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Cavespider

Give us back Defense Speed

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@Skalli quote:

I read through a lot of pages. Usually, I would say "bring back Tower Speed!!!!!". I do agree, but not for items.


Instead of bringing it back to item stats, I would prefer to have skill points to use: 2 per level, 100 overall (or 3 per level and 150 overall).


So, in addition to the stat points you get automatically per level up, you could invest two points per level for a few special stats.

For example: Tower range, tower speed, mana reg, life reg ...


+1 to tower range - increases the range of your towers by 0.25% (with 100 points a possible maximum of 25%),

+1 to tower speed - increases speed of your towers by 0.25%


I like this option. More diversity. What do you guys think?

That's really no different from what we can already do with spheres. :P

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@paroxysmal quote:

i was a bit dismayed to buy the highest tower speed sphere to see a measly 34? points that it granted...

38, though I'd note tier 6 speed spheres is likely bugged to be giving too low a value (guessing it should be giving 30 instead of 25). But yes, spheres should probably be extended to give values right up to lv 50.

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@Tyroki quote:


@Some random guy quote:


@chaos8 quote:

when they removed DS didn't they say its because they want to open up room for more strategies or whatever ?

well? anyone got any new strategy i can use? cuz i sure as hell can't find any...

oh well...back to spamming cannonball towers


Earthshatter sphere (throw up mobs in the air) + AA.

Freeze sphere + monk smash, squire smash or mage tornado to one shot mobs and flying too.

Monk barricade boost sphere and a waller, you actually don't boost up towers but mostly walls +25%HP, +10% less damage to defenses at T1 on those hard to defend camps.

Water melee weapon + LA and taser armor, mobs will never move from that spot.

Squire Fight me not sphere + heal aura near towers, just keep taunting, towers got +135% attack power.

Watch where those annoying Javelins, mages and drakins usually stop to use range on your towers, build LA, traps or geysers on that spot to deal with them.  Again without boost aura we can build anywhere.

Different type dedicated ppl, example one mage with freeze sphere and another mage with the earthshatter sphere should one shot a lot of mobs at long range.

Or 2 squires, 1 waller and the other one with crazy DP.

Different tower placement, try new spots you never know you might fight someplace that looks stupid at first but is actually amazing.   I seen a lot of new builds lately since people are not using boost anymore.

There's a couple of new spheres, try em out you might find something totally unexpected that works really well.   

Earthshatter Sphere + AA: WOO YEAH! A 15% chance for AA to get to shoot ground units. Yay.

Its just an example, you DON'T rely on 1 combo alone.   AA will shot those 15% of times yea, but its better than a big fat 0.   Combine that with geysers and with freezing frost towers.  

Also mobs hiding behind a wall gets thrown up in the air maybe it can give your regular towers a one clear shot at them before they get in true line of sight of your towers.

Its all those little details that makes low geared people overcome what better geared guys can't.

Think before talking next time and don't just look at the numbers.

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we have to deal with it.... sure i'll miss DS stats but we always have another option to do. We might give a chance to trendy
keep in mind they haven't remove it COMPLETELY ,spheres still do the trick

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@setzero quote:

Take it=) Gear with defense speed stat.204784599d73c3d7a45521c9d9d99f26.jpg

I'm not sure i would call that gear with defence speed, since it got 0 of it... having it would imply that it give you an increase in defence speed, which that one does not.


That aside that is an OBVIOUS bug, be sure to fill in a bug report, if you ahvent already

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@Some random guy quote:


@Tyroki quote:


@Some random guy quote:


@chaos8 quote:

when they removed DS didn't they say its because they want to open up room for more strategies or whatever ?

well? anyone got any new strategy i can use? cuz i sure as hell can't find any...

oh well...back to spamming cannonball towers


Earthshatter sphere (throw up mobs in the air) + AA.

Freeze sphere + monk smash, squire smash or mage tornado to one shot mobs and flying too.

Monk barricade boost sphere and a waller, you actually don't boost up towers but mostly walls +25%HP, +10% less damage to defenses at T1 on those hard to defend camps.

Water melee weapon + LA and taser armor, mobs will never move from that spot.

