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Give us back Defense Speed

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@proton8d quote:

To give an example of how bad towers are without defense speed, I was in an easy mode Betsy with a lvl 45 Monk.  He put down 5 lightning aura's and guess what, the occasional thing still made it through!!!  Towers are STUPIDLY weak now.  Defense Speed was, IMO, the ONLY thing to possibly compensate for something like that for tower based players.  Now the game is a hack and slasher's dream.  It's not about towers IMO, it's about spamming the handful of attacks you get.


 I see you're still stuck in the "spam lightning auras" mode for lanes.

Skyguards work wonders for her. 4 skyguards on the two stumps in front of her, fully upgraded kill her in a few seconds on campaign. Lanes you're going to have to use something else with your LA's.

No wonder you're having a hard time if you think you're going to win with just lightning auras.

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@Tristaris quote:


@proton8d quote:

To give an example of how bad towers are without defense speed, I was in an easy mode Betsy with a lvl 45 Monk.  He put down 5 lightning aura's and guess what, the occasional thing still made it through!!!  Towers are STUPIDLY weak now.  Defense Speed was, IMO, the ONLY thing to possibly compensate for something like that for tower based players.  Now the game is a hack and slasher's dream.  It's not about towers IMO, it's about spamming the handful of attacks you get.


 I see you're still stuck in the "spam lightning auras" mode for lanes.

Skyguards work wonders for her. 4 skyguards on the two stumps in front of her, fully upgraded kill her in a few seconds on campaign. Lanes you're going to have to use something else with your LA's.

No wonder you're having a hard time if you think you're going to win with just lightning auras.

He said 5 lightning towers. He's not just using lightning auras. He's comparing how weak and useless they are compared to other defenses. 

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Also, I'd write this thread off. Defense speed is written off by Trendy as it seems.

Watch their latest dev stream. Its as if they don't care that its gone. (because they don't)


Good game... (not)


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@iSkeptical quote:

Also, I'd write this thread off. Defense speed is written off by Trendy as it seems.

Watch their latest dev stream. Its as if they don't care that its gone. (because they don't)


Good game... (not)


I mean...this is objectively untrue even, even if you hate the change.  They very clearly care that it's gone.  They removed it, after all.  The fact of the matter is that they feel, based on their vision as designers, that the game will be in a better state without the spreadsheeting effect of Attack Speed, instead replaced with an emphasis on customization and crit.  Agree or disagree with their plan, they very clearly have a plan.

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What people seem to be saying is that at the moment it doesn't feel like we're getting powerful or badass, the way DD1 made us feel.  It feels like the game is holding back, A LOT, like all this potential but its just kind of... MEH.   Stop being so worried about balance and make us feel like HEROES, not weak little wimps struggling to get 1 or 2 more tower dmg off an upgrade.    

At the moment this game feels like I'm taking a playboy model on one year's worth of dates without every touching her

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@Quentym quote:

The devs don't get the most important thing:

the average player doesn't really care about balance. They care about the fun and reward-feeling of a game. You should never exchange fun for balance.

I don't see a good future for the playerbase numbers of this game.

What this man just said, sums up every issue I have with the direction this game is going.  I really dont' care about balance, I just want to crush harder and harder waves of mobs and get tons of mana crystals and item rewards.

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@Tenatious quote:


@Quentym quote:

The devs don't get the most important thing:

the average player doesn't really care about balance. They care about the fun and reward-feeling of a game. You should never exchange fun for balance.

I don't see a good future for the playerbase numbers of this game.

What this man just said, sums up every issue I have with the direction this game is going.  I really dont' care about balance, I just want to crush harder and harder waves of mobs and get tons of mana crystals and item rewards.

You'll play the game for a month, have everything, and then not pick the game back up because "lol that's a joke of a game."

Balance is a necessity, and to say otherwise is flat out ignorant. 

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I love these threads you can watch the DC attack players anytime they say anything against trendy its pretty funny.  Trendy MOST of us want defense speed back.. please do a vote on this :)

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I'm ok with the removal of defence speed, however, they need to offset the stupidly slow attack rates for the towers by either...

A- Making each upgrade on a tower increase its attack rate

   E.G. Current fire rate for fireblast = 2.5 seconds

           New = lvl1 - 2.5, lvl2 - 2.25, lvl 3 - 1.9, lvl4 - 1.55, lvl5 - 1.1

B- Reduce the delay between attacks (and reduce the damage scaling so the dps stays the same)

    E.G. Current fire rate for fireblast = 2.5 seconds

            New = 1.25, but damage per shot is halved.

C- Cause the tower crits to increase the tower attak rate for a short period.

    E.G. Current fire rate for fireblast = 2.5 seconds

            New(after crit) = next 2 shots fire at double speed

I say this because at the moment, most towers will fire 1-2 shots before the enemies are at the blockades, and most towers waste shots on enemies that are already going to die from the 2-3 other shots fired at it, so most of the time whether your defences hold out or not is based on whether or not the towers decide to attack different enemies. Attack rate used to offset this, as it made it so there wasn't a 2.5-5 second delay between tower attacks.

Personally I would like to see them implement A or C, as it would add to the fun factor by having visible and coherent changes between the strength of each tower level/on crits.

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Yes either defense speed per level or just re-balancing the current attack speeds of towers would make me extremely happy for the next major patch they do. 


However given we still have Alpha, Beta, and pre-GM to go through, there are still a ton of things that will change in this game and probably even a few more wipes...

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Idk how difficult it is to implement but some games with automated shooting have "smart fire" where shots aren't wasted. 

