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Cavespider

Give us back Defense Speed

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Not meaning to sound harsh but... REALLY!!! this is a tower defense game and you remove attack speed!! you could have modified towers to benefit less from it that was causing problems. The tower part of the game feels slow and horrid now. Please give back attack speed and make crit/crit damage off stats on gear, or better yet make high end gear roll 3 stats on top of the secondary's.

Give us a vote on this, I really do feel that this was a bad choice almost enough to make me not want to play atm, towers are in a very bad place I feel.

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They must have had an aneurism or something to remove tower att speed in a tower defense game. They removed all the fun, and it wasn´t that fun to begin with. I miss DD1....

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DD1 was nice, DD2 keeps removing what they had going in DD1, fewer towers to work with, now not having tower range or speed as primary stats. heck might as well remove tower damage and health and make it only orbs at this point.

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@Shiszka quote:

I can't solo anything like that :/

Apprentice's towers are so weak now...

The hell you talking about, apprentice is fine, I soloed the entire campaign on normal mode with him and tons other people have done it too.

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@Shiszka quote:

I can't solo anything like that :/

Apprentice's towers are so weak now...

yup, waited a few months for a few steps back in progression they wiped us for this. You can put in all the flashy stuff they want but it boils down to core mechanics, towers suck atm. So even if they fix the loot drop table unless they are going to make my towers shoot faster then towers have lost there appeal  

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TRENDY! If you want players to stick around, then make it like DD1. That´s why the majority of people are here...! Because DD1 was awesome. I would play DD1 over DD2 any day. Pets were better. Heroes felt like heroes (60 mill dmg with app and Eagle crested standard + cat) Monk auras were big. Tower animation and sound was better. And so on... just think about what I´m saying, because I think I represent a vast majority here. 

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The towers represents the work you put in and reflects your character. Slow and boring = no pride, no excitement.

Fact: Humans (men in particular) are visual creatures. Let us see the progress, see the speed with our eyes. It makes everyone feel so good :)

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@Cavespider quote:

this is a tower defense game and you remove attack speed!!

@MaJean quote:

They must have had an aneurism or something to remove tower att speed in a tower defense game.

Go check out Defense Grid.  It's a pure tower defense game, and it does not have stats at all.  Each tower has a fixed attack speed and that's it.  In fact large parts of the game's strategy hinge on choosing fast but weak or slow but strong towers as appropriate for the attacking enemies.

Or Sanctum, which is an first-person shooter / tower defense hybrid.  Again there are no stats at all, and the game plays just fine.

In other words: being able to increase tower attack speed is by no means a required part of a tower defense game.  Now use your brain and think up new strategies that don't rely on negating game mechanics.

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wouldn't mind the removal of defense speed if:


1) Some towers didn't have a crazy long recharge after shooting, but they are mostly useless now.


2) The targeting mechanism for towers wasn't so god-awful.  The fact that a tower goes through a full recharge if the target it was going to shoot at dies... that hurts, and defense speed helped to lessen the pain.

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The removal of defense attackspeed has prompted people to rely more on the heroes themselves to clear the waves rather than their towers. Though this is partially a tower defense game, it does have rpg elements, and by removing defense attackspeed, they are not only addressing the issue of tower builds being completely superior to dps builds, but also enhancing the rpg elements that are in this game. Furthermore, removing defense attackspeed has allowed players to appreciate other towers that normally aren't built more, such as the frostbite tower. Who know CC could be so useful when you can't actually deal enough dmg to kill them before they reach you?

Though ofc the removal of such an element does not have its own downsides. The elemental combinations such as the geyser + LA and others are now nearly completely useless. The only experimental tactics now consist of walling off lanes.


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Slow and boring is the main factor here. The game later feels exact the same way as early game. Faster Turrets are more awesome to watch at then turrets which attack every 2,5 or even 8 sec. 
U could as well remove t-dmg and put t-speed in, it would be somehow useless, but game would be more awesome to watch (pls don't do this, just a joke lel)
I think u should at least put that t-speed growth on lvl up where t-dmg and t-health also increases: Let's say 8 t-speed every lvl would mean 8x50 (current max lvl) around 400 t-speed more at max lvl. This wouldn't be too much or overpowered and would make most of your community very happy and also the game more awesome. <3 

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@Some random guy quote:


@Shiszka quote:

I can't solo anything like that :/

Apprentice's towers are so weak now...

