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Caimen0

Current State of Moonbase Rewards

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I am all for stat progression, as long as it is generally harder to get. As many of you like to point out, the current state of the game is doable with 2-3k stats, but gear allows for 6-7k+ in stats, creating an imbalance in difficulty and gear. If we want gear to progress even farther, and have that gear all come from a single map, then it needs to be very difficult. The rewards as they are, are considerably stronger than current top-tier weapons, no doubt, and im fine with it staying that way. As long as the map becomes a real challenge, for high-tier players as well.

I wouldn't mind seeing this map become what they envisioned lab assault was going to be like, were it would almost be necessary to have a group of active players working together to just barely survive. Like having ogres that needed to be tanked down by active dps heroes because there would just be no way for defenses to hold them off, regardless of gear. There is no end boss, so the challenge needs to come from somewhere else than a beefy sponge absorbing all the damage we deal. 

I would love to see this map turn into something challenging, where you need roles and an adequate team of heroes to complete it. Give it a level requirement of 110, meaning it would be impossible for one person with lvl 100s to do it. 

Something i really liked when i was first introduced to WW, was the immediate difficulty spike as opposed to Kings Game. The people i ran with were by no means insanely geared, and neither was I. We each had our heroes around the upper 3ks, nearing 4k stats, but it was something that required all of us to be active and upgrading, repairing and focusing on to be able to complete. The boss itself, felt like an entire map, as we would need two dpsers, one booster monk, and a repairman to insure success, but it was fun, and when we got coal it felt deserving for the effort we put in. I would just really love to relive that experience through this map.

 tl;dr - Basically, keep the rewards strong, and make the map extremely hard XD

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@Sandboxx quote:

tl;dr - Basically, keep the rewards strong, and make the map extremely hard XD

I do not agree, I would rather nerf the treadmill and make it the newbie's diamond (see curtis' post) than making the map harder.
I think it could be a really great way for newbies to get a kind of weaker diamond (but as usefull), the map is easy for sure and so it's possible for newbies to farm ToT and get a better gear and benefits from the decent builder stats + speed boost and access harder content such as ToL. There are a some maps being reworked by their makers because of the patch (see Community Development - Testing and Feedback), and some maps that have been made difficult (Mines of Moria Savage). Harder content will come, but we should stop focusing that much on ourselves.

A lot of newbies who start DD today are lost and often quit the game after 200 hours before even reaching 2k stats, they have no idea what they should do to get good gear (better than the one they currently have). Of course, it is easy to get some decent gear and reach 2k, but only when you know how to do it, only when you are aware of steam groups/guides, and only when you know what/where to search. But without joining a steam group getting a dps armor with resist + a BF Drill to get started with lab assault is a lot harder and they will try to leech and learn from some kind players they might eventually meet (note: most of us are playing in private games to help/farm right? ), or quit (and some weaklings choose to cheat).

Once they have passed the 2k bar, there is an other problem they will encounter, running difficult map with 2k is way harder than with 4k, that's a fact, and they will probably not have 2k stats with a diamond pet on, so no speed boost ( = huge waste of time) and this can be fatal on huge maps. If they could have access to a pseudo-diamond it would be really great for them.

Let Moonbase for Newbies even if a lot of us were waiting for this map for long, we will have other maps for harder content and better rewards. And if you really want such map, just speak with map makers, give them idea, test their map, make suggestions.


Edit: I agree with harry, getting 88 fish in a bowl (so they could have some trade value) for one ToT, OR getting the ToT if the score is equivalent or superior to 42.

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@curtisgk quote:

Does anyone else have an issue where a lot of the drops are 1/100?

yup, before I switched back to normal DD, multiples items were 100^ with similars stats. 

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@Vetokend quote:

Indeed, the work required for a diamond is way more than the new treadmills.

Then again, the gear it took me months to acquire in Black Temple (old WoW expansion raid) is completely obsolete today. Out with the old, in with the new.  Not a perfect analogy, granted.  Still, this type of replacement mechanism is pretty commonplace in games with stat progression.

