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Cavespider

Give us back Defense Speed

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@Narutimalte quote:


@Shinnyshin quote:


@Narutimalte quote:

Well i have a ipwrlvl of 68 with my apprentice tower, i have 2 item who doesn't have health/damage at the same time. my barrier has 20k hp and i barely survive on siphon site solo in normal free play. (and barely survived on ruin with a friend)


I just take a spell huntress to depush lane with her piercing shot coz i loose if i don't.


And for this your drop is only +3 lvl than my actual stuff, it's not worth. So yes, speed rate need to be back (crit are just usefull on late game)

Your experiences...do not match mine.  At all.  My barrier is only 13k HP and I've been having absolutely no problems with Siphon Site on normal free play--in fact, all the FP Normal maps, Betsy aside, have been an absolute cakewalk and it's the jump to Hard that took work.  And that's without a Huntress at all.


Are you taking enemy resists into account?

Do you play with other defense ? Coz if ur wall as only 13k hp, your defense power has to be very powerful (and even with that i just win 200 dps with 100 Dpower) So if u play with monk / warrior maybe it's easier ... BUT i just get a relic lvl 27 on tavern (matter of luck) who allowed me to farm the forest crossroad map x)


It's strange haha.

I have 930 power, 315 speed, currently level 33.  Been doing FP Hard since maybe...level 25, though I started out doing it with friends and we brought a mix of classes.  While my main is a Squire, i'd initially leveled up a Monk for soloing to provide magical damage and anti-air but...I'm really not impressed by the current Boost and Lightning.  Just got my Apprentice up to 30 and am probably good to solo Liferoot Forest Hard now, which is nice.


I did have trouble the very first time I tried FP normal at around level 19.  My gear was mediocre, I ignored resists, and I just massed cannons, true, but I'd powered through the campaign so easily that I thought it wouldn't be a problem. After adjusting from that first run, though, I've found FP Normal to be pretty easy, Betsy aside.  After reading about your troubles, it sounds like the extra characters to swap between are what have trivialized it for me.

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Yes i agree about the monk, his boost is usefull when u have at least 10 tower on in range+ large runes at lvl 40 who up your barrier life by 25%, so at low level you just have to use his anti air tower (which is really powerful)


Apprentice+squire is a really good combo on defense while monk are just good at support.

huntress is really op with a damage build :p

But it's already painful to loot a proper tower stuff for one heroes atm that leveling a squire NOOOO xD

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Maybe it's just me, but isn't there defense attack rate nodes, and some procs which boost said attack rate further? It's not like it's completely gone, more of being relegated to a secondary stat (like range) than a primary one.

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If they're not bringing back Defense Speed stats on items, they should just increase our defense speed when we level up. They could also make it so a different class has different increases in defense speed as they level up.  For example:

Squire levels up:

+8 Defense Power

+2 Defense Speed


BALLISTAS ARE COMPLETELY USELESS RIGHT NOW.


Apprentice levels up:

+2 Defense Power

+8 Defense Speed

etc....


At least this way, Gameplay won't be totally dependent on gear and make levels more relevant and not just a long ass tutorial(Diablo 3, I'm looking at you). 


p.s. By going this route they can also control tower attack rate imbalances by giving it a cap(which is what they are doing right now, but it's a little overtkill). 

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general point is towers need to scale better atm, if you put time and effort into gearing out a tower guy his towers should do well

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@Kyrn quote:

Maybe it's just me, but isn't there defense attack rate nodes, and some procs which boost said attack rate further? It's not like it's completely gone, more of being relegated to a secondary stat (like range) than a primary one.

There is BUT the general attack speed sphere's the higher tier of it give about as much DS, as the lowest of any other stat sphere, so kinda useless. And the only proc i know of is and uber that proc 100% DS when a tower get hit... which is a tad too late, since ideally you dont want your attacking towers to get hit at all (though i wonder if a trap using a charge/auras getting drained count as getting hit? anyone knows?, not high enough lvl yet to get ubers)

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@GummiBear quote:

@Kyrn quote:

Maybe it's just me, but isn't there defense attack rate nodes, and some procs which boost said attack rate further? It's not like it's completely gone, more of being relegated to a secondary stat (like range) than a primary one.

There is BUT the general attack speed sphere's the higher tier of it give about as much DS, as the lowest of any other stat sphere, so kinda useless. And the only proc i know of is and uber that proc 100% DS when a tower get hit... which is a tad too late, since ideally you dont want your attacking towers to get hit at all (though i wonder if a trap using a charge/auras getting drained count as getting hit? anyone knows?, not high enough lvl yet to get ubers)

yea at higher NM+ am sure that you're dps towers are not going to have any health with tower stats as you are dps

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@GummiBear quote:

@Kyrn quote:

Maybe it's just me, but isn't there defense attack rate nodes, and some procs which boost said attack rate further? It's not like it's completely gone, more of being relegated to a secondary stat (like range) than a primary one.

