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Cavespider

Give us back Defense Speed

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Geysers don't exactly rock. 

SGTs are too slow to even take advantage of enemy mobs being knocked up by geysers or monk's 'Pole smash'.

Ballistas have always been good.

Flamebursts have always dealt sick dmg, best tower for laning thus far.

Blaze balloon are better due to being buffed.

Electric auras have always been solid.

Haven't reached end game, but Free Play Hard is srsly hard.

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There was a reason it was a removed scalable stat. Items in dd1 could crash taverns with how fast it made some towers.(Ultimate gear +) OP.

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There's been a few times where my geysers have paced other defenses damage. And the utility they bring plus damage is solid. 

I think they are great, so far. 

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@Ed94 quote:

There was a reason it was a removed scalable stat. Items in dd1 could crash taverns with how fast it made some towers.(Ultimate gear +) OP.

I never saw a tavern crash in all of my dd1 career and I even have high stat characters and friends with crazy high stats as well. Maybe if you were on satellite internet...


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We put mage towers down to the defense limit.  Sents specs were insane on the tower rate with his ultimate plus gear. It ended up crashing it a couple of times. It was halarious.

@Omm quote:


@Ed94 quote:

There was a reason it was a removed scalable stat. Items in dd1 could crash taverns with how fast it made some towers.(Ultimate gear +) OP.

I never saw a tavern crash in all of my dd1 career and I even have high stat characters and friends with crazy high stats as well. Maybe if you were on satellite internet...



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@Cavespider quote:

a poll would be nice

People actually trying something different, and giving the game a little bit of time, instead of being up in arms after one day, would be nice.

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Played a game today and some bitter guy said "Don't place ballistas. They suck now." And I was like "Then how will we shoot down the wyverns?" And he was like "Oh. Yeah."

People are so stuck in their hate for the changes that they forget that the changes don't get in the way of the affected pieces in doing their job. Ballista is still OP as hell and the only efficient way to take down air in the game. The trick is placing it correctly.

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@dashgalaxy quote:

Played a game today and some bitter guy said "Don't place ballistas. They suck now." And I was like "Then how will we shoot down the wyverns?" And he was like "Oh. Yeah."

People are so stuck in their hate for the changes that they forget that the changes don't get in the way of the affected pieces in doing their job. Ballista is still OP as hell and the only efficient way to take down air in the game. The trick is placing it correctly.

But they do, their targeting is completely bugged. Actually stay there and watch them follow enemies and not fire. That's unfortunately why App is so much better than Squire right now.

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@Kelebek quote:


@dashgalaxy quote:

Played a game today and some bitter guy said "Don't place ballistas. They suck now." And I was like "Then how will we shoot down the wyverns?" And he was like "Oh. Yeah."

People are so stuck in their hate for the changes that they forget that the changes don't get in the way of the affected pieces in doing their job. Ballista is still OP as hell and the only efficient way to take down air in the game. The trick is placing it correctly.

But they do, their targeting is completely bugged. Actually stay there and watch them follow enemies and not fire. That's unfortunately why App is so much better than Squire right now.

Completed a few hard free play maps with squire towers as well with ballistas being very nice.

Are you saying all targeting? Or air specific? Most air we've been taking care of has been taken care of by cannonball turrets, monk anti air, etc and not so much harpoons.

May get the squire I've been running with to try to use it for AA and see how it pans out.

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@BartiriX quote:


@MaJean quote:

They must have had an aneurism or something to remove tower att speed in a tower defense game. They removed all the fun, and it wasn´t that fun to begin with. I miss DD1....

Isn't this a bit of a harsh reply? DD1 was probably not flawless in it's years(?) of design and creation. Furthermore it could also very well be that you have sentiment for DD1 affecting your judgement ;)


@shimago quote:

<3 defense speed, miss ya

Same :'c

I don´t think it´s harsh it´s just the truth. We can all look at numbers after the game has launched if you don´t believe me. If I, (who LOVED DD1) do not feel any enjoyment playing this, I bet you others feel the same.

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One thing I can say is that Trendy listens to the players. If not having Defense Speed ruins the game, they'll find a way to fix it that'll make most people happy. I hated defense speed in DD1 because it was just stupid and silly having 12 shots from a ballista firing per second. It was broken before the end and made worse with hacked items and characters. It ruined the immersion entirely.

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@dashgalaxy quote:

One thing I can say is that Trendy listens to the players. If not having Defense Speed ruins the game, they'll find a way to fix it that'll make most people happy. I hated defense speed in DD1 because it was just stupid and silly having 12 shots from a ballista firing per second. It was broken before the end and made worse with hacked items and characters. It ruined the immersion entirely.

12 shots per second? Must have been friggin awesome:) I do remember having app towers that just sprayed out fireballs. Ahhh the good times...

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@dashgalaxy quote:

One thing I can say is that Trendy listens to the players. If not having Defense Speed ruins the game, they'll find a way to fix it that'll make most people happy. I hated defense speed in DD1 because it was just stupid and silly having 12 shots from a ballista firing per second. It was broken before the end and made worse with hacked items and characters. It ruined the immersion entirely.

Just to be contrary, I'll post that I loved it when 12 shots came out at a time, LASER TURRETS!

Not like this game ever had much immersion for it anyways. :P

Now the piss poor graphics on the squire uber, that's immersion breaking, I hope they fixed that.