Squire Fight me not sphere + heal aura near towers, just keep taunting, towers got +135% attack power.

Watch where those annoying Javelins, mages and drakins usually stop to use range on your towers, build LA, traps or geysers on that spot to deal with them.  Again without boost aura we can build anywhere.

Different type dedicated ppl, example one mage with freeze sphere and another mage with the earthshatter sphere should one shot a lot of mobs at long range.

Or 2 squires, 1 waller and the other one with crazy DP.

Different tower placement, try new spots you never know you might fight someplace that looks stupid at first but is actually amazing.   I seen a lot of new builds lately since people are not using boost anymore.

There's a couple of new spheres, try em out you might find something totally unexpected that works really well.   

Earthshatter Sphere + AA: WOO YEAH! A 15% chance for AA to get to shoot ground units. Yay.

Its just an example, you DON'T rely on 1 combo alone.   AA will shot those 15% of times yea, but its better than a big fat 0.   Combine that with geysers and with freezing frost towers.  

Also mobs hiding behind a wall gets thrown up in the air maybe it can give your regular towers a one clear shot at them before they get in true line of sight of your towers.

Its all those little details that makes low geared people overcome what better geared guys can't.

Think before talking next time and don't just look at the numbers.

Firstly, you need to get off your high horse scuzbutt =D

If you've bothered to read any other posts that I've made (oh wait, you probably can't because I post most of my stuff in the defense council forums... not saying that sarcastically, I just realise you may not be able to), I heavily play the Apprentice. As it so turns out, the Earthshatter towers are utterly worthless without defense speed. Even with the defense speed spheres, they can't attack anything worth a damn to be of any use. They simply take far too long to attack, by which point your other defenses have already slaughtered the enemy en-masse. If they haven't, then you were going to be in trouble to begin with.

Now. Why waste your time with a 15% chance to knock up using with the already inferior Earthshatter towers (to Flameburst) wasting a slot, when you can just use the Huntress' Geyser Trap which is immediate and a surefire knock up unless that lane is grounded (UGH! GROUNDED! HSSSS!)

As of right now they have no real use. 15% chance to knock up, wasting a perfectly good sphere slot, is not my idea (or many peoples idea) of a good choice. Not when you have the likes of Freeze Sphere, Extra Fire Damage Sphere and Blockade Boom Sphere to choose from.

In play, Earthshatter towers are a waste of DU (vs Flameburst) and Earthy Knockup Sphere is a complete waste of a large slot (making it both worse than flameburst and a geyser trap combined). Sure a Flameburst and a Geyser trap together is more expensive than Earthshatter + Earthy Knockup, but the Flamebursts attack faster and get their damage out there far more often, and Geysers are guaranteed unless the lane is grounded (in which case Earthy Knockup was even more useless)

As for your comment about low geared people: You don't get your large slot until level 40. Geared or not, it isn't difficult to set up a quick low level huntress for the sake of some geysers (kinda like it isn't hard to set up a lower leveled monk for the sake of buff beams and a bit of early AA, as I've recently discovered despite wanting to get an apprentice to 50 before I level anything else)

I'd like to mirror your little "think before talking" sentence at the end there, but I merely don't think you've been actually putting things to use and comparing them correctly. And before you decide to repeat 'don't just like at the numbers', no. Both try things out AND look at the numbers. Compare 15% to 100%.

Either way, you do as you please. I'll continue to do things more efficiently :\
I'd just prefer you not try to steer other players in the wrong direction with misinformation.

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Finally i found someone who agree with me about this ***ty earthshatter tower.


Just look at his dps, it's nearly the same as a flameburst tower with a slower attack and it cost 10 mana more than flameburst ! And with a good gear you can even have a greater dps for 40 mana (at my lvl 11% dmg for flameburst with an item)


When i see people using it on multiplayer i just want to slap them :p, we will see later if they up earthshatter with better stats :p

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@Hetzer quote:

we have to deal with it.... sure i'll miss DS stats but we always have another option to do. We might give a chance to trendy
keep in mind they haven't remove it COMPLETELY ,spheres still do the trick

no we don't have to deal with it...

game feel so slow and boring right now...

so far the only people i have seen saying good things about this are the 4 players teams who apparently like to hack and slash and tank mobs...*** this ***.