The hell you talking about, apprentice is fine, I soloed the entire campaign on normal mode with him and tons other people have done it too.

Just because you can complete normal on campaign (which trendy stated would would be 800% viable) doesn't mean that towers aren't in a rough spot. After campaign, you start the grind, which is real, but for a different argument. You move to free play easy which you can do all of without much difficulty if you are iLvL 40+, but try and move to normal, even the first 2 levels on normal without being a optimized iLvL 55+ with both magic and phy dmg you're going to get pushed out by the last wave. I have that issue at the moment on squire, that i'm leveling monk to go with it. Was just going to get monk for boost and take squire to 50, but solo, it doesn't seem to be possible.

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@Carrylex quote:

Slow and boring is the main factor here. The game later feels exact the same way as early game. Faster Turrets are more awesome to watch at then turrets which attack every 2,5 or even 8 sec. 
U could as well remove t-dmg and put t-speed in, it would be somehow useless, but game would be more awesome to watch (pls don't do this, just a joke lel)
I think u should at least put that t-speed growth on lvl up where t-dmg and t-health also increases: Let's say 8 t-speed every lvl would mean 8x50 (current max lvl) around 400 t-speed more at max lvl. This wouldn't be too much or overpowered and would make most of your community very happy and also the game more awesome. <3 

Since there are now 50 levels and spheres with attack speed bonuses (though lower than before), the developers are probably afraid that once high level enough, players are going to revert back to only LA + geyser to speed through the different levels.

Though I do acknowledge your statement in that the towers appear to be 'Slow and boring'. 

Assuming that the new patch has just been released we can also assume that additional patches in the next few weeks will finish tweaking all the stats and balancing. 

Currently there are bugs nearly everywhere ranging from item and inspect tooltips to the hatching of pets. Mistakes statistic wise isn't that far off the mark. 


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Game is slow now..

drops feel boring..

I will go play something that has some excitement to it for a bit and come back later and see if they have remembered what made DD fun.

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If tower attack rate is not coming back at least have their attack rate improve with upgrade which is a factor the could easily control.

They could also have implement tower attack rate with a diminishing return which makes stacking attack rate not as effective as they would be in additive

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@cometmarcher2468 quote:

the apprentices fireball towers are comparatively weaker than the squires cannonballs in LITERALLY every way. less; health, damage, critical, and costs more DU. the only thing is they have the same range, which is not a selling point. 

lesson; stop using the mage cause he aint worth it. 

@Shiszka quote:

I can't solo anything like that :/

Apprentice's towers are so weak now...


fireball tower has aoe, when its many enemies, cannonball towers has problems :P In other words for endgame app is better, just like pre-patch :P

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I feel that completely removing defense speed was a step in the wrong direction. I could see maybe limiting it but to remove it completely is just detrimental to the games development.

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@CBlue413 quote:

1) Some towers didn't have a crazy long recharge after shooting, but they are mostly useless now.

They just require different tactics.  Enemies spawn in sort of sub-waves, with each sub-wave grouped fairly tightly together.  Put fast AoE at the start to deal with the little guys and save the slower heavy-hitters closer to the core when there are only the big ones left.  For instance geyser and explosive trap do very nearly the same DPS, but explosive can't do as much total damage to a single enemy before it has walked out of range.

2) The targeting mechanism for towers wasn't so god-awful.  The fact that a tower goes through a full recharge if the target it was going to shoot at dies... that hurts, and defense speed helped to lessen the pain.

This I can agree with.  It always annoys me when a shot is wasted, even if it doesn't cause an extra cooldown.  I wish the towers would coordinate their attacks and switch targets once enough shots have been called to make sure the target will die.

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@Carrylex quote:

Slow and boring is the main factor here. The game later feels exact the same way as early game. Faster Turrets are more awesome to watch at then turrets which attack every 2,5 or even 8 sec. 

Perhaps there could be another kind of visual scaling-up.  Asplodey things could start out as a weak puff and evolve into nuke-like splendour as stats increase.

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