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I'm pretty late to the party, but I thought I'd share my experience all the same.


Pre-Wipe I mained a squire/monk combo. Running compact groups of cannons/ballistas fed by a high-HP barricade.

I tried this same tactic, running a monk and squire and I'm finding the game to be much harder. I'm confused on a number of things which hopefully I can explain in the right way.


Attack Rate

The issues surrounding this are unfortunately starting to add up. Say if I was to have a group of cannons attacking a group of targets, the AoE seems like it's too small (or non-existent) to effect the group itself. It might slowly take out one or two of the targets, but considering the group of 15-20 of the battle-boars or even higher numbers in smaller classed units, they're attacking the barricade in insurmountable groups.

How attack rate used to help, was the rather fast target switching. As a unit died that a turret was targeting, the animation would reset (currently still happening). With the 2 second attack speed on a canon (5 seconds on a ballista) this enables a group of targets to overwhelm some cannons pretty easily.


Monk Boost % Currently 10%

10 turrets. That is how many you need to make building a boost aura worth it. If you can't get 10 turrets in an area, then there's no point in building a boost-aura. It would be worth more to simply build another turret.

Let's be frank, the attempt at trying to boost the usefulness of the boost aura by adding 10% of the monk's tower damage to the total damage of the tower is a bit sad. If you wanted to go down a path where this was potentially helpful, was to add it into the calculation where the player who placed the turret down originally, their Tower Damage. Just adding a bit onto the end is a slap in the face.



Anywho, that's my thoughts.

Thanks for the great game though, I loved playing DD1. Loved playing DD2 Pre-wipe, and I trust that Trendy will resolve what they need to make the game enjoyable again.

- Ps. Anyone got any advice on how to get out of the 90 item power range. Hard kills me ez, not getting any better items after grinding the end of normal free play for a good 5 hours (Currently using squire/monk combo, both full tower dmg).

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A little bit of tower atk speed woould be great. i didnt join before the wipe but i played DD1 alot and yeh it does not feel much like progressing at the moment....

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@TheAcen quote:

~snip~

Cannonball towers are not meant to take out large clumps of enemies any longer. Maybe with the Uber sphere, but early on definitely not.

Before you could for the most part, spam only one type of defense and it'd be mostly okay. Now they want to push more diversity among builds. You want to use things like a ballista shooting down a lane, or earth shatter to start pelting things before it gets in range of your defenses.

Ice towers coupled with explosives, lightning auras, blaze balloons, or any other damaging aura works absolutely wonders.

Stacking nothing but cannonball towers is not fun, nor is it very efficient at the moment.

I do not disagree about monk auras, I think it needs to be fixed, and I would not object to small defense speed while leveling, but do not think it should make its way back as a stat that can be stacked on gear. 

The couple of guys I play with and myself are progressing quite well (or at least I feel we are) through Free Play Hard, as well as we've completed a map on Incursion Hard and a wave or two of Onslaught. Balance is fine, but the tuning is quite tight, and is where I feel it should be.

My two cents. Feel free to add me on steam if you need some help breaking through the ilvl 90 barrier. Group I play with are around ilvl 140-150ish at the moment.

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Def speed is essential but I am also wondering where did the range boosting skill go? I am new to DD2 but I am pretty scraed now that they are cutting away all the good stuff from the game :-/

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@TheAcen quote:

Monk Boost % Currently 10%

10 turrets. That is how many you need to make building a boost aura worth it. If you can't get 10 turrets in an area, then there's no point in building a boost-aura. It would be worth more to simply build another turret.

Let's be frank, the attempt at trying to boost the usefulness of the boost aura by adding 10% of the monk's tower damage to the total damage of the tower is a bit sad. If you wanted to go down a path where this was potentially helpful, was to add it into the calculation where the player who placed the turret down originally, their Tower Damage. Just adding a bit onto the end is a slap in the face.


The Boost Aura is giving so little compared to pre-wipe because now it gives a damage reduction bonus to towers in range. In my opinion, that is not even slightly worth the change.

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@Malice quote:

Def speed is essential but I am also wondering where did the range boosting skill go? I am new to DD2 but I am pretty scraed now that they are cutting away all the good stuff from the game :-/

DS is not essential, but if you would like some tips or need help with anything, feel free to add my steam @ Tristaris87 and I'd be more than glad to try to help you, what I can.

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this thread is just early game whining, you want end game stats now? like come on this update is a step in the right direction. You cannot compare 60 mil DPS in a alpha-beta game. your getting way ahead of yourself, best for you is to not play until launch.

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I think the main problem is that right now we feel robbed of a sense of progression. I agree with that sentiment. I'm not sure attack speed is totally dead. I think it'll make a comeback in other forms. I also think progression will get better once they round out the endgame and do a few more mega patches and wipes.

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Not gonna lie, with tower speed gone, DD2 has become a boring hack n slash grind fest.  I can't bring myself to level anymore, it's just too boring.

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i actually rely 90% on tower to beat these levels....maybe your doing it wrong, but i equip defense stats and ignore hero stats...just saying.....

@MrNipple quote:

Not gonna lie, with tower speed gone, DD2 has become a boring hack n slash grind fest.  I can't bring myself to level anymore, it's just too boring.


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