But is this too much too fast?  Maybe you're right on that point, I'm not really sure myself.  I trust those of you who are actively testing/playing this will make the right call as a community.

To be honest, this one item doesn't really concern me.  I'm more concerned about the mentality of this type of thing in general.  I really hope everybody (particularly in community development) agrees with the notion that stats should gradually increase as newer and harder content comes out.  That's all I'm really trying to get across.

The stat progression in this game is so much fun and so addicting, it would be a shame to let it go stagnant, now that regular updates can be a thing again.

I do understand stat whoring, hell hands up if you are a stat whore        o/

I am also aware of power creep. Someone once posted an interesting animated explanation that I enjoyed on the forum.

If we are edging stats up then maybe something on the accessories rather than a tower pet that seems to beat all other tower pets, many of which require hours to get, some tens of hours.

I always like the idea of different rather than simply bigger numbers. Like the pet rock. Good stats but with a compromise. So maybe a tower pet that can teleport you (rather than run speed) or 2 higher cap and 2 lower cap tower stats or 3 positive one negative.


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i have to agree with mkjo. 

I dont want to see this turn into a moonbase is the only map worth farming situation but rather another map worth farming. i hate when i am forced into running just one map for a viable reward. currently the only place i have a problem with this is for accs as lab assault will give you much better accs than what is possible from anywhere else in the game. I know some people like to run this map but i also know many do not like to. I think that people should have a second or third map that they are able to farm for a specific item slot (sword armor accs staff etc.) 

sure moonbase is the new map but if its the only map ever worth farming then it is going to get old really fast. I would rather see the viable content being expanded on instead of being reduced to one map and one challenge (lab assault ) 

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We want pictures of the stats of the Moonbase rewards. It's in the patch notes I believe. There's a form. Filling it out will really help.

We would appreciate if folks could send us as many individual examples as possible so that we can get, both an idea of the current stat drops (we've changed them since the Workshop release) and whether or not folks are happy with them or if they want to make any comments about these items to us.

I would expect the community development team to make a good amount of submissions and encourage folks outside of the group to contribute too.


The more we get the better. :)


@rcdm462 quote:


@Dani quote:

Guys, posting this here doesn't help.

We need everything put through this reporting form.

Please submit your Moonbase reward screenshots on the form and no where else.

Thanks!

do u guys need pics from us of all drops?  maybe they are asking us to send all pics of rewards to them to help with the item balancing.


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@harry4550 quote:

i have to agree with mkjo. 

I dont want to see this turn into a moonbase is the only map worth farming situation but rather another map worth farming. i hate when i am forced into running just one map for a viable reward. currently the only place i have a problem with this is for accs as lab assault will give you much better accs than what is possible from anywhere else in the game. I know some people like to run this map but i also know many do not like to. I think that people should have a second or third map that they are able to farm for a specific item slot (sword armor accs staff etc.) 

sure moonbase is the new map but if its the only map ever worth farming then it is going to get old really fast. I would rather see the viable content being expanded on instead of being reduced to one map and one challenge (lab assault ) 

I have to say I agree completely with this. On that note, What is the swing speed of Quietus? If it is equal to/ faster than Espear, I really think it ought to be brought in line with Espear in some way, because as it stands it has both better hero stats and dmg/^. I don't think the Monk Wrench has quite the damage output to compete with it either.

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Quietus has faster swing speed than e spear.

cca 200 quietus = 300 e spear.

Dynast is ok it's worse than gladius.

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So i know a lot of people, including myself, have posted about their ideas for moonbase rewards, but do we actually get a say in this? I know trendy said we would have a substantial amount of push in the patches to come, but based on their moonbase rewards form, it seems like they already have a goal in mind and are just making sure it has been met.

Also, i like the accessory idea that was brought up, and im all for a larger variety of maps rewarding end game loot :)

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I would assume we have a very substantial role in the rewards as long as we give good feedback. The more feedback we give, the more Trendy will know about our opinion of the rewards as long as we send them all of our rewards and views on the rewards. I doubt they'd ignore what we say considering how much faith they're giving to the community at this point.


