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Spheres, and thoughts?


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In its current incarnation, and into the next build, the one thing I'm concerned with is how there is little to no real customization really. Whatever yields the most damage, is what the majority will use exclusively. 

Will spheres that aren't a bonus to a combat stat, be good enough to be worth using? Depending on the class, or what I was doing, it was very obvious choices of what to pick and it would be nice to see something different.

Furthermore, I am curious what the thoughts were on rare spheres that add a bit more customization to how you wanted to play. Keep things in line obviously and balanced, but make things more interesting?

Any time a game gives you the illusion of choice, you obviously take what is going to give you the most bang for your buck anyway and it would be nice to see more fun added to it other than "Congratulations, you reached level 50, you can now pick your next sphere, which would you prefer? 2% more damage, or 2% more critical hit chance?" 

It's just very boring, and curious of others thoughts?

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It boils down to 1 thing for builders.

If they keep Defense Speed Spheres in the game they will be the best hands down as there wont be another reliable way to get your towers faster.

For other styles of play there are options I believe (I mean there are options now) but for builders I always found it very stagnate

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Yeah agreed with that. I'd just personally like to see variety, make things do unique stuff, much like Ubers do, but extend it to other spheres as well.

Even make them drop off mobs, rarely of course, but a chance, just some sort of variety! lol

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One idea is more focused non-uber spheres, such as those that already target specific towers but expand that to the smaller spheres.   For example,  a small sphere could add 2% damage over time to the flame burst tower.

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Using the perceived best thing is what the majority of the players will always do.  Doesn't matter if it's better by just a few percent, they'll look it up in a guide and use it.  The lazy ones will not look it up themselves but ask in chat "hey guise, whats the best spec for <insertclasshere>".

I just hope Trendy can create some incentives for variety.  Perhaps dailies that require the use of certain defenses, or the lessening of efficiency if too many of the same defense are placed in close proximity to each other.

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The resistance lanes are a good start to introduce some build diversity, I would like to see more but reducing the effectiveness of grouped towers feels like a bad idea. 


I think the main problem with spheres is it forces secondary stats to compete with primary stats. Removing primary start spheres would encourage more targeted character builds, especially if more secondary stats from items were available as spheres. 

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@tdb quote:

Using the perceived best thing is what the majority of the players will always do.  Doesn't matter if it's better by just a few percent, they'll look it up in a guide and use it.  The lazy ones will not look it up themselves but ask in chat "hey guise, whats the best spec for <insertclasshere>".

I just hope Trendy can create some incentives for variety.  Perhaps dailies that require the use of certain defenses, or the lessening of efficiency if too many of the same defense are placed in close proximity to each other.

This thread basically sounds like "hey Trendy, force everyone to play how I like to play"... 

I was playing with Ubara_Tutu the other night. We did some runs with op towers, probably a pretty common build, it was pretty easy. We did another with my app towers and his boost with serenity. We had to actually dps and block with squires to win and even rebuild a wave or 2. It was a lot of fun ( is that not what you all want?) The diversity is there. Just because something IS better doesn't mean you have to use it. Forcing ("encouraging") someone not to use it is another story.

They tried to combat some of this in DDE and it did not work out. It's beyond me why some get so wrapped up in how other people play the game. The only way you can change that is make one hero with one tower and that won't happen.

Other than that, you may as well get use to people using the best. Remember, just because everyone is doing it, doesn't mean you have to do it. Or like your mom has to tell you, if your friend jumps off a bridge are you going to jump too?

Let's penalize people who don't play like me... is a terrible idea. But, this isn't something that hasn't been debated time and time again.

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Did you even read the posts? It's asking for variety and not one single bit of what you just mentioned.

I can go into a game and use one tower per lane,  and call that variety but it's garbage and un-fun. 

I'm not asking for them to make things OP and just give more damage and more damage, I simply think more variety in play-styles is a good thing. How in the hell was this thread perceived as what you just mentioned? 

Mind officially boggled. 

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Typically having a diminishing returns aspect of stats in games requires more thought/experimentation than the average player is willing to commit time to. Like some others have said, most players just end up reading a guide on where the stat break points are and follow it without thinking. Same goes for "reforging," to use one game's term, where you can manually change stats on items from what they dropped as, to what you want. 

Since the stats themselves will only really pose a min/max challenge to players for a few weeks after any release before figured out, I think the focus should be on secondary stat/affixes. By this I mean things like "chance on hit to stun", "chance on hit to increase attack speed by X for Y seconds", "chance on hit to cause explosion doing X amount of fire damage in a small radius", etc. These kinds of effects make the game more fun, and make finding gear much more exciting than a 10 stat increase, at least in my opinion.

