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Cavespider

Give us back Defense Speed

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3 words.. Tower Defense Speed

3 more words.. Put it back

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You have defense speed skill spheres, which do make a difference.

Try something else, other than spamming one defense. The maps are more fun than ever because it ENCOURAGES diversity and playing differently than before, especially with resistances mostly preventing people from spamming one type of defense.


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@Cavespider quote:
wow 2 examples out of how many tower defense games? negating game mechanics are you for real here, troll is troll do not come here being insulting and expect a warm welcome

Sanctum did well enough to warrant a sequel, which improves on the first.  As did Defense Grid.  Both games have different takes on the genre though.  

Defense Grid (and DG2) both rely on tactical layering of towers to deal with varying enemies.  Some have shields, and tesla turrets deal with shields better than say cannon turrets.  Some are fast but weak, and towers that put DoTs on the targets do better on those (laser towers versus gun turrets).  

Sanctum is a well balanced melange of tower defence (where towers can deal with normal mobs) and FPS (where you have to take down the special units in some way).  The selection of towers you build and the path you construct for the enemies to follow is the whole point of the game, giving you enough time to work with the towers to take out those special units.  In Sanctum 2 you even have different characters who have different weapon selections, and each weapon is, like the towers, geared toward defeating certain enemies.  One of the enemies (the soaker) basically doesn't take much damage until it's been shot umpteen hundred times, making the assault rifle the primary means of dealing damage to it (waste all those hits quickly) rather than the sniper rifle who does massive damage in a single shot.  Meanwhile there's other enemies who have impenetrable armour on their fronts, and only a little weak point on the back, perfect for the sniper rifle who does lots of damage to a very specific area (while the assault rifle sprays over a larger area at range).


Trendy is trying to be more like Sanctum in this regard, but more their own game.  Towers are good for generally taking care of enemies, but the failing of DD1 I feel was that you could set up everything and then afk for a dozen waves while it finished.  They're trying to prevent that by making towers have less of an impact on defence alone and forcing you to get involved to take down special enemies.  A well balanced defence of magic and physical damage is now required, meaning you have to mix and match character defences (which we all did before the wipe...  right?  What's that?  You did geyser/LA everywhere and never touched your apprentice?), and because the attack speeds are slower you can't necessarily hope to deal with all the enemies without barriers at least, and player involvement at worst.  And player involvement is NOT a worst case scenario.  It's a best case.  It's the point.  You're here to play a game, not watch cookie clicker destroy monsters so you can get phat loot.


@MaJean quote:
Yawn.... you´re just a troll. Next.

Says the troll.  Properly rebut someone's claims or don't bother replying.  You aren't adding anything to the discussion by attacking someone's personality when they have a valid reason.  >.>

-----------------

I will say I miss attack speed as well.  It was satisfying to watch my towers attack so often.  I'm a dakka fanboy though so I'm bias in that respect.  The patch JUST came out a few days ago, I think we can give them leeway to make adjustments to tower speed while maintaining DPS.  On the other hand, defence construction is now vastly different than it was before and thought has to be put into what being built where will do.  Is an earth shaker now going to be the most effective tower, or is a pair of fireballs going to do the trick?  What about ballistae or cannons?  Which walls?  etc.  


Actually having to think about your defences now makes a lot of people angry, and actually having to participate in the defence of your objectives is pissing off more people who just wanted to afk.  I have no sympathy for either.  If you wanted that sort of game, they already exist elsewhere, and don't involve an avatar that you have to walk around the playfield.  Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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Two Things about Defense Speed:

1. The current state of the game makes the choice of small spheres an ease, just buy atk rate 7 , and either atk rate 6 atk dmg 6 or 2x atk rate 6 so u want some build diversity but u force players to follow one tactic.

2. On lvl up it says def. speed (+0) either it's a bug or it is like it is. If it's a bug change it to a fixxed number. If it's intended to be (+0) change it too cause it isn't that great.
This would solve two problems most of the people have.

1. It would make some towers viable again + the recharge rate of some towers after the enemy they aim dies would be shorter and the game would be more consistent and less dependent on some factors
2. Someone made a thread about "Zero to Hero". Right now a lvl 1 squire wouldn't be impressed from a lvl 50 squire's towers cause they shoot the same speed (nearly). Also the lvl 1 squire wouldn't feel any progression except the more dmg and health of his towers, the tower speed would give him the feel of progression.

If adding tower speed per lvl would affect endgame too much, just change something on endgame and give the people what they want - u play a game to progress and to feel the progress, if there is no progression u could play some tetris same effect (joke) :p

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But whatever. Most people from DD1, Tower defense was fun. It is not fun when you have to go around whacking and slashing all over the map because your towers don't do crap. I might as well go play a MMO RPG game like Terra or Rift, if I wanted that.