As is, my opinion is that squire/app towers are just outperformed by huntress's traps in both magic and phys lanes :o

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@Pachipachio quote:

Idk how difficult it is to implement but some games with automated shooting have "smart fire" where shots aren't wasted. 

As is, my opinion is that squire/app towers are just outperformed by huntress's traps in both magic and phys lanes :o

Remember, squire towers can have the chance to stun, as well, which can be very nice.

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@Shinnyshin quote:


@iSkeptical quote:

Also, I'd write this thread off. Defense speed is written off by Trendy as it seems.

Watch their latest dev stream. Its as if they don't care that its gone. (because they don't)


Good game... (not)


I mean...this is objectively untrue even, even if you hate the change.  They very clearly care that it's gone.  They removed it, after all.  The fact of the matter is that they feel, based on their vision as designers, that the game will be in a better state without the spreadsheeting effect of Attack Speed, instead replaced with an emphasis on customization and crit.  Agree or disagree with their plan, they very clearly have a plan.

Yeah, the dev stream makes it apparent that the patch made some big changes, but everything is (obviously) not where they want it to be yet. I get the impression that people should give them a chance to work out the kinks with this patch before writing these changes off (That goes for more than just defense speed, actually). Maybe it was a bad decision in the long run, or maybe what they're planning will work out in the long run. Either way, too early to tell. 

That said I am new to all this (just bought in when the patch dropped) so my opinion on this is a bit limited...

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You gave us crit chance/crit damage and took tower defense away from us... i dunno if that was a smart move :< Crit feels kinda useless...

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To me it was best solution i could hope for, lowering tower speed rate that is. I mean, before you could've insanely high tower speed at very late gear (meaning like 0.5s) and make towers a bit boring, leaving players with DPS build in the dust. Right now having played weekend in private and completing campaing alone, i feel like using traps and abilities actually makes difference when it comes to tough waves. 

Tho this seems to be a bit inpopular opinion :c

And item power is such a false thing.

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@Aju quote:

To me it was best solution i could hope for, lowering tower speed rate that is. I mean, before you could've insanely high tower speed at very late gear (meaning like 0.5s) and make towers a bit boring, leaving players with DPS build in the dust. Right now having played weekend in private and completing campaing alone, i feel like using traps and abilities actually makes difference when it comes to tough waves. 

Tho this seems to be a bit inpopular opinion :c

And item power is such a false thing.

Yes it is, simply because monsters are swarming in huge groups now and your towers can't keep up with that, slowly changing every target and firing in such a low attack speed that you can't do stuff without heroes :<

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I totally agree with you, but we are the only two so far. But the forums are designed for releasing frustrations it appears. Think we need a thread  about the good thing in DD2 ;)


@Aju quote:

To me it was best solution i could hope for, lowering tower speed rate that is. I mean, before you could've insanely high tower speed at very late gear (meaning like 0.5s) and make towers a bit boring, leaving players with DPS build in the dust. Right now having played weekend in private and completing campaing alone, i feel like using traps and abilities actually makes difference when it comes to tough waves. 

Tho this seems to be a bit inpopular opinion :c

And item power is such a false thing.


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Well i have a ipwrlvl of 68 with my apprentice tower, i have 2 item who doesn't have health/damage at the same time. my barrier has 20k hp and i barely survive on siphon site solo in normal free play. (and barely survived on ruin with a friend)


I just take a spell huntress to depush lane with her piercing shot coz i loose if i don't.


And for this your drop is only +3 lvl than my actual stuff, it's not worth. So yes, speed rate need to be back (crit are just usefull on late game)

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@Narutimalte quote:

Well i have a ipwrlvl of 68 with my apprentice tower, i have 2 item who doesn't have health/damage at the same time. my barrier has 20k hp and i barely survive on siphon site solo in normal free play. (and barely survived on ruin with a friend)


I just take a spell huntress to depush lane with her piercing shot coz i loose if i don't.


And for this your drop is only +3 lvl than my actual stuff, it's not worth. So yes, speed rate need to be back (crit are just usefull on late game)

Your experiences...do not match mine.  At all.  My barrier is only 13k HP and I've been having absolutely no problems with Siphon Site on normal free play--in fact, all the FP Normal maps, Betsy aside, have been an absolute cakewalk and it's the jump to Hard that took work.  And that's without a Huntress at all.


Are you taking enemy resists into account?

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@Shinnyshin quote:


@Narutimalte quote:

Well i have a ipwrlvl of 68 with my apprentice tower, i have 2 item who doesn't have health/damage at the same time. my barrier has 20k hp and i barely survive on siphon site solo in normal free play. (and barely survived on ruin with a friend)


I just take a spell huntress to depush lane with her piercing shot coz i loose if i don't.


And for this your drop is only +3 lvl than my actual stuff, it's not worth. So yes, speed rate need to be back (crit are just usefull on late game)

Your experiences...do not match mine.  At all.  My barrier is only 13k HP and I've been having absolutely no problems with Siphon Site on normal free play--in fact, all the FP Normal maps, Betsy aside, have been an absolute cakewalk and it's the jump to Hard that took work.  And that's without a Huntress at all.


Are you taking enemy resists into account?

Do you play with other defense ? Coz if ur wall as only 13k hp, your defense power has to be very powerful (and even with that i just win 200 dps with 100 Dpower) So if u play with monk / warrior maybe it's easier ... BUT i just get a relic lvl 27 on tavern (matter of luck) who allowed me to farm the forest crossroad map x)


It's strange haha.

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