There is BUT the general attack speed sphere's the higher tier of it give about as much DS, as the lowest of any other stat sphere, so kinda useless. And the only proc i know of is and uber that proc 100% DS when a tower get hit... which is a tad too late, since ideally you dont want your attacking towers to get hit at all (though i wonder if a trap using a charge/auras getting drained count as getting hit? anyone knows?, not high enough lvl yet to get ubers)

Except that since that's the only source of DS, the small amounts it gives does improve the attack speed noticably (20% faster with all 3 nodes).And it's sort of a yes/no regarding that proc effect. Regarding the proc, I'm more of wondering whether it could justify a defense health-gear setup (since 100% DS would effectively double your tower damage).

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@Kyrn quote:


@GummiBear quote:

@Kyrn quote:

Maybe it's just me, but isn't there defense attack rate nodes, and some procs which boost said attack rate further? It's not like it's completely gone, more of being relegated to a secondary stat (like range) than a primary one.

There is BUT the general attack speed sphere's the higher tier of it give about as much DS, as the lowest of any other stat sphere, so kinda useless. And the only proc i know of is and uber that proc 100% DS when a tower get hit... which is a tad too late, since ideally you dont want your attacking towers to get hit at all (though i wonder if a trap using a charge/auras getting drained count as getting hit? anyone knows?, not high enough lvl yet to get ubers)

Except that since that's the only source of DS, the small amounts it gives does improve the attack speed noticably (20% faster with all 3 nodes).And it's sort of a yes/no regarding that proc effect. Regarding the proc, I'm more of wondering whether it could justify a defense health-gear setup (since 100% DS would effectively double your tower damage).

well one very slow shooting defences (geysers etc) are still gonna be painfully slow, and not so slow shooting defences it will barely shave anything off, making it better really to go for DP, will give a much bigger boost to your overall DPS

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@GummiBear quote:


@Kyrn quote:


@GummiBear quote:

@Kyrn quote:

Maybe it's just me, but isn't there defense attack rate nodes, and some procs which boost said attack rate further? It's not like it's completely gone, more of being relegated to a secondary stat (like range) than a primary one.

There is BUT the general attack speed sphere's the higher tier of it give about as much DS, as the lowest of any other stat sphere, so kinda useless. And the only proc i know of is and uber that proc 100% DS when a tower get hit... which is a tad too late, since ideally you dont want your attacking towers to get hit at all (though i wonder if a trap using a charge/auras getting drained count as getting hit? anyone knows?, not high enough lvl yet to get ubers)

Except that since that's the only source of DS, the small amounts it gives does improve the attack speed noticably (20% faster with all 3 nodes).And it's sort of a yes/no regarding that proc effect. Regarding the proc, I'm more of wondering whether it could justify a defense health-gear setup (since 100% DS would effectively double your tower damage).

well one very slow shooting defences (geysers etc) are still gonna be painfully slow, and not so slow shooting defences it will barely shave anything off, making it better really to go for DP, will give a much bigger boost to your overall DPS

Not when you can also get lots of DP from gear. It's a flat 25% improvement in DPS regardless of how strong your gear is.

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@Macc quote:

Good Job Trendy remove tower speed.... One of u biggest fail !

If you believe they've failed by removing tower speed, why not offer up a suggestion on how they might improve their game to make up for that "failure"? Not only would this help support your opinion, but it would also help the Trendy team come up with a solution.

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@LastLife5 quote:


@Macc quote:

Good Job Trendy remove tower speed.... One of u biggest fail !

If you believe they've failed by removing tower speed, why not offer up a suggestion on how they might improve their game to make up for that "failure"? Not only would this help support your opinion, but it would also help the Trendy team come up with a solution.

I think most people's suggestion is to re-implement Defense Speed. :P

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+1000


If Trendy do not re-implement Def Speed i just leave the game, and refund by steam. 

Game now is just boring, when i play i'm falling sleep. I've +300hours on DD2 and now i just don't want play.  

Geyzer with 8s de cooldown and 7 with sphere, combo with aura lightning is just broken, ballista is broken, boost is broken etc... 


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@NODeath quote:

+1000


If Trendy do not re-implement Def Speed i just leave the game, and refund by steam. 

Game now is just boring, when i play i'm falling sleep. I've +300hours on DD2 and now i just don't want play.  

Geyzer with 8s de cooldown and 7 with sphere, combo with aura lightning is just broken, ballista is broken, boost is broken etc... 


You fall asleep now when you actually have to do something the way, opposed to before where you could just sit AFK? *scratches head* Also pretty sure if you played 300 hours, that you are not exactly eligible for a refund from steam, you got more than your money's worth of the game for sure already.


