy beating 2nd level of end game with 3 auras, 6 traps, and 3 boosts. If people are trying to get that back, I'm not sure what the point in playing a game is if you can AFK using a fraction of your defense units.

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Campaign is a cakewalk compared to free play.

@jmhjm quote:

That said, I just completed the campaign on normal (last level on easy) today. We will see if my tune changes once I play free play.

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@Kleeborp quote:

Way too much whining here, play or don't that simple, just stop fricken whining. BTW the spheres add great rates of fire if you equip them, anyone else notice that? you can jack your rates that way, but something tells me your all still not happy, the game is balanced so if your not happy play something else...please :) And for anyone complaining it is slow at the beginning, all games are like that you need to build it up. it's totally normal and balanced, if your not happy go to another game, come back l;ater and beg someone to carry you to end game like you probably did in dd1.

You're delusional! The speed sphere is terrible at best, not worth wasting a slot over.

It's not as simple as play the game or don't. That is terrible advice. Just because it's balanced to you, doesn't mean everyone feels the same. Great attitude you have there...

I am giving it a fair shot with open mind to change and still feel speed needs a lot of tweaking. I have somewhere around 8k total hours between ps3 and pc, nobody carried me. So, my point is, some are not "whining" just to whine, we all have a legitimate reason.

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We need attack speed back that made dd1 so enjoyable to see your tower shooting like a machine gun.

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Well I mean, we don't need them attacking like a machine gun. But gods damn towers are slow now. So... slow...

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@Kleeborp quote:

Way too much whining here, play or don't that simple, just stop fricken whining. BTW the spheres add great rates of fire if you equip them, anyone else notice that? you can jack your rates that way, but something tells me your all still not happy, the game is balanced so if your not happy play something else...please :) And for anyone complaining it is slow at the beginning, all games are like that you need to build it up. it's totally normal and balanced, if your not happy go to another game, come back l;ater and beg someone to carry you to end game like you probably did in dd1.

You do realize that the entire point of this pre-alpha access is for us to tell Trendy what we like in the game and what needs to be fixed right? Sure some people are a little rude about it, and maybe we could congratulate Trendy for the good things more often, but the whole point is that we are helping Trendy to make a game that will be most fun for the most people. We are the test group. If the majority of us think there is a problem regarding Defense Speed then it needs to be fixed. There are other ways to allow it to increase, whether it be tower tiers, hero level, spheres being more useful, etc. but something needs to happen because most people find slow towers boring, and ultimately not able to do the job right.

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Before:

Boom boom boom boom booom,

Yey fun!

After:

Boom

*waits*

....

*blockade dies*

....

Boom


Just kidding, Lol. Over exaggeratinga lot. But still, its ridiculous on how slow they are. Emoji_Squire.png

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@iSkeptical quote:

Before:

Boom boom boom boom booom,

Yey fun!

After:

Boom

*waits*

....

*blockade dies*

....

Boom


Just kidding, Lol. Over exaggeratinga lot. But still, its ridiculous on how slow they are. Emoji_Squire.png

Kidding? It is a bit like that sometimes. I mean. It's more like:

Boom

*Waits*
....

Boom

*Waits*

...

"SOMEONE REP THE BLOCKADES!"
"THERES TOO MANY OF THEM!"

"... Oh right. I'm the only one here. Craaaap."

*Blockade dies*

"CRAP CRAP CRAP!!! MAYBE I CAN SAVE IT!!"

Boom

*Waits*
...


*Waits*

Tower has been destroyed

Crystal is under attack!


You Failed.

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@Fuzzy quote:

In my opinion, the Devs should bring back Tower Range and Tower Attack Speed stats and add the ability to play in infinite mode after completing the set number of waves in a level. This is what made DD1 fun, the challenge was not trying to beat the mission, but trying to reach the highest wave that you possibly can. Even with the best gear, the "overpowered" builds would eventually reach a limit and be overran by the enemies. Onslaught is an interesting game mode and delivers a unique challenge to the game, however, it is no substitution to endless waves on any map that allows you to push your characters gear and your own ability to the limits. This allows the casual player who only want to get in a short amount of time the ability to do just that, while it allows the more hardcore players to to obtain high level gear, while still playing on the normal game maps.

THIS THIS THIS soo much this, they took the good things from DD1 and hacked em to bits and gave us this abomination.

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