So this is where I disagree with people. Like from my experience late game DD1 was basically build your towers and then sit there for like  30 freaking waves and do nothing other than repair.   Late game was SUPER grindy.  I can't see how people thought that aspect was fun.    I like the idea of bosses every map / ogres that force players to fight.   I like having fewer waves so games don't take 5 hours.   

I think it'd be okay if once we hit level 50 and get high enough gear we sit back and let towers do most of the work but go after bosses / special creeps.     I'm level 20 on 3 heroes right now so I don't know how well things are scaling but seems like people are saying it's too hard.  I think it should be hard but maybe the game needs some balance tweaking. 

Some people were saying the lack of speed limits build options... You can go attack power / health...  I mean I think it'd be cool if they could split damage into like   Fire / Water / Earth  so those stats would effect all your towers and some might be stronger vs different types of creeps.   Like geyser tower would change to lava geyser or mud geyser.. and they'd just change the color of the water.   That might be too big a change at this stage though :/    Speed doesn't really add more diversity.. its just a multiplayer on damage.   .. Having element stats would also require ... elemental enemies so player could focus on being strong vs .. rock golems and lava monsters by boosting 2 of their tower stats.  

  .. I guess the way the game is now  there's not much choice in stats .. it's tower damage  or health.   Skill spheres are in the game to add that diversity... maybe the game just needs more skill spheres that give higher buffs vs specific enemy types.   Or like an uber sphere power stat on items .. so you choose if u want tower damage / health or a boost to tower damage that only works with your uber tower. .. so you could focus on having strong uber towers  or strong regular towers.  

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@GummiBear quote:


@MaJean quote:

If you want to talk mechanics, I can just revert your attention to the broken abilities. I NEVER use abilities because they just don´t work. It´s like the devs are sitting between two chairs. Should we make it a hack and slash.... or a tower defense.. The result is somewhere in between, and not in a sexy way. 

So basically they finally managed to actually make it what DD (both 1 and 2) were advertised from the start, a hybrid RPG/TD, and not jsut another pure TD, that we already have millions of on the market

Did you manage to see the word "broken" in my post?

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Whoa this thread exploded. Shoot, i've had 0 failures of a map STILL and im farming all of Free Play Normal (not on hard yet), but i've gotten my lanes down. Since Tower Boost is broken, i been using Elec Aura/Blaze Balloon/Poison Dart for lanes with Physical Resist, and on Magical Resist lanes i use my Squire towers + 4 or 5 Explosive Traps (they ARE physical damage). Easy peesy, no trouble. But... that's the only strat so for i could use... i do miss tower speed

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Seeing towers attack so slowly is just  a bit boring. Ideally change defense crit chance/damage on gear to defense speed/range. Make a bit of a crit boost available through spheres and modifiers the way speed and range currently are.


Also, what nobody seems to have mentioned, geyser traps are virtually useless now. Huntress doesn't really have any appeal left except for hero damage, which seems too strict. Every other class, especially now that resistances seem more noticable, can both build and play a strong role with their hero.


Kudos to whatever dev has to dig through all this. I apologize for our rather childish behaviour.

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@OpTiCSpoonFaZe quote:

Seeing towers attack so slowly is just  a bit boring. Ideally change defense crit chance/damage on gear to defense speed/range. Make a bit of a crit boost available through spheres and modifiers the way speed and range currently are.


Also, what nobody seems to have mentioned, geyser traps are virtually useless now. Huntress doesn't really have any appeal left except for hero damage, which seems too strict. Every other class, especially now that resistances seem more noticable, can both build and play a strong role with their hero.


Kudos to whatever dev has to dig through all this. I apologize for our rather childish behaviour.

It´s because we care!:)

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@OpTiCSpoonFaZe quote:

Seeing towers attack so slowly is just  a bit boring. Ideally change defense crit chance/damage on gear to defense speed/range. Make a bit of a crit boost available through spheres and modifiers the way speed and range currently are.


Also, what nobody seems to have mentioned, geyser traps are virtually useless now. Huntress doesn't really have any appeal left except for hero damage, which seems too strict. Every other class, especially now that resistances seem more noticable, can both build and play a strong role with their hero.


Kudos to whatever dev has to dig through all this. I apologize for our rather childish behaviour.

Yeah, actually tons of people have mentioned Geyser Traps, and no they're not useless. They don't work anything like they used to, but that was the whole point. Geysers and Lightning Auras were literally removing all strategy and challenge.

Geysers (and Explosive Traps) now have a much larger blast radius and hit way harder (but Explosive traps got nerfed), so combining them with Frostbite Tower is just devastating. Or, you could put some at the end of a line of Explosive Traps with some Poison Dart Towers to act as a "blockade" which will pretty much guarantee that only the high HP enemies will set off the Geysers. Or you could even put some in front of a real blockade to act as anti-kobold measures.