Also boost auras while yes in a rather sad state right now, have NOTHING to do with the defence speed, and the geyser+LA combo was WAY broken before able to permastun mobs. Balista, you are probably right, that it dont function that well right now, but nothing some adjustments can't fix

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Most of you who are Po Pooing the idea of bringing DS back are doing it on the basis of the ability to kill monsters.  WE TOTALLY GET THAT WE CAN KILL MONSTERS WITHOUT DS.  WE JUST LOVE THE FAST TOWERS.  It gives a feeling of progression and skill!

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@GummiBear quote:


@NODeath quote:

+1000


If Trendy do not re-implement Def Speed i just leave the game, and refund by steam. 

Game now is just boring, when i play i'm falling sleep. I've +300hours on DD2 and now i just don't want play.  

Geyzer with 8s de cooldown and 7 with sphere, combo with aura lightning is just broken, ballista is broken, boost is broken etc... 


You fall asleep now when you actually have to do something the way, opposed to before where you could just sit AFK? *scratches head* Also pretty sure if you played 300 hours, that you are not exactly eligible for a refund from steam, you got more than your money's worth of the game for sure already.


Also boost auras while yes in a rather sad state right now, have NOTHING to do with the defence speed, and the geyser+LA combo was WAY broken before able to permastun mobs. Balista, you are probably right, that it dont function that well right now, but nothing some adjustments can't fix

Eh, I still use boost auras for the damage reduction. :v

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[[35625,users]]

You need to have the option of building so you can just sit there and do nothing. Just watch your towers do the work. I much rather have the game so the main towers kill the Mobs and the only thing i need to do is fight ogers.

I Demand my towers do the Work in a tower defense game. i don't like having to fix my towers every 5 sec. or use my Mage as a human shield Becouse my towers only fire every 2 sec and theres 20 enemy's bearing down on them.


PLEASE BRING BACK TOWER RANGE AND ATTACK SPEED TO GEAR! PLEASE! 

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well, gothraga has a point to which i half agree with, i want to be able to play tower defense like i could in dd1, i am 100% fine with repairing and upgrading my turrets/traps in the battle, but the whole dps side of the game should not be compulsory like it kind of is now, it wasnt in dd1, and I hope that is not how they plan to make dd2. But, well, lets see what happens, I think dps builds should be entirely optional like they always have been.

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@davros989 quote:

well, gothraga has a point to which i half agree with, i want to be able to play tower defense like i could in dd1, i am 100% fine with repairing and upgrading my turrets/traps in the battle, but the whole dps side of the game should not be compulsory like it kind of is now, it wasnt in dd1, and I hope that is not how they plan to make dd2. But, well, lets see what happens, I think dps builds should be entirely optional like they always have been.

:)  We know you love not having to micromanage your stuff.  We all do :)  Encourage the return of DS your towers will love you and so will your right mouse button.

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I just hate the feeling that there is no longer any build design variation anymore.  No more range, no more speed.  That means that no matter how high my stats go.  I will never be able to come up with builds that involve covering multiple lanes with a single node of defenses, unless it is a natural join.  There is nothing that encourages or enables me to explore the map for new options and setups.

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I guess you guys dont watch the devstreams on twitch. They explained why they removed defense speed. That being said, defense speed wasnt really removed from the game, you can still lower it using spheres, and geysers that are 8s become 6s for example. its still something


They said they wanted to make towers usefull in a different way using various combinations and passives. The thing is that defense speed made other stats less useful since speed > damage in many combos. To make the game more challenging they are going to put in some other idea's rather than having people spam defense speed.


Yes i felt bad at first as well, i have 300 hours myself on dd1 and I must say im getting used to the fact that defense speed is being removed. That said, I also know alot of things still need to be customized and updated because not everything is working as it should just yet.


Remember guys its PRE-ALPHA. Lots of things are going to happen, lots of things are going to change. You shouldnt complain about things that arent finished up yet.

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People know the philosophy behind the change, but practical ideas don't always have the effect you intend, which is the case here. Nobody needs speed the way it was in dd1, but in its current form the game has taken a great blow with its complete removal with both tangible and intangible repercussions.

IF they stick to keeping it out because for some reason they cant balance it with speed (no offense many other games can) then you need to find a way to put back in that feeling of power, which has gone now. Maybe the towers are doing just as much damage with just much bigger numbers (because instead of stacking speed people are just stacking tower power now, surprise), but you cant feel it and it doesn't feel good like it used to.

Also in a game like this you need consistency at endgame, which tower power and tower speed gave, now we have crit chance and %, which adds a level of randomness to your dps, unless you have a much higher consistent dps average with crits than stacking power, nobody is going to use it because nobody wants to fail a map to rng when they can avoid an rng element.

Sphere system ... sure, it has a long way to go and I give it time, but arbitrarily forcing all speed into sphere slots is going to have one outcome, those sphere slots will become mandatory for speed and at that point why have the option at all. One thing I like is having the speed as the rare secondary stats for specific turrets, harder to gear for but theres at least a chance, and then crit and % have a place.

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