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Leveled a squire to 32 so far... makes my apprentice feel useless. I don't feel like anything is closer to being balanced yet. Still feels like I have a ton of useless towers. Haven't made it to NM yet, but on hard I feel like huntress and apprentice have no place. Monk/Squire is all I need because they dominate the other 2.

I am not liking the removal of defense speed the more I play. I play solo and have beaten maps up to Betsy on hard free play. Game is not the most solo player friendly but it's doable (so far).

Getting kind of burned out of hacking and slashing every time I play.

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@chaos8 quote:

so far the only people i have seen saying good things about this are the 4 players teams who apparently like to hack and slash and tank mobs...*** this ***.

I mean, it's a hero-based tower defense game. That's kinda the point. If you expect to be able to completely afk while your towers do all the work, I think you found the wrong game...

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@Crossfire024 quote:


@chaos8 quote:

so far the only people i have seen saying good things about this are the 4 players teams who apparently like to hack and slash and tank mobs...*** this ***.

I mean, it's a hero-based tower defense game. That's kinda the point. If you expect to be able to completely afk while your towers do all the work, I think you found the wrong game...

To be fair though, many players still have the DD1 mindset. Many builds were AFK-Tower Builds, especially when leveling. Really only fought at crazy higher stages when waves went crazy OP.

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@Crossfire024 quote:


@chaos8 quote:

so far the only people i have seen saying good things about this are the 4 players teams who apparently like to hack and slash and tank mobs...*** this ***.

I mean, it's a hero-based tower defense game. That's kinda the point. If you expect to be able to completely afk while your towers do all the work, I think you found the wrong game...

did you even play dd1, that was exactly what you're describing as "not this game" like, wtf. sometimes i feel like people have no clue what they're talking about.

this game should be everything BUT tanking mobs with 3 squires and hack and slashing with weak ass turrets.

i mean this is a sequal, im not surprised people expect the same kind of experience instead of going from completely AFK with tower builds to unable to afk and tank n spank/hack n slash

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Yesterday I played with 3 level 50 who's concept of proper defense building was building sufficient defenses to stall the enemies while they DPS them to death.  How is that even a remotely appropriate tower defense game.

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@xdeviler quote:

did you even play dd1, that was exactly what you're describing as "not this game" like, wtf. sometimes i feel like people have no clue what they're talking about.

this game should be everything BUT tanking mobs with 3 squires and hack and slashing with weak ass turrets.

i mean this is a sequal, im not surprised people expect the same kind of experience instead of going from completely AFK with tower builds to unable to afk and tank n spank/hack n slash

Sequels are not always the same as the first game but with better graphics.  Take a look at the Settlers series for example - all of the games have the same basic idea (well, except Settlers V, which is kind of a black sheep), but vastly different implementations.

Anyway.  I seem to recall DD1 having a specific mode where heroes were unable to interact with enemies and were even able to pass through them.  It was hardly AFK playing though, as you had to run around collecting mana and repairing/upgrading defenses (I'm not sure if it was the same mode where repairs were disallowed but upgrading still fully repaired the defense).  I'd certainly be happy to see that mode back in DD2, but I wouldn't want the entire game to be that.

I find the current solo balance to be quite good at least.  There's too many lanes to defend alone, but the enemies coming from high threat lanes are often strong enough that I have to help my defenses.

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@Crossfire024 quote:

I mean, it's a hero-based tower defense game. That's kinda the point. If you expect to be able to completely afk while your towers do all the work, I think you found the wrong game...

Why? This was completely viable in DD1/DDE depending on your gear, map, and build. Most maps were doable with only touch maintenance to repair auras after you had everything fully upgraded.

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@xdeviler quote:


@Crossfire024 quote:


@chaos8 quote:

so far the only people i have seen saying good things about this are the 4 players teams who apparently like to hack and slash and tank mobs...*** this ***.