Edit: As far as their expectation for Moonbase rewards, I would believe they have a set point they're expecting since it is their game, most likely higher than current rewards to allow for more stat progression. At the same time, I doubt they would go against the belief of the community. The few runs I have done have netted me insanely broken rewards, both good and bad. I'd hope they listen to our feedback. I plan to wait until I have a few dozen rewards until I am ready to give my feedback. Since they are handing off control quite a bit to the community, I bet they'd put quite a bit of faith in us.

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Anyone have numbers on the rewards?  I have heard people talk about the monk weapon being OP.  Although the numbers someone gave me for NM showed that the increase in DPS was fairly small that you wouldnt notice a difference.

I know the hyper rifle has great dps but it doesnt pierce like a blaster so mob damage is probably similar still.

So currently they dont seem to be breaking the game, at least end game.

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I don't know about the rarity of ++ hyper rifles, but I got one my first run that does 75% the damage of a rainmaker. I feel like this might be good progression towards the rainmaker but does quite a bit more than the current blaster rifles. My next two runs got 3 ult rifles that were good for stat progression I would say works perfectly. The rest of the items I got were 1/100 which seems to be broken.


Personally, I'd recommend lowering hyper rifles by about 5% damage and fixing the 1/100 rifles.

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Well I have a 365^ Quietus so, as soon as I get some mana, I can let you know how that works out

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Well, I plan to spend most of this week testing the rewards myself. I probably will wait as well to post my rewards to trendy as i want to get a good read on what is a common reward and what is slightly rarer.


When your group makes you do the dance 

ლ(ಠ_ಠლ) ... ┏(・o・)┛♪┗ (・o・) ┓

ayzmuV1.gif

Gotta work it for that ToT

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@oliwaltony quote:


@mkjo quote:


@curtisgk quote:

I've said it in group chat, I'll say it again. Any Treadmill on a Treadmill should be nerfed to be able to cap 600 in all tower stats and have the boost speed of a diamond so it's nothing more than a nice kobold. It should have roughly a 1/20 chance of capping tower stats per person so it takes roughly 5 runs of 4 people to get a capping. tower with nice speed. This gives players an incentive to do Moonbase over Tavern Defense or WW (which is a horrid map with horrid chances of a pskele). 

+1 agreed

88 coal (22 WW runs) for ONE diamond vs 25 minutes for 4 ToT? That is not gradual stat increase (that I am not persuaded we need anyway) that is obviating the map, the diamond and Skellies etc

Maybe get 1 *insert item* per run and then 88 of them gets you a ToT

I would be okay with this. This is a good idea in my opinion. 

Well the we dont always have to base it off 88 of some item to get new pets, diamonds are 88 coal but for ToT it doesnt have to be the same as diamonds. For example ToT could be something like 50 *insert Items* or if they end up being the better item from diamonds it could be like 100-120 *insert Items* instead of being 88, I just feel as though 88 is coals special number to becoming a diamond and we dont need to base all out newest pets off of them.

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Damage wise, all weapons except for the Dynast are way to strong. Stats wise all weapons are amazingly good, also the chances for them to rull ult seems also. These items from moonbase definitely need some tuning, keep in mind that while judging moonbase is an incredibly easy map.


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I've done some testing, and discovered that the Fusion Rift does scale horribly with hero damage. I wasn't able to break 25 million with a 106k staff, a number that is achievable by a 60k classic's (to my knowledge.) This does not, however, forgive the fact that the damage can spawn insanely high (mine started at 18k) and can reach more than 200k with 500+ upgrades on an ult++.

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I think the fusion should just be reset to standard damage scaling and given a comparable dmg/^ number. As it is it's rather annoying to try and compare the damage output of the Fusion to any other staff.

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Yay for double posting

OP has been updated with more accurate dmg/^ numbers and Fusion scalings.

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