Since those kinds of effects aren't shackled by base stats, you can really go pretty deep with effects before the well runs dry on ideas. Balancing obviously needs to be brought up, as the %proc chance and duration on any of these types of effects could just add too much RnG for a consistent experience. That said, I think some RnG flavor could be healthy for the game. 

In terms of spheres, I think the idea presented here of making dailies for different spheres is a great one. In addition to this, you could even have certain spheres better on certain maps, and for newer players, highlight them as 'recommended' at the map level. Maybe on some maps with tighter choke points, you want some 'on proc AoE' spheres, whereas on maps where you have a tower cluster in every lane, you really just want some attack speed.

Finally, I do think they need to make certain spheres drop from enemies, versus being purchasable (at least for the really good ones). I consider spheres to be an integral part of building up your character's ability to progress, like any other item i get from drops, and throwing money at it feels too easy. This makes spheres a guarantee, versus something I have to work on. Making baseline spheres available for purchase makes sense to get you going, but rarer spheres should be harder to acquire. Imagine a world where you can get mythic uber spheres to drop, and maybe even upgrade them! 

Chance on hit to summon an ogre to defend the nearest core for 15sec. Can only control one Ogre at any time... 

Chance on hit to buff the attack speed of all turrets within X yards by 30% for 5 seconds. Can only occur once every 30 seconds...

[Walls] After taking X damage, repair bot will be summoned, repairing all defenses within X yards, consuming no mana...

Again, things like this would have to be balanced, but fun effects like this to me make spheres way more fun, and things to swap out and try different combinations of, versus just core stats you change one time then ignore. 






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[[90079,users]]  -  Love the feedback, and exactly what I was shooting for in my original post. 

Thanks for the read! I'd love to see things like that done. Balance would probably be harder, though, but if it were done right, there could be tons of variety, and things  you could do depending on your deck setup and who you are playing with

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@Tristaris quote:

Did you even read the posts? It's asking for variety and not one single bit of what you just mentioned.

I can go into a game and use one tower per lane,  and call that variety but it's garbage and un-fun. 

I'm not asking for them to make things OP and just give more damage and more damage, I simply think more variety in play-styles is a good thing. How in the hell was this thread perceived as what you just mentioned? 

Mind officially boggled. 

Yes, I did read it! I didn't quote you did I?

Maybe you should read it a few more times, you'll get it eventually I'm sure.


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@Omm quote:

This thread basically sounds like "hey Trendy, force everyone to play how I like to play"... 

In fact I'd like something to incentivize myself to try different builds.  At the moment, pretty much the same build works against all enemies on all maps, which is a bit boring.  And some defenses just don't seem useful.

The daily for using a particular tower can be just one option.  It's easy enough to make sure that both options for the day aren't the same kind.

Perhaps lowering the efficiency of nearby similar towers as a global rule is a bit much, but how about adding an option that gives a random rule or two for a map, perhaps in exchange for slightly more loot?  There's already chrome enemies that are immune to stuns, but I'm not sure if that exists outside of that one incursion map.

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@tdb quote:


@Omm quote:

This thread basically sounds like "hey Trendy, force everyone to play how I like to play"... 

In fact I'd like something to incentivize myself to try different builds.  At the moment, pretty much the same build works against all enemies on all maps, which is a bit boring.  And some defenses just don't seem useful.

The daily for using a particular tower can be just one option.  It's easy enough to make sure that both options for the day aren't the same kind.

Perhaps lowering the efficiency of nearby similar towers as a global rule is a bit much, but how about adding an option that gives a random rule or two for a map, perhaps in exchange for slightly more loot?  There's already chrome enemies that are immune to stuns, but I'm not sure if that exists outside of that one incursion map.

I do really like the idea of daily challenges that require certain builds, characters, etc... There can be a lot of potential in the daily challenges.

I have always been the type to try different builds, gear and things like that for the challenge, no matter what works and what doesn't. I always seem to find a lot of variety. But I guess I can't expect other people to do the same either. 

You're absolutely right that most people will use the common builds, most powerful items... But, there is way more variety than some people realize. It takes a lot of trial and error to find new builds with many different towers and some people don't bother doing that either.

I'm happy as long as we all have options to play as we wish. Because there are times I do just want to sit back and easily farm. Other times I want to use a crazy build that barely holds up and get out with my sword and slash and hack everything to death.

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