After all, this is a Tower Defense game. If something doesn't work, you don't just sit there and whine (at least I hope you don't). You come up with a new strategy.

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@MaJean quote:


@Glazy quote:

People complaining 1 day after the patch when they haven't had time to gear appropriately ><.  At least try before you come and moan.

Are you saying we shouldn´t have oppinions?

I'm saying you should try it and then offer feedback.   

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Fun.  The game is all about FUN.  Removing speed from the game makes it seem VERY slow and grindy.  The towers are NOT doing enough damage.  Too many enemies can walk through a well laid out tower grid and force me to step in and hack and slash.  I love the DD was a hybrid.  What I HATE and find entirely NOT FUN is that DD2 is NOW a Hack n Slash with Tower Defense elements.  4 man teams have to "fight" way too many minions, not to mention bosses with very little support from the towers.  What I find funniest about a lot of the people thinking attack speed being removed is better is that their argument boils down to "the combo was broken and wasn't fun"...well is the combo any fun now?  Hell no it isn't!  So where a good number of people enjoyed the benefit of the combo before, NOBODY enjoys it now.  


There were NUMEROUS better ways to handle the combo problem as already addressed by several posters.  But the devs did something that is ruining the game.  This isn't like every other TD game.  Defense Speed made a huge difference in large part b/c the game doesn't let you TARGET enemies.  Some of the game's biggest flaws are now exposed and I don't see the devs communicating with us.  I think they are afraid that they can't fix it now?  Why else would they be remaining silent?  Are they just hoping this will blow over as they player population by in large hates the new setup and is leaving?  Because that's a fantastic solution to the issue.

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@Knucke quote:

this thread is pathetic.

So why bother posting that sentence? Some of us care about the game, but if that sentence is your contribution, I think you should keep it to yourself.

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We need a response from the devs. Its pretty clear that defense speed needs to be added back, but maybe with DR or something like that. It would be nice to hear what the devs are going to do rather than be left in the dark. 

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If they do not want to add defense speed back (hope they do)  can we get the base attack higher on some towers like  AP/SQ and some visual candy with our towers now as we lvl. Even if they do It would be nice to have to choose between 4 to 5 tower stats so we do see a lot of build ver. If you gave us tower range/speed/health/damage/crit/crit damage. And you tweaked the power of each stat I think we would see some cool gear choices.

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Thanks for the feedback! We're logging down everything that our community is saying about the latest changes in the game, including the Defense Speed change. We'll use the feedback we're gathering to discuss further changes.

In the meantime, we ask that you please follow the Forum Rules and Posting Guidelines when interacting on the forums. Please focus on the topic being discussed and don't devolve into character attacks.

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@MaJean quote:

They must have had an aneurism or something to remove tower att speed in a tower defense game. They removed all the fun, and it wasn´t that fun to begin with. I miss DD1....

Isn't this a bit of a harsh reply? DD1 was probably not flawless in it's years(?) of design and creation. Furthermore it could also very well be that you have sentiment for DD1 affecting your judgement ;)


@shimago quote:

<3 defense speed, miss ya

Same :'c

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I know there was also an issue with the animation of speed causing lag... I know that is not the only reason. My game lags even worse now. I honestly can't say if we need speed back or not ( I do miss it a lot) I have only finished campaign on normal so far and it was pretty fun. I just feel I have a lot of useless towers at this point of the game. I feel I had more variation in my builds with rate.

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bump because it's so true. 8 second recharge on ballista? and if your cannons kill it before the 8 seconds is up then you have to wait 8 more seconds just for one shot that does medicore damage? cmon now... 

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Came to the forums about to say all this...my towers either have to one shot everything, or they take a beating. The flying suicide guys are basically guaranteed to make it through if anything is with them...it's painful watching my fireball towers attack once every two seconds....if I time my tornado wrong, my towers miss the shot on the way up, AND the way down, this is really miserable. The worst part is that I don't think the removal of tower speed was supposed to nerf apprentice, it was supposed to nerf traps and lightning aura.

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They should give us a choice on whether Tower Speed should be kept or not with a poll. Either way, people will keep complaining how this game isn't a tower defense anymore until they fix it whilst comparing it to DD1.

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I don't know what game you all are playing.

Geysers rock right now.

Ballistas when placed APPROPRIATELY, do huge damage.

Flamebursts do some sick damage if you place them right as well.

Blaze Balloon is better now than it has ever been, and it is finally useful.

Electric Auras are solid.



How far have people progressed that are complaining about defense speed? Hard free mode while a challenge, is loads of fun.

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