I mean, it's a hero-based tower defense game. That's kinda the point. If you expect to be able to completely afk while your towers do all the work, I think you found the wrong game...

did you even play dd1, that was exactly what you're describing as "not this game" like, wtf. sometimes i feel like people have no clue what they're talking about.

this game should be everything BUT tanking mobs with 3 squires and hack and slashing with weak ass turrets.

i mean this is a sequal, im not surprised people expect the same kind of experience instead of going from completely AFK with tower builds to unable to afk and tank n spank/hack n slash

Sorry. Honestly never played DD1/DDE. I thought the character-centric nature of the game just implied that, but I guess I'm wrong. My bad..

(I probably shouldn't be talking like I know so much about the game, since I really don't. I'll work on that)

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@Kline quote:

Why? This was completely viable in DD1 depending on your gear, map, and build. Most maps were doable with only touch maintenance to repair auras after you had everything fully upgraded.

And so it is in DD2.  I just completed Siphon Site D on free play hard while not touching the game during waves.  My characters were a level 48 / iPWR 130 huntress and a level 28 / iPWR 96 squire.  Given the map's recommended iPWR of 82 I was overgeared for it, but the iPWR range of 105-115 meant that it was possible to get upgrades for my squire.  One upgrade in fact dropped, although I need one more level to use it.

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@xdeviler quote:


@Crossfire024 quote:


@chaos8 quote:

so far the only people i have seen saying good things about this are the 4 players teams who apparently like to hack and slash and tank mobs...*** this ***.

I mean, it's a hero-based tower defense game. That's kinda the point. If you expect to be able to completely afk while your towers do all the work, I think you found the wrong game...

did you even play dd1, that was exactly what you're describing as "not this game" like, wtf. sometimes i feel like people have no clue what they're talking about.

this game should be everything BUT tanking mobs with 3 squires and hack and slashing with weak ass turrets.

i mean this is a sequal, im not surprised people expect the same kind of experience instead of going from completely AFK with tower builds to unable to afk and tank n spank/hack n slash

that may be how it turned out, but that was certainly not how it was intended and advertised, from the steam store page from DD1 (http://store.steampowered.com/app/65800/) under 2nd listed key features: "and participate directly in action-packed battle".

Standing AFK and only repairing and upgrading now and there most certainly is not what i would call participating directly in action-packed battle

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@GummiBear quote:


@xdeviler quote:


@Crossfire024 quote:


@chaos8 quote:

so far the only people i have seen saying good things about this are the 4 players teams who apparently like to hack and slash and tank mobs...*** this ***.

I mean, it's a hero-based tower defense game. That's kinda the point. If you expect to be able to completely afk while your towers do all the work, I think you found the wrong game...

did you even play dd1, that was exactly what you're describing as "not this game" like, wtf. sometimes i feel like people have no clue what they're talking about.

this game should be everything BUT tanking mobs with 3 squires and hack and slashing with weak ass turrets.

i mean this is a sequal, im not surprised people expect the same kind of experience instead of going from completely AFK with tower builds to unable to afk and tank n spank/hack n slash

that may be how it turned out, but that was certainly not how it was intended and advertised, from the steam store page from DD1 (http://store.steampowered.com/app/65800/) under 2nd listed key features: "and participate directly in action-packed battle".

Standing AFK and only repairing and upgrading now and there most certainly is not what i would call participating directly in action-packed battle

Might not be with you think but for a large member of the community and people who played this general and type of game it is.

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@zGooZz quote:

if only there was a poll to get a real number count of who is for or against tower speed.

It wouldn't matter because it's not going to go back to the way it was. This thread is pointless, and not only because the devs recently said it was always the plan to reintroduce speed in a more controlled manner.

It was pointless before because they had said that a long time ago.



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@Ambiguous quote:


@zGooZz quote:

if only there was a poll to get a real number count of who is for or against tower speed.

It wouldn't matter because it's not going to go back to the way it was. This thread is pointless, and not only because the devs recently said it was always the plan to reintroduce speed in a more controlled manner.

It was pointless before because they had said that a long time ago.



Exactly, if there had been even the slightest chance to keep the old the iteration of defence speed we would have had an influence vote LONG ago

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